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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:10:00 -
[1]
Well this is pretty simple question and was hoping a dev could answer this quickly and professionally. What i am asking has come about cause of the removal of GTC's. Yea there is a post about that but this is not about that. This has only become a problem cause of gtc card changes. Pretty Simply i just want CPP to explain why it costs more for ppl in Europe than it does in the US
Here is the sub plans for a year if ur in europe and if ur in US
1 year subsciption (if outside of US) 131 Euro's
1 Year subsciption (Inside the US) 131 Dollars thats 83 Euro's !!!!!!
So Please Devs Explain why u like American players more than us european players. Can someone please explain this to me as i cant even see CPP's reason for doing this. Also why should i have to pay more than an american am i not as welcome. CPP say that are standardising payments but they aren't why is it fair that my american friend is allowed to nearly get an extra half a year for free.
Plz i just want the reason why we as europeans are getting a hard deal.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:16:00 -
[2]
hehe yea seems that way or maybe they just hates all europeans :D.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:18:00 -
[3]
And anyway even if that was VAT that isnt Correct it would be for us 100 Euros so where does the other 30 comes from. Next time check how much vat is before u make stupid comments
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:31:00 -
[4]
Akita thank you for an actual useful response unlike some ppl. To Estel Arador yes i think u should pay the same as everyone else peroid.
Akita got it on the nail in terms of what i want. I want everyone to either PAY in EURO or everyone pay in dollars (so everyone pays the same).
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:40:00 -
[5]
Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 22:42:14 Well the fact that is does as i am a EUROPEAN so out course it effects me.
So Gamer4liff u called me spoiled little child cause im annoyed that i have to pay alot more than other ppl. Typical flamer who actually brings nothing to the table apart from being a ****** and just trying to act clever
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 22:44:20 Well i pay 131 euro u pay 83 euros u do the math. Also there billing procedures are all our problems as we the customer has a right to fair pricing
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 22:47:25 Yes i dont care what the price is whether i pay less or u pay more i just want an equal pricing system. Why should u pay less ?
The fact that we used to be able to come close to getting the same price as US SUB by using GTC's meant this problem never came up now there is no benefit to them why should we pay extra ?
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 22:51:11 "Why shouldn't I? It doesn't make a bit of difference. CCP's pricing systems are their own."
Well ur obviously american no doubt. Of course it makes a difference European players are paying so that US players can have it cheaper!!. CPP pricing system is their own yes doesnt mean its correct. As a customer of CPP i have a right to complain about an unfair billing system.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:06:00 -
[9]
Well looks like the forums trolls are about i was hoping for an actual intelligent answer guess thats too hard.
Firstly Barbens just cause the subsciption is the same doesnt mean $15 and 15 euros are the same worth. So why should it be?
Gamer4liff great go back to ur GTC's thats great for u (lol even thought ur now screwed since they are getting rid of 30 and 90 day cards so will make it harder for u to pay that way).
"They already have raised them. I live in the US and I am now paying $15.40 USD instead of the old $14.95. We have to pay a currency conversion fee in many banks due to the dollar being weaker against the Icelandic Kronor."
So u think that adding 40 cents to ur subsciption even outs, trust me it doesn't. Put it simply it doesnt for example u might pay $14.95 for ur subsciption i pay $23.64. So how is that correct.
What i am asking is that CPP standardise there website so everyone pays in the same currency whether it be Icelandic Kronor, USD or the EURO.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:13:00 -
[10]
Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 23:14:22 hehe knew someone was gonna say that :D. I just don't like seeing ppl get screwed over when the solution to the problem is sooooo simple CPP Charge in ONE CURRENCY AND ONE CURRENCY only. Then no matter what the currency is neither the customer or CPP will lose out on money (aslong as the Icelandic Krona doesnt change) but then thats either no there.
Well actually them might lose a little money(as the european subsciption is so high). However it will mean they will make a standardised profit instead more profit from one player than another.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:30:00 -
[11]
Finially to end this discussion everyone should go watch this and smile :D.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lj9Zmir79bs
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:56:00 -
[12]
Firstly thanks for an intelligent response Quelque Chose but i have to correct u on a few things
"1. Crazy European taxes. Because of these taxes, when Europeans pay the same amount as Americans, CCP actually receives less from Europeans."
Firstly the tax does equate to the price difference i calculated atm as being around 97.5 dollars would be the correct tax rate (hehe had to get my accounting friend to make sure i was right)
"2. The US, being a huge and insular video game market, has a certain amount of market clout. Americans (right or wrong) inherently have a mistrust of "crazy moon money" (ie, the Euro, the Pound, the Peso, the Yen, you name it) and any effort to charge Americans in straight Euros will inevitably cost you a chunk of the oodles of money to be made here, falling dollar or no. Welcome to capitalism."
Good answer but doesnt WOW use USD and they don't seemed to have a problem (maybe they are but just cause of there large player base maybe)
"3. You could work around item 2 by having the subscription rate fluctuate with currency conversion rates, but that's just going to **** off customers in the same way. "OMG subscription increases every month! Screw that I'ma play WoW instead." Or conversely, if the dollar rebounds US rates would apparently need to be reduced; who the hell does that? Nobody, that's who."
However this problem could be sorted with a flat rate price then indicating that taxes will be added depending on ur location (every other website works this way, it's so that the company can't get in trouble with any taxman)
"Eventually ...... than about once per year."
However should an exchange rate change shouldn't the price go up for everyone? If u had one currency and the currency conversion changed shouldn't we all see an increase in price. Atm CPP has tried to offset there loses in the US by removing GTC's 90 day cards (effectively raising European prices). If for example we all paided in USD and the USD got worse we all pay a little more to cover it (instead of losing players like u said because of the magic rate.)
"In short, CCP will make precisely as much money as they can (as modified by how good they are at figuring out how much that is). If the current scheme of things is keeping them fat and happy I'm sure they'll gladly suffer through any number of broken english tirades from you."
yea im not trying to say they arent savy for doing it im just calling them sneaky.
"If it's any comfort to you (and I'm sure it isn't) CCP is far from being the only European company with worries from the falling......dollar back on its feet."
Very True however CPP changin to USD would actually help :D well not really but every little helps. I come across this problem every day as i am an english selling selling internationally and trying to cover for the exchange rate means my profit really is pushed.
I just think as considering they have decided to "standardise GTC's" why couldnt they do it with subs yea ppl will be annoyed at first but then once its in place we will never have this problem where europe pays more or US pays more etc.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:58:00 -
[13]
Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 23:59:14 1. Perhaps CCP did the cost benefit analysis and they feel its worth keeping USD subscriptions prices "low" for fear of discontinued accounts.
I live in U.S. and if CCP were to raise their rates I will look into how many accounts to close.
good point that is fair i suppose however the two other comments arent correct what bugs me about it more is that when i live in one country i pay a certain price i move to a different country and i have to pay alot more even thought im still being paid in USD. It just seems crazy when im paying more for a thing that doesnt cost that much even with tax.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:47:00 -
[14]
Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 12:49:10 As usual this topic has become a USvsTHEM thread. As usual the American's people here have come on here whining that i have pointed out a massive difference in price. I actually had to check this with an actual accountant and the simply fact is she said that the price difference has nothing to do with VAT (she checked every high vat in europe).
So to put it simply i have the information i need. Its pretty pointless any other of u american's writing here as i have stopped reading ur pointless comments. Some of u have come up with good comments however u are let down by the large amount of idiots who have posted stupid things like "it's cause america's better" and a loaf of bread costs more here.
SIMPLY it seems that not a single american (i might have missed one or two out there) wants to think about this at all. The Aim of this thread was to begin a discussion on why do american's pay less thats all. However as usual loads of ppl have just come on here to flame without actually reading other peoples comments ( mind u i didnt read the stupid ones).
Well ahh well thanks for all the useful comments and to all the people just postings the same stuff over and over again just get a life.
If come down to the decision American's pay less quite simply cause there a bunch of whining bastards (hehe well thats what ive seen from this thread). Also to the people have gone completely off topic saying thats things cost more in American. THAT IS NOT AN EXCUISE WHY EVE IS MORE EXPENSIVE. CPP DON'T GO OH THE USD IS DOWN LETS cut prices. I wanted to know what the actual price difference was for as no tax covers it. So to put it simply i think it's just down to EVE realising that if they change anything now (even thought they are losing alot of money from americans) they will just get a load of moaning american's saying why do we have to pay more it's not our fault the usd is **** (and also cause they can get away with it).
So i think pretty much CPP has done this just to cover there asses christ if i got this many moaning from posting a valid question about price differnces. I can't imagine what it would be like if they actually put in a flat rate for the game.
I probably wont write anything else unless someone writes something intelligent and to the point (US ECONMICS doesnt have anything to do with the price of eve btw).
Anyway thanks again for the intelligent posts. But as no surprise about 1/3 was intelligent comments another 1/3 was just off topic or funny and the rest were just damm right abusive.
Regards Your friendly Neightbour pirate
Now all go watch this and chukkle http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lj9Zmir79bs
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:53:00 -
[15]
Hellspawn666 ur right there dude u have pretty much hit what ive been trying to say from the beginning sadly this has turned into a US against the world thread so i think A dev should close it.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 13:08:00 -
[16]
Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 13:08:50 Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 13:08:25 Another person thinking objectively "Hmm.
Well I can see this from both sides. What we're basically seeing is the European players subsidizing the americans. People who ask 'why do you care, all you would get is US players paying more, which doesn't help you in any way'. Actually, if the US players paid more, it would help us. More revenue means more ability for CCP to hire devs or buy shiny new toys that make the servers lag less. Stuff that affects me
On the other hand, we might as well get used to subsidizing the US, with the policies they've been following in the past few years they'll be a third world country soon enough if they continue on the same path."
He has a point there but then again most of it has been said already. However i see a horde of post coming up saying more US vs the world crap. As i said this is a discussion not a non US bashing thread.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 13:22:00 -
[17]
Thanks Malachon Draco for spelling it out to these ppl. This is a digital product it costs no more to ship it to american as it does anywhere else. Mind u something i didnt know is the servers are in UK (damm CPP change countries that must be costing u a bomb with there exchange rate).
So people if u dont understand the European Tax system don't posts comments on it. This thread was created for discussion on why it costs so much more nothing more nothing less
Anyway i say each person should go watch this link and laugh :D http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lj9Zmir79bs
From your friendly neightbour pirate
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 13:42:00 -
[18]
Hehe damm u aussies :D
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 13:56:00 -
[19]
Wow another idiot called Tellenta if u actually read this whole thread instead of just reading like one section u would understand that ur comments were very idiotic
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 17:03:00 -
[20]
Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 17:04:26 Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 17:03:11 Quelque Chose yes we do get taxed more but what we have been trying to get at is that the taxation is alot less than what were actually paying. Atm we have to pay 37% more for eve it's that simple. I was simply curious where the 13% goes (24% of that is iceland tax cheers 3card). However out of that 13 % tax there is no import tax nothing so its not a case of whos pay more it's more a case of why is anyone having to pay more than anyone else at anytime. E.g i hear some of u saying at some point u paid more due to the influx of the exchange rate (icelandic to us). Well wouldn't this have happened if they used one currency we would never of had either problem.
BTW spevz or whatever u name is please go off somewhere else to go bashing. ALSO THIS IS NOT A US VS EURO THREAD THIS WAS SUPPOSE TO BE AN INTELLIGENT QUESTION EXPECTING AN INTELLIGENT ANSWER. THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR EURO BASHING OR US BASHING. Now please would everyone stop with the nonsense and get back on topic PLZ. I DON'T want this THREAD LIKE THE OTHER STUPID GTC thread if u have said it there don't say it here please.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 17:06:00 -
[21]
Btw cheers Quelque Chose for giving ur side of the story instead of writing stupid commments about whining :D
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 17:22:00 -
[22]
Hehe yea but sadly i think the euro to usd will settle at this rate, but hey thats what i think.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 17:34:00 -
[23]
Hehe but should a US goat cost less than a EURO GOAT :D hehe sorry couldnt help myself
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 17:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: IonKnight Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 17:04:26
Well, it's true that if there was one standard currency this whole thing would be much easier. Funny how the internet has in just a few years both shrunk the world a whole lot and also made its vastness more apparent, isn't it?
But as of this decade, you're just not going to get a big bite of the US market by charging in foreign currency. Americans don't see much of it so it confuses some of them, meanwhile others are actively paranoid about it, and then there's just the tendency to assume that if it's not available for US greenbacks then it's just not available to yanks. Could that change? Maybe. Probably depends on how far into the toilet the dollar manages to go. But right now I just don't see it happening, and if it does happen it'll take a bigger company than CCP to break it open.
And in my country's defense it's not just us who are like that, either... I understand the Japanese market is also chock full of bizarre etiquette, and then there's the Chinese whom we've been yelling at for years now because they apparently deliberately keep their Yuan devalued as a means of boosting their exports.
So that's why CCP charges two rates, or part of it. Another part could well have been that by taking in dollars in the US they hoped to dodge some of your egregious European taxes; in which case the joke's certainly on them.
Hehe yea its quite funny i don't even know how i got anything done before then :D
So would u mind if we paid our sub in USD also ? That would remove American's fear of monolopy money :D
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 18:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Akita T Let's agree that no matter HOW exactly the price for EVE's subscription is calculated. SOMEBODY will complain about it.
If you make it "z USD outside EU and z EUR inside EU" like it is now, EU people will complain about the price difference and buy GTCs with USD from sites that fail to charge the VAT they should be charging.
Sadly this isnt the case we have to pay in EURO's thats the problem really.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 18:18:00 -
[26]
Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 18:24:30 Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 18:21:17 Yea this is the point we have been getting at. It obvious where it came from but does that mean it should still be the standard
131.00 USD = 9,481.52 ISK
131.00 EUR = 14,949.05 ISK
ATM of writing that is the cost difference just thought i put in so we can see the difference in ISK :D This just seems strange to me that even after 5 years of exchange rates changing that EVE have never thought about changing the sub prices. Especially consdering they are nearly losing an 50 % extra profit by still selling in USD. If say for example CPP told us they were going to use one single currency and everyone would be charged to same would u mind if u had to pay a little more so that everyone had the same prices (as i can never see CPP dropping Europe prices as i expect that would mean a massive drop in profits) and also meant this problem would never occur again. But hey this is my two cents just trying to have an intelligent discussion on something that is quite contraversal
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 18:37:00 -
[27]
Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 18:38:44 Yea exactly sadly theres only two ways around this either make one currency then if ur currency is bad against that currency its ur fault. Or they can say each pay in our own currency and CPP take the profit hit (which no sensible buisness will do sadly).
Would u be happier as an Englishman to pay in USD instead? (as obviously u have alot better exchange rate to that (infact most countries are like that))
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:14:00 -
[28]
Yea does seem a little strange even more for my mate who lives in Iceland and even he pays in euros (to his dimise)
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 20:28:00 -
[29]
Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 20:35:01 Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 20:29:46
Originally by: Tellenta
Originally by: IonKnight Wow another idiot called Tellenta if u actually read this whole thread instead of just reading like one section u would understand that ur comments were very idiotic
I'm not arguing with you. However I think you are also making a mountain out of a mole hill. This is only my opinion, my point of view is the cost of the game is in fact irrelevant when comparing between Europeans and Americans. This is just as irrelevant as the friendly Australian who pointed out he is paying even less. Your desire to change the monthly cost of an account is befuddling to me to be honest.
I apologize for not biting your bait to argue basic economics, and currency exchange. If your argument was to lower prices for the game for you I applaud your optimism however if the price is going to ever change it will be upward not downward.
Well i just see the system as a little backwards as its the only company i know of that uses two different currencies both at the same price. Lol I just think it seems strange why they have it 1to 1 doesnt make sense to me at all why they still have it i just can't believe that CPP is willing to lose so much money just cause it doesnt want to rock the boat. After all they are here to make money and it just seems strange to me to subsidise one country subs with another. But hey im just dont get how CPP function they have made so many strange desisions in the past and yet nothing seems to change :D. E.g. Why use two different currencies in the first place to me it just seems backwards as it makes it alot harder for CPP to increase profit. More to the point if they only use one currency (USD, EURO whatever) it means that the responsiblity is off of CPP and onto the government of the country u are buying from. But hey i do see that it is a good way too cover costs especially when the market is fluxuation so much as it means they can cover the cost with the other currency.
Hehe btw sorry for barking just had so many people post abusive i just took the tone of urs as abusive aswell :D
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 21:06:00 -
[30]
Edited by: IonKnight on 26/05/2008 21:09:32
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 26/05/2008 20:47:08
Originally by: IonKnight 131.00 USD = 9,481.52 ISK 131.00 EUR = 14,949.05 ISK
Actually, it's (roughly) 9150 ISK from a non-EU customer, and 11540 ISK plus 2820 ISK in deductible VAT from EU customers. Without VAT, EU pays aprox 26% more. With VAT, EU pays almost 57% more. The VAT that CCP charges and pays to the Icelandic fiscal authority can be partially recovered if they make purchases that also include VAT.
Say if they get a total of 3 bil ISK in VAT that has to be paid in one year for 15 bil ISK worth of collected subscriptions from (assumed 40% of accounts) EU subscribers (on top of say, another 15 bil ISK made from the other 60% of non-EU subscribers), for a "balance" of 27 bil ISK total (3 bil ISK paid to VAT authority), then they make 10 bil ISK worth of equipment and service purchases for the company this year, then they can ask for almost 2 bil ISK back from the Icelandic fiscal authority at the end of the fiscal period in question - effectively only "losing" 1 bil ISK in the process, not 3 bil.
Akita that conversion was simply on the conversion to isk from USD etc. That is how much they make (before tax) on each type of customer. However i expect the 131 USD and EUR have there vat already calculated into it.
LOl so ur saying that actually make more than i thought hehe so that actually get some of the 24% tax back :D. Hehe forgot all about tax ductions :D They actually make more than i thought :D but obviously i doubt EVE makes that kinda of large scale purchase every yea :P.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.26 23:27:00 -
[31]
Quote:
ofc this difference (or most of) came from the dropping of the Dollar value the last years and thats not included in CCP prizing
Yea this mainly has happened cause when the game was created the dollar was nearly equal to the euro so this is how this has occured.
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