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Is factional warfare heading for fail?

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Haas Tabris	Posted - 2008.06.06 00:44:00 - [1] To CCP: I was just reading about the factional warfare expansion and honestly, it sounds really cool for the folks who arenÆt part of an alliance. I donÆt know how much of your player base that is, but IÆve been a 0.0 alliance player for about a year now and it seems like most of the people who have been in the game a long time are all part of an alliance, whether theyÆre in 0.0 or not. I thought your factional warfare was going be some sort of overlay on the wardec system. I thought that if I wanted to try factional warfare, IÆd sign up my character with one of the factions, and then IÆm essentially a privateer flying under their flag and ôat warö with all other players in the opposing factions. I can do missions for faction NPCÆs or I can go out hunting for other players as wartargets. And when I grow weary of battling over stupid lowsec systems, I renounce my commission and go back to killing peeps in 0.0. But what IÆm reading is telling me that IÆm going to have to drop my alliance membership and join a new corp just to TRY the factional warfare content. Which seems really silly to me. Is there no way to add another tag to a characters portrait that says ôfaction wartargetö in the local chat? That would seem the easiest way to implement this. And it might keep the alliances out of it as well. You could then sign up for any faction that you wanted to and have a little ôfaction iconö which designates you a wartarget for anyone of the opposing faction(s). Anyone in the opposing factions could fire on me in empire space and vice versa, without concord or gate guns coming to the rescue. Right now, it looks like the major alliances will just set up a new corp for the folks who want to try FW. Which means they have to sort out the standings so that their guys can still get out to 0.0 to do what they do out there. Which means the entire alliance is going to have to pick one faction to fight for. Which, I think, you guys wanted to avoid from the beginning. I think if you launch Factional Warfare as it is right now youÆre just going to annoy most of your hardcore players. Or, you're going to get the alliances involved as alliances which is going to **** off the new players. Either way, much sadness.
Jack Amarr Sons Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.06.06 00:51:00 - [2] if you in an alliance you can join in FW its just that the alliance itself cannot join up collectively all its members into one faction. thats the only restriction that i'm aware of concerning that. --------------------------------------------------- "the power of the vote lies not with the people who cast the vote, but with the people who count them" - Joseph Stalin
Sabrin Kulu Kismet Foundation	Posted - 2008.06.06 00:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Jack Amarr if you in an alliance you can join in FW its just that the alliance itself cannot join up collectively all its members into one faction. thats the only restriction that i'm aware of concerning that. I believe this is incorrect. As far as I was aware if you are in an alliance you can't sign up for factional warfare; you must first leave your alliance, either by means of your corp leaving it or you leaving your corp. -----
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2008.06.06 01:00:00 - [4] Get a second character. You can buy 10 mil sp fighter for just 2 bil ISK. Surely in 0.0 this money can be easily made within a few months of playing if you lived there so long. You can also spend the summer training up a second character on your main account and by the end you'd have a pretty decent inty/af pilot. Some of the bigger alliances are indeed opening up corps for mains and alts to participate in FW. If you really don't want to get a second character, leave alliance on your main, try FW out, then you can always come back to the alliance. guide to game time codes
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.06.06 01:03:00 - [5] you know, if it fails, all the better for me. my alt will grind that stuff unopposed.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.06.06 01:03:00 - [6] Stuff the alliances. They have too much geared towards them and their pointless posturing out in 0.0. Now heres one aspect of the game where it might turn out to be a barrier to their participation, and they go nuts. "BUT I WANTS TO ROLEPLAY A SEARGANT AND I WANTS ME MEDALS ON ME BIO" Its really VERY simple. Weigh up whether the benefits you reap from being in your alliance outwiegh the benefits you percieve you will gain by leaving the alliance and joining an alt corp/starting your own corp to participate in faction warfare. Make your choice. And see how things pan out. SKUNK
Jmanis Catharg Stickler inc	Posted - 2008.06.06 01:06:00 - [7] Originally by: Faife you know, if it fails, all the better for me. my alt will grind that stuff unopposed. ^^ This :)
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.06.06 01:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Le Skunk Stuff the alliances. They have too much geared towards them and their pointless posturing out in 0.0. Now heres one aspect of the game where it might turn out to be a barrier to their participation, and they go nuts. "BUT I WANTS TO ROLEPLAY A SEARGANT AND I WANTS ME MEDALS ON ME BIO" Its really VERY simple. Weigh up whether the benefits you reap from being in your alliance outwiegh the benefits you percieve you will gain by leaving the alliance and joining an alt corp/starting your own corp to participate in faction warfare. Make your choice. And see how things pan out. SKUNK SKUNK for prime minister Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Shogun Archer Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.06 01:15:00 - [9] Edited by: Shogun Archer on 06/06/2008 01:18:30 Medals and Ribbons? Patsy pats on your little backs? "Thank you for your dedication to our gluttonous regime"? Certificates? Digital Boy Scout Pins? Sad, so sad, that all these wealthy nation states can offer you are dime store tokens of nothingness. Fight, Pod Pilots, fight for something real. Destroy not only the factions of your enemies, but your own factions as well. "Go on, get in the game. Go on, get in the game. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?"
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.06.06 02:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Shogun Archer "Go on, get in the game. Go on, get in the game. How can there be any podding if you don't turn on heat?" fixed that for you

Shadow Joy	Posted - 2008.06.06 02:35:00 - [11] Originally by: Haas Tabris To CCP: I was just reading about the factional warfare expansion and honestly, it sounds really cool for the folks who arenÆt part of an alliance. I donÆt know how much of your player base that is, but IÆve been a 0.0 alliance player for about a year now and it seems like most of the people who have been in the game a long time are all part of an alliance, whether theyÆre in 0.0 or not. CCP has the numbers. If they have published them, I haven't seen them. Originally by: Haas Tabris I thought your factional warfare was going be some sort of overlay on the wardec system. I thought that if I wanted to try factional warfare, IÆd sign up my character with one of the factions, and then IÆm essentially a privateer flying under their flag and ôat warö with all other players in the opposing factions. I can do missions for faction NPCÆs or I can go out hunting for other players as wartargets. And when I grow weary of battling over stupid lowsec systems, I renounce my commission and go back to killing peeps in 0.0. Ever think the new content may not be aimed at you? Originally by: Haas Tabris But what IÆm reading is telling me that IÆm going to have to drop my alliance membership and join a new corp just to TRY the factional warfare content. Which seems really silly to me. Opinion noted and given the same weight every other forum opinion is given. Originally by: Haas Tabris Is there no way to add another tag to a characters portrait that says ôfaction wartargetö in the local chat? That would seem the easiest way to implement this. And it might keep the alliances out of it as well. You could then sign up for any faction that you wanted to and have a little ôfaction iconö which designates you a wartarget for anyone of the opposing faction(s). Anyone in the opposing factions could fire on me in empire space and vice versa, without concord or gate guns coming to the rescue. CCP could have done it a lot of ways, but their decision is made and implemented. They know the code base better than anyone. Originally by: Haas Tabris Right now, it looks like the major alliances will just set up a new corp for the folks who want to try FW. Which means they have to sort out the standings so that their guys can still get out to 0.0 to do what they do out there. Which means the entire alliance is going to have to pick one faction to fight for. Which, I think, you guys wanted to avoid from the beginning. What makes you think that? Originally by: Haas Tabris I think if you launch Factional Warfare as it is right now youÆre just going to annoy most of your hardcore players. Or, you're going to get the alliances involved as alliances which is going to **** off the new players. Either way, much sadness. The hardcore players are the best people to annoy. They are the ones who will never leave. Why would new players be annoyed? If there is a large group of people in their faction they reap a lot of benefits. Regardless, only time will tell if FW succeeds. That fate will be decided by the vast majority who never come to the forums.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.06.06 02:36:00 - [12] Why do 0.0 alliances need acess to FW, don't they have their own FW ever since EvE was launched?
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.06.06 02:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Hanneshannes Why do 0.0 alliances need acess to FW, don't they have their own FW ever since EvE was launched? I have to say I would rather fight in 0.0 than fight in low sec any day of the week so I don't feel bad for alliances. I truely HATE gate guns GO RED WINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andrue	Posted - 2008.06.06 07:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Hanneshannes Why do 0.0 alliances need acess to FW, don't they have their own FW ever since EvE was launched? Exactly. FW is of course available to everyone but its primary target audience is Empire huggers who have been avoiding PvP because of the hassle. It is not supposed to be the next phase of the game that everyone moves into. It's a side-show for one particular demographic to get those players to move on to the real end-game out in 0.0. Tbh if you're already out in 0.0 then you're beyond FW. Joining in with your main would basically be a step backward. If you have a spare char you get them into it for the occasional five minutes when your alliance leadership isn't shouting at you but that's about it. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.06.06 07:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Andrue FW is of course available to everyone but its primary target audience is Empire huggers who have been avoiding PvP because of the hassle. Funny I thought that hassle was called gameplay: player coordination, experimenting on test, vetting fits and scouting. FW will not teach anyone new to PVP to do any of those things and thus it completely fails at generating successful long term pvp pilots. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Falcon Troy Awesome People Secret Corp	Posted - 2008.06.06 07:17:00 - [16] Edited by: Falcon Troy on 06/06/2008 07:18:29 Why are people still crying about this Alliance issue? Are you that thick that you believe every expansion will be for everyone? What about expansions issuing new content for Industrial players? Will you complain then that it's unfair that they have new content you don't have the skills for? You could train the skills if you wanted the new content and just like that fictional example you can join FW if you want to. Getting things in EVE requires sacrifice. Time for skills, ISK for items and, oh no, you might have to leave your Alliance or make an alt to play FW. Cry more. _____________ Hai.
Haas Tabris	Posted - 2008.06.06 07:37:00 - [17] Originally by: Falcon Troy Edited by: Falcon Troy on 06/06/2008 07:18:29 Why are people still crying about this Alliance issue? Are you that thick that you believe every expansion will be for everyone? What about expansions issuing new content for Industrial players? Will you complain then that it's unfair that they have new content you don't have the skills for? You could train the skills if you wanted the new content and just like that fictional example you can join FW if you want to. Getting things in EVE requires sacrifice. Time for skills, ISK for items and, oh no, you might have to leave your Alliance or make an alt to play FW. Cry more. dude, eve is a game. it should be FUN to play, i should be looking forward to FW. actually, i was looking forward to FW. but now ccp has gone and made it a pain in the ass to even try the content. what game publisher in their right mind does **** like that???
Falcon Troy Awesome People Secret Corp	Posted - 2008.06.06 07:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Haas Tabris dude, eve is a game. it should be FUN to play, i should be looking forward to FW. actually, i was looking forward to FW. but now ccp has gone and made it a pain in the ass to even try the content. what game publisher in their right mind does **** like that??? You're right. Cancel your subscription. CCP and the rest of us will miss you dearly. _____________ Hai.
Kan3r Blaze Noob Mercs	Posted - 2008.06.06 08:02:00 - [19] Originally by: Haas Tabris .... what game publisher in their right mind does **** like that??? Ones that are implementing something new, have explained why they can't currently involve alliances due to mechanics, design concerns and RP reasons, all of which can be found here I'd like now to think that you're going to go away and studiously read it...I wonder if I'll be disappointed.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.06.06 08:24:00 - [20] I dont know how many percent of the playerbase that tries Eve, grinds missions for a couple of months, get their favorite ship, and then quits because they cant find decent pvp. I bet its a pretty high percentage, at least for the ones who play mmorpg's partly for the pvp. We all know pvp can suck in Eve. Hours looking for it, then seconds to death or victory depending on the situation. Is that fun for most players? No its not. Faction Warfare will give players easy access to pvp where they find targets quickly, allowing them to get better at pvp much quicker than they would otherwise. I see that as its greatest strength. Even the 0.0 players should be happy since this will bring more players into 0.0 later on as well, when they feel comfortable with the pvp and wants to be part of something larger, something real. Of course the concept can fail, but I think its the right business decision for a game that is supposed to have a pvp focus. --- Its dead, Jim.

DrefsabZN	Posted - 2008.06.06 08:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Haas Tabris dude, eve is a game. it should be FUN to play, i should be looking forward to FW. actually, i was looking forward to FW. but now ccp has gone and made it a pain in the ass to even try the content. what game publisher in their right mind does **** like that??? Quit over it alliance boy, go on do it you know you want to, oh and can I have your stuff's? :) Thing is alliance are a big chunk of the player base and as I see it over the last few expansions they got some loving. FW is not for alliance's, big whoop-de-frackin-do CCP arnt obliged to make everything for alliances. In fact my hat goes off to then as the Alliance focus of the game was kind of depressing for those that arn't part of an alliance and don't to go join up with some 0.0 zerg. No ones saying you cant try out the mini-pvp that is FW, but you ether do it with an alt or you leave your alliance try it then go back later. :D
Desdoria Butterfly Effect Corp.	Posted - 2008.06.06 08:35:00 - [22] I am actually looking forward to it. Yes EVE is supposed to be fun and unless you are part of the 'Zerg' as Drefsab said, then getting into 0.0 is a pain in the proctorial assets. If you like your alliance then Kudo's for youm, don't do faction wars. If you don't then jump out of it and learn how to enjoy the game. CCP is the only Game company that i know of that expands its game and then gives it to their players for free. In Short, either quit your whinging and pass your gear off to someone else, or join FW and have a bit of fun with a new style of playing.
Yue Rubens Fnord Works DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.06 09:40:00 - [23] Outrageous! CCP, I'm a big fan but this is just unfair. I'm a CEO so I'm denied this expansion? My people leave because else they are denied this expansion? With all the cool features that made me dream of assisting my favourite faction in expanding... Now everytime I see an empyrean age ad I'll be sad; oh wait I can still train a new pvp char for doing this faction play? right! why didn't I think of that? This whole thing could have been a chance for corps to more effectively increase their faction standings towards highsec pos, just an idea. I really enjoyed this "privateer under their flag" thing in the OP, plz ccp reconsider. The moment you announced empyrean age, I had people convo me with things like "if fnord decides to join amarr, I'll leave as I'm minmatar" - also, we have just recently founded an alliance and put our heart into it, we'll not disband it to play cop's and robber's in lowsec. This is a punch in the face of multirace corps like mine, and into all the ceos/directors/members of cool, grown together corps like ours is. Well, thanks for the expansion anyway I appreciate it's for free btw, if I could use it, I'd appreciate it alot more.
DrefsabZN	Posted - 2008.06.06 09:45:00 - [24] listens to the violin's playing
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.06.06 09:55:00 - [25] Originally by: DrefsabZN listens to the violin's playing the new ubersaw actually has a slightly different violin sound than the standard saw when you taunt ^_^ ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Andrue	Posted - 2008.06.06 09:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Andrue FW is of course available to everyone but its primary target audience is Empire huggers who have been avoiding PvP because of the hassle. Funny I thought that hassle was called gameplay: player coordination, experimenting on test, vetting fits and scouting. FW will not teach anyone new to PVP to do any of those things and thus it completely fails at generating successful long term pvp pilots. The hassle is the difficulty of finding a decent target. You should try it sometime. You spend hours flying around low-sec (most of the time sat at a safe waiting for the 'go' signal). When you get there the combatant is either: * Some poor nub or a miner trying to mind his own business - we don't all get our rocks off from beating up the little guy. * Bait - and we get ganked. * Gone. Basically there is a sizeable proportion of the playerbase who just want to login, jump in a ship fly somewhere and have a fun fight with likeminded players. FW is aimed at those people. I also have my doubts that it will lead to a significant number of players heading out to 0.0 but it might. As long as it delivers on the first premise of making fun PvP available to anyone that wants it anytime they want it it will be a success, IMO. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
The Herrick SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.06.06 10:02:00 - [27] Alliance people can join FW too, it's called sitting in a FW warzone and killing everything regardless of political alignment. I mean sure you don't get the medals and lp ect but hey at least you get to do the fun part. ___________________________________________________ Originally by: Blane Xero Screw your stuff, can I have your wife?
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.06.06 10:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Andrue FW is of course available to everyone but its primary target audience is Empire huggers who have been avoiding PvP because of the hassle. Funny I thought that hassle was called gameplay: player coordination, experimenting on test, vetting fits and scouting. FW will not teach anyone new to PVP to do any of those things and thus it completely fails at generating successful long term pvp pilots. The hassle is the difficulty of finding a decent target. You should try it sometime. You spend hours flying around low-sec (most of the time sat at a safe waiting for the 'go' signal). When you get there the combatant is either: * Some poor nub or a miner trying to mind his own business - we don't all get our rocks off from beating up the little guy. * Bait - and we get ganked. * Gone. Basically there is a sizeable proportion of the playerbase who just want to login, jump in a ship fly somewhere and have a fun fight with likeminded players. FW is aimed at those people. I also have my doubts that it will lead to a significant number of players heading out to 0.0 but it might. As long as it delivers on the first premise of making fun PvP available to anyone that wants it anytime they want it it will be a success, IMO. I was excited about it too but then I realized its an impossible vision, you just can't reconcile the heavy cost of ship loss with spontaneous gameplay. We know there is a sizeable portion of people who want to login and get their snack on, their game on but how many of them will keep coming back after the first ship loss? I suppose we'll see. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.06.06 10:22:00 - [29] Originally by: The Herrick Alliance people can join FW too, it's called sitting in a FW warzone and killing everything regardless of political alignment. I mean sure you don't get the medals and lp ect but hey at least you get to do the fun part. I foresee much frustration, but hopefully also a lot of fun. --- Its dead, Jim.
Zey Nadar Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem Einherjar Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.06 10:25:00 - [30] Edited by: Zey Nadar on 06/06/2008 10:25:06 One thing to consider is that FW is mainly aimed at relatively new people, and new people are unlikely to voice their opinions or try out test server much. Currently we got oldtimers here who its not aimed at telling their opinions which we all know by now.. We'll know betteer only after its launched.



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