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[issue] Fix for bounty hunting

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JVol	Posted - 2008.05.23 07:00:00 - [1] Edited by: JVol on 23/05/2008 07:06:39 At fanfest last year a corpmate of mine suggested in a round table this idea: (gms said they LOVED it) Basically, introduce bounty agents, you run missions for them and get lps, you use thos lp's to BUY the bounty on players who have bounty on them, and its transferable. The char with the bounty cannot collect his own bounty, only the person with 'rights' . The more of a bounty the more lp's it would cost. If he were killed at a gate for instance,by random campers, no bounty collected. Also, you could kill him in any system, regardless of sec level. I would add that I'd like to see bountys put on chars for anyhting that concord would kill them for. If a char with pos sec suicide ganks you, you can place a bounty on his head. Seems like a quick way to get some players involved in pvp imo and a way to actually make bounty hunting a real profession
JVol	Posted - 2008.05.24 22:26:00 - [2] no love?
Heartstone Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.24 22:29:00 - [3] Interesting. It would certainly need some careful balancing but sounds good in theroy. ---
The PitBoss Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.24 22:46:00 - [4] Game Mechanic - Player has security status(what level?) that allows other players to add ISK bounties on him. - ANY Player pod kills character with bounty recieves ISK. - Character with bounty CAN only be shot at if in 0.0 or sec standing is -5.0 or greater without CONCORD getting involved. JVOL's FIX 1. Inroduce Bounty AGENTS: Use LPS to buy Hunting rights on bountied characters 2. Bounty Rights Transferable 3. Bounty ONLY collectable by Bounty hunters 4. Outlaw can be attack ANYWHERE @ ANYTIME by bounty hunters who have rights on them. 5. Bounties ADDED by concordable offenses NOTABLES 1. Theoretically a character can collect on his own bounty with current system 2. Character can raise his sec status thus making it nearly impossible for someone to collect on his bounty in safe empire. =========================== JVOL ... sorry about the rehash .. its all about the presentation (to me atleast) ... BUT you (your buddy) have a GREAT Idea here ... I TOTALLY support it I'd maybe add ... 1. Outlaw and Bounty hunter can see how many 'contracts' are taken out on the outlaw ... NOT WHO THOUGH ... let them look over thier shoulders Thanks, PB Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox
The Jackhammer Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.24 22:48:00 - [5] What happens to the OTHER character's when a contract/bounty is collected?? Did they waste thier LP? Definate support ... Thank-You, The Jackhammer Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
JVol	Posted - 2008.05.24 23:04:00 - [6] I like it pitboss !
Ren Tales Crimson Flag	Posted - 2008.05.25 10:04:00 - [7] Bounty hunting needs a fix, but this isn't it. Personally I love the "when you blow up a player's ship, you get a portion of their bounty not exeding the value of the maximum insurance payout of the ship you destroyed" Of course this presents a problem for people with high bounties who fly t2 ships, but thats a whole other issue. ---- Want to learn how to yar? Want to teach young pirates? Crimson Flag is Recruiting
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.25 15:11:00 - [8] Interesting idea. I'm not sure it's the best fix for the current lameness of bounties, but it's a good and interesting one. Originally by: The Jackhammer What happens to the OTHER character's when a contract/bounty is collected?? Did they waste thier LP? Definate support ... The bounty doesn't pay out, at all, until the bounty hunter collects it. Originally by: Ren Tales Bounty hunting needs a fix, but this isn't it. Personally I love the "when you blow up a player's ship, you get a portion of their bounty not exeding the value of the maximum insurance payout of the ship you destroyed" Of course this presents a problem for people with high bounties who fly t2 ships, but thats a whole other issue. Again, not a terrible idea. It'd require insurance to go to a market-based system, instead of "base values", but that's a needed change anyways. Actually.../me goes off to make insurance thread ------------------ Fix the forums!
Piitaq 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2008.05.25 15:34:00 - [9] Great idea As I understand it (correct me if Im wrong) people who get bounties placed on their heads, can have friends kill them and share the bounty money. With this new system you propose, you need to be a "certified bounty hunter" instead of people getting the bounty as a side dish, when killing an outlaw. Plus it removes the problem I stated above. I think the bounty hunter profession needs some love, and this proposal is a good way to kick it off. More stuff would be wanted for the bounty hunters. Better access to locator agents A ranking system. (so you could contact the top dog, and have him go after your target) The people placing bounties should know who is taking the job. (You could contact the bounty hunter and offer ships / equipment to aid him)
Ethaet Aliastra	Posted - 2008.05.25 16:11:00 - [10] -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard
JVol The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons	Posted - 2008.05.26 00:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Piitaq Great idea As I understand it (correct me if Im wrong) people who get bounties placed on their heads, can have friends kill them and share the bounty money. With this new system you propose, you need to be a "certified bounty hunter" instead of people getting the bounty as a side dish, when killing an outlaw. Plus it removes the problem I stated above. I think the bounty hunter profession needs some love, and this proposal is a good way to kick it off. More stuff would be wanted for the bounty hunters. Better access to locator agents A ranking system. (so you could contact the top dog, and have him go after your target) The people placing bounties should know who is taking the job. (You could contact the bounty hunter and offer ships / equipment to aid him) Maybe the bounty agent would let you turn in your LP's for locator function thats much more accurate than the current locator agents? Also, I'd like to add that 0.0 and low sec should have the bounty agents as well, I wouldnt suuggest puting them in high sec.
Jack Tremaine Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.26 08:47:00 - [12] I fully support this idea. C'mon CCP, make it happen. EVE is getting boring, a collection of carebears and gatecampers.
Nariana Verex Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.26 16:56:00 - [13] Bounty hunting definitely needs to be looked at. And there are quite a few good ideas in this thread now. Signed. Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space.
Slickdrac JET FORCE Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.05.26 17:10:00 - [14] The bounty system is so broken right now it's pathetic, what's more pathetic is that it's been broken for so long. I've heard this idea before, and I definitely like it. Originally by: The Jackhammer What happens to the OTHER character's when a contract/bounty is collected?? Did they waste thier LP? Definate support ... Here's my two cents, presented in the form of a game show. There are 20 contestants, and 20 boxes filled with various amounts of money at the end of 20 obstacle courses. Each contestant can choose which course to take. Obviously, everyone wants to do the course with the most money. Now, if you are a contestant, do you go for the biggest cash prize, or do you go for a smaller one, which may have fewer, if any, contestants going for it. Risk vs Reward has to be applied to bounties. They have to lose their LP if they fail to complete the contract, otherwise every single bounty hunter will go for the biggest fish. Resulting in a broken system once again. I suck at forums
joshmorris AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.05.26 22:51:00 - [15] Yarr sounds goodish. But i think pirates (- sec lvls) should be able to go into empire but shoot on sight by anybody (not instapwned by concord / police). Uber idea solves all !!
Mickey Simon Asran Defence Force	Posted - 2008.05.27 10:11:00 - [16] I'm not sure if I completely agree. For instance, I believe bounties should be huntable by anyone anywhere without repercussion, and that bounties should not be payed to corp members (and by extension, perhaps alliance members and rookie corp members) to reduce exploitation. The ideas you have proposed are certainly a step in the right direction though. _____ Asran Defence Force is recruiting!
K1773R Xzerion Special Forces	Posted - 2008.05.27 10:34:00 - [17] Wont this just encourage ppl to put low bountys on all the pirates they see and buy the bounty for a very low cost of LP's? And keep ppl from putting high bounty's on pirates they want dead? 2 cents ----------------------------------------------- 6+6 = drunk 12+12 = more drunk
Kyle Frost Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.27 11:02:00 - [18] Edited by: Kyle Frost on 27/05/2008 11:02:41 Supported. Some very good ideas by JVol and the Pitboss. 1 question though - how do you earn those LPs ? You are going to do missions against NPCs or ? Oh and the poster above me has a valid point - this has to be worked out. ------ Let the gun do the talking...
Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.28 17:09:00 - [19] I like it. Very much so. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Amarr Holymight Bat Country Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.05.28 21:44:00 - [20] I will apologize for raining on peoples parade on this one cause I like the idea, but my only problem is mixing PvP and carebear methodologies. If I'm a "bounty hunter" I would not want to grind missions for my next kill this would make it really unattractive. So mild fail.
The RedPlague Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.28 21:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Amarr Holymight I will apologize for raining on peoples parade on this one cause I like the idea, but my only problem is mixing PvP and carebear methodologies. If I'm a "bounty hunter" I would not want to grind missions for my next kill this would make it really unattractive. So mild fail. Great point ... this could be the gateway to PVP ccp can introduce for PVE gaming styles ...
Amarr Holymight Bat Country Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.05.28 23:47:00 - [22] Introducing new players to PvP is a good thing but to alienate old players from something they have been asking for, for a long time is not a good idea in any way shape or form.
JVol The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons	Posted - 2008.05.28 23:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Amarr Holymight I will apologize for raining on peoples parade on this one cause I like the idea, but my only problem is mixing PvP and carebear methodologies. If I'm a "bounty hunter" I would not want to grind missions for my next kill this would make it really unattractive. So mild fail. I dunno, the prospect of hunting down real players is far more motivation than any current pve missions offer atm (for me). Maybe the lp's requirements are very low to get pvp easy, but good missions for the pve grinders. Also maybe make like 5X's your lps back for actually killing the bounty, so as long as your mildly successful you don't have to grind missions?
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.28 23:56:00 - [24] Originally by: JVol Also maybe make like 5X's your lps back for actually killing the bounty, so as long as your mildly successful you don't have to grind missions? Now this I like. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Wu Jian School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.29 00:26:00 - [25] /support bounty hunting profession changes. "Failure is made of should haves," Teraptus.
Amarr Holymight Bat Country Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.05.29 00:50:00 - [26] Yes that would improve it somewhat, but I really don't like any form of PVE if I can help it. I've done my fair share mainly for datacore standing. I really want to see bounty hunting revamped and made viable more than anything else in this game, bugs and all but not sure if this is solution. Now my problems and I had similar issue with Jade's idea in his blog. In order to collect a bounty you have to podkill under no circumstances can you podkill in empire without taking a massive sec-hit and getting concorded so how do you propose attaching bounties to said kill without podding. This system is saying I collect the bounty if I blow up his ship, so do I have to do a certain Meta amount of damage to the person to collect the bounty? If Im just voting for bounty hunting to be revamped I vote yes if I am voting for this as a solution no unfortunately.
Tom Willson	Posted - 2008.05.29 01:08:00 - [27] Interesting... It would actually make it possible for people to become bounty hunters and that's quite a good idea. Me likes.
JVol The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons	Posted - 2008.05.29 02:11:00 - [28] Originally by: Amarr Holymight Yes that would improve it somewhat, but I really don't like any form of PVE if I can help it. I've done my fair share mainly for datacore standing. I really want to see bounty hunting revamped and made viable more than anything else in this game, bugs and all but not sure if this is solution. Now my problems and I had similar issue with Jade's idea in his blog. In order to collect a bounty you have to podkill under no circumstances can you podkill in empire without taking a massive sec-hit and getting concorded so how do you propose attaching bounties to said kill without podding. This system is saying I collect the bounty if I blow up his ship, so do I have to do a certain Meta amount of damage to the person to collect the bounty? If Im just voting for bounty hunting to be revamped I vote yes if I am voting for this as a solution no unfortunately. No, if you get a bounty on you, I wouldnt wear your good implants untill its settled.. bounty=pod kill, no sec loss. Dont do things that get bountys on you if you dont like it :)
Amarr Holymight Bat Country Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.05.29 02:38:00 - [29] Ok well I'm still not voting cause I would have to Pve to get these killrights. But its a good idea.
Amarr Holymight Bat Country Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.05.29 02:48:00 - [30] How about if I have killrights on someone I can use them to setup a contract to the highest bidder to buy it off me, or I can offer people ISK to complete the killright. If Im offering the "Mark" is hidden to prevent alt killing yourself and the Marks online activity is shown. These contracts can only be collected by Bounty hunters working for Concord & the higher your sec standing the better contracts are on offer to you. The first way means people who just got suicide ganked can make some money back on their loss or transfer killrights to their buddies. Offering ISK will be more complex and needs to be looked at carefully so it can't be abused.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.05.29 06:45:00 - [31] This one has my support on 3 conditions: 1. You can only place bounty on somebody when you have killrights on him 2. You can only place bounty on somebody when he is flagged towards you or has a global criminal flag (can flipping, loot stealing etc.). Nobody in yout corp/alliance can place a bounty on you on any condition. That should prevent at least some bounty abuse. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Kasarandon Suzaku Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.29 11:24:00 - [32] Edited by: Kasarandon on 29/05/2008 11:24:00 Supported under the conditions Hugh Ruka specified. Suggestion, bounties must be of a minimum size, to prevent a corp putting a load of minimal bounties on people they wish to kill anywhere, and to make it a paying system for bounty hunters Edit: Spelling
Czanthria Ad Astra Vexillum	Posted - 2008.05.30 03:21:00 - [33] -- Knowledge is Power!
DeathEngine	Posted - 2008.05.31 08:53:00 - [34] Some excellent ideas about a subject that's long overdue some dev attention. Biggest issues seem to be placing of bounties, who can claim and how.. Why not be able to place bounties on anyone that commits certain actions? E.g. podding or can-flipping (I'm sure there are a few more) in anything above 0.0. These would be "concord-certified" bounties which would be the only ones available to "certified bounty hunters." This gets around Corps placing bounties on folk for lesser evils. Amongst other great ideas, JVols suggestion that a positive kill gets you more LP's would have to be a winner as gaining LP's should not require you to grind missions and rewards the successful hunters appropriately by allowing them to take bigger/better targets. Lastly (for now), getting the kill, maybe should involve the pod-kill (because having their frozen corpse to prop up in the corner of your hanger and then dimming the lights is reward in itself..) but to make it easier for lone-wolves in larger ships maybe an increasing warp-delay can be added to pilots pods as they sink to lower and lower sec-status, giving a better chance of catching them. Suitable penalty for a life of crime, no? Excellent thread, tho - hope CCP are paying attention.
Myrkala Aurora Acclivitous	Posted - 2008.06.01 15:37:00 - [35] I support this. "Ruppie ain't no puppie."
Halycon Gamma Felicis Umbra	Posted - 2008.06.25 17:56:00 - [36] Edited by: Halycon Gamma on 25/06/2008 17:56:51 Some questions(because I've never completely understood the standings system), and some ideas. Lets say I'm a pirate, and I kill a mission runner who has a perfect 10.0 sec status with a NPC corp. Do I lose status with that NPC corp? I know we have a concord hit, etc, but I've never actually read a detailed breakdown of how security interaction works with NPC corps, beyond Concord itself. I'm also not a pirate, so I've never tested it either. Anyway.. Hopefully, if you kill someone who's quite beloved, you take a hit, otherwise my idea for this is completely useless. I'm going to go forward assuming this is true.. and if it isn't true.. well.. it should be. 1. Most people getting ganked are mission runners, miners, people with positive security status with an NPC faction of their choice. 2. NPC corps almost all have central hubs that everyone ends up migrating to because there are simply more agents to give missions in those areas, less worry about long flight times between one agent and the next. 3. Most characters live within a 7-8 hop sphere. If all these things are true.. Why implement a faction just for bounty hunters. Just allow NPC factions to self regulate. What that means is, just implement bounty hunters into already existing factions. If you've been over by NPCHauler Corp's Galactic Headquarters ganking people, chances are a lot of the people you killed were doing missions for NPCHaulerCorp, and they were loved by its board of directors. You take appropriate negative status dings from NPCHaulerCorp, and once it hits a certain point.. they decide they've had enough of you, and start shopping around for bounty hunters. Add in a seperate tab of the LP store that lists bounties that have been put on players, that anyone with enough LP and a high enough standing with the corp can buy. The higher the bounty, the higher the LP needed to buy it. From an RP perspective I see this as a much better idea than adding an entire new set of corps and factions to eve. It makes pirates pay attention to not just who they are attacking, but more importantly what they are attacking. Its no longer warfare on newbs, newb corps, and carebears. Its a attacking the status quo, and the status quo normally figures out some way to hit back. Heck, you could take this to the point of once a NPC corp hates you enough, you're no longer allowed to dock there. Have goods there? So sorry, you'll have to contract them to a trusted friend and have them smuggle the things out to you. It puts real penalties on ganking, in a way I simply like better.
Lancard	Posted - 2008.08.10 19:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Mickey Simon The ideas you have proposed are certainly a step in the right direction though. Originally by: The PitBoss JVOL's FIX 1. Inroduce Bounty AGENTS: Use LPS to buy Hunting rights on bountied characters 2. Bounty Rights Transferable 3. Bounty ONLY collectable by Bounty hunters 4. Outlaw can be attack ANYWHERE @ ANYTIME by bounty hunters who have rights on them. 5. Bounties ADDED by concordable offenses Originally by: Halycon Gamma If you've been over by NPCHauler Corp's Galactic Headquarters ganking people, chances are a lot of the people you killed were doing missions for NPCHaulerCorp, and they were loved by its board of directors. You take appropriate negative status dings from NPCHaulerCorp, and once it hits a certain point.. they decide they've had enough of you, and start shopping around for bounty hunters. Add in a seperate tab of the LP store that lists bounties that have been put on players, that anyone with enough LP and a high enough standing with the corp can buy. The higher the bounty, the higher the LP needed to buy it. Originally by: JVol No, if you get a bounty on you, I wouldnt wear your good implants untill its settled.. bounty=pod kill, no sec loss. Dont do things that get bountys on you if you dont like it :) Originally by: Amarr Holymight I will apologize for raining on peoples parade on this one cause I like the idea, but my only problem is mixing PvP and carebear methodologies. If I'm a "bounty hunter" I would not want to grind missions for my next kill this would make it really unattractive. So mild fail.
Arithron Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.10 19:28:00 - [38] Edited by: Arithron on 10/08/2008 19:28:23 Please see the following thread and read the documentation for proposed changes to the Bounty system and Merc system. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=843280 Take care, Arithron P.S. The LP and bounty agent system discussed earlier in this thread is envisioned to be an integral part of the new system

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