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Pliauga
Militek Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.30 05:38:00 -
[61]
I tried FW on Sisi and I liked it alot. But at that point I thought this was something to be released after 2 - 3 months or so. After all the tweaking is done and all the curbs are ironed out. So I guess what i'm saying is - i'm disapointed. FW feels great on sisi, but I don't think it'll work on TQ.
Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Looks like one of the best patches EVE has ever seen so far! Great work, guys!
Can we hear more about taking a bunker? What sort of a structure are we talking about here? Like a small POS? Will it have NPC defences of it's own? Guns or ships? If so how big will the ships be? Can the defending faction win upgrades to the defence by completing objectives or missions near the target zone (ie complete a level 3 mission and 5 NPC cruisers spawn at the bunker)? Also, is there any way to influence the defensive rating of systems? Complete a certain number of missions in a system and you have the option to upgrade a system's defences (such as the amount of faction police on stargates, the difficulty of hostile missions in the system etc)? And could these be implemented similar to storyline missions now (do 16 factional warfare objectives, and you get the chance to increase the defensive or offensive capabilities of your faction)?
This guy aparently has not tried sisi, but he came up with some nice ideas. CCP, please look into these.
---------------- Then again, you guys managed to create the best damn game I've ever played. So maybe i'll just shut up and wait to see how this works out. After all you apear to know what you are doing. And I have full faith that with time you will turn this half baked cookie into something edible tasty and nutritious.
Plia.
---------- DRONE love rulez!! 'mkay?! LONG range/"OUT OF SYSTEM" artillery |
Gnulpie
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.05.30 05:49:00 -
[62]
And ... what do I gain from this?
Shooting stuff is all good and fine. But besides that, what is my gain? And please don't tell me 'glory of your faction'. This glory won't pay for modules and new ships.
-No bounty in the militia sites. LP store is really useless (no other things than in the other stores). I don't get LP for capturing a site or even the whole system. Just some crappy standings with the militia corp? What can I do with that?!
-The 'awesome' militia interface and battleground intel is ... well, I would like to see lots more statistics, that I can browse the systems, people. Have a list of rankings at least.
-Ranks are useless, they don't DO anything. There is no benefit for being highest rank compared with lowest rank. You say it is shiny shiny icon. Are you kidding me?? No better stuff available in LP store, no gang/fleet bonus for high ranks. No additional intel/statistics for high ranks.
-Capturing/losing systems is useless. What do I (or the militia) gain from capturing a system? What do they suffer from losing one? Nothing! Nothing at all. So, why capturing them? No resources tied to systems. No production facilities. No economy.
-Missions are nonsense. They give you nothing which you cannot gain much easier via capturing combat sites or running missions for other npc's corps in high sec.
I tried FW on the test server. And I am disappointed. It is fun for a few days, but then becomes very quickly boring boring boooooring! Where are all the other sides of Eve invloved in FW? Economy? Industry?
Why couldn't you make it at least something more interesting and rewarding? Just as an example: let systems have resources and facilites. If you hold a system long enough it will produce ships which are available for the militia members (each rank is allowed to grab a increasing amount of them per day and use them either personally or distribute them between lower ranks). If system is lost, resources and (ship) production is also lost for that system and it if no production, people can't get free ships/modules any more and need to use their own again... Just as an idea how economy could get involved, systems getting important etc. Ah, alas! it could be so much more improved. Shared stuff for the militia alliance/corp, player donations. Limited hangar accesses. (Public) FW log with entries for victories and also possibility for entries from high ranks!
Really, you wanted FW to be great and impressive? Currently it is not. There are a few good ideas, yes, small combat sites for frigs/destroyers for example. Victory points to capture systems. But it all looks so ... unfinished and done without any love.
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Kakita J
Placid Reborn Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.05.30 07:33:00 -
[63]
One problem I can see with tying system control to "automatic rewards" like production facilities or other resources is that the winning side will have an easier time winning. I doubt that at this early stage CCP is interested in one side "winning" FW. In both theatres one faction outnumbers the other already (Minnie > Amarr, Caldari > Gallente), I'm curious to see if this will have stronger than linear consequences in terms of territory held etc.
BUT some sort of palpable advantage is needed for the people holding sovereignty, otherwise the exercise is pretty much pointless. Gratuitous shooting can be had without ever capturing anything.
I'd like to point the devs towards PlanetSide if they haven't looked at it yet. I used to play that before coming to Eve, it's basically an MMO FPS with territorial control. The faction currently controlling a zone had access to its production and defense facilities (stations of some sort), zones changed hands by an enemy sitting at a control inside the station for long enough, so not quite dissimilar.
One catch that made it interesting was that these production and defense sites could be hacked. You could hack them to provide your (opposing) faction to be served vehicles, or to be able to use defensive turrets. Another option could be sabotaging, so that the facility does not yield anything for a given time. Needless to say, there's already a hacking skill in Eve.
Now, what could the facitilies provide, since giving out free ships is probably not in the interest of Dr. Eijo? One point are the defensive measures, for example there could be defensive turrets (like POS modules) around the control bunker that are inactive, unless used (via the Starbase Defense Manager skill as usual). Since giving out free ships and modules is somewhat out of the question, the next best thing would be handing out more/better defensive NPCs. I realize that defending NPCs automatically spawn in the contested sites once you hold a system (per definition), but what about, once you hold a constellation, the whole constellation is upgraded to a higher tier of NPCs? This makes it harder to claim, but at the same time provides attackers with higher incentives (via loot/tags).
Or look at the number of immediately neighbouring claimed systems, or the fraction of neighbouring claimed systems. The higher the fraction of claimed to non-claimed systems, the stronger the defending NPCs will be.
Since system control only changes at DT, no dynamic checking for NPC spawns will be needed, and either of these proposed mechanisms would be live for at least one day at a time.
-------------------------------------- "They better fix the *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* jump *bleep* gates before I *bleep**bleep**bleep* and then some."
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Kakita J
Placid Reborn Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.05.30 07:37:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Kakita J on 30/05/2008 07:39:09 Another suggestion, to make high ranks appealing:
What about every FW Militia member, no matter how insignificant, has the option of calling NPC wingmen once a day (or whatever, it should be rarely enough so it can't be spammed by a long shot). The higher your rank, the better NPCs spawn in your vicinity.
This mechanism could give rise to AoS-type battles, where you have the pod pilots as "commanders" or "heroes" of some sort, leaning on the support of or supporting their "minion" NPCs.
-------------------------------------- "They better fix the *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* jump *bleep* gates before I *bleep**bleep**bleep* and then some."
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Hykke
Free Imperial Vikings
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Posted - 2008.05.30 08:24:00 -
[65]
My main concern is that one of the sides in this conflict will simply win, perhaps not by concering system perhaps not by conquering systems (which seems inconsequential right now) but by inflicting so much financial damage to the other faction that all corps quit the militia.
Then whenever a corp joins the Gallente militia, there will be 50 combat oriented corps waiting to beat them up, causing all corps that join the Gallente to quickly quit again because of losses.
My second concern is about POS warfare, corps with good faction standings can easily set up POS'es in a system, but what will their role be in faction warfare, and specifically what happens if you have a pos in a system that changes sovereignity. (This could impact non-militia POS as well)
And of course there should be something to be gained by the militias by maintaining sovereignity in a large number of systems, while at the same time it should somehow be made increasingly difficult to maintain sovereignity as the number of systems increases. (There might already be increasing difficulty, it has just not been mentioned by CCP).
Oh and actually I would love to see more action in low-sec space, but actually I would love to see changes that attracted more industrialists out there. Having lots of industrialists out there would create profitable PVP targets. ----------------------------------- Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum |
Gnulpie
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.05.30 08:44:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Hykke My second concern is about POS warfare...and specifically what happens if you have a pos in a system that changes sovereignity. (This could impact non-militia POS as well)
Sovereignity doesn't change. CCP introduced a new layer called occupancy. Only occupancy changes with factional warfare, not the sovereignity.
While sovereignity is the de-jure possession of the system (claimed on the paper), occupancy is the de-facto possession (claimed in reality). Those two things are not always the same
It is an idea that occupancy in your own systems would let the pos cost less fuel, or boost defences or such. And the other way, that enemy occupancy weakens them. That would give people some more serious reason to fight for a system.
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Qual
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2008.05.30 10:05:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Qual on 30/05/2008 10:07:11
Originally by: Hykke
Oh and actually I would love to see more action in low-sec space, but actually I would love to see changes that attracted more industrialists out there. Having lots of industrialists out there would create profitable PVP targets.
I (as an industrialist) would like to see objectives added that required you to build/research stuff that was limited to run as jobs in the militia stations, and then have to deploy it in those systems.
I am thinking building a "Covert Sensor Array" that you then had to anchor in a hostile system. I am thinking copying and then invention on a "Counter Intelligence" BPO that takes Datacores and Decryptors as input that drops from other FW missions, and that when completed in a system adds points for you faction in that system.
But thats just dreaming for now.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:06:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Qual Edited by: Qual on 30/05/2008 10:07:11
Originally by: Hykke
Oh and actually I would love to see more action in low-sec space, but actually I would love to see changes that attracted more industrialists out there. Having lots of industrialists out there would create profitable PVP targets.
I (as an industrialist) would like to see objectives added that required you to build/research stuff that was limited to run as jobs in the militia stations, and then have to deploy it in those systems.
I am thinking building a "Covert Sensor Array" that you then had to anchor in a hostile system. I am thinking copying and then invention on a "Counter Intelligence" BPO that takes Datacores and Decryptors as input that drops from other FW missions, and that when completed in a system adds points for you faction in that system.
But thats just dreaming for now.
This would be awesome. Production and fancy goods should matter, ships aside.
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Prez21
coracao ardente Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:39:00 -
[69]
Theres way to many whinning from certain people, on paper FW looks like it could be a whole lot of fun and a great way for people to learn pvp or for already established pvpers to try somthing different.
It shouldnt be about rewards, the pvp and fun to be had is enough and if you think it will be an isk sink just fly t1 frigs or destroyers and have abit of fun, you never know you might actualy enjoy it. As for FW being alittle harsh due to the chance of pirates and other non-fw players getting involved that just adds to the experience and you will soon learn from it and maybe improve enough to start giving alittle payback out to the pirates who attack you.
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:45:00 -
[70]
looks fun but definately want to see bigger impacts on EVE as a whole from this. ...
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Recluse Viramor
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:54:00 -
[71]
Such a let down on so many levels.
I expected so much more from CCP with FW with how long it has been in the works.
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Midas Man
Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.05.30 12:39:00 -
[72]
I am very dissapointed with CCP on this after 3 or more years of development this is all they could come up with, a few ranks (names for standings), a new region, a few new missions and enabling MWD's in some deadspace. I can only assume they started developing EVE back in 1901 if it took this long to do...nothing.
FW might be fun in 3 years time when they have fixed all the bugs and added in some reason to take part. Or maybe it will just die and CCP can string us along with the next (insert exciting idea here) development.
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2008.05.30 12:44:00 -
[73]
I don't know what you lot are wingeing about this looks ace, seems like planetside in space to me and if it is then its gonna be wicked, i might even end up leaving my alliance to come and play... |
Serret Nevets
The Hull Miners Union The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.05.30 14:21:00 -
[74]
I have some questions:
What happens to traitor? ie, I join a militia, we go out to low sec and I start killing off my own side? Standing problems? Will I take a security hit? Will the gate guns fire on me? Will I be kicked out of the militia? Does the other side get the credit for the kills or does my side?
Carebear at heart, but peer pressure gets the better of me. |
Caiman Graystock
Quantum of Solace
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Posted - 2008.05.30 15:32:00 -
[75]
Would have been great if all empire space became contestable, I had hope to see Caldari Prime back in the hands of its rightful owners.
At the moment, it all seems exactly like what we all have already, with faction stickers on.
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Kala Veijo
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:16:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Kala Veijo on 30/05/2008 17:16:36 Is there a game mechanic that would prevent ebil people (me) from sitting on acceleration gates to missions?
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Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:42:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Kala Veijo Edited by: Kala Veijo on 30/05/2008 17:16:36 Is there a game mechanic that would prevent ebil people (me) from sitting on acceleration gates to missions?
None what so ever. You simply have to wait for someone to go to their mission, wait for the beacon to show (once they warp in), then go camp it.
And as far as what happens to people who attack friendlies(same militia), stop asking this question and freaking READ THE EARLIER POSTS. This has been answered quite a few times in quite a few threads. If you attack someone in the same militia as you, you get a significant standings decrease, and if you drop below .5 standing, you get booted.
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Hakuriu
Core Element Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:10:00 -
[78]
I haven't had a chance to hit the test server or I'm sure I'd know, but...
How do members of your faction and members of opposing factions show up in the overview? Is it like the alliance / war target indicators? Will opposing faction members show up as war targets? Are there new overview settings?
Thanks in advance. |
Phase Three
Fire Suppression
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:32:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Kala Veijo Edited by: Kala Veijo on 30/05/2008 17:16:36 Is there a game mechanic that would prevent ebil people (me) from sitting on acceleration gates to missions?
I hope not as you would make a great target
Many of those doing the f/w will be carebears so I would guess you will get some easy kills. It won't be long before the f/w mission runners think that a PVE officer or T2 fitted CNR is probably not the best ship for f/w.
As for ebil people camping the gates to the deadspace or camping the system gates it will depend on how organised they are for low sec f/w missions. My guess is that many (like me) who will try f/w will not be at all organised and it will take time to build up trust between players. Whats to stop someone organising a gang only to lead them to Kala Veijo's Pirate gang
It will be differnet thats for sure. At least I can try PVP without joining a large alliance.
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.05.30 20:45:00 -
[80]
Where are the pictures of the in game content?
The new map stuff, what the hell these things will look like on the overview, or inside...
Discrete system maps/lists of names?
A little concrete information would go long way. I realize it's a dev blog, but you're using it to disseminate information about the expansion. And quite frankly it sucks. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.05.31 01:56:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Hykke My main concern is that one of the sides in this conflict will simply win
Maybe that's not a bad thing. I'm sure CCP can think of something to delay the victory of one side , make the losing side more attractive with better ISK / faction rewards or whatever. But ultimately , if the gallente militias station capital fleets in Jita and most other important caldari systems , the caldari state as it is should die. Maybe try to take a piece of 0.0 , like defeated player alliances do - but not remain invulnerable to player actions. It's only a true sandbox if we can change the Eve universe. Not just give your faction better stats , but destroy the enemy completely.
Eve will be truly player run once real alliances overthrow a NPC empire.
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DeadDuck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.31 10:40:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Gnulpie Edited by: Gnulpie on 30/05/2008 06:02:45 And ... what do I gain from this?
Shooting stuff is all good and fine. But besides that, what is my gain? And please don't tell me 'glory of your faction'. This glory won't pay for modules and new ships.
If you are going to FW thinking in missions you are wrong... What do you gain you ask ???? Well I can't join FW but for me it would be more then enough fighting for the Amarr Empire.
A lot of people in empire seem to be enthusiastic about FW, but if you ask me big majority of the people will quit FW after a few days when they discover that FW is a very good way to die to pirates, enemys, camps, ambushes, and on the top of it, isks are not there, and thats how it should work.
You will need leadership, you will need PVP training, you will need strategy. I just cant see a group of pilots that really dont know each other, most of them without combat practice succeed there. Pirate Corps, and a few Empire PVP corporations will just slaughter the militias on both sides. With time the number of pilots will drop or the activity will be so low that they will not have real impact on the general scenario.
Maybe at that time CCP will let Alliances join FW. Where all what it takes to make FW work is there.
In the mean time if you want to gain something... join a Pirate corp
________________ God is my Wingman |
Groox
noli turbare circulos meos
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Posted - 2008.05.31 13:09:00 -
[83]
Sounds interesting.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.31 15:40:00 -
[84]
CANT WAIT
to eat some newbs!
Imagine all these 'first time to pvp'ers' coming out in best named guns and BS's getting their **** pushed in. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Phase Three
Fire Suppression
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Posted - 2008.05.31 16:10:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg CANT WAIT
to eat some newbs!
Imagine all these 'first time to pvp'ers' coming out in best named guns and BS's getting their **** pushed in.
And just imagine how you will feel when you get owned by these 1st timers.
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.01 01:17:00 -
[86]
Dev-blogs FTW!
And this is starting to interest me. Frigate/destroyer only sites? Now that would be some fun for newer players to get into because of the very low-level of loss it would incur.
And honestly, once you have a few frigate fights ... well, logical progression.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.06.01 01:38:00 -
[87]
Originally by: DeadDuck
You will need leadership, you will need PVP training, you will need strategy. I just cant see a group of pilots that really dont know each other, most of them without combat practice succeed there. Pirate Corps, and a few Empire PVP corporations will just slaughter the militias on both sides. With time the number of pilots will drop or the activity will be so low that they will not have real impact on the general scenario.
Perhaps what FW really needs is strategy and generals. From the sounds of it FW is very undirrected, a mosh pit of fighting with no real structure or dirrection execpt repeditive autogenrated missions with no real impact.
What it could probably use is actual direction from the top down, stategy, impact. Supply lines, infrastructure, targets, goals, fleet action vs gorrilia warefare.
But it kinda looks like just more 'magic infinate resources' with strcutures and ships appearing out of the ether.
FW is not war. Not by a long shot.
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Saiutt
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Posted - 2008.06.01 06:02:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Saiutt on 01/06/2008 06:07:20 I think its a great idea but its definitely not ready for release and wont be for months. When did planning and development of FW start? I heard of Ambulation long before FW.
If released on the 10th I think it will either a) Ruin whole swathes of the galaxy making players mostly abandon them to pirates and <1month noobs or b) Just be a total flop and life will continue as normal with a few players giving it a go once.
It would be slightly embarrassing for CCP to say 'actualy, we're going to shelf this for now.' But I think that would really be the best course of action and far less embarrassing than messing up the game and having to remove FW later. But please keep developing it; the concept of solo/small group faction war PVP is good. Its just the implementation that needs to be seriously different..IMO.
In the area of serriously different implementation I agree with the previous poster.. it needs to be way more structured. And I agree with what almost every poster has said in this thread... there needs to be more of an incentive to participate.
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Shadow's Caress
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Posted - 2008.06.01 07:50:00 -
[89]
1) As for rewards, I'm already sickened by the amount of isk that mission runners make in highsec for little to no risk, so why not at least make the FW rewards larger than highsec lvl 4s?
2) Even without rewards, I can't wait to get into FW due to the sheer amount of random player targets it'll open up for me. This patch is a pirate's wet dream.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.06.01 12:52:00 -
[90]
Good lord, this is going to be epic. **** yes.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
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