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Bish Ounen Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.22 19:49:00 - [1] Ok. So we have these neat little ships called "Stealth Bombers" They can cloak, and can fit a bunch of cruise missile launchers. For the longest time almost nobody used them. Why? Two reasons: 1) They actually used Cruise missiles, not bombs. 2) Due to cruise missile mechanics, you had to stay on location, with the target locked, for the missile to hit. 3) Because of #2, and the relative fragility of the SB, the SB would almost always be popped before doing any damage. 4) Because of all this, hardly anyone ever uses the SB. Well dang. What a waste of a ship. THEN CCP released a new weapon: BOMBS! \/ The bombs did a pile of damage, and looked to really improve the lot of stealth bombers. Unfortunately: 1) Bombs use the same locking mechanics of missiles. 2) Bombs are incredibly expensive to manufacture (roughly 8 million ISK per bomb in manufacturing costs ALONE as of today) 3) Bombs are an AOE weapon, and have a remarkably short flight-time, meaning the bomb user has a good chance of hitting friendlies (and themselves) with the bomb. 4) Because bombs are unguided, one has to aim one's ship at the target for the bomb to strike true. They also have to get right on top of the target before launching. 5) Because of all this, hardly anyone ever uses the SB. Hmmm... Anyone seeing a problem here? The Bomb, the supposed savior of the Stealth Bomber, the weapon that would make the Stealth Bomber a viable platform for anti-blob and anti-BS frigate action, has turned out to be a dud. Yes, there are niche applications for SB's (large group bombing runs on static gate camp fleets, for example) But they are little used due to the expense of the bombs and the high failure rate for even experienced SB pilots. The Bomb needs to be rethought and retooled. I suggest the following changes to Bomb mechanics. 1) Bring manufacturing costs in-line with other weapons of similar damage potential. The Bomb does roughly the same amount of AOE damage as a large Smartie. Yet even T2 large Smarties cost just a few million ISK. Bombs should be less expensive by a factor of 5-10. 2) Change the Bomb flight mechanics to be more "bomb" like. Allow SB users to warp in, select a target or targets, release the bomb in it's flight path, and warp out. The bomb then should CONTINUE IN IT'S FLIGHT and detonate upon either striking an enemy ship, getting within a certain proximity of a ship, or after it's 15 second fuse expires. This is regardless of the presence of the SB that launched it. That's right, the SB can warp away and the bomb will still hit. 3) Allow SB users to fit more than a single bomb launcher. What good is a SINGLE bomb going to do? What good are the other high-slots of you can't fit launchers into them? One should be able to fit a full rack of bombs on your bomber. These 3 simple changes would make both Bomb use and Bombers MUCH more viable in combat. However, as the bomb has a very short fuse, and has minimal guidance (you have to aim your ship at the target, no bombs making u-turns in space.) it is still very limited in scope and using an SB has a high risk-level associated with it. This prevents bombs and bombers from becoming overpowered. Thoughts? Suggestions? Flames? Free ISK because I'm just so sexy?
Triksterism Image Not Found	Posted - 2008.05.22 19:50:00 - [2] Edited by: Triksterism on 22/05/2008 19:51:02 Originally by: Bish Ounen Ok. So we have these neat little ships called "Stealth Bombers" They can cloak, and can fit a bunch of cruise missile launchers. For the longest time almost nobody used them. Why? Two reasons: 1) They actually used Cruise missiles, not bombs. 2) Due to cruise missile mechanics, you had to stay on location, with the target locked, for the missile to hit. 3) Because of #2, and the relative fragility of the SB, the SB would almost always be popped before doing any damage. 4) Because of all this, hardly anyone ever uses the SB. Well dang. What a waste of a ship. THEN CCP released a new weapon: BOMBS! \/ The bombs did a pile of damage, and looked to really improve the lot of stealth bombers. Unfortunately: 1) Bombs use the same locking mechanics of missiles. 2) Bombs are incredibly expensive to manufacture (roughly 8 million ISK per bomb in manufacturing costs ALONE as of today) 3) Bombs are an AOE weapon, and have a remarkably short flight-time, meaning the bomb user has a good chance of hitting friendlies (and themselves) with the bomb. 4) Because bombs are unguided, one has to aim one's ship at the target for the bomb to strike true. They also have to get right on top of the target before launching. 5) Because of all this, hardly anyone ever uses the SB. Hmmm... Anyone seeing a problem here? The Bomb, the supposed savior of the Stealth Bomber, the weapon that would make the Stealth Bomber a viable platform for anti-blob and anti-BS frigate action, has turned out to be a dud. Yes, there are niche applications for SB's (large group bombing runs on static gate camp fleets, for example) But they are little used due to the expense of the bombs and the high failure rate for even experienced SB pilots. The Bomb needs to be rethought and retooled. I suggest the following changes to Bomb mechanics. 1) Bring manufacturing costs in-line with other weapons of similar damage potential. The Bomb does roughly the same amount of AOE damage as a large Smartie. Yet even T2 large Smarties cost just a few million ISK. Bombs should be less expensive by a factor of 5-10. 2) Change the Bomb flight mechanics to be more "bomb" like. Allow SB users to warp in, select a target or targets, release the bomb in it's flight path, and warp out. The bomb then should CONTINUE IN IT'S FLIGHT and detonate upon either striking an enemy ship, getting within a certain proximity of a ship, or after it's 15 second fuse expires. This is regardless of the presence of the SB that launched it. That's right, the SB can warp away and the bomb will still hit. 3) Allow SB users to fit more than a single bomb launcher. What good is a SINGLE bomb going to do? What good are the other high-slots of you can't fit launchers into them? One should be able to fit a full rack of bombs on your bomber. These 3 simple changes would make both Bomb use and Bombers MUCH more viable in combat. However, as the bomb has a very short fuse, and has minimal guidance (you have to aim your ship at the target, no bombs making u-turns in space.) it is still very limited in scope and using an SB has a high risk-level associated with it. This prevents bombs and bombers from becoming overpowered. Thoughts? Suggestions? Flames? Free ISK because I'm just so sexy? In response to your top list: sensor dampners. Also missile velocity rigs. ---------------------------------------
Bish Ounen Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.22 19:52:00 - [3] Edited by: Bish Ounen on 22/05/2008 19:55:46 Originally by: Triksterism In response to your top list: sensor dampners. Also missile velocity rigs. ??? Care to elaborate? EDIT: Never mind. You're just trolling. Sensor damps and missile rigs still don't help. If they did, we'd see way more SB's in use than we do. SB is hardly ever used, your solutions don't help, and you don't address the topic of my post. Begone troll.
Triksterism Image Not Found	Posted - 2008.05.22 19:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Bish Ounen Edited by: Bish Ounen on 22/05/2008 19:55:46 Originally by: Triksterism In response to your top list: sensor dampners. Also missile velocity rigs. ??? Care to elaborate? EDIT: Never mind. You're just trolling. Sensor damps and missile rigs still don't help. If they did, we'd see way more SB's in use than we do. SB is hardly ever used, your solutions don't help, and you don't address the topic of my post. Begone troll. Im not trolling. I'm serious. I haven't experienced the above 'issues' with my manticore with said modifications. Also note I fly in lowsec, not nullsec meaning I can't use the bombs anyways. There is a LOT of fun to be had with SBs. Get a super tanked t1 cruiser with basic mining lasers, plop it at a belt, have it fake mine while you and your buddies (In SBs of course) sit cloaked 70k away. A mix of sensor boosters, dampners, missile velocity rigs and target painters make for a lot of dead ships ---------------------------------------
Winterblink Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:01:00 - [5] The biggest most common reason nobody touches bombs is the ridiculous price on the bombs themselves. That's always, hands down, the #1 reason why nobody even touches this. As for the rest of your list I can do nothing but agree for the most part. I'm not so picky on the single bomb mechanic, it encourages you to work with others (it's SO not mean to be a solo gankmobile). warp drive active \| nature vraie
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:04:00 - [6] Originally by: Triksterism Im not trolling. I'm serious. I haven't experienced the above 'issues' with my manticore with said modifications. Also note I fly in lowsec, not nullsec meaning I can't use the bombs anyways. There is a LOT of fun to be had with SBs. Get a super tanked t1 cruiser with basic mining lasers, plop it at a belt, have it fake mine while you and your buddies (In SBs of course) sit cloaked 70k away. A mix of sensor boosters, dampners, missile velocity rigs and target painters make for a lot of dead ships accurate. sit far away, put 2 damps on. bombs could use a change though.
Bish Ounen Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Triksterism Originally by: Bish Ounen Edited by: Bish Ounen on 22/05/2008 19:55:46 Originally by: Triksterism In response to your top list: sensor dampners. Also missile velocity rigs. ??? Care to elaborate? EDIT: Never mind. You're just trolling. Sensor damps and missile rigs still don't help. If they did, we'd see way more SB's in use than we do. SB is hardly ever used, your solutions don't help, and you don't address the topic of my post. Begone troll. Im not trolling. I'm serious. I haven't experienced the above 'issues' with my manticore with said modifications. Also note I fly in lowsec, not nullsec meaning I can't use the bombs anyways. There is a LOT of fun to be had with SBs. Get a super tanked t1 cruiser with basic mining lasers, plop it at a belt, have it fake mine while you and your buddies (In SBs of course) sit cloaked 70k away. A mix of sensor boosters, dampners, missile velocity rigs and target painters make for a lot of dead ships Ah. Ok. Sorry about that then. It also explains why you haven't run into the issues I describe. As a tool for picking off single ships or tiny groups, it currently excels. Particularly in the "wolf pack" setup. But that is, again, a niche use. It's almost useless in Fleet combat, where the Bomb is designed to be used. (As a launched AOE weapon, CCP has said the bomb is designed to be "anti-blob".) If the weapon is "anti-blob", but the ONLY ship that can use it can't be used effectively against a blob, what good is the weapon? Thus, the bomb changes I recommend. Doesn't change a thing about the cruise missile use of the ship, so you can still use it in your lowsec wolfpack, but it makes it viable for fleet combat.
Bish Ounen Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Winterblink The biggest most common reason nobody touches bombs is the ridiculous price on the bombs themselves. That's always, hands down, the #1 reason why nobody even touches this. As for the rest of your list I can do nothing but agree for the most part. I'm not so picky on the single bomb mechanic, it encourages you to work with others (it's SO not mean to be a solo gankmobile). Absolutely agreed on the price. it's INSANE. Also, I'm not entirely wedded to the multiple launcher concept. Just thought it made sense.
Winterblink Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Bish Ounen Absolutely agreed on the price. it's INSANE. Also, I'm not entirely wedded to the multiple launcher concept. Just thought it made sense. I'd say they should get the concept right with a single bomb on a frigate-sized craft, then sort out a medium-sized ship class (maybe a T2 tier-2 battlecruiser?) that can handle more than one bomb module. Bomber Hyperion? At any rate, the concept needs some tweaking as it is, before it moves onward. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Bish Ounen Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Bish Ounen Absolutely agreed on the price. it's INSANE. Also, I'm not entirely wedded to the multiple launcher concept. Just thought it made sense. I'd say they should get the concept right with a single bomb on a frigate-sized craft, then sort out a medium-sized ship class (maybe a T2 tier-2 battlecruiser?) that can handle more than one bomb module. Bomber Hyperion? At any rate, the concept needs some tweaking as it is, before it moves onward. Agreed. Bombs absolutely need a revamp. Hmm.. Tier 2 T2 BC bomber... Bomber Myrm then? THAT would be interesting to see.
Winterblink Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Bish Ounen Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Bish Ounen Absolutely agreed on the price. it's INSANE. Also, I'm not entirely wedded to the multiple launcher concept. Just thought it made sense. I'd say they should get the concept right with a single bomb on a frigate-sized craft, then sort out a medium-sized ship class (maybe a T2 tier-2 battlecruiser?) that can handle more than one bomb module. Bomber Myrmidon? At any rate, the concept needs some tweaking as it is, before it moves onward. Agreed. Bombs absolutely need a revamp. Hmm.. Tier 2 T2 BC bomber... Bomber Myrm then? THAT would be interesting to see. Oh duh, meant Myrmidon. My bad, mistype, tired, work boring, wanna go home. stealth edit warp drive active \| nature vraie
Tyrantus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:43:00 - [12] Hmmm. I though that when bombs are used en mas they cause major lag like fof missiles and thats why they came prenerfed? Future Member Of The Imperial 24th
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:44:00 - [13] OP: I like your ideas, and would like to add some others to the discussion. 1) Allow Stealth Bombers to maintain a target while cloaked. Still wouldn't be able to fire while cloaked or target while cloaked, but would enable a lot more hit and run actions that would be valuable in fleet warfare. 2) Introduce cruise missiles/bombs that are capable of homing in on a target painted by another ship. This would be allow the stealth bombers to hit and run while the targeting ship tanks the counter fire. 3) Introduce fire and forget missiles/bombs. Uncloak, target, fire, re-cloak - target still gets hit. #1 and #3 fit most closely to my conception of what a Stealth Bomber should be able to do, but #2 might be a better choice strictly due to game balance issues.
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:48:00 - [14] Originally by: Bish Ounen 1) Bombs use the same locking mechanics of missiles. I didn't know that. Why is that, CCP? ---------------- [insert signature here]
Bish Ounen Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Shadow Joy OP: I like your ideas, and would like to add some others to the discussion. 1) Allow Stealth Bombers to maintain a target while cloaked. Still wouldn't be able to fire while cloaked or target while cloaked, but would enable a lot more hit and run actions that would be valuable in fleet warfare. 2) Introduce cruise missiles/bombs that are capable of homing in on a target painted by another ship. This would be allow the stealth bombers to hit and run while the targeting ship tanks the counter fire. 3) Introduce fire and forget missiles/bombs. Uncloak, target, fire, re-cloak - target still gets hit. #1 and #3 fit most closely to my conception of what a Stealth Bomber should be able to do, but #2 might be a better choice strictly due to game balance issues. Well, I'm hesitant to do anything that would change the function of cruise missiles. Not because I think your ideas are bad, but because there are OTHER ships that can and do use cruise missiles. Changing cruise mechanics would severely alter ship and game balance in not very good ways. So let's stick with bomb-related ideas for now.
Haurian Commando RoflingChairmanMao	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:01:00 - [16] Seen that vid on youtube with Ushra'Khan & friends all in bombers spamming missiles at a CVA dread while they shoot a POS? Now say bombers are useless :) --- My Mod autograph collection. Mods, please sign here! --- Please transfer the agreed amount to my Swiss bank account - Mitnal
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:04:00 - [17] Edited by: Haradgrim on 22/05/2008 21:05:12 The problem with most of your suggestions is the fact that when you look at the impact in an aggregate sense, they would make a small force of Bombers extremely overpowered. If 5 bombers could warp in, and drop 3 x 5 bombs and not be able to be locked and have risk of being destroyed by their own bombs then you would have one hell-o of an overpowered ship. Bombers are unbelievably effective when used in large numbers, especially with a little bit of frigate sized support and a dictor. 20 x 3 x cruise missile = absurd alpha. Sensor boosters + Sensor Dampeners + decent missile skills will make it pretty hard for anyone to kill you. Edit: though I do agree bombs should be 33.33% of the cost they are currently (material wise) -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:09:00 - [18] Edited by: Shadow Joy on 22/05/2008 21:10:44 Originally by: Bish Ounen ... Well, I'm hesitant to do anything that would change the function of cruise missiles. Not because I think your ideas are bad, but because there are OTHER ships that can and do use cruise missiles. Changing cruise mechanics would severely alter ship and game balance in not very good ways. So let's stick with bomb-related ideas for now. Then I offer this two part idea: Change bombs so they don't travel at all. Instead they stay where they are dropped. They then explode a pre-set amount of time later (for the sake of argument let's say 30 seconds). Then allow Stealth Bombers (and only Stealth Bombers) to drop bombs while cloaked. A certain degree of skill would be required to use this tactic effectively, but I can see it being moderately effective against a blob. Especially if a coordinated Stealth attack bracketed the area. I am not completely familiar with how siege mode works, but I also think this variation would be very effective against Dreadnoughts.
Bish Ounen Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:12:00 - [19] Originally by: Haradgrim Edited by: Haradgrim on 22/05/2008 21:05:12 The problem with most of your suggestions is the fact that when you look at the impact in an aggregate sense, they would make a small force of Bombers extremely overpowered. If 5 bombers could warp in, and drop 3 x 5 bombs and not be able to be locked and have risk of being destroyed by their own bombs then you would have one hell-o of an overpowered ship. Bombers are unbelievably effective when used in large numbers, especially with a little bit of frigate sized support and a dictor. 20 x 3 x cruise missile = absurd alpha. Sensor boosters + Sensor Dampeners + decent missile skills will make it pretty hard for anyone to kill you. Edit: though I do agree bombs should be 33.33% of the cost they are currently (material wise) I agree, it could be overpowered. Keep in mind though, the bomb is still a short range weapon, and still has no guidance. But if you think it's that much of a problem, then drop the "more than one launcher" suggestion. As I noted in an easlier post, I'm not wedded to that particular item. I'll amend my original post to reflect that, just so there isn't any further misunderstanding.
Alyth Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:19:00 - [20] Originally by: Shadow Joy Edited by: Shadow Joy on 22/05/2008 21:10:44 Originally by: Bish Ounen ... Well, I'm hesitant to do anything that would change the function of cruise missiles. Not because I think your ideas are bad, but because there are OTHER ships that can and do use cruise missiles. Changing cruise mechanics would severely alter ship and game balance in not very good ways. So let's stick with bomb-related ideas for now. Then I offer this two part idea: Change bombs so they don't travel at all. Instead they stay where they are dropped. They then explode a pre-set amount of time later (for the sake of argument let's say 30 seconds). Then allow Stealth Bombers (and only Stealth Bombers) to drop bombs while cloaked. A certain degree of skill would be required to use this tactic effectively, but I can see it being moderately effective against a blob. Especially if a coordinated Stealth attack bracketed the area. I am not completely familiar with how siege mode works, but I also think this variation would be very effective against Dreadnoughts. I don't agree with being able to drop them while cloaked for two reasons, the first and most obvious being that would be immensely overpowered along the same lines as giving them covert ops cloaks. Second reason being you'd lose your bomber pretty much every time due to them being slow as ass even under their cloak, I like stealth bombing but I am allergic to suicide bombing. I like the idea of making them more like probes though, I think it would add a new degree of skill and tactics into the mix. You'd have to work your way up close without being detected, decloak, plant the bomb and get the hell out of dodge. Much more interesting method than point, shoot and pray it hits.
Diziet Montoya	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:19:00 - [21] You don't need to lock target to fire a bomb. They are extremely effective when used correctly, you are doing it wrong.
Bish Ounen Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Shadow Joy Edited by: Shadow Joy on 22/05/2008 21:10:44 Originally by: Bish Ounen ... Well, I'm hesitant to do anything that would change the function of cruise missiles. Not because I think your ideas are bad, but because there are OTHER ships that can and do use cruise missiles. Changing cruise mechanics would severely alter ship and game balance in not very good ways. So let's stick with bomb-related ideas for now. Then I offer this two part idea: Change bombs so they don't travel at all. Instead they stay where they are dropped. They then explode a pre-set amount of time later (for the sake of argument let's say 30 seconds). Then allow Stealth Bombers (and only Stealth Bombers) to drop bombs while cloaked. A certain degree of skill would be required to use this tactic effectively, but I can see it being moderately effective against a blob. Especially if a coordinated Stealth attack bracketed the area. I am not completely familiar with how siege mode works, but I also think this variation would be very effective against Dreadnoughts. Well, keep in mind, bombs are already UNGUIDED. That is, while they have propulsion, they go in a straight line along the path you are flying when you release them. Also, they currently have a 15 second fuse. So they are already rather short ranged. I also doubt many people would go for a cloaked ship being able to fire a weapon. Even a weapon that just sits there before detonating. There is already at least one "cloaks are too powerful" thread every week. The biggest defense of cloaks is that you can't fire or lock targets while cloaked. If you allow SB's to fire while cloaking you are opening up a HUGE can of worms. I'd rather not go there. Keep the ideas coming though. Glad to see people thinking outside the box!
Bish Ounen Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Haurian Commando Seen that vid on youtube with Ushra'Khan & friends all in bombers spamming missiles at a CVA dread while they shoot a POS? Now say bombers are useless :) Note: I never said they were USELESS. I did, however, note that they are hardly ever used, except in niche applications (picking off lone BSes, Wolfpack use in lowsec, that sort of thing.) But for regular use as a fleet ship, and, more to the point of the thread, for use WITH BOMBS as bombs were intended to be used by CCP (as an anti-blob weapon in FLEET warfare) they are seriously lacking, and thus almost never get used. I'm just looking to boost the bomb in such a way that allows the SB to utilize bombs as their stated developer intent was.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:28:00 - [24] Originally by: Winterblink Edited by: Winterblink on 22/05/2008 20:16:24 Originally by: Bish Ounen Absolutely agreed on the price. it's INSANE. Also, I'm not entirely wedded to the multiple launcher concept. Just thought it made sense. I'd say they should get the concept right with a single bomb on a frigate-sized craft, then sort out a medium-sized ship class (maybe a T2 tier-2 battlecruiser?) that can handle more than one bomb module. Bomber Myrmidon? At any rate, the concept needs some tweaking as it is, before it moves onward. EVE needs a T2 Hurricane, imo. Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: Bish Ounen 1) Bombs use the same locking mechanics of missiles. I didn't know that. Why is that, CCP? I assume it's just a matter of cloaking devices being coded so that you can't target or fire any weapons while cloaked, and the game looking at the bomb itself as a weapon/charge instead of an 'autonomous' or separate entity on the grid. Just an assumption, mind you. Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
Tomcat Draconic Industries	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:46:00 - [26] "2) Introduce cruise missiles/bombs that are capable of homing in on a target painted by another ship. This would be allow the stealth bombers to hit and run while the targeting ship tanks the counter fire." Yes, yes, and more Yes.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.22 21:47:00 - [27] I agree bombs cost too much. Apparently CCP did to, as they doubled the number of bombs you get per build run. My guess is that they will wait a bit longer to see if anyone uses them now. I have been in many, many Fleet fights where I would have loved to trade my BS for a SB. Let me give my enemies a chance to be surprised by some of the tactics I'd like to try, however. If they work I'll gladly brag about it; if not I promise to whine to CCP about it. The OP presents a fair assessment of the issues with SB in their current form. So far the community has not embraced the SB. Whether it needs changes to its rules is not yet clear though. Just make bombs a bit cheaper, so people don't have to throw away a cruiser-worth of isk just to take a single shot.
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.22 22:15:00 - [28] I've been in fleets attacked by bombers with bombs a few times during the Delve invasion, and here is what usually happened: We'd be forming up at a gate, and then suddenly..... T+0 seconds: Bombers decloak and release bombs T+3 seconds: Bombers blow up! T+6 seconds: Pods blow up! T+15 seconds: Bombs fizzle harmlessly... Note that during fleet fights nobody ever uses them as lag make them impossible to control properly. Bombs are currently pretty much useless as an anti-blob weapon. If you see a blob, you'll die faster than the 15 seconds it takes the bomb to go off if you dare uncloak. If the blob is busy in battle, they'll usually be spread out making SB's useless, or there'll be so much lag you can't control the bombing run. Unfortunately I can't see many ways to improve them either that wouldn't make them insanely overpowered... Reducing the cost of the bombs really doesn't matter much as you'll usually loose the ship too when trying to use them. My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Manina Boat Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.22 22:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Bish Ounen 1) Bombs use the same locking mechanics of missiles. 2) Bombs are incredibly expensive to manufacture (roughly 8 million ISK per bomb in manufacturing costs ALONE as of today) 3) Bombs are an AOE weapon, and have a remarkably short flight-time, meaning the bomb user has a good chance of hitting friendlies (and themselves) with the bomb. 4) Because bombs are unguided, one has to aim one's ship at the target for the bomb to strike true. They also have to get right on top of the target before launching. 5) Because of all this, hardly anyone ever uses the SB. I've played around with bombs quite a bit and I actually find them great fun!!! 1) No need to lock target - just be pointing towards it and 15km away (to land the bomb right on top of it). 2) Agreed 3) 15 seconds @ 1km/s = 15km range. 15km AOE. So you either have to launch and reverse course quickly (then hit MWD and cloak) or align yourself to warp immediately after launching. The bomb WILL still detonate if you have warped away. (You can actually hit the launch then immediately warp if you are quick enough.) 4) The 15km AOE gives you a fair margin of error! 5) Agreed. [WTS] Bomb BPC's...
Alyth Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.22 22:52:00 - [30] Originally by: Tzrailasa I've been in fleets attacked by bombers with bombs a few times during the Delve invasion, and here is what usually happened: We'd be forming up at a gate, and then suddenly..... T+0 seconds: Bombers decloak and release bombs T+3 seconds: Bombers blow up! T+6 seconds: Pods blow up! T+15 seconds: Bombs fizzle harmlessly... Note that during fleet fights nobody ever uses them as lag make them impossible to control properly. Bombs are currently pretty much useless as an anti-blob weapon. If you see a blob, you'll die faster than the 15 seconds it takes the bomb to go off if you dare uncloak. If the blob is busy in battle, they'll usually be spread out making SB's useless, or there'll be so much lag you can't control the bombing run. Unfortunately I can't see many ways to improve them either that wouldn't make them insanely overpowered... Reducing the cost of the bombs really doesn't matter much as you'll usually loose the ship too when trying to use them. The reasons you have listed there are the reasons I think they should follow probe mechanics as opposed to missile mechanics. That way when the bomber inevitably pops before his 15 seconds are up you aren't throwing away 40+ mill on the ship and another 8-10m for the bomb too. Would be nice if bombers could get a reduction in build costs too considering their current mortality rates.

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