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Calio
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Posted - 2004.05.02 11:09:00 -
[1]
I thought something wasn't right last time I got a mining mission, so when I next got a trade mission I kept track of the numbers. And, there is a problem.
The trade mission was to buy 7 superconductors. The text said I would be paid for the cost AND get an 84k reward + 63K bonus. I found 1 of the item at ~19k (the absolute cheapest price in Lonetrek region) and the other 6 at another station in the same system at ~25k (other than the singel one for 19k, no others were available for under 24k+). Total cost was ~170k. I brought them to the agent and completed the mission. I got the 147k reward+bonus (84+63) but that was all!!! In other words, I lost 20k isk on the mission (and the point of doing missions is to make isk, not lose them)!
I petitioned that I had actually LOST 20k on the mission and the CSA reimbursed me the 20k (and said they are working on fixing the problem).
Also, the earlier mission that had aroused my suspicions involved mining Trit and the reward+bonus was only about what I could have quick sold it for at the station (and may again have actually gotten less from the agent than I could have sold the Trit for at another station). I got nothing extra again for the actual minerals.
So, you all should be aware of the problem and keep track of your numbers if you do these missions, so you at least don't lose any isk for doing them (Though, why they are worth doing at all for generally no gain is a good question)
"Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov) |
Feral
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Posted - 2004.05.02 11:24:00 -
[2]
All agents operate off npc prices. Player prices have raised costs in some areas WAY above the npc's prices. I suspect if you check your transaction log, you'll find the superconductors you purchased came from a player, not an npc corp, hence the higher prices.
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s4mp3r0r
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Posted - 2004.05.02 11:24:00 -
[3]
I thought the basic GM reply to this sort of thing was :
"You're not doing missions to make money, you're doing missions to gain standing".
Has this changed now ?
Bjorn Borg :
Underwear is futile ! |
Calio
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Posted - 2004.05.02 11:30:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Calio on 02/05/2004 11:35:29
 Originally by: Feral
All agents operate off npc prices. Player prices have raised costs in some areas WAY above the npc's prices. I suspect if you check your transaction log, you'll find the superconductors you purchased came from a player, not an npc corp, hence the higher prices.
That may be. But, it doesn't alter the fact that I got NOTHING at all for the cost of the items - no reimburesment at all (even though the mission said I would). Just the reward and bonus for having done the mission.
@ZiTek: The CSR was actually very good about reimbursing me for the lost 20k. And like I said. He said they are aware of this problem with such missions and are working on fixing it. My point in posting is to make people aware of the problem until they actually do fix it.
"Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov) |
Kerr AVON
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Posted - 2004.05.02 11:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: s4mp3r0r
I thought the basic GM reply to this sort of thing was :
"You're not doing missions to make money, you're doing missions to gain standing".
Has this changed now ?
Agreed. I'm surprised you got a refund on that mission. You don't see a problem when stitching up your agent by getting rewards way in excess of the value of items? I'd love to see the agents mass-petitioning against us for ripping them off 
Some rewards are good, some are bad; over time you make plenty of money. If you get a mission where you REALLY don't want to lose isk, you can reject it. I always accept and get on with it. My standings are more important to me than the rewards atm.
_____________________
Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself
Combat Your 250mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Blood Arch Engraver, wrecking for 737.7 damage. |
Calio
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Posted - 2004.05.02 11:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kerr AVON
Agreed. I'm surprised you got a refund on that mission. You don't see a problem when stitching up your agent by getting rewards way in excess of the value of items? I'd love to see the agents mass-petitioning against us for ripping them off [:lol:
Some rewards are good, some are bad; over time you make plenty of money. If you get a mission where you REALLY don't want to lose isk, you can reject it. I always accept and get on with it. My standings are more important to me than the rewards atm.
You're missing the point. The reward one gets is for the time it takes to do the mission. The bonus is for doing it particularly quickly. Most missions have no cost other than time. Trade missions do and the mission structure recognizes that fact (in principle) by saying you will be reimbursed for the cost. It's not reimbursing you for the cost! So you either lose the value of the cost or the value of your time since you are only getting isk for one or the other.
Since courier and kill missions also raise standing and do not require you to lose money in the process, there is no good reason at all to do these missions until they fix them.
"Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov) |
Kerr AVON
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Posted - 2004.05.02 11:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Calio
You're missing the point. The reward one gets is for the time it takes to do the mission. The bonus is for doing it particularly quickly. Most missions have no cost other than time. Trade missions do and the mission structure recognizes that fact (in principle) by saying you will be reimbursed for the cost. It's not reimbursing you for the cost! So you either lose the value of the cost or the value of your time since you are only getting isk for one or the other.
Since courier and kill missions also raise standing and do not require you to lose money in the process, there is no good reason at all to do these missions until they fix them.
Just how often do you get a trade mission where you lose money though? If it was every other mission, I'd accept your point, but it obviously isn't if you've decided to post about it while doing level 2 missions.
As for there being no loss of money in doing kill missions, you're not taking into account the risk of losing your ship & modules. I'd rather lose 20k buying superconductors than a fully fitted Thorax. And there are plenty of people using Kestrels with missiles to take on cruiser rats - they can find themselves losing money that way too.
I agree that the wording of the trade missions could be cleaned up though; saying that you will be reimbursed for the cost of the items purchased is misleading when the figures are based on npc pricing...
_____________________
Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself
Combat Your 250mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Blood Arch Engraver, wrecking for 737.7 damage. |
Armin Chamberlain
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Posted - 2004.05.02 13:06:00 -
[8]
You petitioned because you lost 20k for buying things??? No wonder nobody answers the real petitions like for the Escrow and skill bugs! |
Calio
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Posted - 2004.05.02 15:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kerr AVON
Just how often do you get a trade mission where you lose money though? If it was every other mission, I'd accept your point, but it obviously isn't if you've decided to post about it while doing level 2 missions.
I have no idea what the % is. This was my first trade mission since the turorial (so it's 100% for me) and I've been doing lev 3 missions long enough to have a full set of implants.
Quote:
As for there being no loss of money in doing kill missions, you're not taking into account the risk of losing your ship & modules. I'd rather lose 20k buying superconductors than a fully fitted Thorax. And there are plenty of people using Kestrels with missiles to take on cruiser rats - they can find themselves losing money that way too.
You are confusing the risk of loss based on poor game play with a structured loss you incur no matter what you do (there was no way at all to come out ahead on that mission).
Quote:
saying that you will be reimbursed for the cost of the items purchased is misleading when the figures are based on npc pricing...
This is what I mean when I say "you misunderstand." I got nothing back at all with regard to pricing. Neither the 'average' NPC price, nor my actual buying price. All I got were the reward and bonus, which are random numbers generated with no regard to the items being purchsed.
"Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov) |
Calio
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Posted - 2004.05.02 15:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Armin Chamberlain
You petitioned because you lost 20k for buying things??? No wonder nobody answers the real petitions like for the Escrow and skill bugs!
I petitioned because it was a bug. Read the original post before you shoot off your mouth. I got an answer that: yes it was a bug and we're going to put 20k in your wallet to compensate you for the loss based on the bug (and the numbers I submitted to demonstate that it was in fact a bug).
Hard as it may be for you to comprehend, a bug is a bug and whether it costs a player 100 mil or 1k, it needs to be addressed. The fact that the CSR reimbursed me for the loss is a nice little bonus. I'm simply pointing the damn bug out here so others can avoid it.
And I don't know where you play, but I've had every petition I've ever submitted answered within an hour or two tops. And except when everyone and their uncle is stuck that's the norm. So don't get your knicker's in a twist. The answer to my petition didn't come out of your hide. It's not like you were waiting stuck somewhere while the CSR was sending me the little note with his answer.
"Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov) |
Armin Chamberlain
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Posted - 2004.05.02 17:01:00 -
[11]
Duh, someone's sensitive, talk about minor issues... |
Kerr AVON
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Posted - 2004.05.02 20:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Calio
(Though, why they are worth doing at all for generally no gain is a good question)
Well, looking at the last part of your original post would suggest that you feel the agents have an obligation to weigh out rewards based on how much you 'could' have made if you were doing other things...
1) As Papa Smurf has suggested before, the standing increases (and all the things that come from that) are the main reason for doing agent missions
2) The monetary rewards can certainly make it worthwhile doing missions too. Losing money on the odd mission is a tiny drop in the ocean compared to the isk you'll generate over time
I don't expect to receive the same money per hour that I would if I were Ark mining in deep 0.0 - there seem to be a few people around that care only for isk in their wallet... turn the sensor grid onto the planets you pass on your travels & enjoy the trees & flowers every so often 
_____________________
Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself
Combat Your 250mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Blood Arch Engraver, wrecking for 737.7 damage. |
Elemental Shadow
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Posted - 2004.05.02 20:37:00 -
[13]
You're not going to get reimbursed for more than the standard NPC price for an item. If the agent reimbursed you for the actual cost you paid, you could exploit the system by buying items from your friends at ridiculously high prices.
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Inconstant Moon
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Posted - 2004.05.02 22:13:00 -
[14]
you were right to bring it to the forums, you were wrong to waste a gm's time on it. the queue is 7+ days now. be considerate for those people with real problems.
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2004.05.02 23:20:00 -
[15]
The agents always use NPC prices, not player prices. The problem here is that players have bought up all of the NPC supply in your region, and are selling the items way above the NPC price. The agent doesn't care about this, if he would go by the player price it would be extremely exploitable.
My advice is check the price of the item before you accept the mission. Decline the mission if you feel the price is too high. Declining a mission has a pretty low penalty, lower than quitting / failing.
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.05.02 23:33:00 -
[16]
... or simply accept that you do your agent a favour from time to time and do a mission which is a small loss.
Even for a noob 20k should not be a big problem I think. If it is, then eve-mail me and I will give you 5x 20k so that you can do 5 such missions without problems
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