Originally by: Inertial

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I hate falcons, you need to have at least as many people in gang as the falconn have jammers +1 (so 6-7), and in the meantime your gang is getting slaugthered dead. So most gangs our corp puts togethere are in the 5-10 man range, meaning that we got no ability to counter the falcons. Now, here are the counters to nano ships (which people claim are uncountrable):

1. Heavy Neuts
2. Curse/Sentinel
3. Rapier/Huginn/Hyena
4. Good tracking medium range guns
5. Cerberus and other high-speed missile ships
6. ECM ships
7. Damp ships
8. Tracking Distruptor ships
9. Doomsday
10. Remote Repping BS fleet
11. Warrior IIs
12. Faction Webs/Officer Webs
13. Nano ships
14. Webbing Drones (really, they work... kinda)
15. High Alpha Ships

Here are the counters against the Falcon:

1. Falcon
2. Doomsday (not possible in low-sec)

In addition this is what you can do to mitigate the effect (note, non of these counters):

1. Bigger Blob
2. ECCM

Now, how many of the Falcon counters and mitigations seems reasonable for a small low-sec gang?

If you need a specific ship to counter another specific ship, something is wrong.

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Originally by: Endless Subversion

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Edited by: Endless Subversion on 04/06/2008 19:03:41

Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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All you need is a covert ops scout (which you should have anyway) and a ship that stays behind and waits for the falcon to decloak, a sniper BS is ideal.

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So in my small man gang (2-3 people) I should have cov ops prober/scout and a sniper BS. And what should my last ship be that we can actually engage some targets? A titan?

I agree that the falcon is limited in what roles it can embrace. However it's 'role' is extremely powerful and fight changing compared to the other force recons, additionally it's still broken in small gang environments.

Seriosuly, adding stacking penalties and possibly removing off-race jam strength on racial jammers isn't going to weaken the falcon very much at all EXCEPT in small gang environments where its targets also have ECCM. That's perfect, balance it where it's overpowered and leave it alone where it isn't!.

If the jam targets don't bring ECCM they're still SOL. One racial jammer has a 86% chance to jam my geddon if it isn't ECCM'd. Even with stacking penalties, you're still going to perma jam a BS that doesn't bring ECCM. It will just be that, now, if a small gang has ECCM, one falcon won't still be able to perma jam everyone just because there are only 2-3 total targets.

Hurray balance!

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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What do you expect a 3 man gang to achieve? You have no diversity (as you don't have the numbers) and flexibility. Your 3 man gang is only safe to take out at most solo or 2 ship gangs of inferior qualities. Or you pick your targets very wisely in which case you still need a forward scout.

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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In your case even a lousy blackbird will be more ECM than you can handle. So it is not a falcon is overpowered issue.

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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As I said, don't nerf a ship because of your lack of preparation or resource. Would you ask for a carrier nerf if one was dropped right on top of you?

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Originally by: Inertial

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Edited by: Inertial on 09/06/2008 14:55:09
I hate falcons, you need to have at least as many people in gang as the falconn have jammers +1 (so 6-7), and in the meantime your gang is getting slaugthered dead. So most gangs our corp puts togethere are in the 5-10 man range, meaning that we got no ability to counter the falcons. Now, here are the counters to nano ships (which people claim are uncountrable):

1. Heavy Neuts
2. Curse/Sentinel
3. Rapier/Huginn/Hyena
4. Good tracking medium range guns
5. Cerberus and other high-speed missile ships
6. ECM ships
7. Damp ships
8. Tracking Distruptor ships
9. Doomsday
10. Remote Repping BS fleet
11. Warrior IIs
12. Faction Webs/Officer Webs
13. Nano ships
14. Webbing Drones (really, they work... kinda)
15. High Alpha Ships

Here are the counters against the Falcon:

1. Falcon
2. Doomsday (not possible in low-sec)

In addition this is what you can do to mitigate the effect (note, non of these counters):

1. Bigger Blob
2. ECCM

Now, how many of the Falcon counters and mitigations seems reasonable for a small low-sec gang?

If you need a specific ship to counter another specific ship, something is wrong.

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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What do you expect a 3 man gang to achieve? You have no diversity (as you don't have the numbers) and flexibility. Your 3 man gang is only safe to take out at most solo or 2 ship gangs of inferior qualities. Or you pick your targets very wisely in which case you still need a forward scout.

In your case even a lousy blackbird will be more ECM than you can handle. So it is not a falcon is overpowered issue.

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Originally by: Gypsio III

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Originally by: Inertial

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Edited by: Inertial on 09/06/2008 14:55:09
I hate falcons, you need to have at least as many people in gang as the falconn have jammers +1 (so 6-7), and in the meantime your gang is getting slaugthered dead. So most gangs our corp puts togethere are in the 5-10 man range, meaning that we got no ability to counter the falcons. Now, here are the counters to nano ships (which people claim are uncountrable):

1. Heavy Neuts
2. Curse/Sentinel
3. Rapier/Huginn/Hyena
4. Good tracking medium range guns
5. Cerberus and other high-speed missile ships
6. ECM ships
7. Damp ships
8. Tracking Distruptor ships
9. Doomsday
10. Remote Repping BS fleet
11. Warrior IIs
12. Faction Webs/Officer Webs
13. Nano ships
14. Webbing Drones (really, they work... kinda)
15. High Alpha Ships

Here are the counters against the Falcon:

1. Falcon
2. Doomsday (not possible in low-sec)

In addition this is what you can do to mitigate the effect (note, non of these counters):

1. Bigger Blob
2. ECCM

Now, how many of the Falcon counters and mitigations seems reasonable for a small low-sec gang?

If you need a specific ship to counter another specific ship, something is wrong.

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The stupidity of this post offends me.

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