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Samuel Miner
Ramdon Industries corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.05 23:00:00 -
[1]
I use to run missions in high sec Caldari space but I stayed away from the hubs beacause of lag and I was told people were always probing busy systems then 'stealing' the salvage, so I stayed away and never had a problem. A few days ago I thought I'd move to low sec and check out a few of them agents and they were a bit better say 20%ish ? Within the first two days I was probed twice. As I was aligned and a bit lucky, I have managed to escape both times. I have never probed anyone so I don't know how easy it is but I would like to ask YOU.
If you are a pirate what do you think ? to easy to hard, if so why and same question to mission runners or anyone else for that matter.
For the moment I have gone back to a 0.5 agent while I figure out a way to minimise the risk. If it turns out that it is very easy to probe someone and there is no equally easy was to counter it then I will probably not go to low sec as risk reward yada yada yada.
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Smantha Dering
Syntek Technology
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Posted - 2008.06.06 00:11:00 -
[2]
I run missions and for fun I probe down missions and salvage peoples wrecks. Missions for isk, salvage for fun. Probing is easy, I trained some skills and the very first probe got me into 3 missions. Probing is super easy. As for countering? stay on your toes.
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Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.06 00:14:00 -
[3]
there is a few few counters.
dont use drones, this means less chance of some one geting a hit on your pocket.
be more than 5 au away from a object, dosnt always work peopel who regularly probe down peopel have spots all over the place but yea keeps the unregulars away
also numbers work in your favor odly enough
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Smantha Dering
Syntek Technology
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Posted - 2008.06.06 00:28:00 -
[4]
In response to the previous post, I will add that since I run missions I have built up networks of scanning bookmarks that are off plane and away from the system objects. I also book mark where I find missions occasionally and build an expanding grid from there.
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Atreides Horza
GreenSwarm
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.06 00:52:00 -
[5]
It takes 19-30 seconds with a recon probe to get a hit, depending on skills and implants. Finding people in deadspace depends on how close you are. Once within Quest probe range, you're looking at around 1+ minutes for a warp to 0.
No, it's not too hard to hit mission runners... and here's why:
If you play it safe without your ego or your greed getting the best of you - and if you are actually present at your computer - you can do missions in low sec space perfectly safe. Yes - 100% safe.
The places you are at the greatest danger in is:
- Station undocks
- Deadspace beacons and mission gates
Use an alt to ensure you are not undocking into something/someone nasty waiting outside, and employ instawarps to exit the stations safely.
Never warp directly to your mission from the station. Instead, warp from a safe spot. A capable covops/mission scanner will be watching the direction you warp in from the station to get an idea of where to look for you - and if he's really good, he'll be within 1 au of you and ready to scan you down before you've entered the first level of the mission.
Once in the mission, move away from the beacon/warp-in point. Before moving out, drop or anchor a can there to uncloak recons/covops trying to enter unseen. Once that's done, get some distance - preferably 50 km or more.
While doing the mission, align towards an object and keep yourself up to speed. Make sure you dispatch any scrambling/webbing rats first thing. If something comes in - anything at all, be it shuttle, rookie ship or battleship - you warp out and dock your @ss up.
While doing the mission, be aware of your surroundings. Set your directional scanner to 4au range (app. 545m km or so) and be on the constant lookout for probes of any kind. Also, pay attention to suddenly appearing and disappearing recons/covops (they often uncloak when they hit your mission gate after they get the warp-to result).
Keep an eye on the local channel. Set pirates, pirate corps and notorious mission scanners to -10 standings and keep tabs on who's coming and going in local. Also, keep tabs on how close you are to stations and stargates, as well as warpable objects making it easier for people looking for you to get within probe range.
Read up on the mechanics of recon probes as opposed to scan probes and how they are utilized. Also, read up on how deadspace/mission areas affects the chances you getting probed out.
If possible, don't use drones. Drones can be probed out as well, effectively giving the probee five more chances to find you.
Don't ever go afk while in a mission or in space.
Don't stick around in a mission with hostiles out of what YOU think is his scrambling range. Odds are there's a cloaked arazu crawling up your @ss.
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Don't fly bigger than you have to. Battleships are easy to find and even easier to gank. They also make a lot more tempting targets.
General hints:
- In empire, don't EVER fire back on looters/salvage thiefs.
- When in doubt, warp out.
- When compromized, cancel your mission. Always. Coming back to a probed mission = death. And yes... some people WILL wait in system for an entire day.
- When your station or mission is camped, go to a backup system and do missions with a different agent (go by shuttle and keep seperate mission setups in each system).
- Don't smack. You only give them more reason to find you.
- Don't gloat if you get away. Some day you won't, and you'll look like a m0r0n.
- Don't ever underestimate your opponent - in particular how long he's willing to wait for you.
- Don't ever accept gang requests from unknowns.
- Don't touch other cans/peoples' wrecks.
- Just because you don't have aggro on someone doesn't mean they don't have aggro on you (if you aggro'ed them once, they can maintain the aggro by shooting/scrambling your wrecks).
To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace.
- Tacitus |
Aadi Grox
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.06.06 01:03:00 -
[6]
It is very easy to scan down missions, but it is good that scanning is something very easy and simple to do, rather than something complex.
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Isle Kilue
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Posted - 2008.06.06 01:05:00 -
[7]
Probing can be easy and hard. Results are chance based. Of course the higher your skills get will help you return better results and speedier results, however, it doesn't guarantee you'll get them.
In fact, you can have excellent lv4/5 drone skills + rigs + covert ops 5 + hardwires and you can still sit there probing out a mission runner for an hour, and then again, you can drop a probe some other time under the same circumstances and return a result within 20 seconds. That's where the chance comes in. People saying "it's easy" are exaggerating a bit.
There are definitely ways to reduce the risks you take, which has previously been stated (drones, warping, etc), however there will always be a possibility of getting probed. So the best thing you can do is keep on your toes. Watch local and your scanner and keep aligned. If you play it smart, you might get probed out 1000 times, but you should always be able to escape.
Good luck
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Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.06.06 01:05:00 -
[8]
you will get scanned down, but it's easy to get out
problem is, it's hard to then finish the mission
i turn down all low secs, personally
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.06.06 01:10:00 -
[9]
In order to know your enemy, try walking a mile in his moccasins. Sun Tzu said that. Go get yourself some probes and try probing down some mission runners in high-sec. I've given the same advice to ninja salvagers: try running some L4 missions, figure out what challenges the mission runner faces and how he fits his ship in response. If you haven't played both roles, you can't understand your enemy. And if you don't understand your enemy, you lose.
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[insert signature here] |
Smantha Dering
Syntek Technology
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Posted - 2008.06.06 01:21:00 -
[10]
Let me clarify then. Scanning is easy, as long as you are indiscriminate. Scanning for a specific pilot, very hard to do.
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Tai Paktu
Mortis Incarnatus
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Posted - 2008.06.06 01:42:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Atreides Horza
excellent advice
Damn man, don't give away all the tricks to staying alive, you're hurting business 
______
http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG |
Atreides Horza
GreenSwarm
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.06 03:57:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Atreides Horza on 06/06/2008 03:58:59
Originally by: Tai Paktu
Originally by: Atreides Horza
excellent advice
Damn man, don't give away all the tricks to staying alive, you're hurting business
One year+ ago, I'd be inclined to agree. These days, however, lo-sec has all the excitement of a deaf mute c0[omfg enuff with your g0ddamn censorship crap!]cktail party...
To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace.
- Tacitus |
Yesh
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.06.06 07:40:00 -
[13]
I think probing of mission runners in low sec is well balanced. Even with maxed out skills (which I do not have but other corp mates do) it can be a bit hit and miss.
And even if you are successfull, 50% of the time the target is aligned out or 100km away from the warp in point and so escapes.
A good way to avoid getting caught is to drop a can at the warp in point to decloak cloakers and to move a significant distance away from the warp in point and stay aligned to give yourself a chance to warp out. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:08:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tai Paktu
Originally by: Atreides Horza
excellent advice
Damn man, don't give away all the tricks to staying alive, you're hurting business
or we could just wardec you again 
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ThaDollaGenerale
Endless Destruction
Total Eclipse Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:16:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Once in the mission, move away from the beacon/warp-in point. Before moving out, drop or anchor a can there to uncloak recons/covops trying to enter unseen. Once that's done, get some distance - preferably 50 km or more.
That is a petionable action.
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:39:00 -
[16]
It depends
If within 4au, it's easy, since you can use Quest probes.
If not within 4au, It's hard, since Recon probes completely suck for finding deadspaces, unless you have drones out.
...
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Bhodistafa
Amen Anera
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:47:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale
Quote:
Once in the mission, move away from the beacon/warp-in point. Before moving out, drop or anchor a can there to uncloak recons/covops trying to enter unseen. Once that's done, get some distance - preferably 50 km or more.
That is a petionable action.
How is taking sensible precautions a petitionable action, or are you just trolling?
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Father Dibbles
Self Aggrandisement Society
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Posted - 2008.06.06 10:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Atreides Horza
Edited by: Atreides Horza on 06/06/2008 03:58:59
Originally by: Tai Paktu
Originally by: Atreides Horza
excellent advice
Damn man, don't give away all the tricks to staying alive, you're hurting business
One year+ ago, I'd be inclined to agree. These days, however, lo-sec has all the excitement of a deaf mute c0[omfg enuff with your g0ddamn censorship crap!]cktail party...
This man speaks truth... but he is a sinner and must repent.
May god save me, if it is right that he should do so...
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Atreides Horza
GreenSwarm
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:08:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Atreides Horza on 06/06/2008 11:09:30
Originally by: Atreides Horza
Originally by: Tai Paktu
Originally by: Atreides Horza
StuffZ
Damn man, don't give away all the tricks to staying alive, you're hurting business
More StuFFZ
This man speaks unquestionable truth... but he is a sinner and must repent.
Let him who is without Sin casteth the first stoneth. (Incidently, WTB: Sin)
... and let he whose @ss is narroW have arms too short for the scratching.
To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace.
- Tacitus |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Atreides Horza
POST
That pretty much wraps it up i think.
SKUNK
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Bhodistafa
Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale
Quote:
Once in the mission, move away from the beacon/warp-in point. Before moving out, drop or anchor a can there to uncloak recons/covops trying to enter unseen. Once that's done, get some distance - preferably 50 km or more.
That is a petionable action.
How is taking sensible precautions a petitionable action, or are you just trolling?
I think hes refering to be being petitionable to drop multiple cans at a gate to uncloak cov ops ships. CCP have muddided the waters on this one, but I believe it was originally declared an exploit to drop cans due to "Lag issues".
I would imagine one can in your mission spot warp in would be deemed ok.
SKUNK
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:12:00 -
[22]
Both as a prober and a mission-runner in low sec, depending on the day :P, I'd have to say I currently feel it is quite balanced. Probing is possible, but there are precautions you can take, but you still can get unlucky even if you take all precautions at the mission and the prober has some friends. That's about how it should be for me.
Then again I am generally in the school of thought which says that requiring some brains in order to get an actual engagement is quite ok, so you might need to take this with a grain of salt.
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
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RuleoftheBone
Ataraxia.
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:28:00 -
[23]
Its reasonably balanced...as much as I hate to admit it.
Its the crappy mechanics that are annoying. Whats the point of training all those friggin probe skills for the chance to spam the "analyze" button which basically rolls loaded electronic dice? Especially when one takes the time to narrow target to 5/15 degrees, sees the wrecks, sees the drones, and has them within 5AU and you get them and they warp out STABBED  .
Dennis Miller moment over.
-It's balanced for what the bleah mechanics allow.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Dotard
Suddenly Samurai
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
In order to know your enemy, try walking a mile in his moccasins. Sun Tzu said that. Go get yourself some probes and try probing down some mission runners in high-sec. I've given the same advice to ninja salvagers: try running some L4 missions, figure out what challenges the mission runner faces and how he fits his ship in response. If you haven't played both roles, you can't understand your enemy. And if you don't understand your enemy, you lose.
That ^^. However to get a more accurate idea of walking in MY mission probing moccasins make sure all your related probing skills are at Level 4.
---------------
Nerf You! Buff Me!
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RoninData
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.06.06 15:02:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
In order to know your enemy, try walking a mile in his moccasins.
After that who cares? You'll be a mile away and you'll have his moccasins.
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flashfresh
BLACK-FLAG
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Posted - 2008.06.06 15:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: RoninData
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
In order to know your enemy, try walking a mile in his moccasins.
After that who cares? You'll be a mile away and you'll have his moccasins.
LOL. Well said RoninD. Nick his shoes and peg it.
Flashfresh
ôMe, I'm dishonest, and you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to watch out for.'ö
http://i-pirate.blogspot.com
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Samuel Miner
Ramdon Industries corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.06 17:44:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Samuel Miner on 06/06/2008 17:46:08
Originally by: Atreides Horza
Advice I will take on board.
Thanks for this advice. I will drop a can at warp in, im sure that if it is an exploit someone from CCP will see this and say so.
P.S. thx for all the great responses more than I expected and I will try probing people out soon, how long wil it take to train the skills to a half decent level before I will be ready?
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Arctur Ceti
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Posted - 2008.06.06 17:56:00 -
[28]
When I feel I'm being probed out (and sometimes it's very obvious) I'll move around safe spots and cloak for hours at a time while I break from the game. I do this to wear the probers out; a kind of psychological warfare to discourage them from probing me. Other times I'll stay logged in for the entire night. More often than not the following day my system will be clear from prats and I can finish the mission uninterrupted.
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Tyrell Foehammer
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Posted - 2008.06.06 18:43:00 -
[29]
to stay alive in lowsec missions
1) move away from the warp in point
2) when fighting stay aligned
3) use drones as little as possible, when done return them
4) align when fighting
5) bring up your direction scan and set the distance to 600000000, turn off overview settings and look for ANY quest type probe. This means they are within 4au of you. They won't need any other probes. If you see warships on directional and they don't go away....be ready.
6) set your overview up with rats on the bottom (by icon) so you see the person who's name starts with say.... a "T" :)
7) keep an eye on local.
There is an easier way to probe you down but I don't want to devulge it sorry.
Just sit tight I'll find you.
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Tyrell Foehammer
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Posted - 2008.06.06 20:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Yesh
....
A good way to avoid getting caught is to drop a can at the warp in point to decloak cloakers and to move a significant distance away from the warp in point and stay aligned to give yourself a chance to warp out.
Ok this is pointless, while some deadspace have static warp in points from my xp, however most don't. I get a 0m hit on you...I'm warping in at 30 if I hit a beacon I'll uncloak anyway. Go ahead and drop a can if you're behind an acceleration gate big deal the gate will uncloak me anyway. I almost never fly into a mission in my cov ops if I'm probing.
This point makes no sense.
If the cov ops is there chances are his buddies are in warp right behind him from ~4au away.
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