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Mengan
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.30 15:13:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Akiba Penrose
I dont, please explain.
"better counter to ECM" - There already exists numerous counters against Falcons in 0.0, adding more/better will just hurt its useage even more as it's already hard enough to stay alive today with all the nano, ceptors, bubbles and drones.
"adjusting the jamming range on the falcon." Any kind of range reduction will mean a certain death or total neutralization of a Falcon in anything but small gang fights as that is the Falcon's primary tank.
"stacking penalties, other penalties and immunity to jams" Jammers are already chance based. By adding even more penalties will most definately make jammers useless to a point were Falcon pilots would rather bring another ship to a fleet as it will make Falcons usefulness to cost to survivability ratio low enough that it simply isn't worth it.
Falcons are always primary in a fight, if it's not then the enemy fleet deserves to die anyway.
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Mengan
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.30 15:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Mengan
You do know that what you've suggested as "fix" for the Falcon will totally destroy its abilility to function in 0.0?
Is the Rook as underused in 0.0 as it is in low-sec?
Months have passed since I last saw a Rook, while I see Falcons on a daily basis.
Hmmm, maybe that ship should have a role which isn't rendered invalid by it's sister ship doing all it can do plus a covops cloak.
Covops cloak must come at a (significant) price. It prevents effective scouting and provides you with a significant factor of suprise in addition to being a show-stopper in any small gang combat as much as a Rook is (which you incidentally don't see people complaining about!).
Yes, Rooks aren't used alot in 0.0 either except for smallish roaming gangs. Fleet fights tend to favor Falcons as the cloak is 1000x more useful than some extra damage that you probably wont use anyway cause of the range you are sat at.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.05.30 15:19:00 -
[33]
Also, people are complaining about falcons in small gang fights where they've had time to prepare and set up...this is the absolute best situation for a falcon.
1v1 falcons can't kill anything.
In bigger gangs, someones going to be unjammed and there goes the paper thin falcon.
So the *only* place they really do well is in small gang fights where they have a preparation advantage over their opponents. I don't see why we should make them ineffective at their specialty niche.
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Mengan
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.30 15:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ulstan
Also, people are complaining about falcons in small gang fights where they've had time to prepare and set up...this is the absolute best situation for a falcon.
This
If a gang with Falcons already has set up numerous bookmarks in the system you are fighting at then they have obviosuly taken their time to prepare and therfore has supieror tactics than those that haven't.
That's not something they should be punished for.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.05.30 15:55:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/05/2008 15:56:23
Originally by: Ulstan
So the *only* place they really do well is in small gang fights where they have a preparation advantage over their opponents. I don't see why we should make them ineffective at their specialty niche.
This speciality niche is 90% of low-sec combat - small gang fights. They don't need that much special preparation (it helps naturally). This niche is awfully huge.
A Rook is equally effective once combat has actually started, but it can be scouted for (and therefore prepared for), while a Falcon cannot while mantaining all the critical things a Rook has (range, power, etc - it loses DPS, which is rather moot for a jamming ship).
There's a reason that people go 'lol, Rook on scanner' when they see one - it's become a incredibly rare occurence to see one in low-sec - the disadvantage of being visible far outweights a bit of extra lockrange and one more midslot.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:27:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 30/05/2008 16:28:28
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Why would a distance over 150 km keep close-range fits off you? Can't they just warp to hit you right in the face?
You can only warp to members in your gang.
Not true. I've been in PvP and warped to a disengaging nano ship I was fighting(who had avoid warping off mostly to taunt me). If they're on grid and over 150 km away, you can warp to them. Same thing as all those cans that used to be anchored 200 km off the undock ports at major stations - you clicked on them and warped instantly. I don't think secure cans are in gang with you.
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Fix the forums! |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:28:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 30/05/2008 16:28:12
Whoops, double post.
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Fix the forums! |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Not true. I've been in PvP and warped to a disengaging nano ship I was fighting(who had avoid warping off mostly to taunt me). If they're on grid and over 150 km away, you can warp to them.
Er, lol, no you can't. Maybe it was in gang with you? 
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Same thing as all those cans that used to be anchored 200 km off the undock ports at major stations - you clicked on them and warped instantly. I don't think secure cans are in gang with you.
Yes, you can warp to cans. Of course, you'd have to politely ask people to drop them so you can warp to them.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Owl Algernon
Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:47:00 -
[39]
Completely disagree. OP is clueless.
The Falcon is a one-trick pony. It completely sacrifices its tank in order to do the only single thing for which its designed. Catch one up close, jam one, or snipe one and it's warped out or destroyed.
Also, the only thing the Falcon is designed for is a chance based system. It is theoretically possible for a Falcon to show up to a fight and to successfully do nothing, particularly if people fit ECCM (which the OP clueslessly claims isn't worth the time).
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Sabrina Al'Kian
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:59:00 -
[40]
Okay, here's a fix: reduce the Falcon's jam strength (or range) by 5% per level. That makes it still very useful, but gives the Rook an edge in that department.
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Vivien Sureflight
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:04:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 30/05/2008 16:28:28
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Why would a distance over 150 km keep close-range fits off you? Can't they just warp to hit you right in the face?
You can only warp to members in your gang.
Not true. I've been in PvP and warped to a disengaging nano ship I was fighting(who had avoid warping off mostly to taunt me). If they're on grid and over 150 km away, you can warp to them. Same thing as all those cans that used to be anchored 200 km off the undock ports at major stations - you clicked on them and warped instantly. I don't think secure cans are in gang with you.
No you can't Hersch. But what you CAN do is BM a missile fired by said Falcon and then warp to the bookmark. It's a neat trick I learned while missioning :)
__________________________________
Give a man some fire and he'll be warm for a day. SET a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life... |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:16:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 30/05/2008 17:16:24
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Not true. I've been in PvP and warped to a disengaging nano ship I was fighting(who had avoid warping off mostly to taunt me). If they're on grid and over 150 km away, you can warp to them.
Er, lol, no you can't. Maybe it was in gang with you?
Really? I mean, it was a buddy on SiSi, so it's possible that we were, but I could have sworn we weren't. Damn, guess I just made a bit of a fool of myself 
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Fix the forums! |
Lt Graco
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:50:00 -
[43]
I was in TS with a corp i was considering joining when there was a report of three reds in the next system over. Four people broke away from what they were doing and moved to the gate. 2 Onyx, 1 Raven and a Vulture with sensor boost for the Onyx. They were chatting and joking about how they would engage when one of them said, "Damn, I hope they don't have a Falcon."
Silence. Everyone went silent. That was when I decided I would become a recon pilot.
After asking around a bit and reading on these forums it looks like ECM already went through a nerf. I can't see anything wrong with a feared ship...one that makes you really think before acting. The fact that there are ways to counter them means that they are not overpowered. Please leave them as they are.
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority
Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.30 23:10:00 -
[44]
IMO ecm has enough counters, but.... Howa bout defender missiles going after ecm? Like rl HARMS?
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Billy Merc
Pilots Of Honour
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.30 23:20:00 -
[45]
Not signed (and i dont even fly the things)
They have a role, thats pretty much all they can do.
.: Try an apoc with ECCM and see how long ya falcon lives @ -~+ 200km
.: If u land near him, drop ya drones b4 he locks.
.: Have a ferox/BB with PECCM mods in your gang
Its not that falcons are overpowered, its just people dont think outside the box...
For the record i think it was FUXIN disgusting that ccp brought there jam strengh bonus inline with a rook....but regardless falcons are not "showstoppers" if u can start to think outside the box..
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866
Voice your opinion on the GTC sales changes in the above CSM thread |
Billy Merc
Pilots Of Honour
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.30 23:23:00 -
[46]
Oh and if u fly in 0.0 without FoF's regardless of if a falcon is in range or not....u deserve to die
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866
Voice your opinion on the GTC sales changes in the above CSM thread |
Frug
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.06.01 07:23:00 -
[47]
As a falcon pilot I don't think they're imbalanced. When I'm not in mine, and my gang comes across one or two, we figure out a way to deal with them. Sometimes we don't have a good solution but usually we do. if it's a roaming gang, you send one fast ship at it to go harass it, and that poor falcon can't fight back at all. It just sits there being scared, and will warp out or succumb to fofs or drones. It's not like it has any dps worth mentioning.
That said, I also would not consider a small reduction in the falcon's range to be out of the question.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Chuck Skull
BBK Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.01 10:31:00 -
[48]
There are loads of counters to falcons, and ECM boats in general. Range and ECM is their only real tank.
If your "small gang" only consists of slow, short range, high damage ships. Then long range ECM is the perfect counter and you wonder why it seems overpowered?
Yes a falcon the biggest threat to a small gang. This doesn't mean it should be nerfed.
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Also available in 'sober' |
Akiba Penrose
PAK
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Posted - 2008.06.01 14:02:00 -
[49]
I think id rather try and explain the problem one more time instead of commenting on each of the replies. It seems to me that people don't understand the situation and therefore don't see the need for the change.
Lets take a theoretical example of a 3 vs 3 on a gate in low sec. All of them flying battleships, outlaws, t2 fits and with max skills. The outcome of the fight is now decided by tactic and fitting of the 2 gangs.
Lets add one force recon to one of the sides and see how they can influence the fight.
Rapier:
40km web range and 63km paint range. It can effectively stop a spider tank if it webs the BS when they de-cloak at gate.
It has to stay within range all of the BS to be effective. Even if it stay at max range it can be attacked by missiles, drones and EW.
Pilgrim
12.5km nos/neut and 101km tracking disruption. If it stays out at 100km range and disrupts turret ships it is still possible to counter with missiles and sentry drones.
Arazu
48km warp disruption and 63km remote sensor dampener. Can dampen 1 ship down to 12-14km target range.
If it dampens all ships down they can still fight the other BS. If it try to take out one BS the other BS can still attack the Arazu.
Falcon
228km ECM range. Can jamm multiple BS, probably all of them unless they have 2x ECCM fitted. None of the BS is able to target the falcon when they are not jammed.
The Falcon will effectively prohibit a spider tank. The BS can not attack the Falcon.
When setup for max range there is no way of countering the Falcon in the above scenario, while the 3 other force recons is possible to attack/counter.
The only viable counter to a long range falcon in low sec is nano ships.
- - -
Long range jamming was previously the domain of the Rook. To successfully fly a long range Rook you would actually have to pilot it. Lots of tactics could be applied against a Rook (mostly before the fight), but most important even if it could stay out of range the other side had the chance to scout it out first. To discover a long range jammer before the actual fight is extremely important, since it is out of range during the fight. It is not possible to scout a cloaked Falcon.
The Falcon is now the new long range jammer, it has taken the place of the Rook (which is now obsolete). It requires little to none skill to fly a Falcon this way. You can just park a cloaked Falcon alt out at 200km and use it when needed. There is no other ship that requires so little personal skill to fly and has such a huge impact on pvp.
I don't understand why the Falcon is considered broken if it cannot perform, and do exactly the same, as a Rook.
There could be many ways to fix the Falcon. Give it more low slots, give it a drone bay, give it a ecm drone bonus, give it anything.
But it should, like with the rest of the force recons, require some personal skill to successfully use a Falcon in pvp. Now its just decloak û jamm û cloak, preferably with an falcon-alt.
200km range, tripple ECM-bonus and Cov Ops Cloak is 3 power attributes. Combine them all on one ship and it becomes overpowered.
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Falcons |
Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.06.01 17:08:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 01/06/2008 17:10:19
Wow this thread is full of garbage (NOT from the OP, he is correct).
The biggest problem is that the most effective counter to a falcon is to bring another falcon of your own.
Here are some of the "counters" proposed so far:
1. Fit ECCM. Guess what, 1x ECCM on a battleship will make a good skilled falcon with racials have a one in three chance of a jam per jammer. I'm sorry but sacrificing a med slot to make you resistant to jamming should do A WHOLE HELL OF ALOT MORE than taking your chance of getting jammed from 1 in 2 to 1 in 3. Honestly, I think ECCM should give around a 200% bonus, taking a 22 sensor strength battleship to around 66. Jammers still have a chance of working agianst that, just like they have a chance agianst carriers now, but at least a falcon won't still cripple your gang even when you fit to counter it.
2. Bring a sniper. Ok, so you bring a sniper apoc. Assuming that the falcon doesn't jam it, then the sniper will hit with one salvo and the falcon will warp off. At this point the falcon is free to warp back in and try to jam the apoc agian. But meanwhile your gang is left with a sniper while the enemy gang is left with a cloaked falcon. If your sniper warped in at zero and is right in the thick of the fight, the enemy gang can melt him almost instantly then the falcon is free to decloak and jam with impunity. If your sniper came at range, then the falcon can come back in at range from an opposite direction and be out of the sniper's range. Of course there is nothing to stop the sniper from trying to chase the falcon around, but the falcon is a cloaker and it warps quite a bit faster than a slow battleship will.
3. Burn to the falcon with a tackler. Ok, so you send an inty or a hac to the falcon and try to lock him down and kill him. One racial jammer is good enough to absolutely PERMAJAM (as in jam str > sensor str) anything up to a HAC, and in some cases a command ship. Something like an ishtar might be able to make the falcon warp out and back in to get the drones off, but thats about it. To really kill a falcon you are looking at a couple nano recon ships minimum, preferably with ECCM fit. I personaly have only lost my falcon once, to a huginn and vaga that burned to me. Even then if I wasn't running the falcon AS AN ALT while I concentrated on my main in a battleship, I would have warped out if they started to get near scram range and I didn't have jams on them yet. I am hardly a perfect falcon pilot, I know a better, undistracted falcon pilot would have easily escaped that situation.
Now, for the REAL falcon counter:
5. Bring your own falcon. If you bring your own falcon, then you have a chance to jam him first and then jam the rest of the enemies with impunity. If the falcon jams you either warp back in and try agian, or pick a spot out of his range. At the worst you force a break-even situation where you both are able to jam the damage dealers and the fight is ballanced. In fact an even better tactic would be to bring two or three falcons and jam three times as many targets. If you have three falcons and the enemy doesn't, target is the only word to properly describe their ships.
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Ogul
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.01 18:15:00 -
[51]
I completely agree with the OP. We can't have a one-trick-pony that actually does that one trick well, can we?
In addition it is against Caldari design principles to have a ship that is actually useful.
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Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes. |
Fivrelde
Fivrelde Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.02 08:40:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 01/06/2008 17:10:19
Wow this thread is full of garbage (NOT from the OP, he is correct).
The biggest problem is that the most effective counter to a falcon is to bring another falcon of your own.
Here are some of the "counters" proposed so far:
1. Fit ECCM. Guess what, 1x ECCM on a battleship will make a good skilled falcon with racials have a one in three chance of a jam per jammer. I'm sorry but sacrificing a med slot to make you resistant to jamming should do A WHOLE HELL OF ALOT MORE than taking your chance of getting jammed from 1 in 2 to 1 in 3. Honestly, I think ECCM should give around a 200% bonus, taking a 22 sensor strength battleship to around 66. Jammers still have a chance of working agianst that, just like they have a chance agianst carriers now, but at least a falcon won't still cripple your gang even when you fit to counter it.
2. Bring a sniper. Ok, so you bring a sniper apoc. Assuming that the falcon doesn't jam it, then the sniper will hit with one salvo and the falcon will warp off. At this point the falcon is free to warp back in and try to jam the apoc agian. But meanwhile your gang is left with a sniper while the enemy gang is left with a cloaked falcon. If your sniper warped in at zero and is right in the thick of the fight, the enemy gang can melt him almost instantly then the falcon is free to decloak and jam with impunity. If your sniper came at range, then the falcon can come back in at range from an opposite direction and be out of the sniper's range. Of course there is nothing to stop the sniper from trying to chase the falcon around, but the falcon is a cloaker and it warps quite a bit faster than a slow battleship will.
3. Burn to the falcon with a tackler. Ok, so you send an inty or a hac to the falcon and try to lock him down and kill him. One racial jammer is good enough to absolutely PERMAJAM (as in jam str > sensor str) anything up to a HAC, and in some cases a command ship. Something like an ishtar might be able to make the falcon warp out and back in to get the drones off, but thats about it. To really kill a falcon you are looking at a couple nano recon ships minimum, preferably with ECCM fit. I personaly have only lost my falcon once, to a huginn and vaga that burned to me. Even then if I wasn't running the falcon AS AN ALT while I concentrated on my main in a battleship, I would have warped out if they started to get near scram range and I didn't have jams on them yet. I am hardly a perfect falcon pilot, I know a better, undistracted falcon pilot would have easily escaped that situation.
Now, for the REAL falcon counter:
5. Bring your own falcon. If you bring your own falcon, then you have a chance to jam him first and then jam the rest of the enemies with impunity. If the falcon jams you either warp back in and try agian, or pick a spot out of his range. At the worst you force a break-even situation where you both are able to jam the damage dealers and the fight is ballanced. In fact an even better tactic would be to bring two or three falcons and jam three times as many targets. If you have three falcons and the enemy doesn't, target is the only word to properly describe their ships.
This.
There will always be ships out of wack and people fervently trying to keep their I-win mobile. I only do small scale pvp and the falcon utterly screwbars everything about it. Now I have to sit in one myself to counter other falcons and making the game utterly boring for those poor few gangs that didnt bring any of their own.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:53:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/06/2008 10:55:31
Originally by: Fivrelde
There will always be ships out of wack and people fervently trying to keep their I-win mobile. I only do small scale pvp and the falcon utterly screwbars everything about it. Now I have to sit in one myself to counter other falcons and making the game utterly boring for those poor few gangs that didnt bring any of their own.
Basically it boils down to the fact, that while you can counter other cloaking recons using conventional (and very varied means), you're either bringing your own Falcons (which have a ton of extra utility as well) or bringing very specific counter-fits which are totally useless (read: big liability to any small gang!) otherwise.
A huge part of the issue is the range really (and relative ineffectiveness of ECCM, particularly on non-BS ships), which makes counter-fitting not so effective (as you still get two to three (depending on race/sensor str) ships jammed out from the fight to one falcon even when counterfitting - not to mention losing a bunch of midslots alltogether which isn't that horrible).
Altogether, the best way to deal with one (for a small gang anyway) is to bring a Falcon yourself (or a very specific counter-fit!). Which wouldn't be a issue at all if it weren't for the covops cloak. Nobody ever complains about the Rook (which is de-facto obsolete, I almost never see them).
The ease of use makes a lot of people simply use Falcon alts.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
RoCkEt X
The Order of Chivalry
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.06.02 11:21:00 -
[54]
i think the fact that ECM is chance based is a factor here, i can be racially pumping out 14 points of jam per cycle, so say vs a BS, i have about a 60% chance of a jam with each ecm module. if someone gets ontop of me, by nano, or probing and warping, i die like a t1 cruiser. the problem jamming is that there is no garrentee. which is why its so powerful, so when it DOES work, its extremely effective.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.02 12:24:00 -
[55]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
i think the fact that ECM is chance based is a factor here, i can be racially pumping out 14 points of jam per cycle, so say vs a BS, i have about a 60% chance of a jam with each ecm module.
You should be pumping more out with racials actually.
Quote:
if someone gets ontop of me, by nano, or probing and warping, i die like a t1 cruiser.
That's what jammers ARE for (and why you don't just unload all your jammers on a single target at a same time). Even two ships (HAC+ceptor) are most likely not going to kill a Falcon.
Quote:
the problem jamming is that there is no garrentee.
Yeah. But statistically, it's extremely effective even though there are no actual guarantees it'll work. Sure, sometimes you get unlucky jams on someone, but sometimes you jam 4 ECCM-ed BS - which you in theory should never have.
Yes, jamming isn't 100% certain - which is good for you as ECCM-ed ships would be incredibly hard to jam, and jamming would only happen if jam str added up. You effectively put more ships out of the battle this way, since throwing 15 points of jam on a 22 point ship is rather effective, particularly vs a slow locking ship - while it'd be totally useless if jamming wasn't chance based.
However, statistically, you're doing a awesome job at reducing the effective enemy forces, much better then any other recon, and at ranges where classical setups cannot even target, and nanoships take their sweet time to arrive (while someone will be on that 50km away lachersis in a very short time, you only need to cross 22 km before you can point with a overheated disruptor).
Jamming not being chance based would be a definite ECM nerf - a ECCM-ed BS (when heating) would require 3 racial jammers
to have any effect (yes, effect would be total) and if doesn't have correct racials, sorry, mate, your two jammers aren'd doing anything at all. Ever.
Right now, you'll jam a ceptor on a off jammer, imagine the fun if you couldn't possibly do that 
But, I'll always say it: none of this would be a issue IF Falcons didn't have a covops cloak.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.06.02 13:32:00 -
[56]
Falcons are trivial to counter. I'm getting fed up of being killed or driven off by tacklers acting as warp-in points, by snipers, by ECCMed nanoHACs/nanoRecons (Arazus and Lacheses in particular) so I'm considering returning to Scorps - more EHP, similar jamming power and far cheaper, so I don't have to run away whenever something gets within 60 km of me.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.02 13:57:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Falcons are trivial to counter. I'm getting fed up of being killed or driven off by tacklers acting as warp-in points, by snipers, by ECCMed nanoHACs/nanoRecons (Arazus and Lacheses in particular) so I'm considering returning to Scorps - more EHP, similar jamming power and far cheaper, so I don't have to run away whenever something gets within 60 km of me.
However, in small gang PvP you don't have designated anti-falcon boats at all times as a rule, and the covops cloak makes it really really nasty, because you can't scout for them to bring specific counters.
Which is why people are arguing: the covops cloak plus its capabilities in combination are the issue. Particularly and specifically for small gang warfare.
In bigger gangs, the covops cloak and the element of suprise doesn't have such a huge impact, as you will have enough extra tacklers and nanoships to take care of the threat.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Great Emrys
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.06.02 14:10:00 -
[58]
Not supported!
The damn ship can only do ONE thing well: Jam. It doesnt do any damage, it doesn't tackle, it doesn't nano, it's not even a good scout...
Adapt and stop whining.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:34:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Great Emrys
The damn ship can only do ONE thing well: Jam.
The issue is that unlike a Rook it can do two things well: jam and covops cloak. That's what the discussion is about.
That said, we've adapted. We've got our own Falcons. The issue isn't that we cannot adapt (we can and did), the issue is that the ship is a show-stopper for small gang PvP unless you have Falcons of your own, or very specific counter-fits which are utterly wasted for other purposes in a small gang. You can't scout for a Falcon so you know wether to bring them or not - while your scout should spot a Scorp/Rook/BB/Kitsune and act accordingly, if he doesn't and you get suprise buttsecks then your scouting is bad.
Unlike any other cloaky recon, which you do not need special preparations to counter most of the time. It's the crux of the matter, and the reason why seeing Rooks is very very rare.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:01:00 -
[60]
Quote:
or very specific counter-fits which are utterly wasted for other purposes in a small gang.
This just isn't true and you know it.
Bringing a sniper in a small gang is a specific counter of limited use elsewhere, I'll accept that. But inties, nanoRecons (particularly Arazu and Lachesis) or HACs such as Cerberus and nanoIshtar are standard small gang ships and will very quickly remove that Falcon from the field.
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