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Qduhaf
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:21:00 -
[1]
Since we all know blobbing is going to be the result of FW, can we agree there needs to be a mechanism for establishing instance combat within a FW area. I'd propose that there be 4-man, 8-man and 24-man gang sizes, with shiptypes limited to frigs, cruiser, bc, bs and mixed for both t1 and t2. So 10 different groupings (3 sizes, 5 ship categories)
A ranking ladder with monthly prizes for top corp and pilots in each faction and each. maybe 1B for each of the top 40 corps a month (10 groupings, 4 factions) and a faction ship for each of the 40 top pilots.
This would both provide incentive for participating in FW PVP and keep it fun. You would still need to traverse FW regions to participate, but ince in the instanced combat zones you wouldn't have to worry about 10 carriers hot dropping, a titan DD or even a 50 man GS frig blob. Nor with 24 man gang would you think lag would be an important factor.
For sake of conversation instancing means that this :combat arena" would only be open to the 2 gangs that are participating.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:23:00 -
[2]
The whole point is that this is real PVP, still. It's not "PVP-lite", concessions therefore aren't to be made to make things fair or safe.
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Qduhaf
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:26:00 -
[3]
does fun mean anything in a game?
without ship number limitations, here is how it will progress:
1) wow I really like FW, I can find a fight now without doing 30 jumps in 0.0
2) wow, I lost a fight. Guess its harder to kill a pvp gang than a ratting raven
3) if I am going to PVP, i need to bring more people to make sure I win. Lets get a gang of 10 together
4) wow, me and my buddies lost our gang of 4 to 10 man gang, I need to bring 15 friends next time
5) wow my gang of 10 lost to gang of 15, I need to bring 25 next time
6) damn I don't know 40 people that I can get together to even have a chance to fight that gang of 25. Guess I will go back to hi-sec and do more of those missions
7) it takes hours to get gang of 50 together and even after we do all i find are noobs flying solo rifters/caracals/drakes/ravens. FW PvP is as boring as 0.0 Guess I will just go back and seige some posses, or gate camp M-O.
this is a game and should be fun. If you want to treat this like the real world then stay in 0.0 and fight the alliance wars that take months to unfold and are filled with hours of tedium and a series of one-sided battles determined by blob size and NAPS. Make FW fun PVP as a complement and alternative to what already happens on 0.0.
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Luh Windan
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:27:00 -
[4]
I don;t think that blobs are inevitable out come at all. Having had a look at singularity - this is PvP on tap. There is so much more opportunity for it that a lot of people will be in for the excitement and chaos of it. Slowly arranged fleets are not going to hold that much sway.
I think that a certain size of gang - easy to organize, easy to mobilize will emerge and that will be the natural limit.
Lets face it. You get a choice of
a) slowly organized laggy blob
b) fast moving free for all - fast to get into, fun to get into
how many people are really going to be choosing a
I guess if you don't play for fun you might want a
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:28:00 -
[5]
Terrible idea.
This isnt wow in space (yet).
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Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:28:00 -
[6]
Basically what you're asking for is the Alliance Tournament that runs all the time, right?
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Qduhaf
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:34:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Qduhaf on 21/05/2008 19:35:08
 Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Basically what you're asking for is the Alliance Tournament that runs all the time, right?
in a way, but you would still need to travel through the FW contested areas to arrive at the "arena" and the outcome of the PVP action would still factor in the FW outcomes
It would also be a way for more people to become involved in corp development, FCing, etc. I see it as a way to grow the game in a PVP way, not in a PVE/WOW way (even though I have never played that game or any other MMO besides EVE)
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Ecky X
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:34:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ecky X on 21/05/2008 19:34:55
I wonder what a "blob" of T1 Cruiser sized limited ships would be like. 30 or 40 Caracals, with osprey support, nano bellicoses, spider-tanked Vexors and Arbitrators...
It may not even be a bad thing.
Remember that most cruisers are oriented toward close-range combat, and thus you'll not have ships instapopping on both sides.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:48:00 -
[9]
or go test it, it's blob free other than the whole camping a deadspace gate...
if you want to camp just one of 5 in a systemt hat see.
also it only takes 2 ships to take a control point. one tanks the other sits there, DONE, NEXT!
why would you blob your forces?
please come test it stop commenting on something you know nothing about.
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Qduhaf
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:51:00 -
[10]
there are neve blobs on Sisi, why would you expect there to be now!
PvP on Sisi is always available, but never busy because it is without consequences or rewards.
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Kweel Nakashyn
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:53:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 21/05/2008 19:55:20
Originally by: Qduhaf
instanced combat zones
no
Originally by: Qduhaf
For sake of conversation instancing means that this :combat arena" would only be open to the 2 gangs that are participating.
Why do you put twice this thread on the boards. EvE's design is "everybody plays in the same world" since the start. A lot of people actually plays the game just for this detail.
The fact we are all sharing the same history, culture, politics and future in the same world... A lot of people don't want the game to have X-File's X dimention where people can't be reached from the (unique) outer world.
Factional Warfare is not "let's play the game a little, shoot around, then come back in my hauling ship without any danger" : a fw player will sign to be shoot on sight like in low-sec / 0.0 by any guy that is at war with your side (if I understood well).
-edit- by the way there is no capship in 0.5+ so if you fear them, don't go under this mark... Your choice, really...
I don't understand : by this design you want things to be fair. Eve is not meant to be fair, it's meant to be cold, hard, brutal.
2isk
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Cailais
VITOC
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:54:00 -
[12]
1. They are not instanced areas. An 'instance' is an area which is seperate from the universe and typically is replicated multiple times over for different groups.
2. The site are accesible to all - you do not have to sign up to FW to enter the objective sites. You can scan ships which are in these sites. Only some sites are restricted by ship class: many are not.
Please read the dev blogs or log onto the test server before making uninformed and factually incorrect statements.
C.
VITOC - Amarr Corp for Faction Warfare! |
Luh Windan
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Qduhaf
there are neve blobs on Sisi, why would you expect there to be now!
PvP on Sisi is always available, but never busy because it is without consequences or rewards.
So basically you are not interested in how it does actually work - because you *know* how it really works and would like it fixed (despite there being a) no evidence of a problem and b) lots of good reasons why blobbing will not be a problem.
And this is such a burning issue for you that you started two threads about it.
okaaaaay - got the picture
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Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Qduhaf
in a way, but you would still need to travel through the FW contested areas to arrive at the "arena" and the outcome of the PVP action would still factor in the FW outcomes
I can see how you want to make PvP into a more controlled and 'fair' experience, rather like the Alliance Tournament only occuring more frequently. I have to say that, aside from feeling that the developers' time could be much better spent elsewhere, I don't think it's an entirely bad idea as long as it's run the same way as the AT and has real in-game consequences (i.e. you have to pay for the ships you use, you really lose them if they pop, etc.).
However, remember that the 'W' in 'FW' stands for Warfare. Fairness is a wonderful quality, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with war. Doing this to Factional Warfare would be roughly the same as having two generals duel with pistols at dawn to determine the outcome of the war. Not a good idea in my book.
No, PvP for Factional Warfare has to stay exactly the same as it is now as far as game mechanics goes. New regions, militias, FW related deadspace objectives, etc. should be incentive enough to get people on-board and having fun.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:03:00 -
[15]
It's generally considered bad form to start a new almost identical thread when you don't like the responses in your old one.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Qduhaf
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cailais
1. They are not instanced areas. An 'instance' is an area which is seperate from the universe and typically is replicated multiple times over for different groups.
2. The site are accesible to all - you do not have to sign up to FW to enter the objective sites. You can scan ships which are in these sites. Only some sites are restricted by ship class: many are not.
Please read the dev blogs or log onto the test server before making uninformed and factually incorrect statements.
C.
my discussion is on creating instanced areas for FW to allow for alliance tournament like PVP, not that they already are.
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Qduhaf
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Originally by: Qduhaf
in a way, but you would still need to travel through the FW contested areas to arrive at the "arena" and the outcome of the PVP action would still factor in the FW outcomes
I can see how you want to make PvP into a more controlled and 'fair' experience, rather like the Alliance Tournament only occuring more frequently. I have to say that, aside from feeling that the developers' time could be much better spent elsewhere, I don't think it's an entirely bad idea as long as it's run the same way as the AT and has real in-game consequences (i.e. you have to pay for the ships you use, you really lose them if they pop, etc.).
However, remember that the 'W' in 'FW' stands for Warfare. Fairness is a wonderful quality, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with war. Doing this to Factional Warfare would be roughly the same as having two generals duel with pistols at dawn to determine the outcome of the war. Not a good idea in my book.
No, PvP for Factional Warfare has to stay exactly the same as it is now as far as game mechanics goes. New regions, militias, FW related deadspace objectives, etc. should be incentive enough to get people on-board and having fun.
I'd argue that EVE is a game, and CCP is a company. Making "war" accessible is both good for the game and the company, and if it drove signficant subscribers CCP might even be able to hire the developers to fix the lag that is preventing the real wars from being enjoyable.
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Hannobaal
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:08:00 -
[18]
This is not an fps. It is about so much more than just the simple fighting itself. There's absolutely no reason that battles should allways be fair.
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Faife
Noctiscion
Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:12:00 -
[19]
Seriously, I was trying to figure out why my post disappeared.
So let me reiterate: this is an awful awful idea. And I'm generally on the side of going overboard with protecting people from ganking.
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Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Qduhaf
I'd argue that EVE is a game, and CCP is a company. Making "war" accessible is both good for the game and the company, and if it drove signficant subscribers CCP might even be able to hire the developers to fix the lag that is preventing the real wars from being enjoyable.
A valid point, but one that goes against everything EvE has always been designed around. One game, one universe, one server; everyone plays together and can do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want. It doesn't always appeal to the masses, but it's what makes EvE so wonderful.
--------------------
"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:17:00 -
[21]
you didn't answer why people will blob when two ships are all that's needed to win.
Also timers go no faster with more ships.
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Nikkan Synn
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:22:00 -
[22]
I dont like the idea it sounds like WoW in space every other MMO has arenas EVE Online is unique because it's not WoWified.
CCP/EVE keeps it gankster
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