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Re Mi Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2008.05.27 01:25:00 - [61] Originally by: Draygo Korvan If someone gave out your password your teamspeak wasn't hacked. They just read your forums/alliance/corp mail with a spy. Joining a teamspeak server is paramount to opening a webpage, you have no real protection besides what you protect yourself. If someone actually got administrator access to the server and locked you all out, then you might have a cause for concern. The correct course of action would be to change your password, and ban any offending IP. Joining a teamspeak server cannot cause malicious damage unless that user can get some administrator level access. Its called phishing when you scam someone into giving a password. If you hacked a forum to get a password its a hack. If a person gave the password without approval of the owner, its still a hack. If you put a spy into an alliance and use information gained from there to cause damage in RL you are still liable for the consequences, and in that case you are doubly damned and implicate not only yourself in what you have done, but also your friends and associates, you are all equally guilty. This is insane that this is even an issue, its inexcusable and indefensible to hack anyone. Just because a person can get away with hacking "most" of the time, doesn't lend those actions moral credence or legal standing. Its wrong and its against the law. This game is not an excuse to hurt people in RL, even if that pain or damage is small. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Steakkbone Helios Incorporated Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.27 04:10:00 - [62] The proper authorities have been notified.
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.27 07:16:00 - [63] Edited by: Wrayeth on 27/05/2008 07:18:17 When I was in Vertigo Coalition and living in Fountain/Aridia a couple years ago, our TS would get repeatedly hacked while we were on ops again...ahem...BoB. I'm not saying it was actually BoB causing this, but it's a really unlikely coincidence that it would be anyone else, especially since it never seemed to happen at any other time. Eventually, we reported it to the authorities, and not too long afterwards the hacking stopped. In any case, hacking someone for any reason is low and despicable and the perpetrators deserve all the punishment the authorities dish out. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Kyrie Elaison GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.05.27 07:34:00 - [64] Slander is also illegal. Sadly, being a heroic moron is not. I seriously wish it was, but if wishes were fishes, right? Anyway, as always, your tears are delicious.
Lord XSiV Digital Research - Omega Protocol	Posted - 2008.05.27 08:20:00 - [65] Originally by: Re Mi Originally by: Draygo Korvan If someone gave out your password your teamspeak wasn't hacked. They just read your forums/alliance/corp mail with a spy. Joining a teamspeak server is paramount to opening a webpage, you have no real protection besides what you protect yourself. If someone actually got administrator access to the server and locked you all out, then you might have a cause for concern. The correct course of action would be to change your password, and ban any offending IP. Joining a teamspeak server cannot cause malicious damage unless that user can get some administrator level access. Its called phishing when you scam someone into giving a password. If you hacked a forum to get a password its a hack. If a person gave the password without approval of the owner, its still a hack. If you put a spy into an alliance and use information gained from there to cause damage in RL you are still liable for the consequences, and in that case you are doubly damned and implicate not only yourself in what you have done, but also your friends and associates, you are all equally guilty. This is insane that this is even an issue, its inexcusable and indefensible to hack anyone. Just because a person can get away with hacking "most" of the time, doesn't lend those actions moral credence or legal standing. Its wrong and its against the law. This game is not an excuse to hurt people in RL, even if that pain or damage is small. I have a whole bunch of letters behind my name that say that I am smarter than you. In this area. To people that matter. Courts and judges and stuff. Quit your crying and live with it. But just for fun... 1) No damages have occured - remember CCP and EULA, you own nothing. 2) You have failed to perform bare minimum due dilligence in protecting the information asset. Essentially you offered up a publicly accessable internet resource for all to use. 3) You are complaining about something because you lost. Had you won, there would be no complaint. 4) What laws are you reffering to anyhow? It isn't like there is international law that applies; it is specific to each country. 5) Quit wasting police resources; they can be better used going after real crime such as child ****ography. Or are you telling me that because you fail to protect your vent/ts that it is a more important concern than the exploitation of children? Anyhow epic fail. And by the way, if it did go to court you would be out quite a bit of money even if you did find a jurisdiction willing to pursue it. Plus the defense would have an expert that could easily show you didn't do anything to prevent the 'occurance' from happening. And if you think the CCP 'our logs showed nothing' is bad, well your logs would be inadmissable since they are tainted. Anyhow have fun; unfortunately the goons are right on this one.
Slinktress legion of qui Dark Taboo	Posted - 2008.05.27 08:40:00 - [66] Hacking is serious (not a joke and not legal just because it's not illegal in the primary perpetrator's country) and the evidence contained in chat logs throughout Eve, may one day become an issue for all those involved. Imagine Eve chat logs meet Oracle text searches. CCP should really make it priority at least as equal to using macros and exploits. Eve is moving toward 2 primary factions just like most pvp servers always do, and to get there, these are some of the tools employed and sold to their followers as "ok". I list hacking as one of the primary reasons for retiring from politics/diplomacy. I truly believe both TRI and Bruce would be in different places if not JUST for the hacking. To all of those who have been warned, passed intel you've been hacked or suspect it, PLEASE use Eve voice, mailing lists, and other fun things like posting "code" phrases on Eve forums to launch your orders for attacks, etc. Be creative! Bring back the fun! My words are spoken from poolside at the Playboy Mansion in diplomat retirement and do NOT reflect the opinion of my corp or alliance Cheers o/ ~~Slinktress~~
Sekhmet Orion Mandatory Suicide Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.27 08:47:00 - [67] Originally by: Slinktress I list hacking as one of the primary reasons for retiring from politics/diplomacy. I truly believe both TRI and Bruce would be in different places if not JUST for the hacking. Yes it must make it much harder to lie to people when they can read what you say behind closed doors. I imagine that would be a problem for your "diplomacy" As for Bruce, I doubt TS security would have made those ridiculous short range, low damage Battleships effective in any form.
Slinktress legion of qui Dark Taboo	Posted - 2008.05.27 08:57:00 - [68] Yes it must make it much harder to lie to people when they can read what you say behind closed doors. I imagine that would be a problem for your "diplomacy" As for Bruce, I doubt TS security would have made those ridiculous short range, low damage Battleships effective in any form. LOL. For the record my alliance was not hacked, but nice try for an alt troll. As for ship fittings, what alliance doesn't have its random bad ship fitters? OK, some get kicked for it, but still. So, what is your safe alt opinion on TRI being hacked? My statements still do not reflect my corp/alliance, but I do speak the truth with my main character ~~Slinktress~~
Findail Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.27 09:24:00 - [69] Originally by: Lord XSiV I have a whole bunch of letters behind my name that say that I am smarter than you. In this area. To people that matter. Courts and judges and stuff. Quit your crying and live with it. But just for fun... 1) No damages have occured - remember CCP and EULA, you own nothing. 2) You have failed to perform bare minimum due dilligence in protecting the information asset. Essentially you offered up a publicly accessable internet resource for all to use. 3) You are complaining about something because you lost. Had you won, there would be no complaint. 4) What laws are you reffering to anyhow? It isn't like there is international law that applies; it is specific to each country. 5) Quit wasting police resources; they can be better used going after real crime such as child ****ography. Or are you telling me that because you fail to protect your vent/ts that it is a more important concern than the exploitation of children? Anyhow epic fail. And by the way, if it did go to court you would be out quite a bit of money even if you did find a jurisdiction willing to pursue it. Plus the defense would have an expert that could easily show you didn't do anything to prevent the 'occurance' from happening. And if you think the CCP 'our logs showed nothing' is bad, well your logs would be inadmissable since they are tainted. Anyhow have fun; unfortunately the goons are right on this one. You're actually wrong on some points. I'm a senior network engineer with a carrier, and have provided evidence in the past that result in the successful conviction of users... You are correct that an attack on a third party server has nothing to do with CCP. It's between the server owner and the attacker. If we detect a possible intrusion, disks are snapshotted and removed. Disk images are used for intrusion analysis - the original disks remain in a safe to be used as evidence. It becomes much more difficult to obtain a conviction across international boundaries. Some of the electronic crime units I've dealt with have been really good, some haven't. Most ISPs are pretty cooperative when an upstream calls them and wants action taken against a user
Valan The Fated Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.27 10:51:00 - [70] I'm with the guy above. I also work in the industry and it makes no diff what the TS or vent server purchaser reports to the police. You're right they will laugh at you they have more important things to do. If the carrier catches you hacking and they prove it you can ready because in the UK you're violating the fraud laws. Forget the user they won't even know there is a case. It'll be the ISP or carrier that comes down on you like a ton of bricks. So make sure you're in a different country and never travel to the UK if you get caught. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig

Siddy Art of War Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.27 11:08:00 - [71] WE ARE IN YOUR TS, HACKING IT AS WE SPEAK!
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2008.05.27 11:14:00 - [72] TS hacking was invented by BoB anyways, so the whole galaxy should declare war on them as punishment. -- "PT, you are a complete and total jerk." Yes. Yes I am.
Elles D Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.27 11:58:00 - [73] Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke TS hacking was invented by BoB anyways, so the whole galaxy should declare war on them as punishment. It happened, they failed. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Siddy Art of War Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.27 19:08:00 - [74] Originally by: Elles D Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke TS hacking was invented by BoB anyways, so the whole galaxy should declare war on them as punishment. It happened, they failed. This thread over
Cori4n principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.27 20:40:00 - [75] Originally by: Slinktress Eve is moving toward 2 primary factions just like most pvp servers always do, and to get there, these are some of the tools employed and sold to their followers as "ok". I list hacking as one of the primary reasons for retiring from politics/diplomacy. I truly believe both TRI and Bruce would be in different places if not JUST for the hacking. To all of those who have been warned, passed intel you've been hacked or suspect it, PLEASE use Eve voice, mailing lists, and other fun things like posting "code" phrases on Eve forums to launch your orders for attacks, etc. Be creative! Bring back the fun! Hacking is lots of fun, especially considering it has counters (unlike most game mechanics).
Mary Anne Belgica Optimus Serpensis	Posted - 2008.05.27 20:47:00 - [76] Originally by: pipvac Edited by: pipvac on 25/05/2008 22:54:59 Hacking a server, or causing malicious damage to property such as a server is a crime. CCP agrees... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=66956 Thanks for your IP addresses, they have been forwarded. BRUCE alts really swarm CAOD boards nowadays... -- You are reading a signature.
Whorder Marshmellow Shipping Company	Posted - 2008.05.27 21:36:00 - [77] IMHO, TS hacking and all that "metagaming" is lame at worst and nothing else. Trying to turn it into a supposed legal matter because you lost to it is taking this game waaaay too seriously. Like some previous poster said, it's an internet spaceship computer game. Dudes, seriously, go out and see the sun and some real stuff once in a while. There's more important stuff to go to court for. My $0.02 If this post is in any way interpreted as smack, it was without intention of being so. Also, if anyone does interpret it as such, you also need to see the sun more often.
Agif UnderDog Industries Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.05.28 00:54:00 - [78] This = lol --------------- EvEmissions - Level 5 Missions - Updated 26/05/08
Boris Balkan	Posted - 2008.05.28 02:16:00 - [79] Used to have TS Hacking done in my ole gaming clan by a group called g00ns. (Not EVE related....that I know of.) These guys just go around hacking TS to "ruin online experiences". IE: They are idiot script kiddies. TS Has some nice glitches. The designers don't own up to them, but there are issues. Hence why my old clan switched to Vent. Not that it is much better. There are several things you can do to protect yourself from TS Espionage/Hacking etc. If you don't know where to look to find these methods, you have no business hosting public services on the "interwebs". RTFM S
Lord XSiV Digital Research - Omega Protocol	Posted - 2008.05.28 02:41:00 - [80] Originally by: Findail Originally by: Lord XSiV I have a whole bunch of letters behind my name that say that I am smarter than you. In this area. To people that matter. Courts and judges and stuff. Quit your crying and live with it. But just for fun... 1) No damages have occured - remember CCP and EULA, you own nothing. 2) You have failed to perform bare minimum due dilligence in protecting the information asset. Essentially you offered up a publicly accessable internet resource for all to use. 3) You are complaining about something because you lost. Had you won, there would be no complaint. 4) What laws are you reffering to anyhow? It isn't like there is international law that applies; it is specific to each country. 5) Quit wasting police resources; they can be better used going after real crime such as child ****ography. Or are you telling me that because you fail to protect your vent/ts that it is a more important concern than the exploitation of children? Anyhow epic fail. And by the way, if it did go to court you would be out quite a bit of money even if you did find a jurisdiction willing to pursue it. Plus the defense would have an expert that could easily show you didn't do anything to prevent the 'occurance' from happening. And if you think the CCP 'our logs showed nothing' is bad, well your logs would be inadmissable since they are tainted. Anyhow have fun; unfortunately the goons are right on this one. You're actually wrong on some points. I'm a senior network engineer with a carrier, and have provided evidence in the past that result in the successful conviction of users... You are correct that an attack on a third party server has nothing to do with CCP. It's between the server owner and the attacker. If we detect a possible intrusion, disks are snapshotted and removed. Disk images are used for intrusion analysis - the original disks remain in a safe to be used as evidence. It becomes much more difficult to obtain a conviction across international boundaries. Some of the electronic crime units I've dealt with have been really good, some haven't. Most ISPs are pretty cooperative when an upstream calls them and wants action taken against a user No, actually I am not wrong. And seeing as you are only a cable monkey you should know better. IECs bring in people like me when monkeys like you mess up. There is a reason for it - you are cheap and replaceable; nice expendable lackeys to take the blame. If most of you had half a clue you would hire a decent lawyer and claim both ignorance and incompetence. So unless you can actually point to a public court case that got a conviction from your 'so called collected evidence' (and no, plea bargaining doesn't count) I will point a jurisdiction that doesn't under basic forensic principles.... Besides HTCIA knows that the likelihood of a conviction is slim to none which is why most cases are dropped if they aren't plea bargained. Irregardless, you fail to comprehend any of the points. I am surprised no one keyed in on #3 as it is the quick test any judge would use to determine if a trial was even necessary. Dam cable monkeys - it will be nice once they find a way to outsource your job to some 3rd world country...It is one area where there are definite opportunities to gain both greater efficiency and a better skillset.

Nebba Kenezzer Game-Over Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.28 03:30:00 - [81] Originally by: pipvac Edited by: pipvac on 25/05/2008 22:54:59 Hacking a server, or causing malicious damage to property such as a server is a crime. CCP agrees... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=66956 Thanks for your IP addresses, they have been forwarded. I hate to bash Eris, but that post was from before she was even on the dev team. She was a forum mod just like Abdalion, Zhuge, and the gang. Nebba - The Vocal Majority
Findail Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.28 09:27:00 - [82] Originally by: Lord XSiV No, actually I am not wrong. And seeing as you are only a cable monkey you should know better. IECs bring in people like me when monkeys like you mess up. There is a reason for it - you are cheap and replaceable; nice expendable lackeys to take the blame. If most of you had half a clue you would hire a decent lawyer and claim both ignorance and incompetence. So unless you can actually point to a public court case that got a conviction from your 'so called collected evidence' (and no, plea bargaining doesn't count) I will point a jurisdiction that doesn't under basic forensic principles.... Besides HTCIA knows that the likelihood of a conviction is slim to none which is why most cases are dropped if they aren't plea bargained. Irregardless, you fail to comprehend any of the points. I am surprised no one keyed in on #3 as it is the quick test any judge would use to determine if a trial was even necessary. Dam cable monkeys - it will be nice once they find a way to outsource your job to some 3rd world country...It is one area where there are definite opportunities to gain both greater efficiency and a better skillset. OK, so you're a schoolkid. Because you seem to have absolutely no clue regarding chains of evidence, forensic analysis, and electronic crime. I'm sure you get called in - probably delivering the pizza If you decide to graduate from college and go on to study law, feel free to return and make a meaningful contribution
M'Tar	Posted - 2008.05.28 10:21:00 - [83] Originally by: Sekhmet Orion Originally by: pipvac Edited by: pipvac on 25/05/2008 22:54:59 Hacking a server, or causing malicious damage to property such as a server is a crime. CCP agrees... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=66956 Thanks for your IP addresses, they have been forwarded. or causing malicious damage Do you understand what that means? The only recourse in law in terms of hacking, is the amount of monetary damaged caused. By joining a channel, through slack security inflicts how much damage? Virtual property is NOT real money. Good luck with your law suit, you will be laughed at more in court, than you will be on these forums I'm not so sure about that. The UK computer misuse act does not require the perpetrator or the computer system to be in the UK, nor does it require any actual damages. Just the unauthorised access. You must however have something displaying that only authorised user can connect. I'm running off of memory here, so I may be wrong.
Valan The Fated Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.28 11:18:00 - [84] Edited by: Valan on 28/05/2008 11:18:58 Originally by: M'Tar I'm not so sure about that. The UK computer misuse act does not require the perpetrator or the computer system to be in the UK, nor does it require any actual damages. Just the unauthorised access. You must however have something displaying that only authorised user can connect. I'm running off of memory here, so I may be wrong. Don't think so the wireless network that a guy got done for hopping on to didn't have any security nevermind a warning. Will dig the story out. ...and to the guy above I've never come across a contractor or consultant worth a damn in this indeustry. Waltz in, talk crap and disappear deluded by what they think they've achieved becuase they haven't stuck around long enough to see the result. We have a CCIE at the moment helping out and he's about as much use as a chocolate teapot. I have absolutely nothing to do with him, he's a disatre waiting to happen. When it happens the nearest person to him is going to get sacked. PS. CCIE and the other crap aren't letters after your name. PHd and MSc are letters after your name. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Ghaelsto Kakram Mindgamers	Posted - 2008.05.28 11:40:00 - [85] Calling the kiddies that wanna hack TS/Vent to pretend to be important because of internet pixels.
Patri Andari	Posted - 2008.05.28 16:24:00 - [86] Originally by: Acobar Edited by: Acobar on 26/05/2008 01:35:06 Instead of posting on CAOD to a large audience that more then likely has little to add, why not simply change the password and block IP's? Changing the password(s) would be much easier than forwarding them to a provider who will do next to nothing outside of blocking IP's. I manage Network Security for a large International corporation and when we have access attempts from the scourge of society (or a bored drunk person) we take it to the corporate level of IP block owners. They send out an email or letter to the said person that more or less says "Stop it", but a good portion of the time they never even bother to call us back even though we have IDS logs, firewall logs and upstream provider data that PROVES someone in their network is being a bad soul (more than likely drunk or bored). It seems like a very simple problem to resolve that would take a few minutes at the most. Granted, finding out who was recently kicked out or was drunk and gave the login information may be much harder. :) Acobar, Who did your sig dude? Me wants one of thoses Patri
easei AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.05.28 17:35:00 - [87] Now when you say "hacked" exactly what do you mean? What did this "hacker" do to you? I'm gonna find it hard to find sympathy if it was some random **** just playing static / ** / shouting really loud during an op. If he changed your admin passwords and signed you up for a 5000 slot upgrade on your credit card, I might have some sympathy for you.
Syrinthal Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.05.28 18:41:00 - [88] Originally by: easei Now when you say "hacked" exactly what do you mean? What did this "hacker" do to you? Ummm - TS has a load of holes. The most common are simple DoS due to some very bad code in the web interface and others in the core server. There are about 3-4 publicly known ones that all work wonders and make communication near to impossible, as the server has runaway CPU usage. There are two user permission esculation exploits that are also quite commonly used - The one doesnt work unless you spend enough time fiddling or know enough about the server - i.e pretty easy if you have a spy, the other is dependant on OS. But yeah - you can do quite a lot to prevent these exploits, I would think that aside from the publicly released exploits there are many others that are quite well known by the right groups. If you are concerned or super awesome, there's always Mumble (http://mumble.sf.net). Thinking of releasing a simplified version of the client for EVE alliances and stuff sometime soon if theres interest :)
Findail Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.28 20:02:00 - [89] Originally by: Syrinthal Ummm - TS has a load of holes. The most common are simple DoS due to some very bad code in the web interface and others in the core server. There are about 3-4 publicly known ones that all work wonders and make communication near to impossible, as the server has runaway CPU usage. There are two user permission esculation exploits that are also quite commonly used - The one doesnt work unless you spend enough time fiddling or know enough about the server - i.e pretty easy if you have a spy, the other is dependant on OS. But yeah - you can do quite a lot to prevent these exploits, I would think that aside from the publicly released exploits there are many others that are quite well known by the right groups. If you are concerned or super awesome, there's always Mumble (http://mumble.sf.net). Thinking of releasing a simplified version of the client for EVE alliances and stuff sometime soon if theres interest :) That looks like a good alternative Cheers for the link
M'Tar	Posted - 2008.05.28 20:56:00 - [90] The guy that gone done for using the unprotected wireless internet was done for theft, in that he was taking without any intent to return, some idiots bandwidth. He is not the first person to be done for that either. The argument that it was unprotected, and should have been if the idiot did not want others using it does not stand up in court apparently. But hey, the UK is a country that can give you a criminal charge for putting rubbish in the bin, if you are overfilling it.........



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