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Weryl
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Posted - 2008.06.08 14:40:00 -
[1]
Now that some of the issues with Amarr have been worked out. I would like to revist the idea of lowering Laser Cap use and removing the -10% Cap use per ship level on most Amarr ships. I would rather see more utilitarian bonuses on the ships. |
Deschenus Maximus
Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.06.08 14:49:00 -
[2]
I agree, but people seem to think this will make Amarr ships automatically overpowered. That's really not the case. CCP could give us some mild bonuses like tracking, or cap recharge. Would still be more interesting that the cap use bonus.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.08 14:57:00 -
[3]
i fly amarr most of the time and i have no issue whit the cap bonus... as amarr lasers have built in dmg bonus.. its ok.
lets say you remove the cap bonus, decrease cap useage on lasers on geddon... what bonus would u put there ?? damage?
that ship would instantly be the BEST BS out there. it can allready do over 1000 dps whit very nice skills (even whit my sucky skills i get over 1000 dps
thats what i think of this idea... i dont want amarr ships to be overpowerd (because that change would make them so)... if something turns into over powerd.... it will get nerfed so hard its useless turd.
should know from the first amarr nerf...... ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Weryl
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Posted - 2008.06.08 15:08:00 -
[4]
I've only recently been giving much thought to it, but I was looking for general utility bonuses.
Examples: Drone bay size / Cargo bay space / Gun Range / Web range /
That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Just general utility kinds of things.
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Waxau
Unus - Vir Exercitus
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Posted - 2008.06.08 15:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Weryl I've only recently been giving much thought to it, but I was looking for general utility bonuses.
Examples: Drone bay size / Cargo bay space / Gun Range / Web range /
That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Just general utility kinds of things.
Range would be the only decent/non-overpowered bonus. Even if lowering the cap penalities and usage didnt make them overpowered :P
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Weryl
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Posted - 2008.06.08 15:13:00 -
[6]
Here's an interesting idea also ... specifically for the Augoror and Navy Aug
-10% per level for repair systems ... IE Armor reps and remote reps
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.08 15:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Weryl I've only recently been giving much thought to it, but I was looking for general utility bonuses.
Examples: Drone bay size / Cargo bay space / Gun Range / Web range /
That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Just general utility kinds of things.
drone bay size would be rather useless as most amarr ships (except the pilgrim/curse/arbitrator) arent greared toward drones.
cargo space is for industrials :)
range bonus.... dunno.. amarr guns are allready mid range ships... that would make lot of them too high range for close combat :P but not a bad idea
web range is speciality of minni recons... like nos/neut bonuses amarr recons. tho blood raiders get them both :P
tracking bonus would be one good thing.
---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Weryl
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Posted - 2008.06.08 15:30:00 -
[8]
I never realized it would be so difficult to come with ideas for the different ships. Tracking speed could be interesting on some of the ships, armor rep ammount or reduced power for reps could be interesting also.
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Keta Min
LEGI0N F.E.A.R Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.08 16:24:00 -
[9]
how about no? if you wan't to balance amarr ships, ask for pilgrim changes. |
Terianna Eri
Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.06.08 16:32:00 -
[10]
Range bonuses on lasers are always pretty awesome.
More range on pulse lasers often lets you hit from out of web range with excellent damage (10+km MF range on Heavy Pulse, 20km range on Megapulse)
Tracking would make them track, well, as well as blasters or autocannons (things they are not designed to do)
Web range bonus = lol cargohold = actually rather useful (more cap boosters yay) but doesn't make much sense Drone bay = gallente bonus, not particularly useful anyway
TBH here is what I would like to see
1) reduce laser cap usage by 40% 2) replace cap use bonus by 5% capacitor capacity per level __________________________________
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Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2008.06.08 16:36:00 -
[11]
I recently switched from minnie to amarr and was quite shocked to find the number of cap modules required to just fire my guns constantly, but maybe I was just spoiled flying ships with cap-less weapons.
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.08 16:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Weryl I've only recently been giving much thought to it, but I was looking for general utility bonuses.
Examples: Drone bay size / Cargo bay space / Gun Range / Web range /
That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Just general utility kinds of things.
Range would be the only decent/non-overpowered bonus. Even if lowering the cap penalities and usage didnt make them overpowered :P
Range would be terribly overpowered as happy as i would be to see 40-50km pulse Omens/Harbingers
It would be better to reduce part of the ships armor or structure and then give them an armor/structure/resist bonus to compensate.
I.E. The Omen has 1563 base armor. The 10% cap/use level is near debilitating for lower skilled pilots. But if you reduce the armor to 1175 and then add a 5% armor resistance bonus instead. The end result at Amarr Cruiser 5 is the same, 1563 effective armor, with a slight boost in effective armor when plated(which it will never use since you can't really fit a plate). And at Amarr Cruiser 1 its got a decent amount less hit points.
Or reduce tracking and then add a tracking bonus to compensate.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.06.08 17:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Brea Lafail I recently switched from minnie to amarr and was quite shocked to find the number of cap modules required to just fire my guns constantly, but maybe I was just spoiled flying ships with cap-less weapons.
You probably never trained the capacitor support skills, especially Controlled Bursts. Those make a world of difference.
---------------- [insert signature here] |
Weryl
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Posted - 2008.06.08 20:29:00 -
[14]
Hrm... I was trying to get some idea of what to change. To me , Amarr still seems like it's missing something. Not quite sure what it is though ... |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2008.06.08 21:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Brea Lafail I recently switched from minnie to amarr and was quite shocked to find the number of cap modules required to just fire my guns constantly, but maybe I was just spoiled flying ships with cap-less weapons.
You probably never trained the capacitor support skills, especially Controlled Bursts. Those make a world of difference.
I got all but one cap related skill to 4, and that one is at 3. I don't think it's fair to expect much more for sub-BS ships.
So, yeah, make it 15% cap reduction maybe?
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AstroPhobic
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Posted - 2008.06.08 21:59:00 -
[16]
Umm... no.
Amarr is almost, if not already, the "best" faction as it stands. Needless boosts are not needed.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2008.06.08 22:03:00 -
[17]
Change the 10% Cap Use to 10% Armor hp.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
Andraine
Coded Arms Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.08 22:48:00 -
[18]
nope amarr are finr with the cap bonues tbh.
I've just started trainig amarr on an alt, and i got told to get all the cap skills (including controled bursts) to lvl 5 ASAP.
Hmm do crystls ever run out how long to they last?
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Ereshkygal
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Posted - 2008.06.08 22:53:00 -
[19]
Tho this bonus ofc is a bit boring, i think it's okay. Honestly some caldari or gallente setups can run into more cap issues with their rails then amarr do with lasers. If you want to change it then maybe give us something semi useless, like a falloff bonus for instance, but amarr are good enough to not deserve a repair, resistance, damage or rate of fire bonus on top of already decent ships.
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Terianna Eri
Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.06.09 03:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Andraine nope amarr are finr with the cap bonues tbh.
I've just started trainig amarr on an alt, and i got told to get all the cap skills (including controled bursts) to lvl 5 ASAP.
Hmm do crystls ever run out how long to they last?
I have 5/5 cap skills, Amarr cruiser V, BC V, and controlled bursts IV, and I don't really run into cap problems very often.
Then again CB V is definitely on my "to-train-very-soon" list.
As for crystals:
Tech1 crystals last forever Tech2 crystals and faction crystals have a change of taking some damage with each shot - afaik t2 crystals get something like 4000 shots (roughly) and faction crystals get about 10000 shots before burning out.
(Amarr faction ammo is also about as cost-effective as other races' t1 ammo, so I use navy MF a lot even on my mission boats). __________________________________
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Jaketh Ivanes
Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.06.09 07:54:00 -
[21]
1 small problem (and the reason for the increased cap consumption and ship bonus) is that laser becomes very viable weapons on other ships with almost no drawback. If all projectile weapons had 25% increased RoF (which is the most common bonus on minnie ships, iirc) then you could remove that bonus from the minnie ships (and add a speed bonus), but it would make projectile very powerfull on Amarr ships also. Race weapons should only be really useful on that race ships and pretty useless on any other race ship.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.09 08:53:00 -
[22]
i recall ppl using lasers allmost on any ship that could fit them before the nerf... so i understand the problem whit that :D
i have both cap skills at lvl 5 but controlled burst 4 (havent done it to 5 as i use hybrids and projectiles aswell
i dont really have problems whit cap on any amarr ship i have. whit amarr cruiser 5 and BC 5.... all ships perform great.
think my rail astarte eats more cap than most amarr ships :P ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Deschenus Maximus
Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes but it would make projectile very powerfull on Amarr ships also.
Considering that the most popular Apoc fit used ACs before they changed the cap bonus to the optimal range one, and ACs continue to be used on Punisher/Maller/Prophecy, I don't see a problem with it.
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Race weapons should only be really useful on that race ships and pretty useless on any other race ship.
The answer is quite simple: if CCP doesn't want use to use other race's weapons on our ships, they can simply restrict the code so that it is impossible to do so at all.
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Taco Raptorian
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Riho i recall ppl using lasers allmost on any ship that could fit them before the nerf... so i understand the problem whit that :D
Why was that a problem? Moar lazors is good! Go lazorspewpewpewpewpewpew!!11
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Trigos Trilobi
X-Fire
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:52:00 -
[25]
The way I see it, the capacitor use bonus is there sort of to keep lasers amarr preferred weapon. Replace the bonus and reduce laser cap use in general via 50% would be same as replacing the rof bonus on minnie ships and reducing the rof on projectiles by 25%. As for the many of the suggestions above, they're ridiculously overpowered.
Compare doing above (removing cap use and giving new bonus vs reducing rof and giving new bonus), add optimal vs add falloff in case of minmatars. Sure I'd like vaga falloff on every minny boat, and i'm sure amarr players would like zealotish range for everyboat, but it's laughable to claim that it's anything but overpowered in most cases, especially since not that many amarr ships are 'broken' at the moment.
Tracking bonus, hmmh, lasers already have ok dps and longest range, give them enough tracking to compete with the shorter range guns and you've just ruined good part of the racial flavor that makes the combat somewhat interesting. Ie, who gets to utilize their strong points better against the opponent (amarr needs superior range to do enough dps against minmatar before he closes and gets to utilize his superior tracking, minmatar needs to keep range to win over blaster boat, gallente needs to get up close and personal vs everything to make use of the superior dps).
So, why fix it, if it isn't broke. I know the cap use bonus isn't the sexiest of bonuses, but neither is rof bonus in reality if it's on every ship just to make the ship able to compete in dps. Same **** in different package.
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