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Irish Whiskey Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.30 22:04:00 - [1] I'm losing quite a bit of faith in my RAID systems, and want to look into a different solution for data preservation. SSD drives are reporting 2 million hours for MTBF, but the risk of a URE is too realistic. Besides, cost/gb is stupidly high to be used for a storage system. Optical drives & media I've never relied upon. It's nice to use but not feasible for what I need. PS - bluray discs may become an option if the media cost drops and the 8 layered discs get marketed soon. Net storage services out of the question. So, whats next?
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.30 22:52:00 - [2] You need to define your needs. Protecting your data can take many forms, each with their good and bad points. RAID solutions with data protection are very good and pretty reliable. But if the whole machine is damaged (say in a fire) you are SOL. Removable media is good protection but the media can be damaged or lost. If all you are looking for is a data backup solution than an external USB hard drive may be the thing. Not too pricey, not fast but not horrendously slow, lots of storage. Combine that with a RAID 1 or RAID 5 setup and you should be reasonably safe. The more important your data the more freaky you should be about multiple backups. If your whole, private business is on the PC get fanatical about it. I toured a facility that hosted Yahoo servers several years ago. The place was like Ft. Knox (where the US keeps huge gold reserves). Three foot thick concrete walls, cameras everywhere, triple redundant power systems, armored pipes that carried data cables out from three different directions of the building, mirrored servers (not just drives...the whole machines so if one broke the other took over without a blink), multiple security layers, armed guards...was nuts. But then for someone like Yahoo their entire existence is on the computers so they just can never ever go down. I mention all that to give an idea of the continuum. It's all a matter of an assessment of the pain level you are willing to tolerate from a computer failure versus how fat your wallet is. Also, there are online backup solutions as well but that is slow. If it is just your Ph.D. thesis make a GMail and Yahoo account and mail copies to there. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Fink Angel The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.05.30 23:05:00 - [3] How much data do you want to backup? How much is it worth to you? Is it recreatable given enough effort? RAID will protect from a drive failure but that's about it. It doesn't protect (for example) from a mains glitch causing corruption, or accidental deletion, virus related corruption ... etc.
Xtreem Knockaround Guys Inc. Exxxotic	Posted - 2008.05.31 00:13:00 - [4] yeah i stick to raid tbh, as someone said u could have an issue where it all fails so what i do is. I have 6 drives, all 500GB, and simply mirror, ok so i lose 1.5 tb but then again im guarenteed not to lose the 1.5 with the data on! and to insure mass failure does not take it all out i have a 2 TB external drive that i use to snapshot the entire array to once a week then move that into my garage = safe data
Mother Clanger M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.05.31 00:36:00 - [5] I'm very eager to try out a Drobo.
Xtreem Knockaround Guys Inc. Exxxotic	Posted - 2008.05.31 01:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Mother Clanger I'm very eager to try out a Drobo. ú334.86 just for the unit, then another 150 for the network share add on, plus the cost of the drives, your talking what 600 with drives... unless its company bought you might as well just buy 2 external drives and have set it up to mirror to each of them thats what that unit is effectivly doing anyway just with more lights. ok its got hot swap, but so would 2 external drives, which are not that big and easily hidden away so not to look ugly and u wont have to look at all the flashy light, expensive toy tbh
Havok Dryke Golden Gavel Enterprises The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.05.31 04:21:00 - [7] Edited by: Havok Dryke on 31/05/2008 04:21:51 I recommend a Standard text transfer protocol and a Double-layer rewritable text storage device. --- Kaboom: The process by which large objects are broken down into many small objects. Originally by: Alz Shado Chribba doesn't mine Veldspar -- the ore offers itself to him in tribute.
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.05.31 04:29:00 - [8] Ehm, what is wrong with RAID exactly? Have a nice RAID backup array, possibly with more than just the 2 disk drives, or have two arrays and mirror the first to the second. In addition to this, have a simple external HD that you mirror it too as well. That's triple redundancy. If ALL of those fail, you might want to kill yourself as you are officially the unluckiest man in the world
Irish Whiskey Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.31 11:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Eternal Error Ehm, what is wrong with RAID exactly? Have a nice RAID backup array, possibly with more than just the 2 disk drives, or have two arrays and mirror the first to the second. In addition to this, have a simple external HD that you mirror it too as well. That's triple redundancy. If ALL of those fail, you might want to kill yourself as you are officially the unluckiest man in the world I dont have great luck With the size of drives increasing (doubling every 18-24 months), the UREs are going to become more common than most people think. At least thats my opinion and that's why I am losing faith in the protocol rapidly. Maybe I should just accept the failures and go with a dual backup system instead of one. PS - Yes I do know what RAID is, how it works, what people are promised. For those of you who do not know what MTBF or URE stands for in this context, or do not know that SATA drives are specced to have an URE at 12 TB which adds up to the RAID 5 system I am using having approx 50% chance of failure to rebuild, please dont troll here...
DrHolliday Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.31 20:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Irish Whiskey Originally by: Eternal Error Ehm, what is wrong with RAID exactly? Have a nice RAID backup array, possibly with more than just the 2 disk drives, or have two arrays and mirror the first to the second. In addition to this, have a simple external HD that you mirror it too as well. That's triple redundancy. If ALL of those fail, you might want to kill yourself as you are officially the unluckiest man in the world I dont have great luck With the size of drives increasing (doubling every 18-24 months), the UREs are going to become more common than most people think. At least thats my opinion and that's why I am losing faith in the protocol rapidly. Maybe I should just accept the failures and go with a dual backup system instead of one. PS - Yes I do know what RAID is, how it works, what people are promised. For those of you who do not know what MTBF or URE stands for in this context, or do not know that SATA drives are specced to have an URE at 12 TB which adds up to the RAID 5 system I am using having approx 50% chance of failure to rebuild, please dont troll here... You must be using some huge arrays if you're worried about a URE during a rebuild. - Reject GTC Price Hike: Thread \| CSM

Gunstar Zero Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.31 22:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Irish Whiskey I'm losing quite a bit of faith in my RAID systems, and want to look into a different solution for data preservation. SSD drives are reporting 2 million hours for MTBF, but the risk of a URE is too realistic. Besides, cost/gb is stupidly high to be used for a storage system. Optical drives & media I've never relied upon. It's nice to use but not feasible for what I need. PS - bluray discs may become an option if the media cost drops and the 8 layered discs get marketed soon. Net storage services out of the question. So, whats next? RAID6 isn't much help, unless you decide to keep the size of the disks a bit lower and the sets optimal. The 'Just replicate it 3 times' approach works, but is inefficient, expensive and power hungry. Depending on the env & how much storage you have I'd probably go for paired R6 arrays with regular snapshots & backups. Funky file systems such as zfs or similar are going to help. Could take a look at a Sunfire X4500 if you want something cheap and big.


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