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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
roq deelim
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Posted - 2008.06.07 12:23:00 -
[61]
Edited by: roq deelim on 07/06/2008 12:23:18
i think the only group of players who will somehow profit of FW are lowsec pirates.
if you continue with fw missions beeing far away in hostile space you will dever draw hi-sec mission runers into this new expirience as intended. dont forget: mission runners are mostly solo players - even if the're in a corp, they seldom group up.
if i'm out for some ganking in fw i just have to grab a nice pvp ship and roam related lowsec...no need for crapy missions, no timers, no go 10-jump wherever..and i'm sure there will be enough targets flying paper thin frigate-sized ships..
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EadTaes
Veni Vidi Vici.
XIII Legio
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Posted - 2008.06.07 12:28:00 -
[62]
Venkul Mul just some clarifications.
1) You don't need to bring back anything. Just gotta site at the beacon for 10 to 30 minutes depending on the plex lvl.
2) Agree even after it balances out. NOT to mention you always be running out of critical supplies all the time like cap charges and that finding resupply points will be hard.
3) My sentiment exactly.
4) Actually kill the rats doesnt take to long. They just do a lot of damage. Which mean the people attributed to clear the plex will need a PvE fit while the rest ahve a PvP fit.
5) Bingo didn't take a genius to figure that one out. By the time you capture the plex hostiles will be harassing you so much getting out will be the only priority. And gate camp will abound. I know ill be gate camping.
6) Well Missions in FW should not be soloable and their wont be since their is PvE and PvP into one. So you corp mates better participate.
0.0 Policing, Econnomic Control & NPC Agents |
Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.06.07 16:01:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 07/06/2008 16:01:08
 Originally by: EadTaes
Venkul Mul just some clarifications.
1) You don't need to bring back anything. Just gotta site at the beacon for 10 to 30 minutes depending on the plex lvl.
Read carefully, please, point 1) was about missions. some of the missions are about killing a target, other require bringing back a item.
Originally by: EadTaes
2) Agree even after it balances out. NOT to mention you always be running out of critical supplies all the time like cap charges and that finding resupply points will be hard.
3) My sentiment exactly.
4) Actually kill the rats doesnt take to long. They just do a lot of damage. Which mean the people attributed to clear the plex will need a PvE fit while the rest ahve a PvP fit.
Killing the rats, no, the time to shift the complex control is 10 minutes minimum. Plus navigating between entry point and beacon.
Originally by: EadTaes
5) Bingo didn't take a genius to figure that one out. By the time you capture the plex hostiles will be harassing you so much getting out will be the only priority. And gate camp will abound. I know ill be gate camping.
6) Well Missions in FW should not be soloable and their wont be since their is PvE and PvP into one. So you corp mates better participate.
Sure but the reward should be proportionate to the number of players needed.
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Solid Res
Haven Front
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Posted - 2008.06.07 16:32:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Solid Res on 07/06/2008 16:32:32
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
What this means is that if people consistently take a long time to run a mission the autobalancing system will start calculating the rewards and time allowances upwards to compensate.
I have a great idea. How about start the rewards really high and then have the autobalancing start calculating the time and rewards down to compensate for how fast people are doing the missions. This will give a boost to getting people to try it out. Get them hooked first, then start rewarding less after.
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.07 19:34:00 -
[65]
You're not supposed to do the missions for the ISK... There's no such thing as "FW mission running" and there shouldnt be. Its a way of attracting targets, you morons.
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Mercenary Forces |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.07 22:59:00 -
[66]
Originally by: El Yatta
You're not supposed to do the missions for the ISK... There's no such thing as "FW mission running" and there shouldnt be. Its a way of attracting targets, you morons.
Well mate we have FW for this. After all as you are saying the purpose is to do some fighting and help your faction gain or protect some systems. Missions require you to have ships fitted in a certain way (not very helpful against other players) and also require you go back thus leaving the system open for retaking.
Strategically speaking that isn't very sane is it?
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Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
KtB
Telum Cuspis
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Posted - 2008.06.08 00:54:00 -
[67]
Right first of all, i have no social skills at all on tranq and i pvp for my *isk*.
I tried one of these so called "pvp" missions for the faction on test server. I travlled 14 jumps in a t1 frigate for an even worst mission than the training missions when you first start the game. It was seriously pathetic and i wasted my time even doing it, nevermind the crap loyalty point reward. If i really wanted to points i could do the same in empire for 14 less jumps and get rewarded more. This was seriously pathetic.
I'm sorry but this is not pvp missions.. This is pve missions for the hardcore pve'rs that think they are leet and awesome and "yay im a pvp'r cos i do this easy ****". They are PATHETIC!
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.06.08 02:59:00 -
[68]
Under what conditions would you be able to enter into FW but not take standing hits if you wanted to treat it like a regular war and just station/gate camp? Does shooting hostile faction navy npcs incur faction hits? Does shooting rival player factions at war incur a hit?
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Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Jagre Hett
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Posted - 2008.06.08 04:53:00 -
[69]
Originally by: El Yatta
You're not supposed to do the missions for the ISK... There's no such thing as "FW mission running" and there shouldnt be. Its a way of attracting targets, you morons.
It's supposed to attract the high sec pve players into pvp and in essence ease them in. Instead with absolutely abysmal rewards, the pve players will lose a ship or two then just return to high sec or non FW missions since that is where the reward is. Thus the attempt at introducing more pvp to acclimate the pve'ers to it fails since most pve'ers do it for the isk and rewards with the lower risk. to get them into pvp you will have to raise the rewards for such mission meant to bring them into possible pvp, since the people will still want rewards.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Central Research Nexus
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Posted - 2008.06.08 08:18:00 -
[70]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
I for one am worried about these missions not being very popular at first, but then I remember how excited I am to start roaming around in small frigate gangs looking for targets. If each member has a mission objective then somehow the gang has more drive, more purpose, the mission reward will really just be a secondary thing compared to the thrill of getting back in one piece 
Too bad half the thrill is hoping a camp of some sort capable of absolutely barbecuing your little frigate gang doesn't show up between the time you form the gang, complete the crapfest, and return to turn it in, because SURELY there aren't any SPIES or anything watching your militia channel, not at all.
I'm restricting my participation in FW to things that don't require ******** levels of risk for zero gain - that includes going 15 jumps into lowsec in a size-restricted gang to do PvE in hopes of getting PvP other than the enemy countering my gang before I even hit the mission, sorry. Running a system control plex is one thing, but doing a worthless mission? If I wanted to get PvP doing THAT, I'd get a normal level 4 mission with actual payout and proximity to the agent and bait pirates with it.
Just another example of the devs' visions being out of touch with reality, I guess
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WTB Armor Nerf Hardener II, 10^100 isk OBO |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.08 10:23:00 -
[71]
Wow, some of you guys just don't get it. I mean CCP Gangleri made two good posts on it, I've tried to explain it but it's like you won't even read his posts. Maybe if they renamed FW missions to assignments you would guys would get the fact that these aren't supposed to be anything like pve missions.
You are not supposed to be able to fuel all your losses via mission rewards. I've been able to fuel pvp via my own loot, but still most people have a mission/mining/ratting alt (I do too) to give out income. Eve is a harsh place and you have to deal with it however you can, you don't just lose a ship and miraculously get a new mission that covers the cost for your lost ship. You earn up a war chest, go out and pvp until you need to retreat and build up again.
I don't have any doubt that missions will happily auto-balance. There are a lot of corps who want in on FW and missions will be completed. There are plenty of people who roam around looking for kills and stuff to do who will happily take a mission into hostile space, that's what they do already! I predict FW will be very popular from launch and then go through periods or low activity and intense activity when the successful corps in FW either leave or enter.
Most combat players don't think about "How will doing this make me profit?" If they did, they wouldn't be involved in PvP, they'd be running level 4s or whatever in empire. They PvP because it is fun and there a lot of people who LOVE pvp and just can't find any action, FW is for them, god bless CCP.
Originally by: CCP Casqade
Please refrain from making assumptions on game mechanics and then presenting them as facts before testing them yourself.
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Zhang Ramses
Chaos From Order
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Posted - 2008.06.08 11:29:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Most combat players don't think about "How will doing this make me profit?" If they did, they wouldn't be involved in PvP, they'd be running level 4s or whatever in empire. They PvP because it is fun and there a lot of people who LOVE pvp and just can't find any action, FW is for them, god bless CCP.
Like any long term sustainable activity in eve, it comes down to risk vs. reward. If CCP didn't intend for pilots to partake in FW for any long period of time, that would be one thing. Like if they just wanted pve people to be weekend warriors and die in lowsec, no problem.
But a lot of people will have to leave their alliance or corp to do this. Then there are all the ranks that they're making a big hoopla out of. And the LP stores. So this tells me that they want people to do this long term (probably at least a week or two before writing it off). And as a long term activity, it is not sustainable.
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Jagre Hett
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Posted - 2008.06.08 14:39:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
You are not supposed to be able to fuel all your losses via mission rewards. I've been able to fuel pvp via my own loot, but still most people have a mission/mining/ratting alt (I do too) to give out income. Eve is a harsh place and you have to deal with it however you can, you don't just lose a ship and miraculously get a new mission that covers the cost for your lost ship. You earn up a war chest, go out and pvp until you need to retreat and build up again.
One shouldn't be forced to run an alt to bring in money. The fact still remains that this is meant to draw pve players into pvp (not just bring pvp players into low sec) and what most pve players, whether mission runners or miners, want is income and reward that is worth the risk. Missions must be completed to auto balance. they may be completed a couple times but then massive gate camps and pirate activity will will start to crush those that are running these mission seeking VP for their side. Whether people want to admit it or not, a large portion of the player base seeks profits no matter what they do. Pirates seeks profits, those corps in 0.0 sec seek profits and other rewards. The rewards for the amount of risk in this FW is not worth it.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Do Or Die And Live Or Try
The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.06.08 21:28:00 -
[74]
I have tried it on Singularity and I like it.
You go to a system, see a strategic point being attacked, check it's "size" and then just warp to it. Then you just try to kill whoever is there the best way you can.
What is not to like?
I don't have to sit 5 hours on a gate, waiting for 1 frigate to show up. I don't have to have 50 spies in every corp im at war with to know where my enemies are. I don't have to sit 5 hours at a station, waiting for my targets to undock.
If there are no targets, I search for a plex and hope a target shows up so I can have the fun I want. The NPC's are tougher than normal mission, but than again, it's not supposed to be solo grinding. If no targets show up, i've atleast had the fun of conqurering the plex and gaining some standing, in opposite of typical present tactics of gaining, well, nothing.
So I'm looking forward to the patch and killing a lot of minnies and pirates.
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Jack Jombardo
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Posted - 2008.06.08 22:22:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 08/06/2008 22:25:34
For lowsec Pirates it might be a win. For all other (highsec players) it's a dead horse that will be ignored mostly. Sure, at the beginning some might test it but after the first few gatecamps and gangsquads they will drob again and return to standart highsec.
It will for sure be a sloughterhouse for some days and then will die fast, not more not less.
It's a nice try to bring (force) more people to lowsec but it doesn't solve the main problem of lowsec => to many mini-Rambo-wannabes.
Highsecers don't jurny through lowsec becouse there are no rewards (there are some nice), they don't do it becouse it's far to easy for Pirates to gang them. And FW don't chang it but trys to bring even more mini-Rambos out there.
EDIT: and 0.0 players will ignore it from the beginning mostly as they for sure don't like to drob there Corps/Allys for it.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Do Or Die And Live Or Try
The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.06.09 05:48:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 08/06/2008 22:25:34
For lowsec Pirates it might be a win. For all other (highsec players) it's a dead horse that will be ignored mostly. Sure, at the beginning some might test it but after the first few gatecamps and gangsquads they will drob again and return to standart highsec.
It will for sure be a sloughterhouse for some days and then will die fast, not more not less.
It's a nice try to bring (force) more people to lowsec but it doesn't solve the main problem of lowsec => to many mini-Rambo-wannabes.
Highsecers don't jurny through lowsec becouse there are no rewards (there are some nice), they don't do it becouse it's far to easy for Pirates to gang them. And FW don't chang it but trys to bring even more mini-Rambos out there.
EDIT: and 0.0 players will ignore it from the beginning mostly as they for sure don't like to drob there Corps/Allys for it.
I disagree. Yes some will be discouraged by the ganking, but many will learn to start a gang in the militia channel before venturing out into low sec. That will mean the 5 man pirate camp will be hit by a 10 man noob squad. They will probably lose the first few times they meet the camp, but they will learn and soon the pirates will be pressed.
Only thing CCP needs to do, is increase the group turn in limit from 5 to 10-15. Just keep the LP's low but give it to all participants.
Yes, 0.0 people will probably not participate, but they already have FW in a sense. They are fighting over territory and strategic systems, as "we" will be doing in FW.
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.06.09 06:53:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Only thing CCP needs to do, is increase the group turn in limit from 5 to 10-15. Just keep the LP's low but give it to all participants.
Any idea on how the rounding work, splitting 25 LP between 10 participants?
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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:05:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 09/06/2008 11:06:21
In a month or so, when a level 1 FW mission pays out a reward equal to a level 4 high sec mission due to the auto reward adjustment system, I am going to write "HAHA"-mails too all the fools in this thread.
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Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
Tharrn
Vigilia Valeria Expeditionary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:38:00 -
[79]
If it ever does (which I highly doubt) I'll maybe start missions then and will write HAHA mails to all the fools who did them just to get the auto-balancer going.
Now recruiting! |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:42:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 09/06/2008 11:06:21
In a month or so, when a level 1 FW mission pays out a reward equal to a level 4 high sec mission due to the auto reward adjustment system, I am going to write "HAHA"-mails too all the fools in this thread.
Too bad this ain't going to happen. Especially for lv1 missions of FW. Maybe for lv3 or lv4 but also in order for that to happen there must be some missions completed. Which is the hard part.
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Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:48:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
In a month or so, when a level 1 FW mission pays out a reward equal to a level 4 high sec mission due to the auto reward adjustment system, I am going to write "HAHA"-mails too all the fools in this thread.
Deal, but then how many months we should wait to send you HAHA mails it that don't happens? 6 seem a fair waiting time.
On a more serious note, remember that there is a hard cap for rewards based on agent system and level of the mission. I dubt it has been changed/lifted for FW missions.
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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:05:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 09/06/2008 13:06:06
You guys are so easy.
You do not believe at level 1 FW mission very quickly could rival a level 4 high sec courier mission in terms of reward*? I never stated that I was comparing with the most profitable level 4 missions, which btw. in average takes quite some time to complete for most people, who do not fly a mission ship costing billions.
*: By reward I refer only to direct cash rewards and Loyalty Points as these are the only things the auto-balancer can tune on.
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Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
Kaylana Syi
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:06:00 -
[83]
I don't see the problem with what you are describing. Blacks Ops ship, cov. cyno ship with nano, and stealth bombers look like they will be worth while.
Adapt.
Team Minmatar
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.06.09 14:11:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I don't see the problem with what you are describing. Blacks Ops ship, cov. cyno ship with nano, and stealth bombers look like they will be worth while.
Adapt.
Now there is an intersting tactical idea. Send one really fast ship with a cyno in, jump an entire covert ops gang in. heh.. if people start doing that it might be enough for me to finally train up covert ops and join in.
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Jack Jombardo
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:03:00 -
[85]
First the group limit is rised to 10 with this patch. But the gatecampers will rise from 5 mans to 10 or 15 mans very sone too. And then? Will/Should CCP rise the mission limit to 15? 20? 50?
For the "cloakers-squad" ... nice idear but will not work as even the new level 3 missions provide much more damage as normal level 3 do now. We needed 3 Habingers to complet one and even then two of us had to warp out, and finished it with all 3 into hull and we had NO PvP contact(!!! so you can imagin what you need WITH PvP contact). AND level 1, 2 and 3 missions just allow T1 frig/cruiser(assault)/bc(hac) size ships. So for level 4th it might be an option .. but does BlackOps realy have enough tank? I don't belive it.
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:41:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 09/06/2008 13:06:06
You guys are so easy.
You do not believe at level 1 FW mission very quickly could rival a level 4 high sec courier mission in terms of reward*? I never stated that I was comparing with the most profitable level 4 missions, which btw. in average takes quite some time to complete for most people, who do not fly a mission ship costing billions.
*: By reward I refer only to direct cash rewards and Loyalty Points as these are the only things the auto-balancer can tune on.
Put you in the buddy list, so if you get to send that HAHA mail it will be free of charge.
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Romeo Amore
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:09:00 -
[87]
Seems there are 2, maybe 3 camps here to me.
1) The target audience for FW, the high sec PvE'ers, who won't do this as the risk vs reward is too high. So if this is the point of FW then I believe it will fail for the forseeable future.
2) The low sec pirates who are queuing up for the feeding frenzy they see from the high sec PvE'ers coming into low sec. If my first point is correct, they'll be disappointed and it'll just go back to business as usual for them.
3) The 0.0 PvP'ers who don't want to leave their alliances but would ove the potential PvP opportunities. My own experiences suggest an large influx of n00b alts being made specifically to come for the PvP, without the risk of the main being forced from their 0.0 space.
If my 3rd point is correct then the low sec pirates will have the fun they're after, but maybe the 0.0 experienced pilots will make it less profitable than the low sec pirates anticipated. On the flip side it will mean that low sec does begin to be more used, which may in turn attract more of the hig sec PvE'ers who see trading opportunities there. In any event, the 0.0 PvP'ers are highly unlikely to bother with the missions, and will just go for the gate camp/plex scenarios.
Personally I think the missions will fail miserably, but FW will float albeit on a rather odd cushion of low SP alts
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Tommy Reslin
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:33:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Romeo Amore
Seems there are 2, maybe 3 camps here to me.
1) The target audience for FW, the high sec PvE'ers, who won't do this as the risk vs reward is too high. So if this is the point of FW then I believe it will fail for the forseeable future.
2) The low sec pirates who are queuing up for the feeding frenzy they see from the high sec PvE'ers coming into low sec. If my first point is correct, they'll be disappointed and it'll just go back to business as usual for them.
3) The 0.0 PvP'ers who don't want to leave their alliances but would ove the potential PvP opportunities. My own experiences suggest an large influx of n00b alts being made specifically to come for the PvP, without the risk of the main being forced from their 0.0 space.
If my 3rd point is correct then the low sec pirates will have the fun they're after, but maybe the 0.0 experienced pilots will make it less profitable than the low sec pirates anticipated. On the flip side it will mean that low sec does begin to be more used, which may in turn attract more of the hig sec PvE'ers who see trading opportunities there. In any event, the 0.0 PvP'ers are highly unlikely to bother with the missions, and will just go for the gate camp/plex scenarios.
Personally I think the missions will fail miserably, but FW will float albeit on a rather odd cushion of low SP alts
It's not only good for alts. It's also good for new players like me. I joined just 4 days ago and it sounds really good on my side. I have no delusions either about what it's going to be like. I'm looking foreward to conquering/defending factional areas while killing other players. I plan to gain ranks as I do this and I know that it's going to be a big isk sink. Since I'm new and can't afford a bunch of ships I sold a time card to fund the rifters I'll be losing as I get the hang of pvp. :)
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:34:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Tommy Reslin
Originally by: Romeo Amore
Seems there are 2, maybe 3 camps here to me.
1) The target audience for FW, the high sec PvE'ers, who won't do this as the risk vs reward is too high. So if this is the point of FW then I believe it will fail for the forseeable future.
2) The low sec pirates who are queuing up for the feeding frenzy they see from the high sec PvE'ers coming into low sec. If my first point is correct, they'll be disappointed and it'll just go back to business as usual for them.
3) The 0.0 PvP'ers who don't want to leave their alliances but would ove the potential PvP opportunities. My own experiences suggest an large influx of n00b alts being made specifically to come for the PvP, without the risk of the main being forced from their 0.0 space.
If my 3rd point is correct then the low sec pirates will have the fun they're after, but maybe the 0.0 experienced pilots will make it less profitable than the low sec pirates anticipated. On the flip side it will mean that low sec does begin to be more used, which may in turn attract more of the hig sec PvE'ers who see trading opportunities there. In any event, the 0.0 PvP'ers are highly unlikely to bother with the missions, and will just go for the gate camp/plex scenarios.
Personally I think the missions will fail miserably, but FW will float albeit on a rather odd cushion of low SP alts
It's not only good for alts. It's also good for new players like me. I joined just 4 days ago and it sounds really good on my side. I have no delusions either about what it's going to be like. I'm looking foreward to conquering/defending factional areas while killing other players. I plan to gain ranks as I do this and I know that it's going to be a big isk sink. Since I'm new and can't afford a bunch of ships I sold a time card to fund the rifters I'll be losing as I get the hang of pvp. :)
and you made a poor college student very happy he can't play for a month :)
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Chomapuraku
Templar Republic
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:03:00 -
[90]
would it hurt that bad to manually set the reward to a "rewarding" level and then let the auto-balancer work it out? if the mission paid, say 2x what it's actually worth to fly, you'd have everyone and his brother on these missions from day one like a fat camp on a pastry truck pile-up.
you'd have EVERYONE testing these missions out, not just the people that are willing to fly a mission without a reward. with all the sudden interest in the new space, you'd have traders looking for a good opportunity seeding the market from day one as well, hoping to make a quick buck, you'd have pirates primed and ready to come in, and in general, you'd have a much more pumped, enthusiastic crowd from the get-go |
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