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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 09:25:00 -
[1]
Okay, As some of you have read, I was attacked by players and the sentry guns did not fire - that's not the issue I want to debate.
Currently we are in a situation where Sentry guns are totally random and CCP and the Games Masters are unwilling or unable to deal with it - and that is one of the direct causes of all the screaming and ranting going on on the forums.
Sentry guns per the support information have a range of 150km.
Sentry guns when I attack npc convoys blow me to pieces at 150km.
Yet when I query with GM support why the Sentry Guns as the gate I got shot at in didn't work on a target within 150km, I'm told in a blanket statement.
'Sentry guns have a range of 75km.'
This is blatently false, since I know if I attack a convoy at within 150km, I will die, it also contradicts CCP's own support site. So they MUST be broken - so way are GMs not doing anything about it?
As a result, CCP/ GMs are currently supporting the abuse of these broken guns that don't have the correct 150km range.
I don't mind PvP, getting shot at gave me a real buzz, but we need a level playing field. CCP need to either fix it or change them all and actually - dare I say it - TELL PLAYERS ABOUT IT.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 09:55:00 -
[2]
Press F12 ingame and petition. The GMs will be more than happy to answer all your questions. This thread is pointless. Thanks.
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Aelius
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Posted - 2004.05.04 09:58:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Viceroy
Press F12 ingame and petition. The GMs will be more than happy to answer all your questions. This thread is pointless. Thanks.
Do we have a new MOD squadie? 
Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 09:59:00 -
[4]
I always wanted to be a mod, but they wont let me because I have an outstanding warning record 
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:01:00 -
[5]
Not entirely pointless at all - since either the Games Master is lying to me, or they do not know how the game works.
How can they state sentrys have 75km range when they also say they have 150km range AND in game some have 150km range?
Clarification is needed so that players know the risks they take by entering more dangerous areas.
As many pirates love to point out, this is a game of Risk and Reward - I'd like to know the risks so that I can judge the rewards appropriately.
This is not a comment on PvP nor piracy, so your flame is both insulting and incorrect.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:08:00 -
[6]
I'm not flaming or insulting you. I'm pointing out that you can submit a petition via the petition system ingame which can be activated by using the F12 key. You can ask your question by submitting an EXPLOIT petition and you'll probably get an answer.
So where's the flame and insult?
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:14:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Valentine Keen on 04/05/2004 10:16:22
The petition is onging, however I raise the topic here so that other players can discuss the issue and perhaps enlighten me as to why the Sentry Guns seem to be broken.
Surely you must agree if we could get a firm statement on the sentry guns in pubic it would benefit all players and hopefully reduce the number of whining and exploitation posts.
After all, if CCP or a representative could explain how the sentry guns worked or why they work differently in different places, there might not be threads such as the one bemoaning Zombie.
After all, if they are within the game rules, good luck to them, but I need a decent explanation of the Sentry Guns in order to see that - especially since so far the GMs seem incapable of answering the issue in a coherent and consistant manner.
Edit: I apologise if you did not intend it as a flame, though I felt the comment 'This thread is pointless' rather harsh, since that's a matter of personal opinion.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:18:00 -
[8]
So submit a petition and get all the answers you want. You dont need to start a public thread, It'll just cause flame wars. GMs publicly stated that Zombies werent exploiting in any way, that includes this case I'm afraid. But still I urge you to submit a petition to get an answer yourself, since all this thread is going to do is make people scream either "YES EXPLOIT BAN!" or "NO EXPLOIT STFU!", thus creating a flamefest.
All in all, submitting a petition is much more healthy, easy and reliable than opening a forum thread (thats already been opened a thousand times) and asking for an offical answer (thats already been given on several occasions) from a community (that is known to start flame wars over a bag of peanuts).
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:22:00 -
[9]
Okay fine - so what is the official answer over sentries then, if it's been given? - because I can't find it.
Is it 150km, or 75km, or does it vary between security status areas? - That's what I'm trying to find out.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:24:00 -
[10]
Hit F12 and submit a petition, you'll get an answer.
If zombies did it, the flamefest thread before this had a GM reply saying zombies werent exploiting in any way, so its not an exploit.
But STILL, you should submit a petition and get an answer for yourself. Exploit petitions are answered very quickly, and you'd probably have an answer by now if you'd posted one instead of openining this pointless thread.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:31:00 -
[11]
I already have petitioned, as I pointed out, the GM gave me an incorrect answer that contradicts the CCP Support page and the physical game itself, I have queried it, but am at work so cannot chase it. Thus I am seeking information that might enlighten us all as to how they are supposed to work.
The only issue answered over Zombie has so far been the jamming of sentries - something I am perfectly willing to accept as a valid tactic.
The issue of broken sentry gun range, which I have been lead to believe by several players in game and out, is an exploit, has not been addressed there.
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Jazz Bo
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Viceroy
GMs publicly stated that Zombies werent exploiting in any way, that includes this case I'm afraid.
The GMs said that they went to Atlar and didn't see Zombie exploiting a couple of weeks ago.
How can you know that this case is similar?
Tanking sentry guns = fine.
Sentry guns not firing on aggressors within range = sentry guns broken or something else wrong.
It may or may not be exploiting on the Zombie pilot's behalf, but he has every reason to ask what's going on. And CCP saying publicly that this is a bug and not the result of a valid tactic would be good because then everyone losing their ship because of this would know they were justified in petitioning and getting their ship back, instead of just logging off to cry in their coffee.
Originally by: DB Preacher
Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:40:00 -
[13]
Quote:
I already have petitioned, as I pointed out, the GM gave me an incorrect answer that contradicts the CCP Support page and the physical game itself, I have queried it, but am at work so cannot chase it. Thus I am seeking information that might enlighten us all as to how they are supposed to work.
Well If you dont like the answer you got from a petition then I'm afraid there's nothing the GMs can do. I dont think it matters if GM decisions contradict support pages, the final decision belongs to the GM team. So I suggest that you trust the judgement of the GM team, as I dont think the support page outranks them.
And since you got an answer to your petition, whats the point of opening a thread? Whatever the GM said, its probably right. If you dont think it is e-mail support or submit another petition and another GM will process it hopefully.
Quote:
The only issue answered over Zombie has so far been the jamming of sentries - something I am perfectly willing to accept as a valid tactic.
No, the GM stated that zombies weren't exploiting. He did not state what they were doing or how they were doing it.
Quote:
The issue of broken sentry gun range, which I have been lead to believe by several players in game and out, is an exploit, has not been addressed there.
Player opinions dont count in exploit issues. It doesnt matter if 90% of the community thinks its an exploit, GMs make the final decision, player opinions arent taken into consideration.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Viceroy
Quote:
I already have petitioned, as I pointed out, the GM gave me an incorrect answer that contradicts the CCP Support page and the physical game itself, I have queried it, but am at work so cannot chase it. Thus I am seeking information that might enlighten us all as to how they are supposed to work.
Well If you dont like the answer you got from a petition then I'm afraid there's nothing the GMs can do. I dont think it matters if GM decisions contradict support pages, the final decision belongs to the GM team. So I suggest that you trust the judgement of the GM team, as I dont think the support page outranks them.
And since you got an answer to your petition, whats the point of opening a thread? Whatever the GM said, its probably right. If you dont think it is e-mail support or submit another petition and another GM will process it hopefully.
Well, no, not really, telling me guns have a 75km range when they shoot me at 150km if I attack a convoy isn't really a very good answer and very definately isn't right.
Plus, I thought I'd raise it here because it is a very relevant issue to many players, surely we all need to know the range of these guns?
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:44:00 -
[15]
Look...here is how it is...
There is a problem with the sentries in some systems it seems (the 150-75 range thing). CCP DID say that whoever was taking advantage of this would be banned.
YEs that is true...whats also true is...
The sentrieguns in lower security empire space have been nerfed. It said so in the news a week or 2 ago. From what i can tell from the news the sentrieguns would be less numerous (2 guns per gate opposed to 4-6) and they would be dampeneble. I have not tried this myself so i can't say for SURE...however
Why would the news say this if it wasn't true?
More facts...
The fact that Zombie engaged you from 78km would mean that they are either taking the damage from the sentries (which is possible if you tank them) OR they have dempened them down to 75km or less targeting range (which according to the news would also be possible).
They are however NOT taking advantage of the sentrygun range bug. I know this because the devs have said people would be banned over this, its an exploit since its taking advantage of a bug...
Zombie's action have been investigated and were considered NOT exploiting. Ina previous thread about this a GM came in and personally stated that it was NOT an exploit.
This means that they are NOT exploiting the sentriebugs and are instead using legit tactics to avoid death from sentries, by tanking or EW...whatever the case its legal.
As for the sentriegun range bug. My guess is that 'some' sentries suffer from this bug but not all.
Just to be absolutly sure i'm making myself fully clear...
Scenario:
Givens: I want to camp a gate, there are sentries there, they suffer from the rangebug (75km)
Now to camp this gate without being bannable i need to either stay at 150+ km from the sentries OR i need to use ew on the sentries untill their unbugged range would be closer then what i am at that moment...
The actual range of the gun at that time does not matter since its a bug..
clear?
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:44:00 -
[16]
Quote:
The GMs said that they went to Atlar and didn't see Zombie exploiting a couple of weeks ago.
It was a couple of days ago I believe, not in ancient history.
Quote:
How can you know that this case is similar?
Because I'm usually there with them.
Quote:
It may or may not be exploiting on the Zombie pilot's behalf, but he has every reason to ask what's going on.
Thats exactly why I've been telling him to petition instead of relying on player answers. Submit a petition, clear all your doubts.
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fras
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:45:00 -
[17]
I can see how this issue is confusing for many.
First sentries were changed to 150k
Then it was discovered not all were changed and it was an "exploit" to take advantage of those stuck at 75k.
Now all sentries are 75k, but they're not really because they wern't all changed back.
Petitions are cool for 1 on 1 info, but there's nothing wrong with a public discussion, particularly when it's regarding people knowing game mechanics. It's not like there's a decent manual for this game or anything..
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:48:00 -
[18]
Ulendar, since you seem to be expert in this - is it possible for ONE ship to dampen 2 sentry guns, so that neither fire, and still take shots at me 78km, meaning he is a very, very long way from those jammed guns?
Because when I was attacked there was only one and he wasn't getting shot.
If someone can tell me that, I'll accept it as being jamming, however I don't think it would be that easy to dampen the guns, otherwise every noob rat in a battleship would be doing it.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:48:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Well, no, not really, telling me guns have a 75km range when they shoot me at 150km if I attack a convoy isn't really a very good answer and very definately isn't right.
So the GM stated that sentries have 75km range? Whats the problem then?
If you think sentries have 150km range, then submit a bug report about it, since the GM said sentry range was 75km.
You got an answer and you're not happy about it? 
E-Mail customer support! 
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Bohr
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:50:00 -
[20]
I have noticed that right after Yulai, and the new sentries, they had the names, Sentry Gun, Sentry Gun I and Sentry Gun II (hence Basic, Tech I and Tech II modules).
From that i'm obviously led to belive that they have different range due to their tech level, and as such, better at protecting the gate, the closer you get to it.
Then came a message stating that they were out of order, and due to that did'nt function at 150km range. And some message stating do not misuse this bug.. mmmh.. Seemed to me obviously a note from CCP more or less allowing it in certain areas. After that they changed back to the basic sentries with 75km range. Correct me if i'm wrong.
So now it seems you have some well protected areas (highsec), and less protected areas (lowsec). Sentries have 75km range, wich is nothing for a well equipped pirate, and are therefore not safe in lowsec at any rate.
Anyway, some clarity on what is and is'nt allowed where would work wonders.
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Jazz Bo
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Viceroy
Quote:
The GMs said that they went to Atlar and didn't see Zombie exploiting a couple of weeks ago.
It was a couple of days ago I believe, not in ancient history.
Link
"Posted - 2004.04.25 19:33:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi folks,
this is just to make it known that we GMs have observed this camping in Atlar and investigated it very carefully and there is no exploit involved.
"
Ok, a week and a half then.
Originally by: DB Preacher
Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:55:00 -
[22]
Yes, and that makes all my points invalid 
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Viceroy
Press F12 ingame and petition. The GMs will be more than happy to answer all your questions. This thread is pointless. Thanks.
Pookeh full of wisdom today
You want an answer to your question? Petitioning gets you an official answer. Conclusion: petition instead of spamming several threads
This is not a hijack
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MATANDO
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:05:00 -
[24]
Me and a corp buddy were ganked also over there.
But yes we will petition since the forum doesn't seem to result in much
------------------------------
Audiofreaks
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Jazz Bo
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Viceroy
Yes, and that makes all my points invalid
Yes, it does.
/pours lighter fluid on Viceroy's points and sets them on fire just to be sure
Originally by: DB Preacher
Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:08:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ulendar on 04/05/2004 11:11:35
Originally by: Valentine Keen
Ulendar, since you seem to be expert in this - is it possible for ONE ship to dampen 2 sentry guns, so that neither fire, and still take shots at me 78km, meaning he is a very, very long way from those jammed guns?
Because when I was attacked there was only one and he wasn't getting shot.
If someone can tell me that, I'll accept it as being jamming, however I don't think it would be that easy to dampen the guns, otherwise every noob rat in a battleship would be doing it.
Erm i never said i was an expert...infact i stated that i wasn't SURE because i haven't tested this myself. I am repeating back to you what people (gm's dec's) have stated in the not so distant past ;)
I suppose that IF its possible to damp sentries (as the news states) AND they have 75km range now (as GM's stated). Then it would be very EASY to damp 2 sentrieguns at a time...
Each sensordampener halves the range fo the gun. So 75/2 = 38.5. So with 2 sensordampeners on each sentrie they would have a range of 38.5km each.
If the sentries have 75km range though and this guy was at 78km then they wouldn't fire regardless :)
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: MATANDO
Me and a corp buddy were ganked also over there.
But yes we will petition since the forum doesn't seem to result in much
Wisdom!
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:10:00 -
[28]
Where's skillz when you need him ?
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: MATANDO
Me and a corp buddy were ganked also over there.
But yes we will petition since the forum doesn't seem to result in much
lol so....what were you expecting?
For some CCP official to come in here and say 'ofc mis MATANDO, we will upgrade the sentriegun to 1 bilion range and 1 bilion dam each bilionth of a second IMIDIATLY, ban all of zombies and everyone who was near them. Then we will make an official statement that gatecamping is from now on exploit'??
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:14:00 -
[30]
You tell em GM Vice.
lol.
w00t!
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:18:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ulendar
Edited by: Ulendar on 04/05/2004 11:11:35
Originally by: Valentine Keen
Ulendar, since you seem to be expert in this - is it possible for ONE ship to dampen 2 sentry guns, so that neither fire, and still take shots at me 78km, meaning he is a very, very long way from those jammed guns?
Because when I was attacked there was only one and he wasn't getting shot.
If someone can tell me that, I'll accept it as being jamming, however I don't think it would be that easy to dampen the guns, otherwise every noob rat in a battleship would be doing it.
Erm i never said i was an expert...infact i stated that i wasn't SURE because i haven't tested this myself. I am repeating back to you what people (gm's dec's) have stated in the not so distant past ;)
I suppose that IF its possible to damp sentries (as the news states) AND they have 75km range now (as GM's stated). Then it would be very EASY to damp 2 sentrieguns at a time...
Each sensordampener halves the range fo the gun. So 75/2 = 38.5. So with 2 sensordampeners on each sentrie they would have a range of 38.5km each.
If the sentries have 75km range though and this guy was at 78km then they wouldn't fire regardless :)
Okay, I'll go with that for now, but press on with CCP to find out what sentry guns do and where - it's being in the dark over what to expect that annoys me more than getting shot - especially since I survived. 
On the other hand though, if it's possible like this without massive gangs to jam them, I may have to consider a change of EVE career.
*Wanders away planning EW skills to buy.*
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Lucre
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:35:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lianhaun
You want an answer to your question? Petitioning gets you an official answer. Conclusion: petition instead of spamming several threads
So if lots of people want an official answer to this question, they should all petition? Given CCP were desperately trying to get the petition queue down? And given they'd then not be allowed to quote any answer here anyway...
Personally I'd rather people spammed the forum than the petition queue...
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sutty
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:40:00 -
[33]
there isn't a problem with the sentries FFS, zombies got them sensor dampened so they got no range. Its not a exploit and I hope they kill a 1000 carebears a day
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: Lianhaun
You want an answer to your question? Petitioning gets you an official answer. Conclusion: petition instead of spamming several threads
So if lots of people want an official answer to this question, they should all petition? Given CCP were desperately trying to get the petition queue down? And given they'd then not be allowed to quote any answer here anyway...
Personally I'd rather people spammed the forum than the petition queue...
Yes, and considering GMs aren't always right (take a look at the skill bug issue where people were repeatedly being given inaccurate information) it would make more sense to make an explicit statement about this.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 11:49:00 -
[35]
Originally by: sutty
there isn't a problem with the sentries FFS, zombies got them sensor dampened so they got no range. Its not a exploit and I hope they kill a 1000 carebears a day
Did you actually read anything I asked about?
I asked about sentry ranges, then whether 1 ship could safely dampen 2 guns. Is it wrong of me to carefully investigate the issue in order that all players might understand - and reduce the number of 'sploit' cries?
Also, I'm not a carebear - I enjoyed the buzz of the fight, one sided as it was. I may be new, may have few skill points and be in a starter corp, but I'm just waiting my chance to hop into a reasonable cruiser and join a nice corp with plenty of PvP fun.
So please, keep these irrelevant rambles out of it, they help no one.
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sutty
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Posted - 2004.05.04 12:27:00 -
[36]
I belive its 6 per sentry, im not sure though.
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FENCER MAZECK
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Posted - 2004.05.04 12:50:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Yet when I query with GM support why the Sentry Guns as the gate I got shot at in didn't work on a target within 150km, I'm told in a blanket statement.
'Sentry guns have a range of 75km.'
hmm , odd...
In exactly the same situation my answer from the GMs was:
"You are mistaken, what you experienced was a display bug, the sentry turrets were shooting back."
i won't even mention the part where the pirates camped that gate for 30mins...
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Blooded Heromy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 13:00:00 -
[38]
Dear Valentine, I think you are all messed up angry and furyous because of me, yes i was the one that shoot at you in atlar this time you are talkin about.
For 1st time im gone write somthing here that is not ment to be a joke from me, so now lets begine.
1st of all you seems to have no idea what we are doin Quote:
I asked about sentry ranges, then whether 1 ship could safely dampen 2 guns.
Who ewer got it in your head that sentrys could be dampened is ewen more muppet than you.
Quote:
Also, I'm not a carebear - I enjoyed the buzz of the fight,
Sorry but i think that is not tru but you take care of that with your Dr,Brainy
Did you realy think i am a 13 years old with ping juicy volcanos in my face ?
Do you realy think we use dipers ?
Do you realy think im a retard that jump out of station and shoot at all things i see.
Do ppl realy think thats the only thing we can do, sit at gate and gank ppl, no but its a hell good way to get isk to have some extra bs in hangar so we have when we loose ships in fights.
Do you think im an 13 years old cute girl with blonde hair and no brain at all ?
Or did i maby convoy a GM that was so nice to answear my convoy and ask him if what im doin is ok or not, matter of fact i did and you are just lookin foolish to bring this up in second time in 2 days.
Here comes what i think, i think you should look at map 1nc ewery month, i think your not so smart bringin this up again, i think you should look in forums for exactly the same things you are writin about again and again, and finaly i thing you should think about how you are killin those convoys and figure out why sentrys shoot at you.
Maby you should think about one damn thing before you post next at forums, HOW LONG TIME can a scorp stay alive with 3-6 hardness against sentryguns, and could you mabyt kill the convoys while sentrys are hammerin you fro 50 dmg each shoot ?
When you find this out and have the guts to try it out in Eve but not in forums, that day you can be my wingman for a day and clean my shoes, because then you have found out that some things are not like they seems.
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Amox
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Posted - 2004.05.04 13:15:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Amox on 04/05/2004 13:19:55
They really should state clearly what is allowed and what isnÆt and a nice little post about sentry gun range would be nice.
How ever there are tools at your disposal to help you determine the risk before you attempt a task. Use them wisely. The only way these tools will fail you is if you are their 1st victim.
And besides the first post said this has been an ongoing thing. That should have been warning enough. Sometimes the boards are the best source of information. Beats any map.
Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Oracle, wrecking for 722.3 damage. |
Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 13:15:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Blooded Heromy
Dear Valentine, I think you are all messed up angry and furyous because of me, yes i was the one that shoot at you in atlar this time you are talkin about.
For 1st time im gone write somthing here that is not ment to be a joke from me, so now lets begine.
1st of all you seems to have no idea what we are doin Quote:
I asked about sentry ranges, then whether 1 ship could safely dampen 2 guns.
Who ewer got it in your head that sentrys could be dampened is ewen more muppet than you.
Quote:
Also, I'm not a carebear - I enjoyed the buzz of the fight,
Sorry but i think that is not tru but you take care of that with your Dr,Brainy
Did you realy think i am a 13 years old with ping juicy volcanos in my face ?
Do you realy think we use dipers ?
Do you realy think im a retard that jump out of station and shoot at all things i see.
Do ppl realy think thats the only thing we can do, sit at gate and gank ppl, no but its a hell good way to get isk to have some extra bs in hangar so we have when we loose ships in fights.
Do you think im an 13 years old cute girl with blonde hair and no brain at all ?
Or did i maby convoy a GM that was so nice to answear my convoy and ask him if what im doin is ok or not, matter of fact i did and you are just lookin foolish to bring this up in second time in 2 days.
Here comes what i think, i think you should look at map 1nc ewery month, i think your not so smart bringin this up again, i think you should look in forums for exactly the same things you are writin about again and again, and finaly i thing you should think about how you are killin those convoys and figure out why sentrys shoot at you.
Maby you should think about one damn thing before you post next at forums, HOW LONG TIME can a scorp stay alive with 3-6 hardness against sentryguns, and could you mabyt kill the convoys while sentrys are hammerin you fro 50 dmg each shoot ?
When you find this out and have the guts to try it out in Eve but not in forums, that day you can be my wingman for a day and clean my shoes, because then you have found out that some things are not like they seems.
Did you actually pay attention to anything in this thread at all?
I'm not disputing your right to PvP, gank, camp, whatever, if it's legit, more power too you.
Have I accused any of Zombie of greifing or being (whatever you've listed, I can't be bothered to type it all? No, I have not, I have made no personal comments, no insults, merely asked for details over the game mechanic I suspect may be being exploited.
What I have questioned is whether the sentry guns should have been 150km or 75km, and if they are 75km whether they should be or not and whether using that to your advantage is an exploit, as I was told it was.
I brought this up this morning because last night's thread (NOT started by me, but in which I did detail my experiences) nobody was able to explain if there was an exploit at use.
I went through the gate fully knowing I was likely to be attacked, but what surprised me was not that I was, but that you were able to be within what I thought was sentry range, and yet took no noticable (to my targeting screen anyway) damage to shields or hull and I could not see the sentries firing.
So please, next time you unroll your standard 'whiney carebear reply no.2' please actually check that it applies rather than making you look like a moron.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 13:26:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Do you think im an 13 years old cute girl with blonde hair and no brain at all ?
GODDAMNIT! 
-
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s'inari
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Posted - 2004.05.04 13:28:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Blooded Heromy
Dear Valentine,
::snip::
I think my brain collapsed in on itself reading that...
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Alebert Einstein
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Posted - 2004.05.04 13:47:00 -
[43]
Valentine,
If you leave empire space, the sentries won't fire at your aggressors.
Were you in empire space? Just asking.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 13:50:00 -
[44]
Fair question, yes, I was in Atlar, a 0.4 system in the Molden Heath region of Minmatar space.
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mahhy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 13:53:00 -
[45]
Edited by: mahhy on 04/05/2004 13:55:01
Heres a question: what can players do to counter whatever the BLEEP it is Zombie are doing?
Atlar is 0.4 space I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), so how can a group of people get in there to uummm.. clean them out?
Group of 10 "Ebil Pirate Killers" jumps in at the gate that Zombie are working their magic. Zombie's open up on one of them, concentrating fire on "Poor Sucker #1". Pretty difficult for the other folks to help him, as your ALL in range of the sentries when you jump in. You try to assist and all of a sudden you stand a good chance of being ganked by the guns for initiating agression against one of the Zombie's.
Since I don't know for sure whatever tactic Zombies are using I'm probably very wrong, but some of us were just the other night contemplating this exact issue, from the other side of the gate 
Its absolutely not impossible, but it is a bit of a conundrum.
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fras
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Posted - 2004.05.04 14:22:00 -
[46]
Edited by: fras on 04/05/2004 14:23:49
As far as I know sentries queue aggressors and hit 1 man at a time, so it's highly likely that anyone jumping in is going to be hit after those camping the gate. Also 1 or more of them are likely to be running specialised setups for catching and dealing with the sentries, so you are at an advantage right there.
Get your mates and give it a go... if not take a couple of jumps extra and go through yrmori.
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Amox
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Posted - 2004.05.04 14:27:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Amox on 04/05/2004 14:28:25
And if they shoot the gate no jumping so bookmarks usless?
Does shooting the gate still work?
Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Oracle, wrecking for 722.3 damage. |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.05.04 15:03:00 -
[48]
viceroy rules.
.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.05.04 15:04:00 -
[49]
also, zombie rule too.
threads like this take me back...
:sniff:
.
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mahhy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 15:18:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Get your mates and give it a go... if not take a couple of jumps extra and go through yrmori.
Well, my point was supposed to be "its extremely unclear how these gate guns operate, and the fact that if my corp/gang member gets attacked I can't assist without risking gankage".
Not thats its not doable, its just stupidly risky if all these rules are unclear. Going around is an accetable option of course.
If the group of us had actually known what was going on (i.e. Zombies tactics), and had been able to agree on what exactly the gate guns could/would/might do to us we may have gone through and had some fun. As it was we were out doing other things, so decided that purposefully risking gate gun anger was not a wise idea.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.04 15:39:00 -
[51]
Originally by: drunkenmaster
also, zombie rule too.
threads like this take me back...
:sniff:
Somehow, I miss the old, well thought out posts Space Invaders members used to make - Setec and Drunkenmaster's posts were the ones that really made me think piracy was more than just gatecamping.
Especially with the plaudits gained for Blackbird teamwork and being less trigger-happy than other corps of the time like m3g4.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.05.04 15:51:00 -
[52]
Can somone just harass a damn GM to make a devblog or somthing that states exactly whats going on with sentries. If they have been modified so some are 150km and some a less then fine, no problem, at least we know then.
Can they also post info about gangs and hostile acts since there seems to be confusion over that as well and I dont plan on risking my ships in combat to test this stuff out since im bloody poor.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.05.04 15:57:00 -
[53]
There's no need for anyone with a GM or Dev tag to post in this thread.
There was a news piece about the sentry range being reduced to 75km from 150km, and anyone making use of that would get warned/banned. Then they re-upped the range to 150km.
Anyone can figure out that the range is supposed to be 150km.
Nubi GM's exist too.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.05.04 19:10:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Valentine Keen
Originally by: drunkenmaster
also, zombie rule too.
threads like this take me back...
:sniff:
Somehow, I miss the old, well thought out posts Space Invaders members used to make - Setec and Drunkenmaster's posts were the ones that really made me think piracy was more than just gatecamping.
Especially with the plaudits gained for Blackbird teamwork and being less trigger-happy than other corps of the time like m3g4.
There may be more well thought-out posts in the future, but this is not a good thread to waste time thinking and typing for. It'll be locked by bedtime anyway :/
.
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Blooded Heromy
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Posted - 2004.05.04 19:12:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Can they also post info about gangs and hostile acts since there seems to be confusion over that as well and I dont plan on risking my ships in combat to test this stuff out since im bloody poor.
Quess what, thats what test server is for and maby some ppl have learned some funny **** in there m8. Maby if you would use 10 15 mins in there per day and help out in the comunity of Eve about how things work, then you would know 
Untill then it will be kept as Pandoras secret box 
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Hippey
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Posted - 2004.05.04 20:06:00 -
[56]
You know what would be great here? An official answer from someone. But, I guess the $15/month doesn't entitle us to that.
-------------------------------------------
If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.05.04 23:27:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 04/05/2004 23:28:34
Originally by: Discorporation
There's no need for anyone with a GM or Dev tag to post in this thread.
There was a news piece about the sentry range being reduced to 75km from 150km, and anyone making use of that would get warned/banned. Then they re-upped the range to 150km.
Anyone can figure out that the range is supposed to be 150km.
Nubi GM's exist too.
Well then somthings wrong becuase myself and my corpmates have seen people engaging well within the 150kms mark of the sentry guns with no response so obviously somthings missing.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
GeoNoSiS
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Posted - 2004.05.05 01:14:00 -
[58]
ok.. i only read the first page, but Viceroy.... I love you!
-----------------------------------------------
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.05.05 01:20:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Bohr
I have noticed that right after Yulai, and the new sentries, they had the names, Sentry Gun, Sentry Gun I and Sentry Gun II (hence Basic, Tech I and Tech II modules).
From that i'm obviously led to belive that they have different range due to their tech level, and as such, better at protecting the gate, the closer you get to it.
Then came a message stating that they were out of order, and due to that did'nt function at 150km range. And some message stating do not misuse this bug.. mmmh.. Seemed to me obviously a note from CCP more or less allowing it in certain areas. After that they changed back to the basic sentries with 75km range. Correct me if i'm wrong.
So now it seems you have some well protected areas (highsec), and less protected areas (lowsec). Sentries have 75km range, wich is nothing for a well equipped pirate, and are therefore not safe in lowsec at any rate.
Anyway, some clarity on what is and is'nt allowed where would work wonders.
They have always had Tech 1, 2 and 3 sentry guns. When you blow up a Sentry gun I, a sentry gun II appears, then a sentry gun III, and if you blow up a sentry gun III a sentry gun I appears....when I got a lull in the traffic i used to sit there and chain kill sentry guns
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.05.05 09:40:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Blooded Heromy
Quote:
Can they also post info about gangs and hostile acts since there seems to be confusion over that as well and I dont plan on risking my ships in combat to test this stuff out since im bloody poor.
Quess what, thats what test server is for
No it ain't.
Chaos is there to make sure that things actually do work. It is NOT there so that we can find out *how* things work .. we have manuals and FAQs for that.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
NeoMorph
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Posted - 2004.05.05 10:00:00 -
[61]
GM's arent infallible... I once petitioned because I was getting silly missions that asked for items that were over 60 jumps away. The GM's answer was to get a bp and make my own livestock
Sometimes they make you wonder if they actually play the game at all
-------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Etoile Chercheur
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Posted - 2004.05.05 10:30:00 -
[62]
i wonder what components you need to build your own livestock?!
eek. gives new meaning to having that juicy steak, doesn't it...
Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) | Hadean Drive Yards
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DonPierre Avocodo
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Posted - 2004.05.05 12:49:00 -
[63]
GM's arent infallible... I once petitioned because I was getting silly missions that asked for items that were over 60 jumps away. The GM's answer was to get a bp and make my own livestock
Do you have to use m0o members for this? |
kieron
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Posted - 2004.05.05 14:24:00 -
[64]
This is a known issue and should be addressed in a fix added today. Check out this link for more information.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.05.05 14:28:00 -
[65]
A related problem is that if the sentries are already shooting when you warp in or enter through a jumpgate, the sentries will appear to be offline doing nothing. It's the same thing with mining lasers and similar, probably any module.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.05.05 14:29:00 -
[66]
Thank you for the clarification, we should at least now be a little more aware of the risks we take.
It also means that there's no question of exploiting by Zombie Inc (whereas with the previous statement over broken guns, it was unclear).
In which case - fair play to Zombie.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.05.05 14:47:00 -
[67]
Sentry Guns are not the answer.
They are only support. Taking out the big menace. You should have npc navy ships at the gates from .5 - 1.0 with the sentries. BS and support concord would be in 0.8-1.0 They should have warp scramblers, webbifiers, and ECM target disruptors. The weapons should be mixed, missles and laser and proj and hybrids with multiple crystals and ammo. Use combat drones heavies and scout.
This should occur when an act of aggression is created. There should be stop light type monitors at the gates. Watching for aggression. Like bulletin boards.The Police should not be flying around the gate. Call it police response. In 1.0 the response it like 1 sec, 0.9-0.8 2 sec. 0.7 -0.6 5sec and 0.5-0.1 10sec.
--------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Jake Pliskin
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Posted - 2004.05.05 15:30:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Jake Pliskin on 05/05/2004 15:31:40
Quote:
Viceroy
Quote:
Well If you dont like the answer you got from a petition then I'm afraid there's nothing the GMs can do. I dont think it matters if GM decisions contradict support pages, the final decision belongs to the GM team. So I suggest that you trust the judgement of the GM team, as I dont think the support page outranks them.
trust yer government, you know you can trust 'em
You really are earning your 'comedy' tag Viceroy (the funniest guy in Eve, apparantly)
there is another option here, if you feel you are not being listened to when you have genuine issues to raise...quit game
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