Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 10:48:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Allaria Kriss Joe, your cluelessness astounds me. That or you're being a troll. Given the negativity of almost everything I've seen you post, I'm inclined to think the latter. But for the benefit of the doubt, I will spell this out for you.
Rorqual is not a mining ship. It is a factory ship. It supports mining operations, but beyond storage of ore, contributes relatively little to the output of that mining operation.
Your second comment is just out of touch with reality and is an obvious troll. Of all the ways to make ISK in EVE, mining is the one that requires support the soonest, and requires the most support, to stay profitable. You can easily solo missions in a Raven for months and make a killing, but solo mining in a Hulk is a joke.
A good mining operation NEEDS:
1x miner 1x hauler
and SHOULD HAVE:
3x miners (At least) 1x hauler (2 if they're alts, or inexperienced)
and BENEFITS STRONGLY FROM:
More miners (The more the better) More haulers (If more miners are present) 1x commandship (Mining Foreman mindlink and all three mining modules) 2x interceptors (To kill can-flippers)
Outside of empire wardecs, and maybe COSMOS missions, mining is about the only thing in high-sec that you want a good-sized fleet for. And mining isn't a group operation?
High sec mining does not need to be made more profitable. Its in reality high sec missions that needs a nerf.
However i'm all for giving mining a large overhaul as there are many issues with it, for instance the importance of veldspar. It should also be an important part of a larger overhaul of low-sec.
But its a more complicated issue than making a even bigger ship to vacuum the high sec belts even faster.
|
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Ev0ke
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 11:40:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kasarandon Make mining an interactive activity, make it interesting. support your miners, they mine the stuff that makes the ships that pew pewers pew in
I can hear thousands off players scream
"WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY ATTNETION WHILE MINING NOW"
I dont see that mining needs fixing its boring as hell but in high sec its easy money and in .0 space its more isk when you pay some attention and do it as team effort.
|
Orontes Ovasi
COGNET SpaceSystems Ltd Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 00:24:00 -
[33]
signed
|
Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 00:50:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
Originally by: Kasarandon Make mining an interactive activity, make it interesting. support your miners, they mine the stuff that makes the ships that pew pewers pew in
I can hear thousands off players scream
"WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY ATTNETION WHILE MINING NOW"
I dont see that mining needs fixing its boring as hell but in high sec its easy money and in .0 space its more isk when you pay some attention and do it as team effort.
if we can make it so you do have to pay attention while mining, then oit might lower the occurance of macros.
|
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Ev0ke
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 01:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
Originally by: Kasarandon Make mining an interactive activity, make it interesting. support your miners, they mine the stuff that makes the ships that pew pewers pew in
I can hear thousands off players scream
"WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY ATTNETION WHILE MINING NOW"
I dont see that mining needs fixing its boring as hell but in high sec its easy money and in .0 space its more isk when you pay some attention and do it as team effort.
if we can make it so you do have to pay attention while mining, then oit might lower the occurance of macros.
Which would raise the mineral prices
|
Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 03:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Allaria Kriss Joe, your cluelessness astounds me. That or you're being a troll. Given the negativity of almost everything I've seen you post, I'm inclined to think the latter. But for the benefit of the doubt, I will spell this out for you.
Rorqual is not a mining ship. It is a factory ship. It supports mining operations, but beyond storage of ore, contributes relatively little to the output of that mining operation.
Your second comment is just out of touch with reality and is an obvious troll. Of all the ways to make ISK in EVE, mining is the one that requires support the soonest, and requires the most support, to stay profitable. You can easily solo missions in a Raven for months and make a killing, but solo mining in a Hulk is a joke.
A good mining operation NEEDS:
1x miner 1x hauler
and SHOULD HAVE:
3x miners (At least) 1x hauler (2 if they're alts, or inexperienced)
and BENEFITS STRONGLY FROM:
More miners (The more the better) More haulers (If more miners are present) 1x commandship (Mining Foreman mindlink and all three mining modules) 2x interceptors (To kill can-flippers)
Outside of empire wardecs, and maybe COSMOS missions, mining is about the only thing in high-sec that you want a good-sized fleet for. And mining isn't a group operation?
High sec mining does not need to be made more profitable. Its in reality high sec missions that needs a nerf.
However i'm all for giving mining a large overhaul as there are many issues with it, for instance the importance of veldspar. It should also be an important part of a larger overhaul of low-sec.
But its a more complicated issue than making a even bigger ship to vacuum the high sec belts even faster.
I'm gonna have to confess, I stared at this one for ten minutes and couldn't figure out why you quoted my post in your reply.
But anyway.
Miners will not bring their shiny toys to low-sec easily. You have a ship worth 120-140m ISK (More if it's got a high-grade shield booster) that can get blown up rather easily by 2 500K ISK Rifters. With the current dominance of nanoships, there is no security for a low-sec mining op - A group of nanoships can buzz in, blow up all the miners, and MWD to safety before they ever take losses. Much easier to mine in 0.0 where you have the same risks but better minerals.
Nerfing high-sec missions is a discussion for another thread, because it'll derail this one right quick.
|
Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 04:05:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
Originally by: Kasarandon Make mining an interactive activity, make it interesting. support your miners, they mine the stuff that makes the ships that pew pewers pew in
I can hear thousands off players scream
"WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY ATTNETION WHILE MINING NOW"
I dont see that mining needs fixing its boring as hell but in high sec its easy money and in .0 space its more isk when you pay some attention and do it as team effort.
if we can make it so you do have to pay attention while mining, then oit might lower the occurance of macros.
Which would raise the mineral prices
it would raise the entire market, but it would stabalise.
|
Divad Ginleek
Gateway Industries House of Mercury
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 06:53:00 -
[38]
Mining is fine like it is. you can solo in a hulk, i do it all the time... i am starting an alt, but thats just because i'm greedy, not because i need it .
If mining is boosted any to make it more profitable than it already is, then suddenly it will no longer be profitable at all, because minerals will hit the market faster, more people will take up mining, and prices will drop to leave us just about where we are now as far as isk/hour goes. ::insert witty signature here:: |
Buck Starchaser
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 07:46:00 -
[39]
"Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space." Quote: Hulk info thingy
Exhumers were the answer to people who needed a ship to mine in 0.0. If you use a hulk you are probably in the majority that demonstrate the failure between the idea and the implementation. They work better in highsec than any other ship but they were made tougher so that they could tank 0.0 battleships and defend themselves somewhat with their good drone bay. The variety of drones available can thwart nanogangs, interceptors, battleships, you name it. ECM, tracking, light drones... perhaps use a midslot? or a stab? as long as you're in a gang with other hulks you can't kill a gank platoon but you can hold your own against most hunters. If you fail to use any number of early warning/preperation and evasion techniques you're still not any more vulnerable than most other ships that would be in a belt. You may say "oh, if I'm safed up then I'm not making money." well it's the same for ratters and mission runners in 0.0 and nobody intended to hand you a free lunch while you watch tv.
I own and operate hulks in this manner with T2 or lesser modules only. I have no dissagreement with making a bigger, better mining ship. But ONLY if it is specifically restricted to lowsec and beyond. The markets in empire are awash in reasonably priced trit and pyrite. In 0.0 it's trit that commands a premium yet the veldspar roids are so big that they shove other roids litteraly out of the belts. I can't use all the nocx that's mined out there. mostly because I run out of trit. I would be pleased as punch if the lowends had a respawn time closer to that of omber/kernite to make people leave their systems and go exploring or something. Perhaps it would get some forward thinkers to develop the tactics and fittings to prosper in the more dangerous areas. Look on youtube, hulks pawn in a fight. Haulers CAN kill vagabonds! I'm training an alt for hulks specifically for ganking. They are THAT good.
This thread has lots of text about comparing mining to lvl4 missions. That's a great measuring stick realy if you think that the danger level of highsec mining is less than or equal to lvl1 missions yet pays probably somewhere close to lvl3's... you can argue that it only pays like a lvl2 and that's fine as long as you come to the understanding that it's long boring work with very limited risk, requiring very little attention (using 3 of my accounts doing a solo or multi person op in 0.0 I still watch tv and don't miss a beat, in un-owned territory, and always get safe in time), with quite a decent income. Another critical differance is that there's exactly so much isk you can make from a certain amount of time grinding a mission. If you have multiple people in the mission it will go faster but you're shairing that fixed amount. In mining you're all making the maximum you can make for those rocks each. To make more isk you have to get better skills and better rocks.
THE BOTTOM LINE: Anything that can have any improvement on mining without further stifling the growth of the game will require something that will encourage people to mine the entire game! Both the easy and the hard parts. My recomendations: -Increase roid spawn times for lowends in highsec -Make perma-deadspace mining places that only allow cruisers, haulers and lower -Any usefull ability for exhumers that only works in 0.4-0.0 (micro ore compressor, illegaly enhanced stripminers, Mining drugs, Micro seige module that enhances drones and shield booster) (Most important) -Community sharing of strategies, skillsets, and ship setups that work well for mining in lowsec and beyond
|
Garthal
Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 09:17:00 -
[40]
-- We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle |
|
Cor Aidan
KNIGHT'S OF THE ROUND ROOM ReZZerecteD AlckemisTs
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 12:12:00 -
[41]
I think, in order to get results on this issue, you have to be much more specific in *what* you want improved with mining. It sounds like there are three things here:
1. Mining is "boring" (there are obviously mixed feelings on this one) 2. I'm not invulnerable if I solo mine. 3. I don't make as much isk as I want from mining.
I personally don't see how any of these are "problems". Given that, in general, there are enough ships and prices have been stable enough over the past 6 months I've been playing, I don't think there are really any problems with mining.
For those that want mineral prices to increase: the posters that indicate that this will probably just result in more minerals on the market, thus keeping prices the same, are probably correct. The reason is that, as others have posted, there is a fixed amount of isk/hour that can be generated from running missions and blowing up ships. Increasing mineral prices would mean that those mission runners/combatants would be able to buy fewer ships and modules, likely reducing the rate of isk generation (or causing them to start mining themselves). In either case, there would be downward price pressure on minerals. Yes, pilots do rely on miners for items, but miners rely on pilots for consumption as well.
My view is that, with gang bonuses and command ships with mining links, mining is on par with other activities - in fact, it's probably better because as far as I know there aren't any broken mechanics with mining, and you never hear of anyone somehow mining faster than their modules allow as an exploit. Like most other things, the highest benefits come from working together rather than solo - even though those benefits are not necessarily "more isk/hour".
|
Venkul Mul
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 12:26:00 -
[42]
|
Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 13:11:00 -
[43]
Where to start?
1) Mining is boring. Well, duh. Anything you can do while reading a forum, posting on said forum, writing email, PvP during, PvE during, etc, is probably not very interactive, and thus boring. I frequently play solitaire while mining. If there were some way to liven it up (I don't know how, but it's a thought) it might be more worthwhile.
2) Not only are you not invulnerable, but if you're outside of high-sec, you're the most vulnerable thing around. Even in high-sec you're more vulnerable than a mission-runner, who at least has to be probed and thus is harder to steal from.
3) I don't make as much ISK mining as I could from doing just about anything else with those SPs/ISK. Therein lies the problem.
I think that the ultimate problem with mining lies two places; the first is in missioning, but not in the way you'd expect. A level 4 missioner who has a salvager tag along can get almost as many minerals almost as quickly (Though not as consistently) as a miner in a Hulk by reprocessing the huge mass of T1 items they'll collect, especially T1 battleship guns. On top of that, they also get bounties and salvage that are probably worth more than the ore the miner mines in the similar amount of time. Add to this the fact that a mission Raven doesn't necessarily cost a whole Hell of a lot more than a well-fit Hulk and you can perhaps see what I mean. Also, the risk of losing a mission ship is very, very low, and interference is minimal. For the same amount of SPs, a miner in a Hulk has a slightly higher chance of losing their ship (People mistake them for macrominers, or JihadSwarm attacks, or they attack a canflipper) with a lot more outside interference (Ore thieves and canflippers).
Macrominers also keep the market artificially low in the obvious way, by mining 24/7 and flooding the market. This makes non-macro mining less profitable as you're essentially competing with robots who are actively dumping cheap resources. Because mining requires so little interactivity, macroing it is pretty easy, which hurts miners even more.
How to fix this? Make mining more involved, somehow. Give it some love. And in doing so, make it more interesting and thus harder to macro. And please, get rid of the generic T1 loot drops in missions.
My two cents
|
Kis Kecheri
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 13:27:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Kis Kecheri The most important boost miners could get would be the elimination of Macro-Miners and isk gatherers/sellers/buyers in general.
Isk gatherers/buyers/sellers? You mean all players/GTC sellers/GTC buyers? I agree that hunting macros would help miners(though I doubt they could do it all that much better than they are now), but your suggestion that the movement of isk is bad for the game is just silly.
The non-CCP RMT, all of them. Buyers, Resource-to-isk Gatherers, Sellers.
Don't put words in my mouth, thank you.
|
Beaverid Tesu
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 14:10:00 -
[45]
When you compare a hauler (lets say an Iteron 5) to a Hulk you would gain more m^3 of ore per hour with that hauler pilot in a Hulk of his own. A hauler only hauls his weight when hauling for 7-9 Hulks. As far as can flipping and ore thievery goes... would you put the bags of money that you steal from a bank vault on the sidewalk outside while your waiting for the getaway driver to come back?
|
W3370Pi4
Lords Of Kaos
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 14:51:00 -
[46]
i would love to have a capital mining ship the rorqual is fun but you cant mine with it
im nt saying it should suck a belt in 10 minutes but something decent and interesting for the miners because after the hulk its pretty much the end of the trip
Capital mining ship idea
Vitreous Mercoxit ! What else |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 15:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kis Kecheri
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Kis Kecheri The most important boost miners could get would be the elimination of Macro-Miners and isk gatherers/sellers/buyers in general.
Isk gatherers/buyers/sellers? You mean all players/GTC sellers/GTC buyers? I agree that hunting macros would help miners(though I doubt they could do it all that much better than they are now), but your suggestion that the movement of isk is bad for the game is just silly.
The non-CCP RMT, all of them. Buyers, Resource-to-isk Gatherers, Sellers.
Don't put words in my mouth, thank you.
I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was making fun of you. Seriously, what could you possibly mean by "isk gatherers" that would make it unsavoury? ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 16:09:00 -
[48]
Yeah, mining could use some loving, like the stuff in my signature link. -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
|
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 16:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Abrazzar Yeah, mining could use some loving, like the stuff in my signature link.
I like the idea of multi-ore asteroids, I dislike the idea of hidden belts only in 0.0, since it will totally destroy the ratting profession. If you want hidden belts with better ores, I'm all for that, but don't delete the standard belts.
(And for people without signatures on, the link is here.) ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 07:02:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Abrazzar Yeah, mining could use some loving, like the stuff in my signature link.
I like the idea of multi-ore asteroids, I dislike the idea of hidden belts only in 0.0, since it will totally destroy the ratting profession. If you want hidden belts with better ores, I'm all for that, but don't delete the standard belts.
(And for people without signatures on, the link is here.)
id be interested to see multi-ore asteroids as well. you could make crystals increase the yeald of a certain ore you get from a multi-ore asteroid.
|
|
Kalinda Veldrin
|
Posted - 2008.06.11 12:57:00 -
[51]
I agree, mining needs some improvements. One place to start I think would be to look at mining in a gang/fleet and expand on that. Look at roles and benefits of mining together and provide a boost here. While something along these lines exists for low-sec/0.0 it doesn't yet exist for high-sec, the completion of the Orca project would be a good start. Giving us more incentive to mine together for greater yield/profit would go some way to remove the boredom of mining and also benefit our industrial corps.
|
marie claude
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 11:51:00 -
[52]
yes a capital hi sec miner would be great while we are at it can we add better ore to lv 4 missions? or have mining missions that dont suck like a hoover? |
GIGAR
Astrum Contract Services Group
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 12:25:00 -
[53]
It's quite simple. What we need to do, is; - Get rid of macros (mining will get a lot more profitable over time, as there's none to "seed" the mineral market 23/7) - Heavily limit the 0.0/Lowsec minerals you get from refining stuff. (Megacyte and Zydrine) (Would make lowsec mining more attractive)
thoughts?
|
Ragnar Darkmane
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 12:34:00 -
[54]
I personally think mining yield and such are fine and I'm quite happy with my ore/time return.
What I am not happy about is the severe lack of ships/equipment which I can use when mining.
Where are the named variant strip miners with lower fitting requirements and maybe a little better range? Where the faction mods? We received MLUs like this but where's the rest?
And I want more mining platform choices. Why can't ORE have 4 mining cruisers each with a mix of pro/con? One with a 5% mining laser range per level bonus with more cargo space or one with less range and space but fast as a nano frig for the ninja miners? Give me options from ORE (true mining ships, not a vexor with a mining bonus as a work around) so that I can improve my mining experience that doesn't involve increasing yields. As it stands now, once you start a mining career your only general choices are Mining Barge or Exhumer. No other race versions, etc. Just like PvP some people would prefer range over yield(damage) or Speed over yield(damage) in some circumstances but miners don't have these options.
As a combat pilot I can have my choice of 40 ships with which to PvE or PvE just in the frig class in the same amount of training time as it takes to train for an exhumer (All racial Frigs to 5, Assault ships to 4, Interceptors to 4). The more choices I have means more fun in being able to find the right ship for the right environment. But with mining there are VERY few choices.
And a pet peeve.....
Where's the mining Command Ship? I don't think they require all command ships to remove their weapons slots in order to provide gang boosts so why are all the mining gang boosting ships unable to fit mining lasers? Where's the CS Hulk with 2x Strip miners and one Gang Link slot? A 2-man PvP/PvE gang can benefit when a CS is one of the ships so why should mining require 6 miners before a CS pilot will be more beneficial than having them mining?
|
Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 05:31:00 -
[55]
new discussion thread here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=809484&page=1
|
Aloriana Jacques
Royal Amarr Institute
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 06:36:00 -
[56]
I support the expansion of mining. |
Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 09:12:00 -
[57]
Mining is fine.
You get to do it semi-afk, you get to pretty much warp in on your choice of belt and get a go at it, and you can do in virtually every system in Eve. You are still making good money, even if its not the best in the game.
This needs a boost.. why? __________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 09:26:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Artemis Rose Mining is fine.
You get to do it semi-afk, you get to pretty much warp in on your choice of belt and get a go at it, and you can do in virtually every system in Eve. You are still making good money, even if its not the best in the game.
This needs a boost.. why?
because its a dead eny profession right now. given its the most important profession in the game (almost everything needs minerals to be made) thats quite a shame.
|
Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 09:53:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Sir Substance because its a dead eny profession right now. given its the most important profession in the game (almost everything needs minerals to be made) thats quite a shame.
Why is it a bad thing? For what, an investment of roughly 5-6 million skill points, you get a viable profession that are you practically maxed out in. You can do it AFK, you can do it with multiple accounts, you can do it out in 0.0 and probably rival what an NPCer can get out there.
A mission runner in a turret BS would just need that in gunnery alone. Even a cruise Raven would take a decent while longer to max out your skills. |
Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 10:36:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Artemis Rose You can do it AFK
only if you are using a macro script, otherwise you need to be there to move it to the station, change roids etc.
Originally by: Artemis Rose you can do it with multiple accounts
you can mission with multiple accounts as well, a cleaner and a fighter.
Originally by: Artemis Rose
you can do it out in 0.0 and probably rival what an NPCer can get out there.
i lol'd. nowhere near it, and that was when i was out there. with market prices dropping, its probably gotton worse.
Originally by: Artemis Rose
A mission runner in a turret BS would just need that in gunnery alone. Even a cruise Raven would take a decent while longer to max out your skills.
i have less then 1.5mil SP in combined guns, drones and missiles, and probably less then 3 mil of my SP total dedicated to fighting and tanking skills. i can solo most of the lower lvl 4's in a passive phoon. you were saying something amusing about comparative skillpoints i believe?
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |