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Britannica
Caldari
Republic of Ghost
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:46:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Britannica on 18/05/2008 11:47:00
there has been alot of debate about who has killed the most civilians over the course of interstellar travel so I'm giving a few facts on all 4 empires on this matter. in alphabetical order:
amarrian empire - millions of minmatar during the initial invasion, millions more due to slave trade and rebellion supression and many more during the minmatar war of freedom
Caldari state - 500,000+ at Nouvelle Rouvenor, perhaps 10,000 - 15,000 at huromont. very few civilian targets selected during the war itself
Gallente Federation - malkalen 400,000+. bombing cities on Caldari prime at the start of the war killing millions of civilians. few civilian targets selected for the rest of the war
 Quote:
Following the attack on Nouvelle Rouvenor an extreme right-wing government grabbed the power reigns in the Gallente Federation and advocated a harsh response: bombing Caldari Prime and sending in troops to take control of the planet. Those within the Federation believing that peace talks should be initiated instead of an invasion didnĘt dare speak up for fear of being branded cowards or, worse, traitors; the Gallente war machine grinded into gear.
Minmatar republic - estimates of several hundred thousand at least during the war for freedom, perhaps a few million more due to the freedom fighters still operating
and so in first place with most civilians killed is the amarr, in second are the gallente, in thrid place the minmatar and trailing far behind are the caldari
from this I can see some caldari speaking out and saying the state still has to get even by a few dozen bombed gallente cities
so from history it would appear the gallente are almost as bloodthirsty as the amarr and much more willing to slaughter unarmed people than the minmatar.
having been in space trading with hundreds of people including many gallente I have learned many of each race have little interest in war with the other empires. there are few now who remeber any part of the wars between the empires. what we are left with are politicians spinning facts.
and havent serpentis been know to hijack gallente super capitals on a fairly regular basis these days. I remember a report about an attempt to steal a nyx, I cant remember if that as successful or the plot foiled
Curiosity is not the only thing that can kill a cat, stupidity will do the job just as quick |
Britannica
Caldari
Republic of Ghost
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 11:46:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Britannica on 18/05/2008 11:47:00
there has been alot of debate about who has killed the most civilians over the course of interstellar travel so I'm giving a few facts on all 4 empires on this matter. in alphabetical order:
amarrian empire - millions of minmatar during the initial invasion, millions more due to slave trade and rebellion supression and many more during the minmatar war of freedom
Caldari state - 500,000+ at Nouvelle Rouvenor, perhaps 10,000 - 15,000 at huromont. very few civilian targets selected during the war itself
Gallente Federation - malkalen 400,000+. bombing cities on Caldari prime at the start of the war killing millions of civilians. few civilian targets selected for the rest of the war
Quote:
Following the attack on Nouvelle Rouvenor an extreme right-wing government grabbed the power reigns in the Gallente Federation and advocated a harsh response: bombing Caldari Prime and sending in troops to take control of the planet. Those within the Federation believing that peace talks should be initiated instead of an invasion didnĘt dare speak up for fear of being branded cowards or, worse, traitors; the Gallente war machine grinded into gear.
Minmatar republic - estimates of several hundred thousand at least during the war for freedom, perhaps a few million more due to the freedom fighters still operating
and so in first place with most civilians killed is the amarr, in second are the gallente, in thrid place the minmatar and trailing far behind are the caldari
from this I can see some caldari speaking out and saying the state still has to get even by a few dozen bombed gallente cities
so from history it would appear the gallente are almost as bloodthirsty as the amarr and much more willing to slaughter unarmed people than the minmatar.
having been in space trading with hundreds of people including many gallente I have learned many of each race have little interest in war with the other empires. there are few now who remeber any part of the wars between the empires. what we are left with are politicians spinning facts.
and havent serpentis been know to hijack gallente super capitals on a fairly regular basis these days. I remember a report about an attempt to steal a nyx, I cant remember if that as successful or the plot foiled
Curiosity is not the only thing that can kill a cat, stupidity will do the job just as quick |
Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 18:36:00 -
[3]
Well put.
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Thorek Ironbrow
Caldari
Ironbrow Industries Co.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 18:58:00 -
[4]
Wow I never realised how bad Democracy makes you.
_____________________________
The Jove will return... |
DeadRow
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.18 19:31:00 -
[5]
Errm, actually all the Empires are accountable for the Billions there were probably killed during the Nation steamrolling. So statistically speaking they are all as bad as each other, go figure.
Quote:
Iz in ur base, implanting ur dudes
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Sylvain Lemieux
Opureia
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:46:00 -
[6]
I fail to see the point you are attempting to make here.
You make a selection of unverified claims with no supporting evidence on the 'number' (parentheses due to actually no real numbers being given) of people killed by each nation and appear to be ranking them according to these suppositions.
Lets say, hypothetically (and simplistically), a 'good' nation was assaulted by an 'evil' force and succesfully defended the attack, killing many thousands of 'evil' people, would you then criticise the 'good' nation becaue statistically it had killed more? There is a logical step here you fail to address.
Please have the good grace in future to, first of all, give evidence for any hypothesis you are presenting and, second of all, refrain from perpetuating propaganda based on a dubious moral yardstick.
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Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: DeadRow
Errm, actually all the Empires are accountable for the Billions there were probably killed during the Nation steamrolling. So statistically speaking they are all as bad as each other, go figure.
That was mercy!
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Khan Rodak
Amarr
Manu Dei
Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:10:00 -
[8]
The lives we took we're not from people.
They were - in most cases - property, and in others just animals.
In any case, none of the above numbers refering to us can be related to human lives.
New Seminarium open
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Britannica
Caldari
Republic of Ghost
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sylvain Lemieux
I fail to see the point you are attempting to make here.
You make a selection of unverified claims with no supporting evidence on the 'number' (parentheses due to actually no real numbers being given) of people killed by each nation and appear to be ranking them according to these suppositions.
Lets say, hypothetically (and simplistically), a 'good' nation was assaulted by an 'evil' force and succesfully defended the attack, killing many thousands of 'evil' people, would you then criticise the 'good' nation becaue statistically it had killed more? There is a logical step here you fail to address.
Please have the good grace in future to, first of all, give evidence for any hypothesis you are presenting and, second of all, refrain from perpetuating propaganda based on a dubious moral yardstick.
after a number of claims about the federation being the nation of light that is inocent of the slaughter of civilians until malkalen I felt it was important to point out to all who will listen that the Gallente race has commited attrocities greater than even the supposedly "barbaric" minmatar.
I could not post accurate numbers as it is near impossible to obtain accurate numbers for events such as the many Amarrian wars during their reclamation, or the orbital bombardment of the cites of Caldari prime.
the Caldari state does have its faults, I wont deny that, but these people claiming the federation is the only bastion of good will and light need to remember the modern Gallente federation is built upon the graves of many millions of civillians who died on that day when the gallente people sat back as their government ordered the fleet to bombard the cities of Caldari Prime
I am attempting to say to those gallente calling for the extermination of a entire race to remember the event that lead to the Caldari/Gallente war, remember the day the Gallente race choose to forsake the ideals of freedom and justice and learn from history.
Curiosity is not the only thing that can kill a cat, stupidity will do the job just as quick |
Fox Vulcan
LYF Naval Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.21 23:24:00 -
[10]
Lots of fancy words I dont quite get, but I think I agree with the main jist of it...
Whats in the past is in the past, so lets let it lie. I doubt that any of our nations are free of some sort of guilt. Everyone has their prejudices too, and I think, personally, those should be dropped as well, if possible.
It doesnt matter if its an 'eye for an eye'. If we follow that ideal, we'll all end up blind. |
Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.22 00:58:00 -
[11]
Well, some of us have easier access to new eyes than others, so I'm not sure that old phrase has as much use anymore. Regardless, I have a few eyes I plan on gouging before I am done, as do many others. |
Hooch Flux
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Posted - 2008.05.22 08:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Karanth
I have a few eyes I plan on gouging before I am done, as do many others.
Careful, you might break a nail!
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Eleana Tomelac
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.05.22 12:27:00 -
[13]
You're pushing this forward to raise the tensions...
You're just asking for more blood...
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Central Research Nexus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 13:53:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 22/05/2008 13:55:14
Somehow, I think there are many more civilian casualties on all sides than those reported in the record of major historical events. For every Rouvenor and Caldari Prime, there are many lesser known and deemed unimportant worlds that never made it into the detail-lacking books. We'll never truly know how many each side have killed, unless we find some Jovian time machine and go look ourselves.
But, since I like a good Galnet fight as much as anyone else, I already know you're going to ignore the above paragraph, and since our input doesn't change the governmental decisions at all, at least we aren't moving all Caldari expatriates into 'quarantine camps' like the Hero of the State Heth is doing to the Gallente. Whether there is precedent for either side or not? Who knows? Who cares at this point? What matters is that it is happening now.
----
WTB Armor Nerf Hardener II, 10^100 isk OBO |
Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:05:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Karanth on 22/05/2008 14:05:51
When I hear "quarantine camp," my brain replaces those words with "need to make Heth die violently."
I wonder, does he keep his clones as close as Otro did?
EDIT: Spelling.
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Astarte Nosferatu
Canes Pugnaces
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:02:00 -
[16]
You forget the Sani Sabik who killed millions during the Mabnen I attack and the hundreds of thousands that died due to acts of piracy.
If you think of it, the Empires aren't much better than the Pirate Factions.
People must really like me, everytime I post people ask my ASL. |
Britannica
Republic of Ghost
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Karanth
Edited by: Karanth on 22/05/2008 14:05:51
When I hear "quarantine camp," my brain replaces those words with "need to make Heth die violently."
I wonder, does he keep his clones as close as Otro did?
EDIT: Spelling.
while I would not go as far as killing I do feel heth may be a bad thing for the future of the state. he strikes me as to eager to persue his own glory than help the state survive
Curiosity is not the only thing that can kill a cat, stupidity will do the job just as quick |
Creed Richards
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:07:00 -
[18]
Keep in the mind that the government that committed the atrocity of bombing Caldari Prime was a ultra-right wing fascist government that was short lived and in no way reflects the attitude and modus operandi of all government since then, based on the historical records we have.
While that incident was regrettable, the culpability reseted on a government that no longer exists. The Malaken (sp?) incident, based on the information we have, is the actions of a single mad man, and we should take the Federation's apology and promise to provide aid seriously until proven otherwise.
Finally, the current actions and statements of Heth, well I have only one thing to say about that:
Eye for an Eye and the world is half blind.
God Bless
Creed Richards
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