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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Xparky
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.22 12:21:00 -
[1]
Small ships (let's take an interceptor for example) accelerate and decelerate into/from warp at the same rate as a battleship.
I'm NOT talking about ALIGN+GET INTO WARP speeds, but the actual time it takes to get from "get into warp" speed (75% ship speed) to full warp speed (13.5 AU/s).
In systems with a small radius the advantage of having high warp speed is almost nullified because the acceleration and deceleration rates into/from warp are the same for all ships.
The idea is to have small ships accelerate and decelerate faster. What do you think?
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.05.22 12:52:00 -
[2]
It's a reasonable idea, and lots of people have proposed it, but one problem with it is that it would lead to lots of interceptor pilots being stuck at gates, waiting to jump out of systems after crossing them in less than 30 seconds. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Zeph Solaris
Legitimate Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.22 12:59:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro It's a reasonable idea, and lots of people have proposed it, but one problem with it is that it would lead to lots of interceptor pilots being stuck at gates, waiting to jump out of systems after crossing them in less than 30 seconds.
When you warp with a fleet, your speed is the same as the slowest ship.
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 13:18:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 22/05/2008 14:18:43 The thought never really crossed my mind.
If you could give hard data that proves your claim is true, definitely may be a topic of discussion.
Goal Line Blitz, an American Football MMO |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.05.22 13:33:00 -
[5]
I can confirm that the OP is correct, and you can easily test it yourself - all ships take 10 seconds to reach full warp speed, and 20 to slow down again before dropping out of warp. A 13.5au/s interceptor will barely even reach full speed during a 30au warp, much less stay there. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Papa Ina
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 13:36:00 -
[6]
Something I've never even considered before. If you are that interceptor and you're being chased by a competent HAC if you are right they would both hit the gate in a short warp at the same time despite the Inti's higher warp speed? Is that what you are saying?
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Flow Befort
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:10:00 -
[7]
this is correct, you see it all the time.
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Nicholas Barker
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:28:00 -
[8]
evidence:
go into warp (not a gang warp) as the same time as another larger ship (it happens a lot) you'll notice the ship is still there as you are accelerating to your top warp speed, but then disappears once you hit your top speed, because he's going a lot slower then you once you're in your warps "cruising" speed. ---
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Papa Ina
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:33:00 -
[9]
Is there statistics anywhere to show the number of gate to gate jumps where this is a relevant problem? Sometimes your super quick ship should have a disadvantage but we should see if it's out of balance before going nuts on what I personally see as a minor issue.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:47:00 -
[10]
Why should this be an issue ?
Warp mechanics from the background work different as thruster movement. IMO there is no property of the interceptor or battleship that would have any effect on the warp accel/deaccel speed.
The only thing that is puzzling is different top warp speed of different ship classes. It should actualy be the same for all :-)
What I am missing in the initial post is any reasoning WHY smaller craft should have better warp acceleration. Top warp speed is not a factor as there are more differencies than just ship class.
Seems this forum will turn into a worse copy of Features and Ideas. At least people try to reason some posts there. Have not seen one yet in this forum. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka Why should this be an issue ?
Because low warp distances mean that smaller and more agile ships are not significantly more maneuverable than larger ships.
This limits their effectiveness when not nano'd since larger ships have no trouble joining the fight.
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Papa Ina
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Goumindong Because low warp distances mean that smaller and more agile ships are not significantly more maneuverable than larger ships.
This limits their effectiveness when not nano'd since larger ships have no trouble joining the fight.
And why is that an issue, they already get aligned faster. They will warp faster over longer distances and they still have their speed advantages in a fight.
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Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:56:00 -
[13]
I believe the logic is that there is no advantage to a fast warp speed in most situations because in all but the longest warps most of the time spent in warp is spent accelerating and decelerating rather than traveling at your top warp speed. The two classes of intys are seperated into 9 AU/s and 13.5 AU/s and yet there is no discernible difference (read: it's less than the variance in time taken to load an empty grid on different connections/computers) in travel times in almost all cases.
This can clearly be seen by the fact that NO ONE fits the warp speed rigs.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:58:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 22/05/2008 15:03:04
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Hugh Ruka Why should this be an issue ?
Because low warp distances mean that smaller and more agile ships are not significantly more maneuverable than larger ships.
This limits their effectiveness when not nano'd since larger ships have no trouble joining the fight.
This would make sense if we had system spaning 100s of AUs. However in sub 30AU warps the difference is mainly in getting into warp. I did not run actual numbers by this but that's about the feel I get when flying.
You are discarding the aligning time here. Small ships already have an advantage there as well as in top warp speed.
EDIT:
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I can confirm that the OP is correct, and you can easily test it yourself - all ships take 10 seconds to reach full warp speed, and 20 to slow down again before dropping out of warp. A 13.5au/s interceptor will barely even reach full speed during a 30au warp, much less stay there.
If this is true, then small ships already do accelerate faster while in warp.
13.5AU/sec / 10 sec = 1.35 AU/sec2 1.5AU/sec / 10sec = 0.15 AU/sec2
I have to test this when in spare time. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
This would make sense if we had system spaning 100s of AUs. However in sub 30AU warps the difference is mainly in getting into warp. I did not run actual numbers by this but that's about the feel I get when flying.
You are discarding the aligning time here. Small ships already have an advantage there as well as in top warp speed.
Yes, he is saying the align time difference is too small essentially.
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Tusko Hopkins
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:31:00 -
[16]
I am for it, it is not trivial to outrun a hauler in 0.0 if you dont know where it is heading to. You lose more time determining its warpoff direction then what you gain from the warp speed difference (because of acceleration)
First alternate to CSM.
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Arshes Nei
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:02:00 -
[17]
I support this, faster align speed means nothing if ships prealign. The whole point of higher warp speed for certain ships is so that they are faster in warp, not faster aligning.
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:18:00 -
[18]
Would be nice. |
Pliauga
Militek Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.27 07:47:00 -
[19]
I'm signing this only because I want a dev coment.
This could be easilly explained fiction wise that entering warp uses the same mechanic for all ships. Due to the same principle used by warp drives of all races/ship sizes.
I don't see this as a major issue, would be nice though.
---------- DRONE love rulez!! 'mkay?! LONG range/"OUT OF SYSTEM" artillery |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.05.27 07:53:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
This would make sense if we had system spaning 100s of AUs. However in sub 30AU warps the difference is mainly in getting into warp. I did not run actual numbers by this but that's about the feel I get when flying.
You are discarding the aligning time here. Small ships already have an advantage there as well as in top warp speed.
Yes, he is saying the align time difference is too small essentially.
Well as I said, we either need to decrease warp speed or increase system distances ...in small systems even the accell time will make very little difference. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.27 17:45:00 -
[21]
I never really thought about this, but if your data is correct, your fix makes good sense. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Cpt Striker
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Posted - 2008.05.27 18:25:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Cpt Striker on 27/05/2008 18:26:56
Im not sure the issue is really being expressed clearly here.
Smaller ships (those with higher warp speeds) Already accelerate/deccelerate faster, in warp, than larger, slower warping ships.
If it takes a constant 10 seconds to reach full warp speed for all ships and a constant 20 seconds to deccelerate from full warp speed for all ships, then it logically follows that those ships with a higher warp speed will be accelerating and deccelerating faster.
I hope i am correct in thinking that the real issue here is the hard locked 30 seconds of acceleration/decceleration. Perhaps if this period of acceleration/decceleration were lowered, maybe even for all ships, for ease of programming or whatever, then those with the faster warp speed would be allowed more opportunity to benefit from their advantage.
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Che Biko
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Posted - 2008.05.27 19:37:00 -
[23]
Makes sense.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.05.28 18:33:00 -
[24]
I'm all for it. Anything that gives people a reason to use smaller ships instead of capitals is good, in my opinion. A frigate should accelerate to full warp speed and drop out of warp much faster than a battleship. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.28 18:38:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 28/05/2008 18:38:00 makes sense, happy to support this issue.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Xparky
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.28 18:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 28/05/2008 18:38:00 makes sense, happy to support this issue.
Glad I voted for you
Also posting to support my own idea.
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Czanthria
Ad Astra Vexillum
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Posted - 2008.05.30 01:57:00 -
[27]
Better physics is always a good thing. -- Knowledge is Power! |
Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.30 03:15:00 -
[28]
Shuttles, especially, should be super quick... moving people around quickly is their only purpose, in fact.
---------------- [insert signature here] |
Siebenthal
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Posted - 2008.07.15 13:18:00 -
[29]
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Opertone
SIEGE. The Border Patrol
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Posted - 2008.08.17 17:56:00 -
[30]
must be done so!
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