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How much ISK do you make a Hour?

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Bacon Monster	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:07:00 - [1] Hello all, Just a little background, I have never lived in High Sec. I was in 0.0 the day I made my character and this is the first time I have seriously considered Empire as a means to play this game. Real life has become hectic and I need to play casually , and thats something I really cant do in 0.0. With that said I don't know anyone in game that runs missions and I was wondering how much ISK you make a hour running level 4 missions? (Amarr specifically) Right now I make 42mil a hour, would like to make near that much, I fund a few accounts with ISK so I really need to keep my ISK/Hour ratio up. -Thanks for the help. PS: Mission Advice is also welcome, I plan on using a Paladin.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:38:00 - [2] Normal raven here, T2 fitted except for launchers, between 15 and 20M.
Toria Nynys	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:39:00 - [3] You will need multiple accounts to hit 40+M an hour in empire consistently. At the very last to pull missions with. About 1/2 of all missions offer nearly 0 ISK/hr, so taking every mission offered is a giant lose. It's possible to hit 50M/hr including loot if you do nothing but back to back cream of the crop missions using 2+ accounts. With 1? 20M/hr is the most you can hope for on a long term basis. I run L4 missions for all factions in gear ranging a single rat loot drop fitted Armageddon (~28m SP pilot) to a Nighthawk+CNR+Kronos triple play (about 75M total SP out on the field), depending on mood. The last one cuts through rats like a red hot chainsaw through butter -- but factor in travel time and it's tough to hit 40-50M an hour. I can fly a Paladin and a Golem as well. But I'm too cheap to -- sold the Kronos since.
Phaz Menik	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:03:00 - [4] Not to hijack the thread but how do you make so much money in 0.0. I've recently moved back to empire and just started lvl 4s myself. I'm extremely slow at the moment and running them in a domi. I'm presuming you mine? Also ion the missions I've ran I earn about 3-4mil, so once I speed up I think you are looking at 10-15mil per hour. Ofc this doesn't take into consideration the occasional module drop which is awesome. (Got to love the 12mil missile launcher that dropped for me today)
Gemineia Rakeriku Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.05.23 22:15:00 - [5] Good missions can be run in under an hour with upwards of 20mil in bounties and reward. Couple in easy decent loot and your laughing all the way to the bank. My favourite mission for ISK is The Blockade vs Bloods. Easy to tank, plenty of bounties and the salvage is excellent. Lots of people run missions in Domi's and cruise ravens as it's easy and they tank hard, but easy != efficient. Example: All 5 skilled domi pilot just using ogre II's deals 475dps and has to wait for the drones to move around. A paladin (using scorch and pulse II's) can deal almost 900dps to 45km instantly with top skills (with my alts it's closer to 800 at the minute). This is without implants. Once you start to look at damage over an NPC tank it starts to look worse. Example: NPC tanks 300dps. That domi now is effectively eating through 175dps, the paladin almost 600. Thus should (effectively) finish the mission 3 times quicker. I think it's Leandro (spelling?) who advocates gank over tank for missions. The quicker you kill the NPC's the quicker incoming DPS drops. You only need enough tank to do the mission, not to tank it all forever.
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2008.05.23 22:23:00 - [6] Originally by: Gemineia I think it's Leandro (spelling?) who advocates gank over tank for missions. The quicker you kill the NPC's the quicker incoming DPS drops. You only need enough tank to do the mission, not to tank it all forever. tbh each and every half-arsed missionrunner thinks the same
Toria Nynys	Posted - 2008.05.23 22:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Fon Revedhort tbh each and every half-arsed missionrunner thinks the same What's wrong with the premise and implementation? After running missions a thousand times each you should have a perfect idea of which missions require a whole heapin' helpin' o tank, which ones can be gank tanked, and which ones you won't even need to toggle your booster (Massive Attack, Retribution). Advising newbies to gank tank is a bit wrong, but I don't see the problem for an old crusty (non half-arsed) mission *****.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.05.23 23:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Toria Nynys Originally by: Fon Revedhort tbh each and every half-arsed missionrunner thinks the same What's wrong with the premise and implementation? After running missions a thousand times each you should have a perfect idea of which missions require a whole heapin' helpin' o tank, which ones can be gank tanked, and which ones you won't even need to toggle your booster (Massive Attack, Retribution). Advising newbies to gank tank is a bit wrong, but I don't see the problem for an old crusty (non half-arsed) mission *****. I think he means everyone knows that is the way to go, not just Leandro or whoever the quote think said it first.
Dearest Wish State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.24 00:09:00 - [9] Edited by: Dearest Wish on 24/05/2008 00:23:14 Originally by: Gemineia Good missions can be run in under an hour with upwards of 20mil in bounties and reward. Couple in easy decent loot and your laughing all the way to the bank. My favourite mission for ISK is The Blockade vs Bloods. Easy to tank, plenty of bounties and the salvage is excellent. Lots of people run missions in Domi's and cruise ravens as it's easy and they tank hard, but easy != efficient. Example: All 5 skilled domi pilot just using ogre II's deals 475dps and has to wait for the drones to move around. A paladin (using scorch and pulse II's) can deal almost 900dps to 45km instantly with top skills (with my alts it's closer to 800 at the minute). This is without implants. Once you start to look at damage over an NPC tank it starts to look worse. Example: NPC tanks 300dps. That domi now is effectively eating through 175dps, the paladin almost 600. Thus should (effectively) finish the mission 3 times quicker. I think it's Leandro (spelling?) who advocates gank over tank for missions. The quicker you kill the NPC's the quicker incoming DPS drops. You only need enough tank to do the mission, not to tank it all forever. i have said domi with all V to relevant skills. I use SD rigs and Garde II's. This puts dps up to 490 and change without guns. Add a set of 425's with a shield tank and I can push 900 dps instantly. While still holding a 1k dps tank (specific). before anyone asks - Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Power Diagnostic System II True Sansha Power Diagnostic System Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Garde II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Ogre II x5 It perma runs with tier 3 ammo, tier 1 ammo (am) caps it out in 13 minutes though. I've never really had to worry about that though, since I rarely if ever have to take full room agro since Sentry drones don't have the same agro issues as Ogre II's. This fit needs a +3% cpu implant for me at least. If you happened to fit both Squire 5% (Rech/Total) you would probably be able to perma run with tier 1 ammo, but i haven't checked, never really needed to. The only problem with the setup is the SB makes this ship suicide gank bait. most people only check ravens for nice mods though. And I only mission out of very quite systems.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.24 04:19:00 - [10] ISK/Hour got much lower in the course of the last two years. I remember back then there wasn't an awareness for suicide ganking and such, i used an officer fitted cnr with an insane dps. The lps were worth over 2000isk/lp (got up to 2300 with special items), so a good tactics was speed-missioning. Keeping the agent thru faction standing and cherry-pick the short missions only, going for the max lp/hour. For example you did Zazzmatazz in below 5 min (killed only 3 ship + building) and got around 5k lp = ~10 mil. Or Slaver 2/2 in 7 min and got 8.5k lp = 20mil from lp + payout + bounties. The regular mission payout was something around 50-70 mil / hour. But this doesn't work today anymore, it's not possible to field a officer-fitted mission-monster, and the lps are not worth that much, today you get at best only half as much isk for lps as 2 years ago, so that 20mil/hour with decent skills and t2 fitted ship is a realistic number.
Ularra Gi	Posted - 2008.05.24 05:32:00 - [11] I get 15-30 mil isk an hour in short bursts from running courier missions (which fits my playing style FWIW since I can't stand running missions for many hours). Some places have piles of level 4 agents, so you can run half a dozen or more courier missions at once.
Newbear	Posted - 2008.05.24 06:45:00 - [12] You guys should factor in investment type isk you can make playing lazy bear style like me. 1) Sell hi-sec pos services, 2) datacore harvesting 3) selling copies and researched bpos from your hi-sec pos, I can help with that btw. But my favorite way of making isk is selling time codes, over a billion isk per minute! Click here for my High Security POS Service
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.24 06:59:00 - [13] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/05/2008 06:59:38 If you know which agents to work for and what LP items to buy/manufacture, making 300mil/day for 4 hours work in a t2 fitted maurader is common and this is excluding loot. If you do not know what LP items to buy, then you probebly make around 80-100mil in that same timespan -- Billion Isk Mission
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.05.24 07:00:00 - [14] I could make 50 mil per hour in good NPC systems in 0.0 with a mildly pimped (~100 mil total fitting) ratting ship. I can make the same in empire missioning, but that has a few ifs attached: - If you have an optimal ship and setup (not cheap) - If you run missions that are suited to said ship - If you know the missions in your sleep - If you don't get offered a lot of ****ty missions in a row (happens way too often) - If you have an LP item that gives you decent returns (quite rare) - If your agent doesn't send you more than one system out regularly. Barring that, your average run of the mill T2 gank ship running average missions should make you something in the ballpark of 25 mil per hour once you are into things. A lot less probably while you are still learning missions. And no, NOT everyone and their dog ganktanks. Judging from most of the fitting threads, the large majority of people still goes for tank over gank. Some because they like to do things AFK, but most because they are unneccessarily afraid of some imaginary danger, don't know better, run in a laghole like Motsu, or are n00bs. And the only ones from the latter not doing something wrong there are the n00bs. Make suicide ganking more difficult!
Gemineia Rakeriku Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.05.24 07:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Dearest Wish before anyone asks - Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Power Diagnostic System II True Sansha Power Diagnostic System Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Garde II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Ogre II x5 Do those guns even track anything? Although not quite the same thing, I've tried tachys + tracking computer vs my usualy mega pulse II with scorch and the tachys can't track for crap. Originally by: Lord WarATron If you know which agents to work for and what LP items to buy/manufacture, making 300mil/day for 4 hours work in a t2 fitted maurader is common and this is excluding loot. If you do not know what LP items to buy, then you probebly make around 80-100mil in that same timespan True. However the market can (and does) change. It can be a real pain to keep flicking between NPC agents. It's worth the effort, but you're going to need faction standings.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.24 08:22:00 - [16] I've never calculated my exact ISK/hour, but it seems to be quite a bit north of 30m/hour. I take the missions offered, only rejecting courier missions and EA (don't like the standings loss). I've got almost perfect missile skills, full rack of missile implants, and is flying a T2 Torp Golem. I salvage/loot everything, build rigs and battleships from what I salvage/refine and sell good named items. The Golem is key to getting above 30m/hour. It lets you gather all wrecks in the same location for easy salvaging in a destroyer afterwards (6 salvagers on a Cormorant makes short work of it), and allows you to loot most/all while shooting. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Dearest Wish State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.24 11:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Gemineia Originally by: Dearest Wish before anyone asks - Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Power Diagnostic System II True Sansha Power Diagnostic System Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 425mm Railgun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Garde II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Ogre II x5 Do those guns even track anything? Although not quite the same thing, I've tried tachys + tracking computer vs my usualy mega pulse II with scorch and the tachys can't track for crap. Originally by: Lord WarATron If you know which agents to work for and what LP items to buy/manufacture, making 300mil/day for 4 hours work in a t2 fitted maurader is common and this is excluding loot. If you do not know what LP items to buy, then you probebly make around 80-100mil in that same timespan True. However the market can (and does) change. It can be a real pain to keep flicking between NPC agents. It's worth the effort, but you're going to need faction standings. you shoot battleships with the guns. garde's can track cruisers and above just fine and 2 salvo them, so you shouldn't even get a lock on them before they pop. frigies and the like are taken care of by lights/mediums depending on how you feel. hth
mppnkey Trench coat mafia	Posted - 2008.05.24 11:52:00 - [18] when i live in 0.0 i usually made between 40 and 70 mill an hour, thats using a CNR + fighter drones
Kis Kecheri	Posted - 2008.05.24 12:06:00 - [19] Originally by: mppnkey when i live in 0.0 i usually made between 40 and 70 mill an hour, thats using a CNR + fighter drones DOES NOT COMPUTE
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.24 12:31:00 - [20] Edited by: Kerfira on 24/05/2008 12:33:38 Originally by: mppnkey when i live in 0.0 i usually made between 40 and 70 mill an hour, thats using a CNR + fighter drones Are you including in your calculation?: 1. Time to get to ratting system 2. Time to set up a proper chain 3. Time to get loot/salvage to market 4. Time to get ammo or other supplies 5. Time to do salvage/looting 6. Time spent idle when someone hunts you 7. Losses and time to get a replacement ship down 8. Extra time needed to go shopping These are essentially all 0 or close to 0 for a high-sec Torp Golem mission runner. Even if you use an alt when doing some of them in 0.0, that time still has to be included (the measure is ISK per hour per account). Essentially, when I was ratting in 0.0, I found that everything taken into account, the income was quite a bit worse per hour than high-sec mission running. Another not insignificant bit is that mostly you can do missions half-afk, whereas you need eyes on local in 0.0 all the time. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
syphurous Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.05.24 12:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Originally by: mppnkey when i live in 0.0 i usually made between 40 and 70 mill an hour, thats using a CNR + fighter drones DOES NOT COMPUTE You just need a friend with a carrier, and you can fly your own little squadron. Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.05.24 12:39:00 - [22] Quote: Essentially, when I was ratting in 0.0, I found that everything taken into account, the income was quite a bit worse per hour than high-sec mission running. Another not insignificant bit is that mostly you can do missions half-afk, whereas you need eyes on local in 0.0 all the time. These days, all you need is your volume turned up.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Boz Well These days, all you need is your volume turned up. I know Still counts as 'cheating' imho. Talked to a guy some days ago who uses the same mechanism as 'bacon' to macro-rat. Essentially he flew a Raven with FoF missiles and a tank, and when he found a spawn he just started his little program. A timer made sure to activate CTRL-R to reload, wait 10s and press F1-F6, and an alarm went off if hostiles came in or if no more rats were shooting him. If he didn't react within 10 seconds of the hostile alarm, the program would CTRL-Q... Abuses like this makes me hope CCP will do something about it soon... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Ukradka Loota Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.24 15:25:00 - [24] I'm happily farming Angel Blocades when I make runs for money. 40 min each in a Cruise Raven + logistics/salvager, 5 L4 agents within 1 jump radius making it pretty fast to roll new Blocade instead of expired one. Though I hardly ever have gas to make more than 3 blocades in a row cause its boring.
AstroPhobic	Posted - 2008.05.24 19:25:00 - [25] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 24/05/2008 19:26:08 You can probably do well with a few accounts running missions. I would have a tanker such as the paladin, and 2 gankers (Probably geddon/baddon and harbinger). Make sure you're using beams on the paladin, and then use pulse on the gank BS, and whatever you need on the harby. Probably pulse, but it might depend on the mission. Tractor all the wrecks in the paladin, and then clean it up with the harb character while the tank and main gank head to the next mission. Rinse and repeat. That's how I would do it, anyway. Astro
Bacon Monster	Posted - 2008.05.24 21:52:00 - [26] Thanks for all the replys, its made me much more comfortable going into Empire knowing I will be able to make money. I think my set up will be, Main: Paladin, 2ndary DPS (if needed): a Galent or Matar BS and my 3rd character in a Mammoth or a Mastodon to pick up stuff as we go so after the room is clear, so are the wrecks. Does anyone have a Amarr agent they would suggest me to work up towards? (I only picked amarr b/c I figure that the missions would work the best for me doing only Em/Thermal). What do I look for when picking a agent? Just go for the best Quality lvl 4 and what sector do I need to work for? I want only kill missions if possible. Thanks for all the help ^^.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.24 23:21:00 - [27] Edited by: Kerfira on 24/05/2008 23:21:19 Originally by: Bacon Monster I think my set up will be, Main: Paladin, 2ndary DPS (if needed): a Galent or Matar BS and my 3rd character in a Mammoth or a Mastodon to pick up stuff as we go so after the room is clear, so are the wrecks. For a mission, it's pretty rare to get more loot than you can hold in a Marauder (especially a Paladin). For your 3rd character you'll be better off with a salvage destroyer (6 salvagers & 3 salvage rigs). In the rare instances where your loot exceeds the Paladin + salvage destroyer, just make one more run in the Paladin. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
AstroPhobic	Posted - 2008.05.25 00:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Bacon Monster Thanks for all the replys, its made me much more comfortable going into Empire knowing I will be able to make money. I think my set up will be, Main: Paladin, 2ndary DPS (if needed): a Galent or Matar BS and my 3rd character in a Mammoth or a Mastodon to pick up stuff as we go so after the room is clear, so are the wrecks. Does anyone have a Amarr agent they would suggest me to work up towards? (I only picked amarr b/c I figure that the missions would work the best for me doing only Em/Thermal). What do I look for when picking a agent? Just go for the best Quality lvl 4 and what sector do I need to work for? I want only kill missions if possible. Thanks for all the help ^^. I would skip matar BS - they are really godawful. You will be dissapointed with DPS and tracking, plus there's plenty of wasted damage. The Damage types never fit missions right either. A megathron wouldn't be a bad choice, but I think a geddon or baddon would be better. Depending on the skills of the tanker and ganker, I second the motion for a salvage-stroyer. Maybe a salvage domi, or a salvage myrmidon instead, so they can deploy drones while salvaging. You can tractor with the paladin, so speed won't be a huge concern. Your two biggest limiting factors to ISK should be travel time between gates and stations, and multi-tasking ability.
Bacon Monster	Posted - 2008.05.25 01:06:00 - [29] Could I not just salvage as I go along with the Paladin? Guess using 3 tractor beams and a drone augmenter (do you even need those on missions?) would would better than 1 salvager really... I want to get my 2ndary combat character into a Machariel so going for galent BS wouldn't be out of the question, just a little more training. How much M^3 of loot is there generally on a good Lv.4 mission per room? Would the 2 BS's and the salvager ship be able to hold enough to finish out a mission or would I have to make trips back and forth mid mission? Thats one reason I figured a Mastodon would be nice, cut out travel times.
AstroPhobic	Posted - 2008.05.25 01:21:00 - [30] Originally by: Bacon Monster Could I not just salvage as I go along with the Paladin? Guess using 3 tractor beams and a drone augmenter (do you even need those on missions?) would would better than 1 salvager really... I want to get my 2ndary combat character into a Machariel so going for galent BS wouldn't be out of the question, just a little more training. How much M^3 of loot is there generally on a good Lv.4 mission per room? Would the 2 BS's and the salvager ship be able to hold enough to finish out a mission or would I have to make trips back and forth mid mission? Thats one reason I figured a Mastodon would be nice, cut out travel times. The Paladin should hold enough, or at least enough to stick it in a single can, which you can warp back to later in a hauler. Your secondary combat character should be somethin with high high DPS, which is why I suggest an amarr DPS boat, or a megathron(but it won't have quite the DPS or the right damage types). If done right, you shouldn't have time to tractor and salvage all the wrecks you make. Instead you should make a big ball/line of wrecks so it's super easy to salvage later, or with a ship with no tractors.

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