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Why is there no "battleship plus" ship class?

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Nomakai Delateriel Shadow Company	Posted - 2008.05.22 01:25:00 - [31] Originally by: Cpt Branko The two 'gank' battlecruisers (Harbringer and Hurricane) in EvE do perhaps 2/3rds of the damage output of a battleship actually. Cruiser guns do 33% less DPS then BS guns. They're not that far off from the actual 'battlecruiser' concept. Not really. Battlecruisers were designed according to the "Outgun what you can't outrun" principle, with not too much armor and instead light but powerful engines and powerful very long range guns (allowing ships like the Scharnhorst and Graf Spee to engage and disable enemy ships long before they were in range to retaliate). The closest we got to the actual battlecruiser concept is...gasp the Ferox. Well, it would be a bit more accurate if the Ferox was designed to use Pulse lasers Could be an idea for Tier 3 battlecruisers. Gallente, Minmatar and Caldari ships with bonuses to fall-off, while the Amarr class would have a bonus to Optimal. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Lili Killer	Posted - 2008.05.22 02:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Hanneshannes Originally by: Falcon Troy Edited by: Falcon Troy on 21/05/2008 23:25:22 Going along with the RL aspect, the U.S. (And most of the world) doesn't use battleships anymore and they won't be using frigates either. The Navy pretty much comprises of Cruisers, Destroyers, Carriers, and Submarines now... Eh, hm... I'm confused, I don't know too much about RL fleets. Don't they use any battleships anymore? Guess these days, they're an easy target for aircraft from a carrier. i belive the rusian navy still has 2 but there firepower is the same of a modern cruiser. figates are still used bu the smaller navys out here. and do not forget the o so importand minesweepers. and remember you got two types of subs. 1 that shoots dow other subs and ships and 1 that nukes down would countrys :D. but back to eve a battleship + version is the dread :D
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.22 02:44:00 - [33] Ya but the dread is hardly an anti BS ship...
Arkanjuca R.U.S.T.	Posted - 2008.05.22 05:58:00 - [34] Originally by: Hanneshannes Ya but the dread is hardly an anti BS ship... Carrier is... but you just cant warp around jumping gates...
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.22 06:00:00 - [35] What would be cool was heavy bombers and miners. (Mine's as in kab00m and not mineral farm) Beeing able to place disturbance bombs thruout a battlefield (web bombs webbing for 5 secounds in a 15km AOE anyone?)
Imaos	Posted - 2008.05.22 07:06:00 - [36] Originally by: Ortos What would be cool was heavy bombers and miners. (Mine's as in kab00m and not mineral farm) Beeing able to place disturbance bombs thruout a battlefield (web bombs webbing for 5 secounds in a 15km AOE anyone?) Talk to the people who still have a mine BPO and why they were removed from game. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
Falcon Troy Awesome People Secret Corp	Posted - 2008.05.22 07:28:00 - [37] Originally by: Imaos Originally by: Ortos What would be cool was heavy bombers and miners. (Mine's as in kab00m and not mineral farm) Beeing able to place disturbance bombs thruout a battlefield (web bombs webbing for 5 secounds in a 15km AOE anyone?) Talk to the people who still have a mine BPO and why they were removed from game. Imaos I'll make it easy. People were laying them by the hundreds around stations and gates...not a pleasant game mechanic. People still have them lying around and they're worth a collector's fortune I think...
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.22 07:44:00 - [38] Have them on a timer or make them work like drones. Make them utility mines for that sake, web mines, ECM blasts for instance. Or neut mines, draining huge amounts of cap. But yeah, I can understand mines beeing removed but perhaps damage mines are not the way to go. A mine ship or heavy bomber for that sake could be the ultimate in AOE EWAR. Imagine ECM bombs making entire fleets loose lock. Now these ships could be along the lines of a HIC, only beeing able to fit one bomb module and that bomb would be a utility bomb of choice. Say you've got a 150km fleet fight and someone launches a dampening bomb meaning half your fleet is unable to lock at the recuired distance for 5 secounds?
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.05.22 10:19:00 - [39] Originally by: Hanneshannes Ya but the dread is hardly an anti BS ship... They kind of were supposed to be when they were first mentioned in dev blogs: Dev blog 'firepower of a couple of BS when not in siege' - well they would if they had 6-8 turrets... Perhaps the siege mode damage boost should be halved and the base damage on XL weapons doubled? -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
FlameGlow School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.22 11:00:00 - [40] It is quite easy to make up some BS+ ships like maybe mini-carrier like BS with 2-3 fighters or a heavy bomber BS with some citadel torp launchers, or command BS with fleet bonuses, or flyswatter BS with good bonuses to range of medium/small guns(speed/explosion speed and damage of smaller missiles).
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.22 14:43:00 - [41] Would be great with a discussion of what ship types there is room for. I'd personally love to see something like a cruiser sized or battleship sized destroyer. Meanth for one thing, pure destruction without much defence.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2008.05.22 14:56:00 - [42] I don't think this game needs a 'battleship plus' class. I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.05.22 15:25:00 - [43] I'm kind of surprised that people can mention the "8 turret limit" in the same post that they mention marauders. I'm not saying this is a good idea, heh, but CCP could easily create a class of Battleships with 5 turret slots and a 100% damage bonus per turret bonus. It'd basically equate to a 10 turret ship, the same as marauders equate to 8 turrets (and yes, I realize with other bonuses marauders have more than 8 effective turrets, but you get the point). Does this really fill a role that's needed atm? Well, you be the judge. I'm guessing t2 battleships would probably be too pricy to be used in fleets (2 extra turrets aren't worth the uninsurable extra cost). But they could be fun in other roles, haha.
Rollerrat	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:25:00 - [44] IMO a battleship should be a battleship. I'm frankly quite ****ed that neither marauders or black ops have any place at all in a fleet. A T2 battleship either dangerous enough or survivable enough (aint gonna happen) or even better, usefull enough to be taken to a fleet fight would be a great thing. The only ships I see beeing taken to a fight like that is Heavy Bombers or EWAR ships. I dont think the current EWAR cruisers should be taken out of fleet so an AOE EWAR ship is my best suggestion. Think I read something about it in this thread yesterday, but ECM, webbing, neuts and especially dampening could be great if it was possible to apply it to every single ship in a fleet. Or in a say 10-20km area.
Alowishus Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:26:00 - [45] Edited by: Alowishus on 22/05/2008 16:26:23 I'd much rather see a Light Dreadnought and a Light Siege Module. Something that uses BS sized guns but gets a nice damage/defense modifier from the Light Siege Module, which has a duration of 3-5 minutes.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:28:00 - [46] Originally by: Derek Sigres Battleships are still a part of the Naval forces of many nations but their purpose has changed. no one has any battleship equivalents now. the iowa's were the last in service. few navies now even build the equivalent of cruisers any more. navies generally get by with frigates these days.
AppleBanana	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:28:00 - [47] Yea nuclear subs and jet bombers pretty much phased out Battleships. Subs cost less to build, take a much smaller crew, cost less to operate, pack alot more firepower, and can run silent. The silent + nuclear strike being the most important as a Battleship requires an escort fleet. Jet bombers are more precise than a batleship and travel much faster. Plus modern day cruisers guns can reach farther out than an old WW2 BS could. I did hear something about they used a few old WW2 BS in like the korean war and gulf war and upgraded them to run on nuclear power. I the one in the gulf war served as the flagship for the fleet there. Also countries just dont build coastal forts anymore, they have switched to building airbases inland.
Jackie Fisher	Posted - 2008.05.22 19:14:00 - [48] Originally by: Hanneshannes Eh, hm... I'm confused, I don't know too much about RL fleets. Don't they use any battleships anymore? A battleship is a specific type of warship. So obviously there are types warships being built but no battleships have been built since WW2.
Sir Finklestein	Posted - 2008.05.22 19:18:00 - [49] WTB Battlestar class ship with Asgard weapons /nerd
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.22 19:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Alowishus I'd much rather see a Light Dreadnought and a Light Siege Module. Something that uses BS sized guns but gets a nice damage/defense modifier from the Light Siege Module, which has a duration of 3-5 minutes. Siege modules would be great. But would you take a battleship out to fleet combat based on the fact that it has a siege module? And if that siege module was made too good, and this is a fleet ship (by the way im reading it) you would allso have a solopwnmachine in PVE. Capable of doing level 8-9 complexes solo noprob. Not that i'd mind people beeing able to do that. IMO, it would be f*cking amazing beeing able to scan down and solo complexes in a subcap ship. And that tons of people would do so wouldnt be any prob for my sake. The stuff that comes out of complexes as of today just has ridiculous prices anyhow.
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:43:00 - [51] In the real world I think there's not much place for "armor" (or "shields" if there were such a thing) because we have missiles and bombs powerful enough to destroy big ships with single hits. So the idea of a monstrously big battleship with heavy armor and huge guns is irrelevant. In the modern world, the only defense is a good offense, which is why air power, satellites, and missiles are so important. The slugfests that you have in EVE, where opponents can spend a few minutes dueling and hit each other dozens of times before the end, probably bear more similarity to melee combat between armored knights of the middle ages than they do to modern naval combat. ---------------- [insert signature here]
Alowishus Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:57:00 - [52] Originally by: Ortos Originally by: Alowishus I'd much rather see a Light Dreadnought and a Light Siege Module. Something that uses BS sized guns but gets a nice damage/defense modifier from the Light Siege Module, which has a duration of 3-5 minutes. Siege modules would be great. But would you take a battleship out to fleet combat based on the fact that it has a siege module? And if that siege module was made too good, and this is a fleet ship (by the way im reading it) you would allso have a solopwnmachine in PVE. Capable of doing level 8-9 complexes solo noprob. Not that i'd mind people beeing able to do that. IMO, it would be f*cking amazing beeing able to scan down and solo complexes in a subcap ship. And that tons of people would do so wouldnt be any prob for my sake. The stuff that comes out of complexes as of today just has ridiculous prices anyhow. Well we'd be talking about a cap ship so it couldn't be a solowtfpwnmobile unless you had a lot of cyno alts. What I'd like to see is a mini-dreadnought that's more useful in ship-to-ship combat. Something that'd tank 3000dps and lay down 3000dps as well, while being imobile, like a dread, but for much less time. It'd use Large turrets, maybe 4-6 of them, and be totally useless while not in siege. And you wouldn't be able to take it through star gates or into complexes It wouldn't be a solowtfpwnmobile for many reasons that Dreads and Carriers already aren't. But it'd be a bit more fun to fly than a regular dread.
Warrio Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.23 02:23:00 - [53] Originally by: Derek Sigres One of the things I found when I was in the military is that movies and video games have absolutely NO idea how much destruction a modern battleforce can bring to bear. That's why the minmitar capital artillery is funny to me. It fires 4 shells at a time (quad barrel) each being 4.5 meters in diameter. These things are shooting housing complexes worth of payload across the universe - you could annihilate CITIES with that sort of firepower in short order. The biggest ordinance I've personally witnessed go off is a series of 120mm Rockets and that tore the PX area on camp liberty to hell. It seems equally odd to me that damage scales in such a linear fashion. Apparently the Eve designers thought the difference between a 120mm rail and a 150mm rail was only a few points when it would more realisticly be several times more powerful. Keep in mind that one of the missiles (I think it's the thermal or explosive cruise missile) is described in the item description as being a "large nuclear warhead". The fact that the ships in Eve can stand up to that is an indication of how strong they are ment to be compared to what we have today. The PX at camp liberty and a modern day MBT is nothing compared to a warp drive using, law of physics breaking, thosands of years in the future spaceship. Sig removed due to being too freaking awsome. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.05.23 06:06:00 - [54] The next battleship we build will be built in space. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 06:54:00 - [55] Originally by: Anubis Xian The next battleship we build will be built in space. Far too likely..
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE	Posted - 2008.05.23 09:51:00 - [56] Originally by: Ortos Originally by: Anubis Xian The next battleship we build will be built in space. Far too likely.. Extremely unlikely. Any kind of real life space warfare is silly when you take into account the cost of lifting materials into space, and the fact that the satelites, shuttles and space station station we have now are insanely fragile. Sure, you could spend billions of dollars building a large metal thing in orbit, strap rocket engines, crew areas, a command deck and missile bays to it, and call it a battleship... but why? Come to think of it, a better idea would be to hollow out a small asteroid, strap engines to that and fit it with whatever weapons work best in space. You'd have an outer hull of solid iron for armor. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Destovel	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:56:00 - [57] has anyone seen the video "walking in stations" that is on youtube? Don't remember exactly what was on there but I think two characters walk up to a Zealot or another Omen class ship and it is JUST HUUUGE!!! The ships in this game outsize anything any of us have seen. You can also compare sizes with a screen art that was made a while back with all of the ships (at the time) and at the bottom there was a size marker using the Eiffel Tower and something else? (white house?). These ships are HUGE. We don't have shields IRL so we can't compare it to anything.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:56:00 - [58] Quote: Or am I missing something here? I.E: Frigate -> Destroyer Cruiser -> Battlecruiser Battleship -> ??? You might perhaps be thinking of things back to front. Instead perhaps this works better: Rookieship -> Frigate Destroyer -> Cruiser Battlecruiser -> Battleship Rather than the destroyer being a superclass of frigates it becomes a subclass of cruisers and so on - then you have (moderately) appropriate vessels for each primary class. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Diomidis Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 12:41:00 - [59] Why should there be something bigger than a BS and smaller than a Dread anyways? To do what? Have more Dps than current BSes? That could be done with a Tier IV BS line or sth... Have more slots? Ain't and should not happen...lag would ruin everything. Marauders and 100% bonuses gave a solution to that, as the effects are similar to an imaginary hull with 50-60% more hi-slots. Still the server has to throw the dices less times when those weapons fire. What abilities should that >BS class have then? ** In RL things have changed: Battleships where created in order to accommodate more or bigger projectile guns. They thought that conventionally weaponry could not break em. The German super-battleships died to tops and planes when they where seriously outnumbered by smaller enemies. Modern explosives and off-course missiles which can strike with extreme precision launched by way smaller vessels like Destroyers or Aircraft, boosting highly explosive or even Nuclear warheads made clear that nothing is invulnerable, and size cannot insure higher survivability nor firepower. Carriers are big to accommodate more planes and their aged nuclear reactors. Modern Nuclear powered vessels and subs can launch more punch with missiles, requiring less fuel, less man-power, less moving costs and draw way less attenction. USA's carriers are used more in order to show-off and scare other nations, not for really practical reasons. In EVE's world, a single Stealth Bomber (or even a Kestrel) could carry and launch a single "fusion/nuclear" missile that could obliterate even the biggest capital ship, but in EVE's world we got imaginary force-field shields and light-fast nanites that repair things in order to sustain the "magical" fairy tail. Plz do not confuse RL and EVE in order to ruin the magic. Join the Biggest Greek Corp!** www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Rellana DAB THE VILLAGE PE0PLE	Posted - 2008.05.25 12:01:00 - [60] Hoe about the "escort" class of ship eg a escort carrier that would be a smaller,less versatile carrier,equipped for escorting it's bigger brother into battle..

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