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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Ginger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:27:00 -
[1]
Please chuck below your ideas about ranks and integrating them further into EVE
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Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:41:00 -
[2]
Originally by: CCP Ginger Please chuck below your ideas about ranks and integrating them further into EVE
did i miss something? because you're a dev and yet i have NFI what you are talking about.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:43:00 -
[3]
Well you I believe have the dungeon idea. Essentially if you don't have a high enough rank you can't get into the dungeon.
Highest rank npc call for help.
Let's say you are 1 jump into low sec and it's .4 system. You are the highest rank and the system isn't even contested. This would allow the highest rank to call for npc backup. So essentially if he is getting engaged; he calls in for help and lets say 15-30 second delay or something later some npcs show up to assist you.
Afterall what kind of high ranked people in the military ever go anywhere without their posse?
You also had the idea of LP store. As the militia will have its own LP store... I suspect you can setup a deal where the higher the rank the more of a deduction on LP costs of items in the lp store. You also have some new items which are militia only available. For example 1 corp offered Nexus chips and others didnt. So the militia lp store can have unique-ish items.
LP tags of your rank. So you can basically carry around your rank in tag form. The purposes of these might be just about as good as the 20,000 Zor's Dna that have gone poof in space. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Valandril
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:43:00 -
[4]
Well then maybe you should provide with what you got now first, or basic concept ? :D
Anyway what ranks SHOULDN'T BE: - Gained by farming pvp - Give OMPH stuff so it will lead to pvp farming - Give OMPG bonuses so one with highest rank will be unstopable - Lead to "rank only" dungeons - Other stuff that leads to pvp as farming and carebearing tool
Imo they should be just eyecandy, maybe add something on your ship and +5 to epeen. If ppl wanna pvp, they will do it anyway. ---
Yep, i'm back =] |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: CCP Ginger Please chuck below your ideas about ranks and integrating them further into EVE
did i miss something? because you're a dev and yet i have NFI what you are talking about.
Most recent dev blog. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:45:00 -
[6]
Firstly, I think it would be neat if the ranks (and/or standing towards the Militia) would not be tied in only to the missions of the militia, like corporation standings currently are, but instead to other stuff.
Such as...
1) I have understood you lose standing if you shoot people in a Militia, even if you are not in the Militia yourself. How about making that work the same as many standings currently do -- make people -- and make that all people, not just Militia members? -- gain standing when they shoot the enemies of a Militia, too? (It needs to be a lower gain than the killing causes, or pirates will have too much fun times balancing themselves that way, of course; eventually if you just shoot everyone everyone should hate you.)
(If I really go wild, I can imagine this expanded to player alliances too -- set it so that any alliance can allow individual pilots to gain standing with the alliance by killing their reds and lose it by killing their blues.)
2) Make people somehow gain standing when they score "victory points" or whatever in the war zones. Possibly make everyone present in the complex (or even in the system?) when one party's "timer" runs out will gain some (tiny!) bit of standing towards that Militia and/or faction and lose some towards the other -- and yes, I mean everyone, even the hostiles and possible neutral pirates. Why should your militia like you if you just lost a fight?
Secondly, if there is a possible mission grind for standings, I would think it neat if these could be applied to people outside of the Militia too. Currently I can run missions for Republic Fleet without being in the Republic Fleet -- why should I be of the Militia to run Militia missions? Certainly the Militia needs not be more paranoid about handing out work than the Fleet itself? (Ranks, of course, would only apply to members, still.)
And I am really looking forward to being able to make ranks/medals inside corporations. In my ideal world, there would be a way to define automatically calculated definitions of medal/award conditions -- for to receive the Medal for the Exquisitely Awesome Peaceful Industrialist you have to have a sec status above foo, corp title of bar, have incurred at least the income of X to corp wallet via sell orders during past N months, and killed at least a gazillion red guys. But that might be too much to ask...;)
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
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Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:57:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sir Substance on 23/05/2008 10:59:35
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: CCP Ginger Please chuck below your ideas about ranks and integrating them further into EVE
did i miss something? because you're a dev and yet i have NFI what you are talking about.
Most recent dev blog.
ah, i see.
hrm, well. it would seem to me that what a rank 10 person should be able to do is boss around a rank 1 person. to that extent, i reckon that a person 3 ranks above another person should be able to recruit him for help pertaining to something the militia corp have him, forcibly.
i.e, if im rank 10, i should be able to select a rank 7 player (have all the rank 7 people listed, and pick one. the game then sends him a message saying
"You are hereby ordered by Sir Substance, rank (blah), to attend with his task force for the following mission in (x) minutes at (x). if you refuse this direct order you may be subject to a court martial for insubordination."
obviously this needs to be tweaked so you can only call on someone in the area, and the same timezone.
should they refuse, they loose standings with the militia corp, as one would expect when you defy someone three ranks higher then you.
im not thinking a huge loss, but enough that you don't want to reject every order that comes your way.
things that will need to be arranges are how many people a person can recruit (should it be limited to one, two?), and how LP and cash are split up. (you cant expect the poor put upon lower ranking officer to work for free and also you cant have him being used as cannon fodder).
if its implemented properly, it will allow people to do their own thing, to a certain extent, while also fostering a feeling of co-operation within the militia corp, so people are more likely to form groups. if done correctly, you wont end up with another noob corp, full of players who never associate.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:04:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 23/05/2008 11:06:44
Originally by: Sir Substance obviously this needs to be tweaked so you can only call on someone in the area, and the same timezone.
Only somebody currently active, and reasonably close by, in my opinion. Even that will cause trouble -- sometimes people have to leave the game to go to work or sleep -- but if the standings loss is minor then that could maybe work.
Mind you, if the way to gain the ranks is purely a mission grind, this does not really make much out-of-character sense, as the people with highest ranks will not be the most successful fighters for the Militia, but instead the best warriors will be end up called to do silly stuff by mission runners.
Also, this would be easily abused by sending in a spy of the hostile militia, make him grind the highest rank, and then keep on ordering defenders out of a system under attack.
Don't get me wrong -- I like the idea. But it needs work, mostly because the idea that real ranks are mission grind based is borked for pvp content.
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
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Techkraft
Chickens with an Attitude No Law
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:23:00 -
[9]
A criminal rank, give pirates - large part of low sec inhabitants - also a storybased reason to participate in the pvp fun.
Like Yarr first class. Walk the plank specialist. etc
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:36:00 -
[10]
I wouldnt mind seeing LP store discounts for higher ranked players for the milita lp store only.
Other things... hmmm slight or significant performance enahcement for using the said navy's ships, might boost the non battleship navy ships demands and usage.
NPC escorts? naw might be to powerful, but better idea, npc trigger spawning higher ranked you are when you enter a conflict zone the better chance friendly npcs will spawn and help in the objectives. spanwed npcs would be lower 'ranked' than the player.
ambulation options of course
new channel called milita intel i guess, autmatic channel nobody is allowed to talk on, but Command Bunker will broadcast if they are losing stuff and the sort or if they spotted enemy presenescene, this channel would have filters, higher ranked you are the more intel you can pull from farther away.
increased LP store options across empire served, corporations part of 'support our troops' program. higher ranks yeild more options.
what else Gate access, new networks to assit in fw players from getting rapidly to the front lines. Similar to the cyno network or the concord rapid response forces. higehr ranks allow for more gates to be used. naming prefixes will help players quickly signify ranks needed.
Tax reduction for higher ranks. will not apply to fees or refining.
short prefix in players name in chat channels like pvt lance, adm jane, cpt norris, sgt harrison, tmp adon, cav hennesy.
thats all i can think of for now.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:46:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 23/05/2008 11:46:37
As FW is added to, higher ranks get access to more tools. For example get access to maps that real-time track beacons within 5 or 10 jumps
Access to special locator agents who give them bookmarks to friendly plexes. Also make it so cloaked covops and recons don't light up a beacon. Thus you can use this to set a trap
Access to storage hangars at the system's control bunker for fast re-shipping
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J'Mkarr Soban
Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:46:00 -
[12]
I definitely think that the rank should preceed the character name whenever it's seen - that includes local.
-- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |
FT Diomedes
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:46:00 -
[13]
I like the idea of being able to call on NPC escorts. These would function similarly to fighters, in that they could warp along with the player. Higher level players would have more and better NPC escorts. Perhaps to cut down on potential lag issues, these could be available only in low sec. The escorts would be purchased at the militia LP stores and the player would be able to determine what kind of NPC he wanted to escort him. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:55:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 23/05/2008 11:56:40
Quote: Higher level players
why is there not a BLECH icon on these boards??
This is a phrase I hope I will never, never, ever again need to hear in context of EVE. I realize it was a slip of the tongue, but I think it is a very telling one about this rank stuff.
Please no weapons, equipment, locations that are "level" based instead of skill based. Please.
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
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Rach NiKunni
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Ginger Please chuck below your ideas about ranks and integrating them further into EVE
Originally by: CCP Ginger Please chuck below your ideas about ranks and integrating them further into EVE
Well, if you mean ranks like in the "number of stripes" someone has on their sleeve then I have an idea for you.
We run a corp with a specific ranking system for PVP players. Our ranking is based in broad lines on:
1) Experience 2) Training
There are several ranks defined with different requirements. In our case the experience is kills and operations FC'd and the training is ships and leaderships skills.
for example the requirements for one of our ranks is this: - Fleet commander level 1 - Dreadnought or Carrier class level 1 - 200 kills - running 45 ops
The issue we have is in checking when someone has reached a certain rank. We would like to get a signal (evemail or somekind of list) but we have to do is leave it to the players to keep track of it themselves and when they want a promotion they have to ask a director to verify their claim.
Soooooo what to do?
You can't really automate experience unless you build in a lot of tools but you could automate the training part of it in EVE:
1) As a minimum to give it structure you would need to set up a screen under corp like the title-management screen but for ranks. ON this screen you would need to be able to: Create a ranks, give them names, possibly rolls (associated titles), and pre-requisites based on in-game attributes like which (top level) skills/skill levels are required. You would also have to be able to give them an order (1,2,3...) to indicate in which order ranks can be gained.
2) you would have to implement a way to create more than one ranking system per corp. Our PVP players have different ranks than our industry players, for example.
3) you would have to implement a way for players to see their rank and the prerequisites for the next level. this could be hung under the character sheet.
4) you would have to implement a way for directors to see which players have met the requirements for the next level but have not yet been promoted. something like a list similar to the "applications" list where you can "accept" or "defer for x weeks" would work. You can't make it automatic because the director will still need to check the experience requirements.
Is that a start? If you wanted to try implementing some of the experience stuff it would be a lot more work. You'd have to link combat logs to rankings as well as possibly keep track of the number of times a character filled each of the rolls in a fleet and how big the fleet was. It would be a bit of a puzzle to link fleet information to rankings though... once people start telling you what kind of experiences they use to determine their rankings I suspect it will become a pretty deep rabbit's hole....
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rach NiKunni If you wanted to try implementing some of the experience stuff it would be a lot more work.
You could have some system that had a "freeform requirement" that people could tick, for book-keeping. It would still require they do the book-keeping, but it would be in the same interface. Say a director can put in a requirement for "being nice to the directors, 200 times" and then every time when someone they could up their count by one... Maybe allow the director to select if people can tick on their own or if they need to have a director count it for them, too.
We are getting quite advanced here, but I like the idea of freely definable rank requirements for corporations.
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
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Ishina Fel
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:49:00 -
[17]
I am just going to link my post from the devblog comment thread here. Saves me from typing it up again
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Mahn AlNouhm
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:07:00 -
[18]
Why not let rank give leadership style bonuses to a fleet? I leave it to you to figure out the specifics, but it seems reasonable. They should compound with the bonuses leadership skills grant, the end run being that FW pvp would be faster paced, harder hitting, and more intense. . . .
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Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 23/05/2008 11:50:38
Originally by: Sir Substance obviously this needs to be tweaked so you can only call on someone in the area, and the same timezone.
Mind you, if the way to gain the ranks is purely a mission/complex grind, this does not really make much out-of-character sense, as the people with highest ranks will not necessarily be the same group of people as the most successful fighters for the Militia, but instead the best warriors will be end up called to do silly stuff by people who do nothing but run missions.
hrm, thats something i hadn't thought of. i still think its an epic idea (even if it is mine) but id say it needs about 6 months of heavy cogitation at CCP HQ to iron out the wrinkles that are clearly there.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:09:00 -
[20]
it would be great if highest ranked pilots could interfere or manipulate Factional Warfare mechanics.
For example, if they could tweak the destination system for FW missions, and decide that for the weekend a certain system in heimmatar should be the primary target.
also, the idea of NPC scorts is very good.
what i do not like is linking ranks to exclusive loyalty store offers, missions or complexes. i mean, we already have standings for that, dont we?
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mahn AlNouhm Why not let rank give leadership style bonuses to a fleet? I leave it to you to figure out the specifics, but it seems reasonable. They should compound with the bonuses leadership skills grant, the end run being that FW pvp would be faster paced, harder hitting, and more intense.
For the record, for my opinion, gang bonuses and NPC escorts count as "equipment", which should not be handed out based on "levels", but should be something anyone can buy and use given they have the skills and isk.
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
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Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:40:00 -
[22]
The higher your rank the less NPC support you get, thus keeping everyone on a level playing field.
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Thebro Nobrunder
Schrodinger's Renegades
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:43:00 -
[23]
Ranks could be used in the faction LP store to limit the equipment which is available. For instance a rank 1 may only be able to buy faction frigates while a rank 3 cruisers and a rank 7 (eventually) faction BS
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Wren Alterana
The Baros Syndicate Kissaki Republic
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:43:00 -
[24]
as you go up in rank you should get a bonus to your militias weapons. So if your in the Caldari Militia then as your rank goes up, you get bonuses to Caldari ships and items, and maybe minor bonuses to Amarr ones as well since you'd be allies _________
Dynamic Maps |
Tlar Sanqua
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:37:00 -
[25]
I'd suggest that it would be nice that if you destroyed someone's ship of a rank, they dropped a tag with it on. might be a bit too much to code, but would be fun to see who had the largest collection of Brigadier General's .
Other ideas are: - add to the FW LP store rank requirements. - NPC aid, but could prove difficult to implement. This really should be a must as what use is a general without troops to command. Could possibly be done in the same way as assign fighters and be one use only costing LP and automatically attached until next dock. - obviously more lucrative complexes to reward time and effort spent in the war - ability to command faction turrets if you have the skill? - different coloured text in the factional warfare channel, just to show others your rank. - free factional skill tapes on achieving a rank. These could either be sold, or kept and learnt. Be a good way of encouraging players to develop their own races skill trees.
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gfldex
Kabelkopp
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:57:00 -
[26]
NPCs should take you rank into account when they talk to you. And I mean _any_ NPCs, even high sec noob agents.
Ranks, in their current incarnation, are a NPC grind thingy and thus NPCs should value a rank accordingly. --
There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
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Rach NiKunni
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:58:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Rach NiKunni on 23/05/2008 15:06:33 OMG it just hit me that he's asking about ranking for FW.
I understand that CCP needed to upgrade the soul-crushingly boring PVE system to stop mission farmers from quitting EVE due to PVE induced re.tardation but to acutally REWARD them with a ranking system with all kinds of bling bling.....
My God what a waste of programming talent....
My proposal for the ranking system is to think broader than only the PVE audience and introduce tools that will allow corps to control their own content. Make them compatible with FW rankings if you must but DON'T overlook your hard-core audience....you know.... the ones who find PVE pointless and prefer to create their own destiny...... ! Please don't forget us! Please.
People should make the content in EVE. Ideally ALL of the content. I understand that CCP needs loads of mission runners for their business model but you'll screw up the game if you focus too much time on "marketing fluff".
In the same amount of time it's going to take to put in faction rankings you could: 1) implement transferable kill rights 2) implement a 24 hour skill queue 3) develop a beta fix for local
If I had to choose I would drag your marketing boss outside for a talk and we'd get this instead.....
My 2c worth.
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Mioelnir
KULT Production Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:04:00 -
[28]
- LP store discount of 1.5% per rank
- Missions should get hardener / capture timers longer. You are a general and not a ensign after all, live up to it.
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Vibora BR
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:25:00 -
[29]
I would like to have huge discounts in Faction Items as reward for a high rank in FW.
Also the chance to call NPCs for help would be nice.
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CrestoftheStars
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:34:00 -
[30]
would be nice if the ranks to each faction actually gave you some kind of bonus when using that factions ships (like amarr empire would reward it's high ranking pod pilots with something exclusive like a extra bonus when using amarr ships). or set in some exclusive items into the lp stores which you can only draw out if you have at least X rank, could be the commander/officer mods (maybe a small modification to let them reflect the race and faction which they come from) ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
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