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CCP dont nerf nano / speed tank !?!

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joshmorris AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:27:00 - [1] Edited by: joshmorris on 24/05/2008 14:29:57 Please read don't flame for title :P (Can still guarantee people will just hit reply after seeing title but meh) But yeah i don't see any reason to nerf nano ships. The nano ships which arnt suppose to be nano like , ishtar , cerb , sacrilege are balanced when speed tanked i dont see any reason to make them slower. But seriously what will change if you stacked speed mods ect .... nothing. The only difference is that ships like the ishtar / cerb will not be able to outrun cruise missiles unless spending alot of isk. Ships like the hurricane wont be able to do its 2k m/s nano setup. Ships like the mach will wont have nano fun anymore. And yet the big force recon gangs with a mix of huginns , vagas , ishtars , arazus , falcons will still roam and still own as long as the pilots know what there doing. Lone nano ships dont work anymore. With all the people fitting heavy neuts nowadays and flying huginns them selfs its only the larger gangs that actually hurt. Its only the people who spend hundreds of millions to a billion + fitting there nano ships that are extremely hard to catch and are annoying but they run the RISK of loosing that to a single huginn or 1 bait battleship with duel neuts and duel faction webs everyday they fly it. What do people want ? Wipe nano out of the game so there are only bs gangs and bc gangs ? (move to low sec if you want that as things have to tank sentry's) So yeah, don't nerf speed tank there is no reason to. ps - And yes they can disengage at will but using bait like i mentioned the only ships disengaging will be ships fitting a cap booster. Uber idea solves all !!
Euriti Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.24 15:14:00 - [2] Even though the post was hard to decifer and has some flaws in the argumentation, I largely agree. Polycarbs need a nerf from 15 to 10% and need to be alot cheaper (done by material cost).
TimMc Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.24 15:44:00 - [3] I think nano's are fine, until I occasionally run into someone with HG snakes. Then its not fun anymore.
Bloody Puppy Onorata Societa	Posted - 2008.05.24 15:50:00 - [4] Edited by: Bloody Puppy on 24/05/2008 15:51:39 i don't understand why people trolls about nano ship. seriously if someone is blasted from a nano ship, after 5 minutes on the forum appear a new post nerf nano! and why if someone is blasted from a plated trimark-rigged plated again ship, whit >10k armor nothing happen? i think is just a psicological issue, i mean people are afraid and frustrated of shooting and missing a target too fast and when they found a HPmonster they crouch of barely pass the shield, thinking "anyways i've been able to fight him back...." just my 2 cents (EDIT: hoping my isn't a broken english ) ------------------------------------------------- The puppy -- yarr WHY EVERYONE LOVES ME BUT NOONE UNDERSTAND ME? Albert Heinstein
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:12:00 - [5] Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 24/05/2008 16:12:06 People troll about nanos/speed tank because they can do way more than shield/armor tank can. Speed Tanks can evade damage, chase the enemy, run away. Shield/armor tanks can sit there and (eventually) die, because they have no way of running away or closing in on the enemy if needed. _
John Richardson	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:24:00 - [6] Change EVERYTHING to -50%, so the game works exactly the same, but looks slower
Pax Empyrean	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:34:00 - [7] Quote: But seriously what will change if you stacked speed mods ect .... nothing. Ummm... ships would go slower? Isn't that kind of the point? I'd love it if the crazy-fast ships were all frigates. Cruisers and HACs tearing all over space like they do now seems a little weird.
Agent 47x	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:43:00 - [8] i dont c the prob about nano gang u need a rapier and there be dun it easy and nano soooo much more fun the a Battleship gang and what not!!!! so stop moring get in a Nano gang and have fun .. one more thing if u kill a nano ship there worth alot then ur Cr*p one ..
slothe Murky Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.24 20:20:00 - [9] tweak polycarbs to +10% bonus, in line with other modules, then see what we are left with then, keep the price the same.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.05.24 20:39:00 - [10] Edited by: Shadowsword on 24/05/2008 20:38:55 Originally by: slothe tweak polycarbs to +10% bonus, in line with other modules, then see what we are left with then, keep the price the same. Won't be enough, and if CCP does this, with their usual inertia, there will still be 6 months and more before they adress the issue again. That's what happened with the last "nano fix", and we've seen the result. What is needed is a really sinigifiant nerf, not something that will maybe add 10% to the damage nano ships will take, or a rework of the whole damage and speed game mechanics. ------------------------------------------
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.24 20:43:00 - [11] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/05/2008 20:44:44 Issue is not nano, its the counter. Good luck trying to use a 10km web on a nanocurse doing 10k/sec. Solution is web scripts that are lower powered but longer range (e.g 45% 20km web scripts etc). And I say this as someone who has already done the nano phase. -- Billion Isk Mission
joshmorris AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.05.24 20:51:00 - [12] Edited by: joshmorris on 24/05/2008 20:53:39 Originally by: Shadowsword Edited by: Shadowsword on 24/05/2008 20:38:55 Originally by: slothe tweak polycarbs to +10% bonus, in line with other modules, then see what we are left with then, keep the price the same. Won't be enough, and if CCP does this, with their usual inertia, there will still be 6 months and more before they adress the issue again. That's what happened with the last "nano fix", and we've seen the result. What is needed is a really sinigifiant nerf, not something that will maybe add 10% to the damage nano ships will take, or a rework of the whole damage and speed game mechanics. Yeah but why ? There isn't a problem to nerf. People say nano is all win. They can avoid damage , run when they want to and engage at will. BUT when they do get caught and outsmarted they take heavy damage , its very hard to get away and they have a big hole in there pocket. In my original post i stated that nerfing speed wont make a difference because it will still be more viable than tanking your hac and battleships do this so much better. The days of trimarks and super armor tanks just outclass hacs for that purpose so hacs are much better nano'd. Imo rigs brought on the nano phase in more than just polys ... the fact that bs have so much more everything than tanked hacs (appart from more mobility aka speed ..) there is no reason to tank your hac and loose out on all that insurance than insure it and be able to get away. Quote: Issue is not nano, its the counter. When a curse goes 10k m/s its not nano the problem its the fact that somebody spends an amazing amount of isk on 1 ship and can have a huge advantage. Regardless you cant expect to counter a 2b + ship with a 1 m webber, even then if the curse tried to solo a bait battleship with faction neutralizers and duel faction webs that curse would go down in seconds. Uber idea solves all !!
Xyleya moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.05.24 21:02:00 - [13] I'm flying nano-ships every day... Rapier and Vaga most of the time. Yes, sometimes you catch a nano-ship with a Huginn or Rapier, but thats only, when the pilot is dumb enough to engage or don't run as soon as he sees one incoming. Usually they don't help this much in this issue, so no, web is no solution here. Really. I'd hate to loose speed on my Vaga, thats for sure, but the Vaga is not the problem, when it comes to speed, as it's designed for speed. The Vaga deals lousy damage compared to a Zealot or Ishtar. The real speed-issue rises, when ships designed to deal damage go over 3km/sec easily. Zealot and Ishtar comes to mind, even if the Ishtars damage can be destroyed. So the thoughts mentioned in a live DEV-blog 2 month ago to make them speed-mods stacking against each other is not that bad really, as it leaves ceptors, dictors and cruisers ment to go this fast alone. The real reason why we roam around in speedy HACs and not in battleships is, that when we field battleships, we'll get dropped a few carriers on top of us That's when everyone started flying nano-cruisers instead of battleships. So there's many reasons, why and why not it would be good to reduce the speed of HACs not ment to go that fast, but it would only reduce options. Leave the whole thing alone allready, as this game has so many flaws, that this is one of the last annoying ones. .
Satura Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.05.24 21:18:00 - [14] I like to fly nano ships miself, and i kill them often, sometimes even in battleships...alone, with no neuts...nano ships are fine. No need to nerf them. Wouldn't like Eve if would become even slower than it is atm. Takes ages to travel long distances without CJ's, and small roaming gangs will not be anymore. Nerf blobs instead.
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.24 21:26:00 - [15] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/05/2008 21:30:10 Originally by: joshmorris When a curse goes 10k m/s its not nano the problem its the fact that somebody spends an amazing amount of isk on 1 ship and can have a huge advantage. Regardless you cant expect to counter a 2b + ship with a 1 m webber, even then if the curse tried to solo a bait battleship with faction neutralizers and duel faction webs that curse would go down in seconds. I see, I never knew you were a 10k/sec curse pilot to make such a statement. Issue is counters need a boost tbh. Longer range but low power web scripts would solve this (e.g +100% range, -50% effectiveness) -- Billion Isk Mission
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.24 21:32:00 - [16] How do you wanna nerf teamwork? Nanos seem to be pretty annoying, I myself have been faced with a Vagabond once which was going somewhere around 7 k/s but he was doing little damage, so I ignored him, the problemw as that I couldn't do anything because I was sitting at a planet, scrammed, unable to get in range to web the ship, unable to hit, drones couldn't catch up and he kept doing it for about an hour, then I logged off and went to bed as it was getting late. The next morning, I logged on and found myself still in my ship and luckily the guy in his Vagabond was gone. I was wonderig, if this goes on too long, can you file a stuck petetition lolz?
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.05.24 21:48:00 - [17] Originally by: joshmorris Edited by: joshmorris on 24/05/2008 20:53:39 Originally by: Shadowsword Edited by: Shadowsword on 24/05/2008 20:38:55 Originally by: slothe tweak polycarbs to +10% bonus, in line with other modules, then see what we are left with then, keep the price the same. Won't be enough, and if CCP does this, with their usual inertia, there will still be 6 months and more before they adress the issue again. That's what happened with the last "nano fix", and we've seen the result. What is needed is a really sinigifiant nerf, not something that will maybe add 10% to the damage nano ships will take, or a rework of the whole damage and speed game mechanics. Yeah but why ? There isn't a problem to nerf. People say nano is all win. They can avoid damage , run when they want to and engage at will. BUT when they do get caught and outsmarted they take heavy damage , its very hard to get away and they have a big hole in there pocket. Tanking, whatever form of tanking you speak about, is meant to reduce damage, sometimes to a point where you can sustain it. The problem with speed-tanking is that it doesn't just reduce damage, it negate most forms of damage. It's effectiveness is all out of proportions with armor and shield tanking. There's also the fact nanoships don't just speed-tank, but also passively shield tank with a pair of large shield extenders. And 9k shield is a very large amount for a cruiser-sized ship. Any nano user saying he sacrifice his tank for speed need his head checked. This is no different than the 95% resist shield-tanking scorpions, in fact, if you were around back then. Of course they could be taken down, with enough hostiles firing at them and nos/neut. Doesn't mean it was even remotely balanced. It was even defended by the same rethoric you see today. Bring neuts, bring friends, bring specialised ships/setups. ------------------------------------------
Earthan GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.24 22:19:00 - [18] Edited by: Earthan on 24/05/2008 22:20:05 imho hacs apart from vagabond shouldnt be able to go that fast. Remmber that speed not only negates dmg , also most importantly allows to escape, its a tank + infinite wcs in one package.... And yea i remember 95% scorpions lol , and tachyons beams on every bs:) - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy hunting stories
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.05.25 02:14:00 - [19] Quote: BUT when they do get caught and outsmarted they take heavy damage , its very hard to get away and they have a big hole in there pocket. Kinda like a ship loaded with stabs. Imagine what useful mods you could have fit there instead! Yet, apparently, those things needed to be nerfed hard. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Ivan Kinsikor Void Engineers	Posted - 2008.05.25 04:10:00 - [20] Originally by: joshmorris Edited by: joshmorris on 24/05/2008 14:29:57 Its only the people who buy hundreds of millions to a billion with GTCs + fitting their nano ships that are extremely hard to catch and are annoying but they run the RISK of loosing that to a single huginn or 1 bait battleship with duel neuts and duel faction webs everyday they fly it. Fixed ---------------------------------------- *****es don't know 'bout my nano'd Titan ----------------------------------------
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.25 11:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Raymond Sterns Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 24/05/2008 16:12:06 People troll about nanos/speed tank because they can do way more than shield/armor tank can. Speed Tanks can evade damage, chase the enemy, run away. Shield/armor tanks can sit there and (eventually) die, because they have no way of running away or closing in on the enemy if needed. And this is a problem why? Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Rellana DAB THE VILLAGE PE0PLE	Posted - 2008.05.25 11:25:00 - [22] I'd just like CCP to make the components for the poly rigs to drop a bit more frequently,as the other rig parts aren't as hard to aqcuire.
slothe Murky Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.25 11:31:00 - [23] i like the idea of the webs, was thining something along those lines myself. what about a web with optimal + falloff? or diminishing strength as discussed above, could help address the problem.
Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.05.25 12:05:00 - [24] Posting in today's nano thread. Hi mum! Most of you younguns weren't around for the first nano nerf, when we had Typhoons doing in excess of 7km/s and the agility of a frigate as the norm. Stop whining. Counters are available to nanos. You get a conventional fleet with a bit of tweaking and nanos won't touch you. Hello heavy neuts, overloaded MWDs and Webs, minmatar recons, remote reps etc etc. All nano ships with the exception of the Ishtar, Crow and Cerb have to slow down to deal any realy damage. All nano ships have zero tankability once their speed drops or you get low transversal on them. Most nano ships do sub par DPS. Get those remote reps pop any drones and laugh. Web Scripts would be nice, I agree, but nanos in their current form with the current counters can be beaten and killed. I speak as a nano pilot and as someone who has had individual nanopilots and small gangs come to try and bust my gatecamp. It always ends in tears for them. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Kurundo Garon	Posted - 2008.05.25 12:12:00 - [25] sign even though i do not fly nano a lot i kinda like it when i do it. and also the statifaction of killing a nano pilot is great. way better than that XXX BS you kill will half sleeping. i do not realy see much of a problem here. if you fly solo you risk beeing cought by a nano if you fly with two clever think let you catch that bastard :D (and in gang just take a inty with you they are usefull you know :D mala+fleeting web scares nano pilots off or death)
Jade190	Posted - 2008.05.25 12:13:00 - [26] CCP should work on fixing local instead. It's a much bigger problem than nanos. ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
NightmareX Quam Singulari	Posted - 2008.05.25 13:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Jade190 CCP should work on fixing local instead. It's a much bigger problem than nanos. Both local and nanos are FINE. None of them need to be changed at all.
The Tzar Malicious Intentions Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.05.25 13:30:00 - [28] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/05/2008 20:44:44 Issue is not nano, its the counter. Good luck trying to use a 10km web on a nanocurse doing 10k/sec. Solution is web scripts that are lower powered but longer range (e.g 45% 20km web scripts etc). And I say this as someone who has already done the nano phase. Nano's are fine as they are, this idea about web scripts is a stroke of genius however. Maybe rigs that effect the strength or range of webs as well? (see ECM rigs) __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Rawr Cristina Naqam Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.05.25 14:36:00 - [29] Originally by: slothe tweak polycarbs to +10% bonus, in line with other modules, then see what we are left with then, keep the price the same. what I don't get is why Aux Thrusters are 10% and Polycarbs 15%, considering the effective boost. I would have thought it would be the other way around... ...
kamdem Solitude Empires United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.25 14:53:00 - [30] The issue is and always will be that nano cruisers arnt meant to be in this game. Iv no problem with frigates, interceptor or EAF's flying around fast to tackle and evade fire its what they are made to do. HACs/Recons and the like arnt meant to be zipping around at 5k m/s. Id propose somthing like what we have with MWD already but spread to the other speed mods like nanofibres and overdrives. Make it harder to fit (or because they dont require CPU or PWG larger drawbacks. When a nano-HAC can outrun my interceptor you know somthing is wrong.

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