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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:23:00 -
[1]
With the recent introduction of Heavy Interdictors, there's been quite a few complains that they 'obselete' blockade runners. I feel this is not the case - blockade runners have in build warp core stabilisers, but they're also fast, agile and light.
With a microwarp drive, a cloak, and a good agility and mass, a blockade runner is quite capable of getting clear of even a heavy interdictor blockade.
All except the Crane. It has 120 powergrid, which with max fitting skills means you can have a microwarp drive, and nothing else which uses grid.
The other blockade runners can fit a named/Tech 1 microwarp drive, and a basic shield hardener and cloak fit, without needing fittings mods/rigs/implants, where the Crane cannot.
I'd therefore like to propose that the Crane should have 4 powergrid more than it does currently (120 -> 124, or 150->155 after skills)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=592110 is the ships and modules discussion of the subject. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Nariana Verex
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:54:00 -
[2]
I see no reason why the Crane shouldn't have a powergrid increase. A tiny amount wouldn't hurt it. Enough grid to fit all of its slots, and a MWD should be the basic amount for any T2 ship that are built for speed or evasion.
Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space. |
Loreliee
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:56:00 -
[3]
I fully agree. MWD and Cloak is the bread and butter of any Blockade Runner. If you can't fit that, then there is a serious problem, in my opinion. |
Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:58:00 -
[4]
I don't fly one, but I have heard this many times before. /signed -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.05.28 18:01:00 -
[5]
I support this proposal.
EVE has a rich and diverse set of ships, with thematic racial flavor to distinguish ships within a certain class. Small differences exist to avoid stale uniformity, yet all ships are supposed to be more or less good at their role.
This is most easy to balance for specialized niche ships: note how all stealth bombers are more or less the same, despite the caldari advantage in missiles. It's been nullified for stealth bombers because all you really care about is the missiles, and if the caldari ship was better that would be the only one flown.
A similar principle applies to the blockade runner. You are about two things with a blockade runner: agility and speed. You want to either be able to warp before you are locked, or burn back to the gate if you are locked. Slow and mass heavy caldari ships are already at a significant disadvantage here. This disadvantage is exacerbated by the low powergrid on the Crane. Every successful blockade runner needs to fit as many propulsion mods as it can, a MWD, and a cloak.
The crane does not have enough grid to fit a MWD and a cloak, and this puts it at yet another disadvantage compared to the other blockade runners. I feel that the Crane is hands down the objectively worst blockade runner. It has fewer low slots than the other blockade runners, which is yet a 3rd disadvantage, and asking it to sacrifice one of those for a fitting mod so it can do both a cloak and MWD is asking far too much.
Much like the very specialized stealth bombers were normalized so one wouldn't be obviously superior, the very specialized blockade runners need to be normalized in terms of what they can fit so that one isn't so obviously inferior.
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OldPueblo
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.28 19:25:00 -
[6]
Fix the crane tia.
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Jerus Light
Kampala Corp Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.05.29 14:18:00 -
[7]
I Support this proposal.
Regards,
Jerus.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.05.29 14:29:00 -
[8]
A 20m isk PG4 skill implant allows me to fit T1 MWD on my crane... And it sucks. ---
Author of rTorrent, the BitTorrent client for real men and mice. |
Harlequ1n
FireTech Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.05.29 17:16:00 -
[9]
Lets make this ship useful again.
/me tips-hat to James for not letting this issue die
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Some of this may be true. Some might be a complete fabrication. Other parts may be interprative. But whatever the case it's all badly written in a hurry.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.05.29 17:43:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Havohej on 29/05/2008 17:45:39
Originally by: Harlequ1n Lets make this ship useful again.
/me tips-hat to James for not letting this issue die
I'll support this too, just so people can stop whining about how they have to but an ACR rig on their perfectly useful Crane to get the MWD to fit.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.05.29 19:25:00 -
[11]
The stupid thing about threads like this and the whole "assemby" in general is your only going to get crane pilots weighing in to bother to post, so your gonna get a full thumbs up
Blockade runners are overpowered, and i whilst i would agree with you that there seems to be a disparity in fitting, i would suggest ALL OTHER blockade runners should be downgrade to match the crane, thus solving your original problem.
SKUNK
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.29 19:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Le Skunk The stupid thing about threads like this and the whole "assemby" in general is your only going to get crane pilots weighing in to bother to post, so your gonna get a full thumbs up
Blockade runners are overpowered, and i whilst i would agree with you that there seems to be a disparity in fitting, i would suggest ALL OTHER blockade runners should be downgrade to match the crane, thus solving your original problem.
SKUNK
You know the funny thing about your post? It's a comment opposing the thread because there'll never be opposition to the thread.
Personally, I've stayed out of this one because I don't know much about blockade runners, not because I don't fly one - I talk about ships I don't fly all the time. But their complaints do make sense. A MWD is important for a BR, and they should be able to fit one without doing backflips for it. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.05.29 20:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Le Skunk The stupid thing about threads like this and the whole "assemby" in general is your only going to get crane pilots weighing in to bother to post, so your gonna get a full thumbs up
Blockade runners are overpowered, and i whilst i would agree with you that there seems to be a disparity in fitting, i would suggest ALL OTHER blockade runners should be downgrade to match the crane, thus solving your original problem.
SKUNK
You know the funny thing about your post? It's a comment opposing the thread because there'll never be opposition to the thread.
lol true.
Also funny is that by commeting on my comment about no opposition - your lack of giant thumb will be viewed as opposition.
SKUNK
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Ishina Fel
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.29 21:42:00 -
[14]
a ship which can only fit one module is a bit of a joke.
Especially since the one module it can fit is only the tech1 variant!
4 more powergrid to at least fill your remaining slots with cheap passives really isn't asking too much.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.29 22:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 29/05/2008 22:14:43
Originally by: Le Skunk The stupid thing about threads like this and the whole "assemby" in general is your only going to get crane pilots weighing in to bother to post, so your gonna get a full thumbs up
Blockade runners are overpowered, and i whilst i would agree with you that there seems to be a disparity in fitting, i would suggest ALL OTHER blockade runners should be downgrade to match the crane, thus solving your original problem.
SKUNK
Not really. Several people express support for an issue. It still relies on one of the CSM members to action it, unless it gets an overwhelming (and possibly ludicrous) level of support.
There is, after all, a reason there is no 'I don't support' button.
I think that's functioning as designed - an issue can be raised, and if it seems a source of disinterest - if as you say, hardly anyone flies Cranes, and no one cares - then it'll not get taken any further. I've raised it, because I feel it's an issue, and one with a trivial solution, and the point of the assembly hall is to see what level of agreement there is.
I don't agree regarding the power level of blockade runners, but broadly speaking I still think they'd either all need to be able to fit a MWD, or none of them. Not the current situation: Crane has barely enough to fit a T1 MWD, and nothing else. Prowler gets a T1 MWD, and a loadout of one P/G mods. Viator gets a T2 MWD and a loadout of mods Prorator gets a T2 MWD and a loadout of mods.
Otherwise, I feel the blockade runners are broadly balanced in terms of cargo space/lowslots/real space speed. I think there's a separate issue as regards their active tanking bonus, which frankly, is a bit on the laughable side on a hauler, but that's a class wide problem. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.29 22:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab A 20m isk PG4 skill implant allows me to fit T1 MWD on my crane... And it sucks.
There are options for getting this mandatory mod on a Crane. (M in MWD stands for 'Mandatory' y'see).
You can: Use a PG4 implant. Fit a PDS II. Fit an ACR. Fit a 10mn Digital Booster Rockets MWD.
But I still feel that having to do so, to get this module, which is so critical to the very existance of the ship, when the other ships in the class do not (and they have the same or more lowslots, or are faster or both) is ... well, about as unreasonable as if you had to fit a MAPC to get a T1 MWD and a Warp disruptor II on a crow. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Professor Leech
Southern Light Entertainment Black Scope Project
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Posted - 2008.05.29 22:20:00 -
[17]
This should have been fixed ages ago.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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namelessclone01
blackbox ops
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:32:00 -
[18]
i fully support the thread, although i will not benefit from the fix, since i have already trained for a Prorator.
the reasons i chose it above the Crane are stated above.
so /signed
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Kalinda Veldrin
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Posted - 2008.06.02 19:32:00 -
[19]
I fully support this issue.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.02 20:06:00 -
[20]
I agree, this ship has been broken for FAR too long. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
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Rouque Vanderbuilt
Nuts and Bolts
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:06:00 -
[21]
/signed
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.03 02:25:00 -
[22]
I'll do it for you, James, just for you. |
Theramin Dogon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.03 03:05:00 -
[23]
Why is it that you can't use implants, again?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.03 23:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Theramin Dogon Why is it that you can't use implants, again?
The PG4 uses slot 6, is where my Snake or Nomad Omega goes. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Theramin Dogon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Theramin Dogon Why is it that you can't use implants, again?
The PG4 uses slot 6, is where my Snake or Nomad Omega goes.
[Issue] I trained Caldari Industrial V before I realized they had terrible haulers |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.04 17:00:00 -
[26]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 04/06/2008 17:04:58
Originally by: Theramin Dogon
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Theramin Dogon Why is it that you can't use implants, again?
The PG4 uses slot 6, is where my Snake or Nomad Omega goes.
[Issue] I trained Caldari Industrial V before I realized they had terrible haulers
My dear fellow, I appreciate that you are trying to troll me, but nevertheless:
I trained Caldari Industrial 5, around 2 and a half years ago. This was a time when Interdictors, Heavy Interdictors, and medium and large bubbles didn't exist. There were also no ships with a warp disruptor range bonus.
At the time, therefore, the odds of 'being in a bubble' on jump in were significantly lower, since you needed a _lot_ of small bubbles to cover that 12km jump in sphere, and it was possible to spot one on your exit vector with the system scanner.
Tactical bookmarking such that you didn't use the 'obvious' insta vectors, meant that you could quite reasonably avoid trouble.
It was therefore much less relevant, that a ship had trouble fitting a microwarp drive, and therefore the Crane and it's bigger brother the Bustard were really quite acceptable as T2 haulers go.
It's telling that since then, these ships have remained unchanged, and the gameplay has evolved, which has lead to the disparity between this one, and it's fellows.
Hence this post. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.04 18:29:00 -
[27]
james good buddy i like you but there's a few too many commas in there |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.04 19:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Theramin Dogon
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Theramin Dogon Why is it that you can't use implants, again?
The PG4 uses slot 6, is where my Snake or Nomad Omega goes.
[Issue] I trained Caldari Industrial V before I realized they had terrible haulers
Solution: Make them less terrible haulers. Supported. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.06.04 20:08:00 -
[29]
Quote: Why is it that you can't use implants, again?
Since when are Crane pilots the only blockade runners allowed to use implants? If a Crane pilot has to use a fitting mod implant instead of an agility implant that the other blockade runner is using, it's still a 100% valid issue.
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Theramin Dogon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.05 05:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote: Why is it that you can't use implants, again?
Since when are Crane pilots the only blockade runners allowed to use implants? If a Crane pilot has to use a fitting mod implant instead of an agility implant that the other blockade runner is using, it's still a 100% valid issue.
If all he wants is +4 or +5 powergrid, can you tell me what percentage that is? Or how many powergrid implants you would need to get +4 or +5 more powergrid out of the Crane?
It's not that they're the only blockade runners allowed to use implants, it's that he's completely ignoring the fact that CCP allows everyone a chance to bump the powergrid or CPU a few percent without losing any lows or rig slots. By the way, you can use lows or rigs. |
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