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Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2008.05.18 12:49:00 -
[1]
I can't seem to hit things! Could someone help me out as to why. Here's some info and skills:
Level 3 Mission first enemies are: http://eveinfo.com/npcship/23957/eve-online-thukker-mercenary-eliminator.html
Enemies at 20-23km range when warping in.
My guns optimal range is about 60km, at 16km I couldn't hit a thing and they were all over me. (used Heavy Beam I, ammo Infrared.
Info on my gunnery skills trained:
Gunnery Rank 5
Large Energy Turret: 1
Medium Engergy Turret: 3
Small Energy Turret: 3
Motion Prediction: 2
Rapid Firing: 2
Sharpshooter: 2
Trajectory Analysis: 1
Taking the ship shown in the link as an example, what should I be training so I can hit this ship when it's reasonable close (like under 15km).
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Tzar'rim
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.18 12:58:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 18/05/2008 13:00:18
First of all a Heavy beam laser is a cruiser class turret so I'm guessing you mean the dual heavy beam laser, which is a BS class turret. You can not fly a BS without having the proper support skills (close to) maxed, in this case motion prediction. Apart from that you really want to use a webber to slow the target down, use a GOOD webber as well.
So it's a combination of crappy skills, targets being too small for the gun, target speed/tracking being a problem and you not investing in tracking enhancing stuff.
let your drones worry about the short range stuff if at all possible, if needed add a tracking computer/enchancer to increase your chance to hit.
- edit -
P.S.; with skills like that, stop rushing into the biggest ships as fast as you can cause you're completely useless with them.
Looking for a corp again |
Ghan Tylous
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Posted - 2008.05.18 12:59:00 -
[3]
You need to work more on your Gunneryskils. Also you should try the tracking guide in the Player Guide. Large Energy Turret skills is only for BS size laserturrets. You have already listed some gunnery support skills that you should work on.
Also Infrared crystals are for longrange, so the damageoutput from your Heavy Beams are low.
- Motion Prdiction
- Trajectory Analysis
- Rapid Firing
- Sharp Shooter
- Controlled Bursts (So you use less cap when firing)
Get these supportskills to 4. Then max out your Medium Energy Turret skill so you can use T2 turrets.
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It have always fallen to a few to sacrifice for the good of many
 Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed.
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Asestorian
Domination.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:00:00 -
[4]
It's to do with tracking, which is helpfully explained by the tracking guide.
You're probably going to want to train Motion Prediction higher if you are struggling to hit things. Also, what ship are you using and what is your set-up on it? It's generally a good idea to have an afterburner fitted and start moving away from the enemies at the same time to help a bit with tracking as well.
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Quote:
Welcome to EVE, a PvP game where people are - shockingly - allowed to PvP as much as they like.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:02:00 -
[5]
Motion Prediction 3/4/5
Trajectory Analysis 4 -> Tracking Computer II + Tracking Speed script (or leave at 1 and use a named TC+ TSscript)
Weapon Upgrades 4 -> Tracking Enhancer II
Energy Weapon Rigging 1++ -> Energy Metastasis Adjuster I rig
Cybernetics 1/3 -> 'Gunslinger' AX-0/1/2 implant (1/3/5% turret tracking)
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet)
Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:02:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 18/05/2008 13:04:06
Sorry the turrets were Mega Beam Laser I with Infrared.
Ship: Apocalypse.
7x Mega Beam I
4x Cap Recharge II
2x LAR
4x hardeners
1x capactiy power relay
1x nano pumo and 2x CCC
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Tzar'rim
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Sorry the turrets were Mega Beam Laser I with Infrared.
Megabeams, those have even worse tracking. use smaller guns, yes they get less range but you'll hit a lot better.
Looking for a corp again |
Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:08:00 -
[8]
Ok so Level 3 missions in a battleship with mega pulse turrets are a no go?
Unless I have higher skills in motion prediction and trajectory analysis and or tracking enhancers?
Or still not all and just use the mega pulse for level 4s?
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Asestorian
Domination.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 18/05/2008 13:04:06
Sorry the turrets were Mega Beam Laser I with Infrared.
Ship: Apocalypse.
I'd say this is pretty much the problem. Level 3 missions are far more suited to Battlecruisers than Battleships. Personally I'd recommend using a Harbinger instead, but if you would prefer to keep your Apocalypse you could always just refit the guns to medium sized weapons, like a Heavy Beam Laser. It won't be as efficient though. With your skills you're not likely to have much success sticking to the larger weapons though I'm afraid.
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Quote:
Welcome to EVE, a PvP game where people are - shockingly - allowed to PvP as much as they like.
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Ghan Tylous
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:12:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ghan Tylous on 18/05/2008 13:12:33
Well you could consider to use a Harbinger for lvl 3s. Lvl 3's consist most of cruisers, frigates and a few battlecruisers.
Edit: Beaten to it by the above guy 
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It have always fallen to a few to sacrifice for the good of many
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed.
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Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:18:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 18/05/2008 13:19:55
Alright a Harbinger.
But let's say this was PVP, if a ship of the size I linked to above came after me in my apoc (fitted with mega pulse)....I wouldn't be able to hit it? (Unless I'm at level 4+ in tracking, trajectory etc?) Is that correct?
EDIT: Also what about using the mega pulse with a crystal that does a -% on the range? Getting the optimal range down to 30km or so.
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Asestorian
Domination.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:24:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Asestorian on 18/05/2008 13:24:19
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 18/05/2008 13:19:55
Alright a Harbinger.
But let's say this was PVP, if a ship of the size I linked to above came after me in my apoc (fitted with mega pulse)....I wouldn't be able to hit it? (Unless I'm at level 4+ in tracking, trajectory etc?) Is that correct?
If this was in PvP you would have been a ridiculously easy kill, even with those skills. Battleships are skill intensive in SP, but also require some knowledge of PvP in order to fly effectively. You can have as many skills as you like, but you're still going to get slaughtered going against someone who knows what they're doing. EVE is a long term game, so take things slowly and learn as much as you can from each step along the way. Get to level 4 missions and you can use a BS fine most likely, but avoid using them in PvP for now.
Quote:
EDIT: Also what about using the mega pulse with a crystal that does a -% on the range? Getting the optimal range down to 30km or so.
That would probably increase your damage (as the crystals that reduce range also increase damage), but it won't affect your tracking.
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Quote:
Welcome to EVE, a PvP game where people are - shockingly - allowed to PvP as much as they like.
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Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:30:00 -
[13]
Thanks very much, I'll do as you say.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.18 16:50:00 -
[14]
Other ways to hit smaller targets are to use a stasis webifier (slows the target down), to get more range (you'd probably do better at your 60km optimal than at 20km), to use a tracking computer or tracking enhancer. I'm not sure how well target painters work, but that's something you could try.
Also, even with the Harbinger there's going to be small stuff that you can't hit. That's why you have a drone bay. You do have drones 5, right?
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[insert signature here] |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:34:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 18/05/2008 21:35:14
I'm using Cruisers so I don't have as much of a tracking problem but that doesn't mean I didn't have one.
Target Painters work very well. That's what I've been using, in concert with Webbing them and either Approaching them or moving away from them.
Slow them nearly to a stop, light them up like Christmas Trees and reduce your angle on them so the turret doesn't need to track as much.
I had a real problem until I started doing those things. Afterwards, no problem at all.
I would use drones but my cruiser doesn't have any.
Now ... there's a big thread here somewhere saying that target painter's aren't the way to go and you'll notice no one else has recommended them. I think the preference is for tracking computers.
One of the things I like - is that Target Painters light up the guy for everyone in the fleet. Since I normally fly in pairs, the other guy has an anti warp device in that slot (haven't used those characters much lately and don't remember which one).
Of course I've also have or plan to have Motion Prediction and Trajectory Analysis (not that this is going to help here) to IV.
In addition to all that - I also fit mostly smaller T2 guns w/ T2 Ammo if I'm going against frigates. I still like to keep some long range guns though and often pop the frigates with them before they get within range of the short range guns. (Actually they're lasers).
People are going to say not to do that too but for right now it's working fine. If that changes so will I.
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Pan Dora
Caldari
Bears Inc
Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.05.19 07:54:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Pan Dora on 19/05/2008 07:54:27
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
People are going to say not to do that too but for right now it's working fine. If that changes so will I.
HEY! DO NOT MIX YOUR WEAPONS!!! 
well, to be honest there are a few situation where a mix of weapons can work, that are situation where you are not using all the potential of your ship. Its the fact you are not in need of a better setup its why it actualy work. As long you know that you are archieving your goal despite your lack of skill/good fitting(and not becasue your setup) and work to change it ok.
Its just the ones that advocate that this is 'the way to go' that we realy want to find in a regular basis (with this kind of setup) in a low/null sec (preferable in expensive ships with expensive modules)
Pan |
annab
Amarr
Vermin.
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.05.19 14:06:00 -
[17]
The beam weapons will find it too hard to track the target at close range. You should use the beams on far away targets and drones on close targets. The smaller the target the harder it is to hit.
Think for it in this way. You don't use a sniper rife to take out someone whoes next to you. You use you pistol or knife.
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Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.20 07:46:00 -
[18]
Lvl3 mission?
You could just jump into a Drake and let the missiles take the strain.
You could try an Amarr BC instead. Medium guns will track that much better.
Or if you want to practice in your BS you need to get all your gunnery support skills to lvl4, then use an AB to try and keep your targets at optimal / zero transversal.
If they get too close use drones to eliminate them.
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.05.20 12:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
My guns optimal range is about 60km, at 16km I couldn't hit a thing
There you go. Reduce your optimal and improve tracking.
Goal Line Blitz, an American Football MMO
Vote Jade for CSM. |
Iron Wraith
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Posted - 2008.05.20 14:17:00 -
[20]
definitely get several sets of crystals. thats one of the advantages amarr have, 2 seconds to swap ammo type, every other race has to wait 10 seconds. multi frequency is the most damaging and closest range, perfect for when you get swarmed. i start with MF then work my way up the range selecting crystals that give a nice spread of range. get a full rack of each type you need.
with near maxed skills and pulse lasers i can hit orbiting cruisers in my abaddon, with low skills and beams you will need to find another way to hit them. pulses are close(ish) range weapons and as such have much better tracking than the beams. try the pulses out in the apoc, they get plenty of range (for lvl3 missions especially) and wont struggle as much with the tracking.
however there will always be some rats you just cant hit with big guns. for that there are drones, those little beauties will kill the scrambling frigs for you making safe your escape route. so make sure you cram your drone bay with them.
you can also look at getting webby drones (full rack of cap recharges to fuel the tank is very limiting). a few webby drones for the cruisers and above paired with 5 light drones (t2 as soon as you can!) should help out lots. my abaddon has a full rack of cap rechargers too, the huge tank is great but it does mean making sacrifices to your flexibility.
Because sometimes you just have to go back to your roots:
[2005.02.20 01:08:03] (combat) Your Civilian Light Electron Blaster perfectly strikes Serpentis Smuggler, wrecking for 20.3 damage |
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari
Under Heavy Fire
Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.20 16:36:00 -
[21]
Harbinger for lvl 3s no doubt. If you are indeed hellbent on using an Apoc, get a Web, and a Target Painter (optional) and fit Mega PULSE instead of Mega Beam. Lots lower optimal, but way more damage and tracking. If you can, devote one midslot to a Tracking Computer with Tracking Speed Script and/or a low slot to a Tracking Enhancer.
Originally by: "Cris Dono"
That ofc isn't the best thing when a punisher obviously fitted with an Acme Infini-cap-o-matic is still dishing out hurt like there was no tomorrow :(
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Taradis
The Imperial Assassins
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:24:00 -
[22]
If your gonna use an apoc use tachy modulated energy beams fit 5 of those and 2 cruise lauchers depending on skills second use mf crystals (amarr navy preferrebly for best damage) work on gunnery skills also don't put cruiser weapons on a BS.
get all of those skills to lvl 4. If u wanna hit a ship under 15 km use drones or fit pulses on it. I use drones running lvl 4s to hit frigs and cruiser that r that close.. I have tachys on my apoc their very nice good dps. tachy mods with mf crystals op range on mine is 40km optimal range. Give that a shot and let me know how that works for you but i usually run lvl 3's in my harb 
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