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[Issue] Science & Industry, secondary market

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LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.28 07:27:00 - [1] Issue: PDF. This list was put together by the market discussion crowd. Science & Industry needs a bit of love. We have so many unresolved issues, which we want to have a look at. Why it needs attention: Because this economy, which CCP is so proud of, relies on science & industry. Not only is there some issues with the gameplay part of the game, the secondary market is dying at present. This needs some help. How to fix it: We have made a comprehensive list of things which we would like to see fixed. A "Most wanted" list was also included. If these issues could be fixed, it would go a VERY long way. Side effects: This could be a small essay. There will be some, but only for the greater good. Impotance level: Extremely high. The secondary market and S&I have been largely ignored, despite some fundamental problems. I will accept more ideas for this PDF, which will be shipped off to CCP as a part of our agenda(I'm sponsoring this issue), if it gets a majority vote on the council as well. So if you have more ideas, please post here, and I will add them over a few versions.
steejans nix 0beron Construct	Posted - 2008.05.28 07:33:00 - [2] Edited by: steejans nix on 28/05/2008 07:34:59 Support, industry and mining definatly need some love, all the shiney stuff seems to go in other directions. * edit to actually tick the support box !
Yokan Daifuku Omen Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.28 08:10:00 - [3] Edited by: Yokan Daifuku on 28/05/2008 08:10:29 Specific sell order selection came up in a recent Role Playing issue with Ishukone Aide. It would have been better for Ishu. to use their own agents rather than the market, oh well. I don't know the RP motivation for this though, since SCC is a part of CONCORD and the presumed anti-discrimination nature of the open market is part of what makes it work. All other Ideas are good, publically rentable POS slots are a great IDEA too. *Edit: grammar and clarity. ---- Yo-con Die-foo-koo
Pizi	Posted - 2008.05.28 08:21:00 - [4] Edited by: Pizi on 28/05/2008 08:23:22 great =) one thing i really wantet is restart jobs and renew contract lets say you copy 20 BPC of an item and 1 want another 20 just let me restart the job with the same settings with one click same for contracts and up the limit for max copy to 40 or 50 (i know they limit it for performance reasons, but 20 is a bit low ) _______________________________________________ Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist EVEpedia[Deutsch]
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216 San Matari.	Posted - 2008.05.28 09:07:00 - [5] There are quite a few good ideas in that pdf, but also several which I don't think are that good. It's not possible for me to give support as I don't agree with every single one of the propositions. San Matari Official forums
Ishina Fel Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.05.28 09:08:00 - [6] The problem I have with this portfolio is that for every three suggestions I like, there is one that I don't agree with. But okay, I'll give my tentative support here. It might be better to split up large portfolios of suggestions into a couple separate blocks in the future, though.
Sir Substance	Posted - 2008.05.28 09:27:00 - [7] adobe is saying your file is damaged Vista. would you care to post a text version?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.28 09:30:00 - [8] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 28/05/2008 09:30:29 Most wanted òPublic production and science slots through a corporation POS. Due to the big lack of ME slots in empire, it would open increase the barrier to entry for private persons to conduct ME research on their blueprints, without joining a research alliance. òBuff assembly arrays. There is already a fuel cost on a POS. Why should we be penalized with 1.1 material factors?! The 1.1 modifier is a bit too harsh. ItÆs already an increased barrier to entry, that we have to deal with flying to the POS and having to make sure the cache is refreshed, so we can even start our jobs. Give us a reason to use POS for these things, just like the laboratory arrays are now. òAbility to buy from specific sell order LetÆs take market PvP to the next level! òAbility to contract shares Pretty simple. Let us take shares into item exchanges and auctions. It would be a big buff to the secondary market! òThe ability to bid on auctions in different region Having to fly to another region, just to bid on an item, is not fun. òRemove the 10% bid increase on auctions. Sometimes itÆs just not suitable for some items. Lets remove this. òRemove the courier contract limits(100 items, 120k m^3) Sometimes, you want to have more than 100 items or 120k m^3 moved. Having to do a good 6 contracts, just in order to fill a whole freighter up, is not good. òShare transfer log Really long due. This would allow so many scenarios, also in regards to the secondary market and API. òIncreased dividend amount In this day and age, 2-3 billions isnÆt a lot. LetÆs be able to pay out trillions. òStock exchange(Maybe per faction) Another secondary market buff. We have no secure way of trading stocks in near real-time. This would be a big help. òThe ability for a special role to outsource certain jobs(Science and industry jobs) to members, with a potential reward In order to allow production corporations, we need a way which secures both the contractor and the peon, so that they can carry out jobs for the corporation, make some isk and help the corporation meet its goals, without having to expose themselves to danger. òMore science and industry slots per character, more specialization in general With +5 implants, the time it takes to train in order to even build T2 items and invention in general, this is a negligible barrier to entry. LetÆs make us able to specialize more, so that our skills makes a difference beyond having Production Efficiency 5. òThe ability to do batch science and industry jobs and remembering our selections Putting in 10 jobs, one at a time, is really dull, especially with the inherited delay there is on some of the steps. ItÆs also real dull to have to set the same options time and time again. Please remember the options we select, and give us an option for the interface to select the installations with the least waiting time. òIncreased barriers to entry(Economics of scale, increased means for distributor- and supplier-agreements) Due to the extreme growth of the player base, itÆs time for these things. Increasing interaction between corporations and helping both small and large corporations, with increasing competition by the economics of scale, would take the industrial aspect of eve to a whole new level! òMore long-term industrial goal Yeah, we need more goals. The only real ôend-gameö goals we have at present, is capital ship production, which is not viable as much anymore. òFix the ôAskHasBogusQuantityö bug, its long due. Thanks Bug are annoying. Especially when we are given skills to allow remote buying and selling, but we often faced with this annoying bug. Hopefully it isnÆt too much to ask for. òItems variation Increasing variation and allow for new markets to form, would increase the depth in eve. Why is everybody flying the very same raven? ItÆs nonsense! Lets tweak them a bit.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.28 09:33:00 - [9] POS òPublic production and science slots through a corporation POS. òPrivate jobs in corporation POS òBuff assembly arrays. There is already a fuel cost on a POS. Why should we be penalized with 1.1 material factors?! òAllow battleship production in empire pos Market òSeller column in market òAbility to buy from specific sell order òReworked graph system to show market statistics òOrdering orders(Orders tab) by region Contracts òAbility to contract shares òBatch contracts òThe ability to bid on auctions in different region òDutch auction option òSort courier contracts by size òFuture contracts òRemove the 10% bid increase on auctions. òRemove the courier contract limits(100 items, 120k m^3) Shares/Corporations òShare transfer log òIncreased dividend amount òStock exchange(Maybe per faction) ò(Bug) Double vote implantation bug òNAV Estimation based on wallet and items in public corporation òCorporation wide evemail box, for people outside the corporation to contact a corporation, without contacting one specific person. òAbility to choose the corporation wallet after engaged vs. prior òShare split between private and public(Non-voting shares too) òBonuses to HQÆs, like delivery methods(See outsourcing ideas) òThe ability for a special role to outsource certain jobs(Science and industry jobs) to members, with a potential reward Skills òScrap metal reprocessing skill subset òMore science and industry slots per character, more specialization General òInterbus courier òRemove all NPC sold modules but civilian items(Remove reprocessing for civilian items) òRework insurance to reduce the isk faucet. òThe ability to do batch science and industry jobs òIncreased barriers to entry(Economics of scale, increased means for distributor- and supplier-agreements) òIncrease the need for people to interact with other corporations òRemove T1 loot drops òMore long-term industrial goal òRemove insurance on suicide ganks òME/PE research on BPCÆs òFix the ôAskHasBogusQuantityö bug, its long due. Thanks òBuy order range shouldnÆt depend on autopilot settings (WTF?!) òItems variation API òMore APIÆs! òConfigurable API keys òFix the S&I API data.
Sir Substance	Posted - 2008.05.28 09:37:00 - [10] i support: ò Ability to buy from specific sell order LetÆs take market PvP to the next level! this one, because it will make .01isk snping a less valid tactic. ò The ability for a special role to outsource certain jobs(Science and industry jobs) to members, with a potential reward In order to allow production corporations, we need a way which secures both the contractor and the peon, so that they can carry out jobs for the corporation, make some isk and help the corporation meet its goals, without having to expose themselves to danger. this one, because it just makes sense. ò More science and industry slots per character, more specialization in general With +5 implants, the time it takes to train in order to even build T2 items and invention in general, this is a negligible barrier to entry. LetÆs make us able to specialize more, so that our skills makes a difference beyond having Production Efficiency 5. this one, because it makes me sad that i got PE5 months ago, and haven't trained a new industrial skill level since then. ò Increased barriers to entry(Economics of scale, increased means for distributor- and supplier-agreements) Due to the extreme growth of the player base, itÆs time for these things. Increasing interaction between corporations and helping both small and large corporations, with increasing competition by the economics of scale, would take the industrial aspect of eve to a whole new level! this one, because it means that people wont be able to just "do industry on the side for a bit of cash". its a profession, not a job on the side. ò More long-term industrial goal Yeah, we need more goals. The only real ôend-gameö goals we have at present, is capital ship production, which is not viable as much anymore. this one, because its so god damn true. ò Fix the ôAskHasBogusQuantityö bug, its long due. Thanks Bug are annoying. Especially when we are given skills to allow remote buying and selling, but we often faced with this annoying bug. Hopefully it isnÆt too much to ask for. this one, because every time i see it, my eye twitches.

Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.05.28 12:12:00 - [11] /signed on all of it
Athre The HIgher Standard	Posted - 2008.05.28 13:10:00 - [12] I support the needed industry changes
Snowmore Tosco Troopers LTDA	Posted - 2008.05.28 13:40:00 - [13] Much needed review of an essential game concept.
Block Ukx KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2008.05.28 13:41:00 - [14] We definitely need a stock exchange. BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk
Bokkie	Posted - 2008.05.28 13:49:00 - [15] /signed
BRUCELLA 2 Horizon Fontaine Blanche House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.05.28 13:52:00 - [16] signed HFB, a la decouverte des nouveaux Mondes. Brucella 2.CEO Adjoint. http://hfb.eve.free.fr
Finedele Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.28 14:04:00 - [17] i support this!
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2008.05.28 14:05:00 - [18] Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 28/05/2008 14:05:49 Maybe I don't know so let me ask this: what POS component/module can I use to recycle loot, like I can do in an Empire station? Cause I can't find one. I can refine ore, but not loot. Add a module please.
RaTTuS BIG	Posted - 2008.05.28 14:28:00 - [19] Especially the remember the settings I last used for this BPO for building \| Science -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
NightmoonEagle Matari BackBone	Posted - 2008.05.28 14:42:00 - [20] I'm going to go this bit by bit. Much I do not agree with, some I do. Originally by: LaVista Vista Most wanted òPublic production and science slots through a corporation POS. Great idea, lets also make it so that public income can be directed to any of the 7 divisional wallets, not just Master. Originally by: LaVista Vista òBuff assembly arrays. There is already a fuel cost on a POS. Why should we be penalized with 1.1 material factors?! Most of the Assembly arrays used in Empire space do not carry this 1.1x modifier you speak of. Component Arrays are the only ones I've come across to carry it. Can you explain which others do? Originally by: LaVista Vista òAbility to buy from specific sell order Excellent idea. We can do this already, though. Use the Detail page. Originally by: LaVista Vista òAbility to contract shares As in, contract shares in my corp to another player? I'm pretty sure there is a way to transfer shares to another character using the Corporate Window. Originally by: LaVista Vista òThe ability to bid on auctions in different region Why bother regionalising contracts at all then. Originally by: LaVista Vista òRemove the courier contract limits(100 items, 120k m^3) Got to agree here, the limitation is awkward. However, it is understandable, too. 120k m3 is the size of a General Freight Container. Originally by: LaVista Vista òShare transfer log òIncreased dividend amount òStock exchange(Maybe per faction) I'm not really sure where you are going with this, but a Stock Exchange for EvE would be a terrible server strain. I hate to think what Jita would be like with one. One thing you might want to add to this, though, is the nullification of shares held by people who shouldn't have said shares. Originally by: LaVista Vista òThe ability for a special role to outsource certain jobs(Science and industry jobs) to members, with a potential reward Another set of roles to completely baffle even the most experienced of CEOs, and to cause permissions headaches that take months to iron out. No thanks. Originally by: LaVista Vista òMore science and industry slots per character, more specialization in general Ok. What Production Efficiency lvl5 has to do with how many slots you can use STILL has me baffled. The max slots you can use is 11, not 10. And that means 10 build slots AND 10 research slots. You want the headache of trying to manage more than that, bring on the skill names! Originally by: LaVista Vista òThe ability to do batch science and industry jobs and remembering our selections Once upon a time, before Trinity, you could select "User defined setting" in your S&I window, and it really would remember your settings. Perhaps suggesting this be fixed would be easier than making it a new function. Batch jobbing, may help some, may be a nightmare for others, depends on implementation. Originally by: LaVista Vista òIncreased barriers to entry (Economics of scale, increased means for distributor- and supplier-agreements) You seem to be pushing this "new level" of Industry pretty hard. What is it? The level of server strain you wish to enforce? Allowing for Distributor/supplier agreements sounds like a wonderful idea, do you know what it means, and how would you implement it? Originally by: LaVista Vista ò More long-term industrial goal "end-game"? EvE has no "end game" goals. In industry, it is not just about going further, it is about going better. with Faction Warfare just around the corner, Industrial Corporations will be pushed to their limits to provide ships for their militia. Industry is about survival through the rough times, the rough times are just ahead. Originally by: LaVista Vista ò Items variation If everyone fit their Raven the same way, I'd agree. But a ship is fitted for the role each player makes for it. A base item is required, and too much variation would be server-load hell. NightmoonEagle Director of Research Director of PoS Management Matari Backbone

Mr Horizontal KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.28 14:59:00 - [21] /signed. Agreed on all counts. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Piitaq 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2008.05.28 15:16:00 - [22]
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.05.28 15:35:00 - [23] I would love to see a boost to science and industry, and I think that most of your suggestions would do much in that direction. Supported. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Gilbo	Posted - 2008.05.28 15:46:00 - [24]
Sir Javelin	Posted - 2008.05.28 15:47:00 - [25]
AbdullahAhmed	Posted - 2008.05.28 17:06:00 - [26] Signed and Supported
Kasarandon Suzaku Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.28 17:06:00 - [27] /signed Science and Industry needs a thorough look at and discussion.
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2008.05.28 17:10:00 - [28] Originally by: NightmoonEagle Most of the Assembly arrays used in Empire space do not carry this 1.1x modifier you speak of. Component Arrays are the only ones I've come across to carry it. Can you explain which others do? All the Advanced Assembly arrays do. Its not enough that someone pays for fuel, that the arrays only come with a single slot, they also have a material modifier of 1.1. Added to that, for the duration of the manufacturing job you are at risk from attacks until the job ends. I can see no further justification for the material modifier increase. Other arrays get the time bonus without a material penalty. -------------------
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.28 17:33:00 - [29] /signed for everything except items variation(this is what rigs are for) and removal of insurance(the "isk faucet" effect doesn't seem to be having a negative impact). ------------------ Fix the forums!
Nariana Verex Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.28 18:01:00 - [30] I like a good portion of these ideas; and of the ones I am not, I feel neutrality towards. So I bestow a thumbs-up. Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space.



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