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Ashen Angel
AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.24 16:38:00 -
[31]
It could use a boost, but it does serve a purpose.
Many have a couple days to go from it to a retriever, so they use it. Versus spending those 4 days training up to use a cruiser... and then spending another 4 days getting up to a retriever
A good example is those going mini engineer and working into barges. They feel the training is better spent on the barge related skills vs adding in the frigate and cruiser skills (They still go for a bit into industrials, but focus on the mining barge really)
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Lieutenant Isis
Gristle Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:33:00 -
[32]
Aye. This ship needs a good look.
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demonfurbie
Minmatar
Covert-Nexus
White Core
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:15:00 -
[33]
id like to see it get a role bonus to say mining veld amount then it would serve a reason maybe even make it mine more veld than a cov with barge 5 and for the love of got gie it some cap and maybe even 15m3 drone bay to help kill the high sec belt rats
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:51:00 -
[34]
Again... why would anyone design an entire type of ship... to mine a single flavor of ore?
Mercoxit I can ~almost~ understand, with the explosion or whatever. But again, it's not hard at all for a Hulk to sit outside that blast radius and mine like mad. And saying "This ship can do it faster" makes no sense, when the Hulk as 3 Strips and the Procurer/Skiff has 1.
So whether it's Mercoxit, or Veldspar... why would O.R.E. make a ship JUST to mine that? When they could design larger forms of Mining Drones, and make a ship that specializes in those.
Then that sad little lonely ship will actually see some use.
---
Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"People don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Ashen Angel
Minmatar
AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:58:00 -
[35]
 Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Again... why would anyone design an entire type of ship... to mine a single flavor of ore?
Mercoxit I can ~almost~ understand, with the explosion or whatever. But again, it's not hard at all for a Hulk to sit outside that blast radius and mine like mad. And saying "This ship can do it faster" makes no sense, when the Hulk as 3 Strips and the Procurer/Skiff has 1.
So whether it's Mercoxit, or Veldspar... why would O.R.E. make a ship JUST to mine that? When they could design larger forms of Mining Drones, and make a ship that specializes in those.
Then that sad little lonely ship will actually see some use.
The trick is the skiff's bonus to mercoxit mining yield, much like the mack's to ice
A tricked out hulk is 82 units and hour vs the skiff's 1640 /hr (quoting from the miner's guide)
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:24:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ashen Angel
The trick is the skiff's bonus to mercoxit mining yield, much like the mack's to ice
A tricked out hulk is 82 units and hour vs the skiff's 1640 /hr (quoting from the miner's guide)
Which is all fine and well... but what's the point? How is Mercoxit the SINGLE MOST valuable mineral in all the universe, that O.R.E. would design a ship to collect such massive amounts. I could understand if Mercoxit were the fuel that powered every Capacitor... but it's not. I'm pretty sure it's just another ore, to make another mineral, to make something.
Unless I'm missing something here, then I think it's a waste of a ship and the training to operate it, when it's only good for a VERY specific purpose.
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Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"People don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Ashen Angel
Minmatar
AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:55:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 24/07/2008 21:30:22
Originally by: Ashen Angel
The trick is the skiff's bonus to mercoxit mining yield, much like the mack's to ice
A tricked out hulk is 82 units and hour vs the skiff's 1640 /hr (quoting from the miner's guide)
Which is all fine and well... but what's the point? How is Mercoxit the SINGLE MOST valuable mineral in all the universe, that O.R.E. would design a ship to collect such massive amounts. I could understand if Mercoxit were the fuel that powered every Capacitor... but it's not. I'm pretty sure it's just another ore, to make another mineral, to make something else. Mostly a handful of T2 modules, and some Faction ammo.
Unless I'm missing something here, then I think it's a waste of a ship and the training to operate it, when it's only good for a VERY specific purpose.
Current price is 12k per, and you get 2 unit per unit of ore. so it is one of the rarest minerals
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Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.07.24 22:30:00 -
[38]
Merc is needed for every T2 item. It's that mineral.
T1 item + random stuff + mercoxit = t2.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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demonfurbie
Minmatar
Covert-Nexus
White Core
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Posted - 2008.07.24 23:41:00 -
[39]
and veld is the most common and needed ore why not make a ship that starting miners can mine in and it would have a purpose in any mining fleet.
in its current state a mining cruiser is better and a ret can mine more ice in what 2 days of training. so veld or even veld and scord (non region spec. ore) can be mined faster but with no tank and has to jet mine. then it would have a purpose for all miners to have one.
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar
AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.24 23:44:00 -
[40]
Originally by: demonfurbie
and veld is the most common and needed ore why not make a ship that starting miners can mine in and it would have a purpose in any mining fleet.
in its current state a mining cruiser is better and a ret can mine more ice in what 2 days of training. so veld or even veld and scord (non region spec. ore) can be mined faster but with no tank and has to jet mine. then it would have a purpose for all miners to have one.
Not everyone trains for cruiser though, so it is a big boost from a frigate.
But yeah it needs tweaking, tank wise at least (all the barges and most of the exhumers do)
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:24:00 -
[41]
First off, I'm pretty sure everyone HAS to train for a Cruiser at some point. They can skip a Destroyer, or a HAC, or something like that. But to get from Frigates to BS, you have to have Cruisers.
As for Veld... there are already ships that allow rookie miners to get at Veld... they're called Mining Frigates.
There's no way you can expect a rookie to grind their way into a Barge or Exhumer just so they can get at 0.9 ores. Unless you are talking about a Hulk, which is geared towards ALL ores except Mercoxit.
T2 Strips, with T2 Crystals... that's how you get at Veld faster.
As for Mercoxit, if it is necessary for building ANY kind of T2 items... I still think it's a waste of an entire ship.
Maybe it's the Care Bear in me, but I try to rationalize most of the ideas that get suggested around here. "Why would people living day to day in a world like this... come up with an idea like..."
So I really don't see designing a ship JUST to collect Veld. I really don't see why they would have designed a ship JUST to collect Mercoxit either. Just put Deep Core lasers onto a Hulk, and you'd imagine that 3x Lasers could work better than the 1x on a Skiff. Perhaps they could have taken all the gizmos and gadgets inside the Skiff, and made a simple Mining Laser Upgrade to do the same thing?
Then the Hulk could go to work, and the Procurer/Skiff could find a real use in life.
---
Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"People don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Ashen Angel
Minmatar
AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:50:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
First off, I'm pretty sure everyone HAS to train for a Cruiser at some point. They can skip a Destroyer, or a HAC, or something like that. But to get from Frigates to BS, you have to have Cruisers.
As for Veld... there are already ships that allow rookie miners to get at Veld... they're called Mining Frigates.
There's no way you can expect a rookie to grind their way into a Barge or Exhumer just so they can get at 0.9 ores. Unless you are talking about a Hulk, which is geared towards ALL ores except Mercoxit.
T2 Strips, with T2 Crystals... that's how you get at Veld faster.
As for Mercoxit, if it is necessary for building ANY kind of T2 items... I still think it's a waste of an entire ship.
Maybe it's the Care Bear in me, but I try to rationalize most of the ideas that get suggested around here. "Why would people living day to day in a world like this... come up with an idea like..."
So I really don't see designing a ship JUST to collect Veld. I really don't see why they would have designed a ship JUST to collect Mercoxit either. Just put Deep Core lasers onto a Hulk, and you'd imagine that 3x Lasers could work better than the 1x on a Skiff. Perhaps they could have taken all the gizmos and gadgets inside the Skiff, and made a simple Mining Laser Upgrade to do the same thing?
Then the Hulk could go to work, and the Procurer/Skiff could find a real use in life.
Nope, everything over frigates is optional. Not everyone picks up combat ship skills.
Some pick up industrial and mining ships. And that is it.
And by extension of that reasoning there should be no focused ships at all. you should just need a module and pick the chassis you want...
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Pateria Wimbishi
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:37:00 -
[43]
Yeah, the whole argument about what people train to use what is completely pointless.
I am an industrialist, I do not fight, I do not support fights, I do not scout. I build and I sell, that is all.
I have BS 5, but that was before barges, so I could mine. Now I have Exhumers 5, all the relevant reprocessing skills, manufacturing skills... I essentially have industry maxed out.
How much gunnery do I have trained?
500 points. Yes, five hundred. So, don't expect that we industrialists cross-train to Pew Pew. Some do, some dont, just like you Pew Pew bloodletters crosstrain to mine/build.
That said; YES, the procuror is broken in a hopeless way. A few ideas presented have some merit, but I especially find the 'T1 Empire Rorqual' idea to be a pretty decent one (1 factory slot to compress ores at 2x the time, plus the 1 mining laser). No gang bonuses or whatnot, just the compression slot. It would make this crappy miner a decent fleet-mining support ship that can do it's own little bit of mining. |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.07.25 07:27:00 -
[44]
I agree that the Procurer needs some work. It can easily be outmined by a Retriever, Scythe, Osprey, etc (pretty much any dedicated mining ship other than the mining frigates).
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. |
galphi
Unitary Senate
Unitary Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.07.25 09:30:00 -
[45]
Edited by: galphi on 25/07/2008 09:30:53
The only time a Procurer is useful is in the time it takes to train for the Retriever - hardly an endorsement for buying this thing. It definitely needs a look. May I suggest:
1. Increase the "generous drone bay"* to 15m3, at least then you can go into systems below 0.8
2. Increase the cargohold to 2000m3. At the moment you can't even hold two cycles worth of ore.
It'll still suck, but not quite as badly 
*Actual quote from it's description!
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Barstander
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.22 02:15:00 -
[46]
minor necro because this issue came up again in ships and modules. I don't think CSM discussed this, if they did, sorry for bringing it up again.
I know CSM doesn't want to spend time on specific ship fixes, thats cool. But maybe just pass along a note to CCP with a post it note saying 'seriously?'
the ship is essentially useless and could use a better role or buff
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Joss Sparq
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.22 02:24:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Joss Sparq on 22/08/2008 02:25:38
Running out to lunch and unable to read in detail for now, but:
Perhaps change the Procurer to a (Tech I) Gas Harvester bonused Barge?
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.08.22 10:54:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 22/08/2008 10:54:18
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Which is all fine and well... but what's the point? How is Mercoxit the SINGLE MOST valuable mineral in all the universe, that O.R.E. would design a ship to collect such massive amounts.
I *THINK* that CCP wanted Mercoxit to be something dangerous that only specialized ships can mine.
That would explain the skill and specialized lasers. A specialized ship is then only the next step.
Something went wrong, though. Or they scrapped the idea?
Originally by: Joss Sparq
Perhaps change the Procurer to a (Tech I) Gas Harvester bonused Barge?
Sounds goo, IMO. It still has to be improved, though, it is ridiculous that combat ships do a better job than the specialist ships.
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I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner. |
Karentaki
Gallente
Fighting While Intoxicated
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Posted - 2008.08.22 11:38:00 -
[49]
Originally by: MadMax Miner
You can not compare BS to mining barges because they are built for different mission roles. yea you will have a better out put with a BS with shitty mining skills then a procurer with shitty mining skills. Once your skills improve each ships use improves also. You need the procure so you will know how to operate its tech II version and if you think the skiff sucks then once again you are not using it for its intended mission.
Same stupid comparison is made that you will make more money doing missions then mining.....and yes you will once your at a high enough skill and mission level. Once again however both serve different roles.
Oh yeah, of course, mining produces minerals whereas missions don't... Oh wait... Silly me 
And to reply to the OP, the procuror has a role - it's the mining ship after a frigate for miners who don't want to train for combat ships.
============
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.22 13:31:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Karentaki
And to reply to the OP, the procuror has a role - it's the mining ship after a frigate for miners who don't want to train for combat ships.
Three points to make:
1) So then Frigates are for what, knitting?
2) The Cruiser skill doesn't necessitate combat. Combat can happen at any time, no matter what you fly. Also, do you know what a Logistics ship is?
3) The Procurer is still awful. Refer to all the posts saying the Procurer is awful, some of them make good points about why it is awful.
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Reithan
Dead 2 Rights
TransWarp Ventures
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Posted - 2008.08.22 14:58:00 -
[51]
Procurer = BAED, mmmkay?
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.22 15:00:00 -
[52]
Supporting Procurer Love!
It's cute!
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Ideas for: Mining
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Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.08.25 06:46:00 -
[53]
That is correct statement.
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Taradis
Amarr
The Imperial Assassins
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.25 08:09:00 -
[54]
why neone would train that P.O.S i dunno i skipped it and went for the next one up doesn't take too long to train up.....
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.08.25 11:54:00 -
[55]
Increase dronebay to 15m3, small cap increase, perhaps increase its bonus slightly so it is actually better than a cruiser but not as good as a retriever.
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Molock Saronen
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Posted - 2008.08.25 12:24:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Joss Sparq
Perhaps change the Procurer to a (Tech I) Gas Harvester bonused Barge?
Sounds good to me. This ship has to have a specific role where it can be best in as opposed to a retriever. The time to train for a retriever is so short it's not worth bying a procurer for 'general' mining. |
Benaiah Tulwar
Epitoth Fleetyards
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Posted - 2008.08.26 06:14:00 -
[57]
I mined with an Arbitrator (2 Mining Laser IIs, Mining Laser Upgrade, 5 Mining Drones, and a Mining Drone Rig) for quite a while, and was content. Once I finally got access to Mining Barge, I compared the stats of the Procurer and the Retriever for about 10 seconds, and never gave the former a second thought! Sad, sad, sad. /me loves his Retriever. 
Supported!
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Cheap Dude
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:31:00 -
[58]
Quote:
I *THINK* that CCP wanted Mercoxit to be something dangerous that only specialized ships can mine.
That would explain the skill and specialized lasers. A specialized ship is then only the next step.
Something went wrong, though. Or they scrapped the idea?
Indeed it went wrong.. and it is called Drones and loot refining
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Confirmed
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.26 17:24:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Confirmed on 26/08/2008 17:24:36
Procurer needs some buffs.
Some I can think of:
Should be able to hold 5 Light drones (scout or mining drones)
Would be nice if it had a bonus similar to the vexor for mining drones only, that would solve it's yield problem easily.
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Kahega Amielden
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.26 17:51:00 -
[60]
Yeah, the procurer could also get a boost to mining amount...but not veldspar. Holy shit we have enough veldspar miners in hisec as it is. Should get a bonus to Hedgberdite and the other one found in .3 and lower.
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