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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2004.05.06 20:14:00 -
[1]
Has anyone compiled missile launcher+ missile type DOT data? I am wondering how they rate over the turret classes, not taking damage types into account...
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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.05.06 21:48:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Silverlancer on 06/05/2004 21:49:41
Torps. With max skill, 27 damage per second per gun, counting reload times for a normal Siege Launcher.
Torps. With max skill, 25 damage per second per gun, counting reload times for a normal Heavy Launcher.
Cruise missiles on a frigate. With max skill, 14.63 damage per second per gun, counting reload times for a normal Standard Launcher.
6 EM torps can dish out 2,700 damage, enough to cripple the shields of most battleships. And then, only 15 seconds later, the Raven can launch another round. Even an XL C5-L can only recharge 1,800 shields every 15 seconds. And he has two 425mms also. Note the fact that all these missile launchers only use up 6,000 powergrid and don't use any cap, letting him tank to high heaven.
This is why everyone on chaos uses ravens... and why they sorta could use a nerf? 
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Amy Foxx
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Posted - 2004.05.06 21:56:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Silverlancer
Edited by: Silverlancer on 06/05/2004 21:49:41
6 EM torps can dish out 2,700 damage, enough to cripple the shields of most battleships. And then, only 15 seconds later, the Raven can launch another round. Even an XL C5-L can only recharge 1,800 shields every 15 seconds. And he has two 425mms also. Note the fact that all these missile launchers only use up 6,000 powergrid and don't use any cap, letting him tank to high heaven.
This is why everyone on chaos uses ravens... and why they sorta could use a nerf?
Have you every tired to fit all that on a Raven?
My Raven Nevermore is running in a 6/2 (6 seige launchers/2 425mm rails) and tanking gear... even with Electroics 4 and Engeringer 4 I still needed co-processors to fit everything in there 
If anything Ravens need more CPU... 600 base just doesn't cut it... not with the mosty CPU intensive weapons out there... 80 for each seige, and 70 per rail.. then comes everything else :P
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.05.06 22:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Silverlancer
This is why everyone on chaos uses ravens... and why they sorta could use a nerf?
NO WAY!
That's not the reason. The reason is that most people on chaos are *****. They take pride in killing someone on chaos, with a setup made specificly for that.
On TQ, SUCH A SETUP IS USELESS! But either they don't realize that, or they simply don't care cause they enjoy that other stupid guys thinks they are ³ber. They just ruin for people that actually want to test real setups and test their skills.
Explenation:
* They don't fit scrambler. How the **** are you ever gonna kill someone 1vs1 without a scrambler on TQ?
* They don't fit any "life-savers". Like warp core stab, or ECCM.
* Furthermore, their setup completely sucks for fights larger than 1vs1. This is because 1: Not using more than 5-6 slots for weapons deals very crappy damage. 2: Nosferatu as a weapon is next to useless in fleet combat. 3: They don't tend to fit armor hardeners, only a ****load of repairers and cap recharge. With multiple enemies fireing on you, you are dead in notime without hardeners.
I usually just warp away from them on Chaos, which ****es them off, which indeed is very funny.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2004.05.06 23:46:00 -
[5]
WHOA... Silverlancer... My eyes opened wide as ever upon reading your post... Tha Raven needs a nerf... Usually, Caldari pilots clamor for nerfs on drones or blasters and whatnot... but not on their own ships!
You da man
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Torvus Jay
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Posted - 2004.05.07 01:11:00 -
[6]
Cut your calculated em dmg in half once to take into account 1 em hardener that is standard on almost any ship. Then decrease the dmg by another 20% for topedoes blowing other torpedoes up and the shiled booster can more than handle the dmg.
Not to mention that if the ship is at over 20km they have more than enough time to warp away from cruise or torps without ever taking any dmg at all.
So no the raven does not need a nerf at least not a serious one.
______________
Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye. |
Redwolf
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Posted - 2004.05.07 05:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Silverlancer
This is why everyone on chaos uses ravens... and why they sorta could use a nerf?
And on top of that the sheer difference in skill points needed to output that damage from a raven to the amount needed for other setups...
c'mon, uber damages for Cal BS1 and Torp/cruise1, and dont come it with cruise 5 crap, anything above 1 is gravy 
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Jazz Bo
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Posted - 2004.05.07 07:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Silverlancer
6 EM torps can dish out 2,700 damage, enough to cripple the shields of most battleships. And then, only 15 seconds later, the Raven can launch another round. Even an XL C5-L can only recharge 1,800 shields every 15 seconds.
Depends on your definition of "cripple" I suppose.
I know I would only lose about 25% shields on my Tempest to those torps. And I could boost that back that before another volley would hit me.
Although the RoF on Sieges is closer to 12 seconds on a Raven at Cal BS 4.
Besides, I really think most experienced Raven pilots use Cruise missiles. No splash damage, and better DoT at high skill levels too I believe.
Originally by: DB Preacher
Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.05.07 08:21:00 -
[9]
Raven needs folowing skills to be fitted properly:
Electronics lvl 5
Weaponupgrades lvl 5
Missile launcher lvl 5
Cruisemissiles lvl 5
Most EW/Shielding skills to lvl 5
because the fackt that Ravens equipment Eat ALOT of CPU
ofcorse on the contruary - Tempest needs Uber skill son gunnerysectin..
and Megatron needs uber MWD and rail skills to be effektive
on apoch... well Energy skill utilisation is important because only thing apoch can compeet whit other races is Energy suply ..
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fras
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Posted - 2004.05.07 09:49:00 -
[10]
Raven might be expensive to run and not so good long distance, but it eats babies at 30k or less. Well spaced missiles make it extremely difficult to get speed to warp. It's possibly the best (or equal) armour tank and shield tank in the game, all while keeping pretty much 100% offence, a couple of heavy launchers aren't much of a compromise.
Frigates/interceptors are increasingly being used in TQ enagements for scramble/web so the arguement for or against having to fit these modules is becoming more mute.
Best BS in the game 30k or less, tracking is barely a factor, there's no missile splash damage. I've seen ravens tank and kill close range megathrons and tempests np. Things are only looking up for the future, faster missiles etc...
All imho of course 
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Estios
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Posted - 2004.05.07 13:54:00 -
[11]
OMG so many crappy set ups detected in one thread I had to advert my eyes.
Saying the Raven needs a nerf is the most stupid thing Ive heard for a while, most of you should stick to Chaos where losing your ships doesnt matter.
/me just waits for Jim read this (Dalman, advert you eyes also)
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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fras
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Posted - 2004.05.07 14:12:00 -
[12]
Estios why don't you backup your opinion with an arguement instead of saying "I'm cool, you suck".
If you put across a good arguement then I will kiss your booty like u obviously want everyone to, until then well...
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.05.07 14:42:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Hellek on 07/05/2004 14:46:44
Originally by: Siddy
Raven needs folowing skills to be fitted properly:
Electronics lvl 5
Weaponupgrades lvl 5
Missile launcher lvl 5
Cruisemissiles lvl 5
Most EW/Shielding skills to lvl 5
because the fackt that Ravens equipment Eat ALOT of CPU
ofcorse on the contruary - Tempest needs Uber skill son gunnerysectin..
and Megatron needs uber MWD and rail skills to be effektive
on apoch... well Energy skill utilisation is important because only thing apoch can compeet whit other races is Energy suply ..
Although I often disagree with Siddy, in this case I agree with him :-)
I also agree with fras.
About Jim: We all know that he would be against nerfing the Raven even if it was 10 times stronger than any other BS. He might have good PvP experience but that is worth nothing when the things he posts are not the reflecting the truth.
I recommend you all to judge the posts by their content, not by who posted them.
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Estios
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Posted - 2004.05.07 14:48:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Estios on 07/05/2004 14:54:50
Edited by: Estios on 07/05/2004 14:52:15
Apologies Fras, I wasnt entirely supposed to come across like that but Im sick of people shouting nerf this nerf that when they are playing on Chaos in 1 scenario ie 1vs1 fight to the Death.
Its not realistic and half the folks here shouting nerf are saying it with even less of a decent argument than my piece. If I was to completely go into details about battle scenarios this post would be huge.....my point is that I fear that MAYBE some dev does actually pay attention to these threads written by relatively unexperienced pilots (thats not meant to sound rude but its true, I mean im seeing quote about having electronics 4 etc.....we all know Ravens are short of Cpu).
That was more my issue.
I mean nearly all Raven pilots KNOW that the Raven sucks in fleet battles because missles are too slow and most fleet battles occur long range. Also Cruise missles > Torps except maybe in a purely 1vs1 fight.
Seriously I could go on and on about how Chaos fighting isnt a true reflection and why their set ups are flawed but it would takes ages, and quite frankly I like people to find their own set-ups.
I dont post in this forum much because a lot of the set-ups are not good IMHO but when they post a crappy set up in combination/justification with the word NERF it boils my blood.
And yes Jim does the Raven a little too much  , but he knows this ship pretty well. Its needs more CPU and missles need to go faster....it CERTAINLY does not need a nerf.
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.05.07 14:54:00 -
[15]
I agree that Chaos combat has nothing to do with TQ combat (or hardly anything).
I don't think that its a problem that people can warp away from missiles because:
1.) They break alignment so that you can't warp out
2.) When you fire on somebody with any gun he can warp out as well. Forcing somebody to warp out is usually what you want, if you want to destroy somebody you need to scramble him, no matter if you are using missiles or guns.
Also missiles always do the same damage per hit. They don't miss, have no tracking problems, etc.
Only exception are fast-moving frigates but turrets don't hit them either so that does not matter.
Furthermore they don't use cap
As you see, missiles actually make a pretty strong weapon
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Shadow Knight
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Posted - 2004.05.07 17:51:00 -
[16]
ack. yes, you can warp out from a turret too. but if you have turrets, and they have missiles, you can shoot them with the turrets, warp out before hte missiles hit you. And if they chase you, you can do the same again...
and yes, its all very well saying that EM torps can dish out 2700 damage in one salvo, but a) that salvo cant all hit together and b) anyone whos vaguely more intellegent than your average budgie would fit an EM hardener if they were fighting missiles.
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.05.07 20:09:00 -
[17]
yeah but a laser does less damage against an EM-hardened shield as well so the missiles still beat it by far.
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