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Please give killmails when the target self-destructs.

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Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:09:00 - [1] Edited by: Captain Falcord on 18/05/2008 19:09:45 We killed a cyclone in 2 rifters and 1 griffin. Since we're all pretty new we were happy to have popped it ourselves. When it got down we asked the typical "who's got the killmail" but nobody had it. The guy had self-destructed! Please CCP fix this and give us kill mails when hitting a target that self-destructs, just like when it gets concorded. We would have loved to get a proof from that kill.
DasDizzy Violent Vikings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:01:00 - [2] i fully endorse this idea In federate gallente, armor tanks YOU
Fist1	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:04:00 - [3] lol the only reason to self destruct is so you don't get the kill mail durrrrrrrrrr
Alex Salas BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Dominatus Phasmatis	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:06:00 - [4] Isn't the concept of a killmail, that you killed him? Not in the process of.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:11:00 - [5] Ahh… time to dust of that good old Planetside saying: If you didn't manage to kill the guy, it wasn't your kill. Why should you get any rewards (of sorts) for not actually killing someone?
ghosttr Amarr Explora Empire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:26:00 - [6] Self-destructs should not be possible during pew pew then. I think that if someone self destructs you should at least get the kill mail, either that or i dont get a killmail and i get his lootz My Blog
Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Alex Salas Isn't the concept of a killmail, that you killed him? Not in the process of. Concord? Originally by: Tippia Ahhà time to dust of that good old Planetside saying: If you didn't manage to kill the guy, it wasn't your kill. Why should you get any rewards (of sorts) for not actually killing someone? If you are able to pin someone down, tank/avoid his fire, and break his tank, you fully deserve the killmail. If you forced a guy to self-destruct, you killed him. Period. He just had to surrender and LOSE sooner.
Hennry Fromer radiated space gerbils Shadow Donkeys	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:54:00 - [8] Be careful what you ask for, they could issue a kill mail now. It would go to the person that got the kill shot, the person using self destruct, and you would have a new problem. The next thread would be about mean victims that will not share mail, can't ccp make them?
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Captain Falcord If you are able to pin someone down, tank/avoid his fire, and break his tank, you fully deserve the killmail. …but you didn't actually manage to kill him, so no killmail for you.
cal nereus Koshaku Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:59:00 - [10] I believe this was the purpose of the self-destruct: if defeat is inevitable, just hurt the other guys' pride by denying them the kill-mail. It does suck for those who went to all the trouble of putting the enemy in that hopeless situation, but the bottom line is you didn't get the kill, regardless of the effort that went into the attempt. If anything, the guy who died is the one who gets the kill-mail, because he dealt the killing blow. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:04:00 - [11] You killed him to annoy him. He self-destructed to annoy you. You're annoyed thus he wins. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
loony thezoon	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Adonis 4174 You killed him to annoy him. He self-destructed to annoy you. You're annoyed thus he wins. You win the thread. qft
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 00:11:00 - [13] just throwing this out there, not sure if anyone else brought it up, but if you want a killmail you should actually kill him? just saying.
Javiir Soban Caldari Amarrian Religious Reformation Society Exalted	Posted - 2008.05.19 01:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Adonis 4174 You killed him to annoy him. He self-destructed to annoy you. You're annoyed thus he wins. Would you like a kill mail for this thread --- --- --- --- --- My views don't reflect those of my corporation, and definitely not those of my alliance as I don't have an alliance :p .
Ellie Stone Caldari az2ogaming Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.19 01:18:00 - [15] Perhaps I am a little bias but anything that increases the use of Killboards gets our endorsement. Joking aside though, this is a grey area. If you were going to have been able to kill the player had they not self-destructed then credit for the kill is fair enough, however the problem comes in how you calculate if this was the case if you are a database that generates the Killmails. So, taking this into account I think it should stay as it is. Hope this view doesn't result in loss of business ----------------------------------------------------- Az2o Gaming - Hosting Dynamic Killboards
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.05.19 02:15:00 - [16] Originally by: cal nereus I believe this was the purpose of the self-destruct: if defeat is inevitable, just hurt the other guys' pride by denying them the kill-mail. Or in some rare cases, denying them a carrier/dreadnought.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.19 02:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Fist1 lol the only reason to self destruct is so you don't get the kill mail durrrrrrrrrr or no loot, kill mails can be faked, that and when you blow up their mothership, well theres at least 10bil down the drain i really wouldnt mind not having a killmail if you don't have a mothership anymore
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Stickler inc	Posted - 2008.05.19 02:45:00 - [18] Posting in a "My E-Peen got damaged" thread.
Iridescent Moon Caldari Iridescent Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.19 03:06:00 - [19] no
Zobiana	Posted - 2008.05.19 03:34:00 - [20] Self destruct is there for a reason, to prevent YOU from getting a reward from ganking someone. If you can't kill them within the 2 minutes it takes to self destruct... oh well. Z
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.05.19 04:02:00 - [21] I honestly have no idea why Self Destruct was instituted. I doubt it was so you could stop someone from getting the killmail though. It was probably simply because 'we're a space game, we've got to have it.' The only time I ever use it is to pod-jump somewhere. And I've not done that in a long time. Frankly if you're under fire you shouldn't be able to initiate self-destruct. _______ Pirating 101: A Basic Course
Fist1	Posted - 2008.05.19 04:52:00 - [22] Edited by: Fist1 on 19/05/2008 04:52:17 Originally by: Zobiana Self destruct is there for a reason, to prevent YOU from getting a reward from ganking someone. If you can't kill them within the 2 minutes it takes to self destruct... oh well. Z If you gank them and cannot kill them in 2 minuets, you suck as a ganker and don't deserve the kill mail end thread/
Winterblink Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.19 04:55:00 - [23] Originally by: Adonis 4174 You killed him to annoy him. He self-destructed to annoy you. You're annoyed thus he wins. Post of the week right here :) warp drive active \| nature vraie
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.19 06:05:00 - [24] I think self destruct is legal if you are target jammed from start and have to sit there for 10 minutes watcing your ship run out of hitpoints Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:39:00 - [25] Edited by: Captain Falcord on 19/05/2008 11:39:09 Originally by: Fist1 Edited by: Fist1 on 19/05/2008 04:52:17 Originally by: Zobiana Self destruct is there for a reason, to prevent YOU from getting a reward from ganking someone. If you can't kill them within the 2 minutes it takes to self destruct... oh well. Z If you gank them and cannot kill them in 2 minuets, you suck as a ganker and don't deserve the kill mail end thread/ That depends. If you kill a dreadnought in your t1 frig (comical example) Doesn't matter if you spend 3 hours, you're a hero. And what I don't like is the fact that concord-helped kills get killmails and self-destruct ones don't. Either remove ones or introduce the other.
Braaage eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:42:00 - [26] Why should you be able to self destruct when being blown apart? Remove the ability to self destruct when under fire (dons tin foil hat and flame suit). -- All about POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, EVE Database + much more!!
Johnny Gurkha Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:43:00 - [27] We had a -10 Hyperion jump into high sec just to stop us getting the KM. **** happens, move on, find another victim... MCI Recruitment
Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Adonis 4174 You killed him to annoy him. He self-destructed to annoy you. You're annoyed thus he wins. Good one :) Just wanted to make clear me and my friends are not annoyed, and I'm not whining in any way, just discussing a game feature we don't like. We sincerely don't care about that cyclone killmail, we know we killed it and we had a lot of fun. We would have liked to have that proof, as a hunting trophy, but world is not ending if we don't get it.
Sunbird Huy Yarrtards With Epeen	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:53:00 - [29] self destruct's should have a separate killboard, centralised with CCP's server, and with ships and people that were shooting it when it popped... and have that list come with the most shameful self-destructs, like top ten with weekly edition...at least some recompense for the pvp-ers that put effort of aggroing the victim.
Ioci Gallente Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Ethaet The entire point of self destructing is to deny the mail/loot. It should stay that way. Don't like it? Bring more dps. ] Oddly enough, that's the reason I like SD. 11 man blobs popping my mission Drake don't deserve KM's. I've never gotten the whole mail farming crap to begin with so if I don't get one, I really don't care. It would suck to be the OP but knowing how well gank me factor works and that the Cyclone was no doubt jammed, set up to rat and never had a chance, I can't feel that bad.
Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:02:00 - [31] Edited by: Captain Falcord on 19/05/2008 12:02:40 Originally by: Ioci Originally by: Ethaet The entire point of self destructing is to deny the mail/loot. It should stay that way. Don't like it? Bring more dps. ] Oddly enough, that's the reason I like SD. 11 man blobs popping my mission Drake don't deserve KM's. I've never gotten the whole mail farming crap to begin with so if I don't get one, I really don't care. It would suck to be the OP but knowing how well gank me factor works and that the Cyclone was no doubt jammed, set up to rat and never had a chance, I can't feel that bad. He was jammed. PVP fit tho. But mate, we're 2 week old players and it's basically the first important fight we won (apart from ganking a couple rifters), so we were very proud of it, even knowing the fight itself was easy. Anyway he had a chance to survive, our jammer was a 2 week old griffin, if he had resisted one of the jams he could have insta-popped our griffin easily. He didn't. Bad luck, we ran the risk, so we won.
Braaage eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:05:00 - [32] One new feature CCP should bring in is that if self destruct is initiated then insurance is void. -- All about POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, EVE Database + much more!!
Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:11:00 - [33] Originally by: Braaage One new feature CCP should bring in is that if self destruct is initiated then insurance is void. No no it's easier than that just give the killmails :P I don't have anything against the self-destruct feature, I just don't like it to be used as it is at the moment.
Tiodus Gallente City of Certitude Coalition of the ExtraOrdinary	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:22:00 - [34] Hi, I'd just like to drop in and say I have no need whatsoever for any killmails in any situation, ever. -------------------- /O\ Can't pvp /O\ --------------------
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.19 13:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Ridley Tree I honestly have no idea why Self Destruct was instituted. I doubt it was so you could stop someone from getting the killmail though. It was probably simply because 'we're a space game, we've got to have it.' The only time I ever use it is to pod-jump somewhere. And I've not done that in a long time. Frankly if you're under fire you shouldn't be able to initiate self-destruct. Actually self-destruct was instituted so you can't keep someone tackled forever. It lacked a timer at the time so people did it all the time before popping so they gave it a two minute timer to prevent that sort of usage. Nowdays with the HP buffs and capitals, the timer needs extending/scaling according to ship size really. I mean, if a small gang menages to take down a, say, carrier (which is not a small feat for a really small gang) they should get rewarded rather then penalized. I mean, if someone's a solo frigate pilot and he menages to somehow kill a BS, you'd think the guy deserves a medal instead of no loot and no KM because you can't realistically chew through the HP in time As for the people saying it's a way for victims to 'get back' to their attackers, well. The "victim" can fit guns / bring friends / fight just like the attackers, there's absolutely NO reason to have a "deny loot/etc" button after you've lost in a supposedly 'harsh' game. Furthermore, piracy in EvE is a valid profession as any other. Menaging to catch and break a ship takes time and effort and you take risks when doing so. People should not be able to deny you the reward simply because they've got tons of HP so you can't chew through it in two minutes. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 13:05:00 - [36] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Ridley Tree I honestly have no idea why Self Destruct was instituted. I doubt it was so you could stop someone from getting the killmail though. It was probably simply because 'we're a space game, we've got to have it.' The only time I ever use it is to pod-jump somewhere. And I've not done that in a long time. Frankly if you're under fire you shouldn't be able to initiate self-destruct. Actually self-destruct was instituted so you can't keep someone tackled forever. It lacked a timer at the time so people did it all the time before popping so they gave it a two minute timer to prevent that sort of usage. Nowdays with the HP buffs and capitals, the timer needs extending/scaling according to ship size really. I mean, if a small gang menages to take down a, say, carrier (which is not a small feat for a really small gang) they should get rewarded rather then penalized. I mean, if someone's a solo frigate pilot and he menages to somehow kill a BS, you'd think the guy deserves a medal instead of no loot and no KM because you can't realistically chew through the HP in time As for the people saying it's a way for victims to 'get back' to their attackers, well. The "victim" can fit guns / bring friends / fight just like the attackers, there's absolutely NO reason to have a "deny loot/etc" button after you've lost in a supposedly 'harsh' game. Furthermore, piracy in EvE is a valid profession as any other. Menaging to catch and break a ship takes time and effort and you take risks when doing so. People should not be able to deny you the reward simply because they've got tons of HP so you can't chew through it in two minutes. Exactly THIS I wish I had such a good english to express myself. Can I quote your post in my opening one? BTW on a side note: Are you sure SD gets you no loot? That cyclone had actually dropped some ammo and a couple modules if i recall correctly.
Matrix Skye	Posted - 2008.05.19 13:13:00 - [37] Originally by: Captain Falcord CCP, please enhance my e-peen by a couple more inches, pretty please? kthxbie I fixed your OP so it's easier to understand. No need to thank me .
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.19 14:19:00 - [38] Originally by: Ioci Originally by: Ethaet The entire point of self destructing is to deny the mail/loot. It should stay that way. Don't like it? Bring more dps. ] Oddly enough, that's the reason I like SD. 11 man blobs popping my mission Drake don't deserve KM's. I've never gotten the whole mail farming crap to begin with so if I don't get one, I really don't care. It would suck to be the OP but knowing how well gank me factor works and that the Cyclone was no doubt jammed, set up to rat and never had a chance, I can't feel that bad. The issue is precisely that a 11-man blob will melt your Drake in 30 seconds flat and you'll never get a chance to self-destruct or really fight back. So they'll get it all, even though it's a outright gank which is really annoying for the victim. 3 people in frigates/T1 cruisers you do have a chance of defending against cannot melt you in the required time; but they certainly shouldn't be penalized because they didn't bring a 10+man blob to kill your mission Drake, which they do with the current SD mechanics. If anything, three frigs/T1 cruisers attacking a BC is a interesting fight for all involved parties and not a outright gank. Self-destruct timer as it is actually encourages blobbing to insure you can rip through a target before they can self-destruct. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.05.19 14:29:00 - [39] Edited by: Nicholas Barker on 19/05/2008 14:31:24 Originally by: Wikipedia; sinking of the bismarck Although the battleship's upper works were almost completely destroyed, her engines were still functioning and the hull appeared to be relatively sound; therefore rather than risk her being captured, Captain Lindemann gave the order to scuttle and then abandon ship. Although the ships involved can say they caused it's sinking, it was not they who sank it and therefore lose out on some of the glory and such. As do you. EDIT - I'd also like to add that i never actually use this function, unless it's a battle of epic proportions with a ship that deserves to have it's legacy intact in my mind and to make further recalls of its story that little bit more special when telling war stories among friends on TS. ---
Taedrin Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.05.19 14:51:00 - [40] Originally by: Cpt Branko As for the people saying it's a way for victims to 'get back' to their attackers, well. The "victim" can fit guns / bring friends / fight just like the attackers, there's absolutely NO reason to have a "deny loot/etc" button after you've lost in a supposedly 'harsh' game. Furthermore, piracy in EvE is a valid profession as any other. Menaging to catch and break a ship takes time and effort and you take risks when doing so. People should not be able to deny you the reward simply because they've got tons of HP so you can't chew through it in two minutes. Scuttling Now, I know that EVE shouldn't be compared too much to real life, but I think that self destruct as a last act of defiance actually gives EVE quite a bit of flavor. I also disagree with your statement that the only way to "get back" at a pirate should be to fit guns and shoot at him back. Why? Personal preference I guess.
Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 15:46:00 - [41] You self-destruct supporters keep defending the act of self-destructing itself. It's fine, it has existed in real life, from scuttling to hara-kiri and it's nice but... If a sailor is attacking a ship and it suddenly sinks itself, the sailor has got a story to tell, a proof, a Killmail, because the fact is that the target ship died by his hand. Same in eve. He self-destructed, okay, but WE were de cause for him to self-destruct. We're not asking for SD to be removed, we just want a killmail: If you want, with a enormous "the target self-destructed" marker in it, but we want it anyway.
Torvalis Moschino	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:10:00 - [42] Killmails were the worst thing to happen to this game. sorry about getting kicked in the e-nuts when he SD'ed.
Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Torvalis Moschino Killmails were the worst thing to happen to this game. sorry about getting kicked in the e-nuts when he SD'ed. I'm tired of you guys with all the e-peen ****. I don't care about showing off, in fact, I never share killmails, I just like to have them there in our private KB so I can keep a track of what, who and when we kill. Is that so wrong? If I wanted to show off I just had to fake the killmail, which is not so hard after all. I want a reminder of that kill, just that. Okay?
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:25:00 - [44] I view self destructing as a way of denying your opponent your loot as a last act of defiance. The fact that it also denies killmails is unfortunate but not generally a huge concern of mine. Self destruct should void your insurance though. I mean, that's pretty obvious insurance fraud right there. It also forces the victim into some quick mental calculations while under fire. "is my ship faction fit? Do I want to deny my mods to the enemy? is that worth giving up the insurance money?"
Vrikshaka Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:28:00 - [45] Originally by: Braaage One new feature CCP should bring in is that if self destruct is initiated then insurance is void. This. Originally by: Cpt Branko Nowdays with the HP buffs and capitals, the timer needs extending/scaling according to ship size really. And this.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:44:00 - [46] I disagree with the OP: Self-destruction to prevent loot and killmail is part of the game. I understand the frustration of not getting a nice killmail. But all's fair in Eve, and when people WANT the killmail so bad, then its part of the game to deny that thrill. The issue here is that the OP thinks he has some sort of 'Right' to have a killmail. While I agree he has indeed sucessfully killed a superior opponent, the OP has earned no 'Right' to anything. That kind of thinking can also give the victim 'Rights', such as the 'Right' to press the Big Red Button. The point of extending the timer a bit is valid. It might also add enough time to prevent most self-destructs. For the record, I have never self-destructed a ship to deny a killmail: I think its Lame. Just make fun of the guy on CAOD: They tend to be more merciless about Lame tactics than any embarassing lossmail would ever be.
Xen Gin Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:40:00 - [47] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Captain Falcord If you are able to pin someone down, tank/avoid his fire, and break his tank, you fully deserve the killmail. àbut you didn't actually manage to kill him, so no killmail for you. Yeah, but even when someone destroys your ship, its not really killing you is it. Podding deserves a kill mail, losing a ship deserves destruction mail, and any hostile act that eventually leads to either kill mail or destruction mail gets an action mail.
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:44:00 - [48] Originally by: Princess Jodi Self-destruction to prevent loot and killmail is part of the game. the anus is part of the human body, but you dont have to mimic its shape or function do you? people acting in ridiculous fashion with expensive ships and being able to deny the aggressor anything is a travesty, like bacon, like logoffski, like dock radius, like local chat...if you are so weak that the only thing you can affect is the quickness with which you die, you are fail beyond fail... get rid of self destruct if taking damage already
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:23:00 - [49] Originally by: Matrixcvd Originally by: Princess Jodi Self-destruction to prevent loot and killmail is part of the game. the anus is part of the human body, but you dont have to mimic its shape or function do you? people acting in ridiculous fashion with expensive ships and being able to deny the aggressor anything is a travesty, like bacon, like logoffski, like dock radius, like local chat...if you are so weak that the only thing you can affect is the quickness with which you die, you are fail beyond fail... get rid of self destruct if taking damage already Wow, you're really mad. I think killmails should be generated when a target under fire self destructs, but attitudes like that are just hilarious. Originally by: Adonis 4174 You killed him to annoy him. He self-destructed to annoy you. You're annoyed thus he wins. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE

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