| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
   |
Posted - 2008.06.13 02:50:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Lenus Daragio
The only downside it has to PvP is that belt ratters who are paying attention can get out of harms way.
Oh no, you might have to shoot something capable of fighting back!
That's not true at all, I can't count the number of times that we docked up because local had too many reds in it.
To me its a cheat, I would rather go head to head in fleet battles not knowing that there are 30+ more that we don't know about waiting for us to field our capital fleet. As is we know that there are 120 in local and in the surrounding areas when we can field 100 in active fleet.
THAT TAKES THE FUN OUT OF THE GAME
Local and Covert cloaking Idea |
Chiefs Fan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.06.14 13:01:00 -
[32]
why should you get a free jump on ratters and miners that are doing pve and are monitoring local like they should?
your "idea" is a brain-dead way for ANY small stealth/tackle gang to gank with impunity.
it will never happen.
|
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
|
Posted - 2008.06.17 08:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Chiefs Fan
why should you get a free jump on ratters and miners that are doing pve and are monitoring local like they should?
your "idea" is a brain-dead way for ANY small stealth/tackle gang to gank with impunity.
it will never happen.
Because 0.0 is not carebear land and shouldn't have complete security.
0.0 is safer than high sec <-- THAT IS WRONG,
0.0 shouldn't be more secure than high sec but it is. CCP Dev need to do something because as is, this shouldn't be happening as stated from the developers themselves; eve is a cruel dark world.
Local and Covert cloaking Idea |
Morgenrei
Native Freshfood
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 20:06:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Morgenrei on 18/06/2008 20:08:07
As if "safe ratting" is the the measure of gameplay....
Great Idea.
It would also be great for exploration.
|
Empyre
Domestic Reform
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 21:30:00 -
[35]
how about instead we change it so cloaks that you can warp while utilizing cause damage over time. if you stay cloaked too long, you start taking armor damage, hull damage and then boom. would cure afk cloakers.
i could also be cool with them taking enough cap that they can't be on 24/7.
You're doing it wrong. |
Marcus Gideon
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 22:44:00 -
[36]
This thread was made ages ago, to try and cure the AFK Cloak issue.
Cloaks shouldn't cause damage, that's ********. A Cloak reduces energy emissions, and masks the ship. Nothing in that says "Cloaks try and break you". And before anyone repeats the idea, Cloaks shouldn't eat Cap either. The fact that ALL your modules are offline shows that power has already been rerouted to the Cloak. To further require Cap would add insult to injury, as well as increase the energy emissions the Cloak is working to cover up anyways.
What would be a very simple fix for the Local as Intel problem, is to make Local a delayed channel. As it is, the roster and such for who is in Local is instantly updated as soon as someone enters the system. But some of the other chat rooms can be set to only display people who have spoken recently. Thus, if someone wants to observe silently, you'll never know about them. Kinda like... spies really work.
|
Malen Nenokal
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 19:45:00 -
[37]
I rat in 0.0 in a Vexor, and very effectively. This would kill that for me. Although I think it would be better if it removed you from local when you activate the module. This would fit in with the design philosophy of why the stealth bomber doesn't have a cov ops cloak (so you can detect the enemy's capability for a moment before they disappear). If you aren't paying attention to local for longer than 3-4 seconds, you may have missed that cov ops ship that just jumped in. =)
-
|
Empyre
Domestic Reform
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 20:12:00 -
[38]
i think cloaks should eat cap AND do damage. 
delayed local is a baaaaaaad idea. cloakers already have an extreme advantage, not even including the ability to cloak in a safe and go afk, panicking the local population while they brag to mom and dad at the dinner table how they're wreaking havoc upon a whole population of system inhabitants without even being at the con.
i bet they even save the chat logs and read them while they stat-pad in their favorite fps.
You're doing it wrong. |
Marcus Gideon
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 20:29:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Empyre
i think cloaks should eat cap AND do damage.
delayed local is a baaaaaaad idea. cloakers already have an extreme advantage, not even including the ability to cloak in a safe and go afk, panicking the local population while they brag to mom and dad at the dinner table how they're wreaking havoc upon a whole population of system inhabitants without even being at the con.
i bet they even save the chat logs and read them while they stat-pad in their favorite fps.
Which is why... if all my suggestions were implemented, that wouldn't be a problem anymore.
If Local were delayed instead of immediate, there wouldn't be any mass hysteria. People wouldn't flip out thinking "someone" is out there somewhere, stalking them.
If a close range Detector module were available, you could hunt down Cloaks in your immediate vicinity (same grid).
If a Decloak bubble generator were available, you could protect the area around your POS or Mining operations or whatever else, from being spied upon.
On the off chance that someone runs to a distant Safe Spot, and cloaks, then so be it.
BTW... Cloaks eatting Cap, and doing damage, is the dictionary definition of a Bad Idea.
|
Nul Settys
UnderDog Industries
Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 21:01:00 -
[40]
How would it even be possible to mine in 0.0 if this change were made?
|
Marcus Gideon
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 23:03:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 19/06/2008 23:03:10
As far as my approach goes... nothing would be impacted by making Local delayed. It would just mean the people you see in the Chat Room, are people who have spoken recently. And people who haven't spoken, would remain unknown. This would solve the "Local as Intel" problem.
As far as Cloaks go, they are powered just like any other module. It just happens that their power supply comes in the form of powering down every other module onboard for the duration of their operation. If Cloaks start drawing from Cap instead, then I'd demand the ability to fight while cloaked. I'm paying for it at that point, why couldn't I balance the Cap just like a do a permatank and guns.
As for staying cloaked forever, that's where my idea for an AFK timer came in. If a player cloaks in a Safe Spot, and then walks away from the computer all day long, the client should disconnect them.
Eve is the only MMO I've seen that doesn't automatically d/c an AFK player, and there's no justification why. Nothing in game requires your constant presence, without player interaction as well. And player interaction would naturally mean you're not "Away From Keyboard".
If a player is actually interacting in some fashion, either by ship maneuvers, module usage, or chat interaction, then the timer wouldn't apply. But a player who is completely unresponsive for, say 15 minutes, would be AFK flagged. This could be visible in Chat Rooms, so Corpmates know you're not actually there to talk to. If the flag persists for an hour, then you are d/c.
Haulers may whine, but what the hell are you doing Autopiloting for over an hour? That just screams "gank me plz".
|
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 23:36:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Malen Nenokal
Although I think it would be better if it removed you from local when you activate the module. This would fit in with the design philosophy of why the stealth bomber doesn't have a cov ops cloak (so you can detect the enemy's capability for a moment before they disappear). If you aren't paying attention to local for longer than 3-4 seconds, you may have missed that cov ops ship that just jumped in. =)
That's the way I see it, Covert ops can't sneak up on anyone currently as everyone in local knows you are there. I don't want local thrown out completely but as is there isn't a game out there that lets EVERYONE know who you are and where you are at.
I really don't care what they do with local, whether its delay the chat or let covert ops hide from local but something has to be done. As is scripts are too easy to write to allow macroers to abuse this system.
CCP please do something, and til that time, players of Eve please keep this thread alive as CCP needs to do something about this issue even if its just to stop macroing ratters.
Local and Covert cloaking Idea |
Chiefs Fan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.06.20 07:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit
Originally by: Chiefs Fan
why should you get a free jump on ratters and miners that are doing pve and are monitoring local like they should?
your "idea" is a brain-dead way for ANY small stealth/tackle gang to gank with impunity.
it will never happen.
Because 0.0 is not carebear land and shouldn't have complete security.
0.0 is safer than high sec <-- THAT IS WRONG,
0.0 shouldn't be more secure than high sec but it is. CCP Dev need to do something because as is, this shouldn't be happening as stated from the developers themselves; eve is a cruel dark world.
you just dont get it. if you go to someone elses 0.0 space and they see you in local, yea they swap ships real quick to defend their space. why should you get free kills on miners and ratters that arent fit for pvp? is the fact that they can go swap to their pvp ship too much for you to handle? cry more. ccp isnt gonna give stealth impunity as if they couldnt see it turn flavor of the month screw up the way the economy works. nobody would be bringing in ores or money. everyone would be a stealth pirate. your corp/alliance wouldnt be able to afford to replace your ships when they go pop... ccp isnt stupid.
like i said before this is a no brainer. just cause you cant handle when they go to safespot and call for homeland defense. if you wanna pvp try doing it against other hacs, etc instead of miners and ratters that arent fit for pvp.
and why are you quoting me and talking about 0.0 being safer than empire? are you demented?
|
Nachshon
17th Minmatar Tactical Wing
|
Posted - 2008.06.20 18:05:00 -
[44]
I've suggested before that local become optional. Players can disappear from the local channel - but they can't see it either.
____________________________________
Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
The True Meaning of Freedom
My v |
Empyre
Domestic Reform
|
Posted - 2008.06.20 20:03:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Empyre on 20/06/2008 20:04:03
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Which is why... if all my suggestions were implemented, that wouldn't be a problem anymore.
If Local were delayed instead of immediate, there wouldn't be any mass hysteria. People wouldn't flip out thinking "someone" is out there somewhere, stalking them.
If a close range Detector module were available, you could hunt down Cloaks in your immediate vicinity (same grid).
If a Decloak bubble generator were available, you could protect the area around your POS or Mining operations or whatever else, from being spied upon.
On the off chance that someone runs to a distant Safe Spot, and cloaks, then so be it.
BTW... Cloaks eatting Cap, and doing damage, is the dictionary definition of a Bad Idea.
right. so there is no panic until the first time the recon uncloaks and uses the rat npcs to assist them in taking down that faction fitted ratting ship. your solution does not fix the problem.
ps. fine, you win on the cap and damage thing. cloaks instead should roll random and take a chance of self destructing the ship immediately if the roll falls within a certain range. oh, and they should also cause you to eject randomly and lose track of where your ship is.
You're doing it wrong. |
Marcus Gideon
|
Posted - 2008.06.20 20:37:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Empyre
right. so there is no panic until the first time the recon uncloaks and uses the rat npcs to assist them in taking down that faction fitted ratting ship. your solution does not fix the problem.
ps. fine, you win on the cap and damage thing. cloaks instead should roll random and take a chance of self destructing the ship immediately if the roll falls within a certain range. oh, and they should also cause you to eject randomly and lose track of where your ship is.
Wha? No panic until they discover there's a spy in their midst? How novel a concept! Everyone complains about "Care Bears" wanting an easy solution to everything, and here you are whining because someone could actually sneak up on you successfully.
I'm not terribly sure how you think a Cloak also allows you to control the NPCs. Considering NPCs are programmed to attack players in general, if they decloak in the middle of a fight, they're just as likely to become another target. This would actually be saving you a bit, since they're distracting YOUR targets.
I'm not even going to bother with the rest. You're feeling butt hurt because someone with a Cloak knocked you down on the playground and stole your lunch money. 
|
Chiefs Fan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.06.21 03:46:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Nachshon
I've suggested before that local become optional. Players can disappear from the local channel - but they can't see it either.
and i suppose you'd just allow them to turn it back on to take a peek at the numbers whenever it serves them?
|
Kil'Roy
The Rat Patrol
|
Posted - 2008.06.21 07:43:00 -
[48]
I say, that Local should be removed for all.
For CovOps...
- You can never tell how accurate your scans are.
- Scan times should be greatly increased .
- Scan accuracies should be greatly reduced.
- Scans never drop you at zero on target, usually 50-150km+ away.
- Scans will always get you, at the very least, just on Grid.
- Remove ability to warp to any object in space.
- Remove ability to add BM to any object in space.
- You have to physically be at spot for BM
- Move the best Rats to Exporation sites scanable by On-Board Scanner.
Allow that a "Perfect" CovOps pilot has about a 20% chance to get a "Ratter" who only spends a few min in any given locaton considering the range at which an average scan gets you on target at warp in and how long it takes a nano CovOps to move to the target.
So, never Rat at belts, if you don't want to get popped by Gankers, and move around alot. Of course, they could just ambush you if you come back to a previously unfinished Spawn.
Make it so a good ratter who follows certain procedures can operate in general safety, but if he relaxes much when someone is trying to scan him down, he has a high chance of being toast.
Reward those who pay attention to what they are doing, but make it relatively easy to get someone who is just haning out and rattin, hardly paying attention to what they are doing. Don't make it easy for them to see someone is there who may be looking for them. The Ratters need to assume someone always is, if they don't want to loose their ship.
Don't make it easy for the Ratters or Gankers.
Remove Local and change the way Scanning works.
|
Althea Vivacia
|
Posted - 2008.06.21 12:13:00 -
[49]
Why not just make a cov ops provide counter intelligance instead of making it dissapear from local alltogether , wouldn't it be funny as hell if a cov ops cloak would make you appear as a random other player in the system.
Example :
Althea flies in to system , warps to a safe spot , hits cloak , now in local i appear as ie. chribba.
Should not be allowed to talk in local under that name offcourse.
|
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
|
Posted - 2008.06.21 12:36:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Althea Vivacia
Why not just make a cov ops provide counter intelligance instead of making it dissapear from local alltogether , wouldn't it be funny as hell if a cov ops cloak would make you appear as a random other player in the system.
Example :
Althea flies in to system , warps to a safe spot , hits cloak , now in local i appear as ie. chribba.
Should not be allowed to talk in local under that name offcourse.
I can see hoards of pilots cloak/uncloak/cloak to get my name, altho would be funny to see a system with 20 Chribba's logged in
Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar? |
|
Marcus Gideon
|
Posted - 2008.06.21 13:50:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Althea Vivacia
Why not just make a cov ops provide counter intelligance instead of making it dissapear from local alltogether , wouldn't it be funny as hell if a cov ops cloak would make you appear as a random other player in the system.
Example :
Althea flies in to system , warps to a safe spot , hits cloak , now in local i appear as ie. chribba.
Should not be allowed to talk in local under that name offcourse.
Because this isn't how Cloaks work in the first place.
They don't mask your ship and make it look like something else. They make you invisible. Hence why people suggest that Cloaks should remove you from Local, which would also render you invisible.
I still think the easiest solution is delay Local. If spies aren't chatty, then they aren't found out.
|
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
|
Posted - 2008.06.23 03:38:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Because this isn't how Cloaks work in the first place.
They don't mask your ship and make it look like something else. They make you invisible. Hence why people suggest that Cloaks should remove you from Local, which would also render you invisible.
I still think the easiest solution is delay Local. If spies aren't chatty, then they aren't found out
I would back that, but I think most of us agree that as is Local is a problem?
Delay local would help the ratters the cloakers would have to scan/check the belts manually. Taking up way too much time and most organised groups have a cloaked scout on the gate so watch for actively when they are in a one-gate system.
As is now, gangs just hop in local and check for pilots then start the scan. CCP needs to remove this as it takes the whole fun part of pvp away, the surprise.
Local and Covert cloaking Idea |
TharOkha
|
Posted - 2008.08.17 10:33:00 -
[53]
well i agree that covert ops shouldnt appear in local, but also i understand that that it will kill ratting. and what about this?:
-when using covertops frigate you will not appear in local (unless you write something to local )
-create new probe "proximity sensor" (as seen in homeworld game) it should be launched by probe launchers and have range 20-25km and duration 15-30 minutes (then they expode). You can deploy these proximity sensors at the gates, so when you will ratting and someone enters the system (and nobody will appears in local) it will warn you that covert ops frig just entered the system, but you will dont know the name of pilot.
|
Schani Kratnorr
x13
|
Posted - 2008.08.17 10:48:00 -
[54]
I have said it 100 times before and I will say it once more.
There is nothing wrong with cloaking. If cloaking is changed in any way, people will just go back to using armies of alts in noob corps. As a veteran player, trust me when I say that you dont want that either - not with 200K subscribers...
If people still dont understand cloaking, they need to play the game more.
Anyone who does not fight other players should also consider how limited their perspective is.
Cloaking as it is now, is the only real anti-blob weapon in existance. With just a single shit, it is possible to counter the largest fleet. Simply scout them and steer clear.
Cloaking is also being used to go afk in hostile systems. That might be a problem for some, but if they are afk and cloaked they cannot hurt you can they?
|
WillageGirl
Advanced Tactics and Maneuvers
|
Posted - 2008.08.17 11:12:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lenus Daragio
Unfortunately, I don't really see the point in arguing about local.
The only downside it has to PvP is that belt ratters who are paying attention can get out of harms way.
Oh no, you might have to shoot something capable of fighting back!
There are far more upsides to local. It's also become part of the game, I'd assume just not to mess with it. Even tho the devs never intended to have Local become an intel channel, I don't think eve would be nearly as successful without it. You have the ability to taunt your enemies, scream bloody murder, call for help, scam people in Jita, and all sorts of other ridiculous things that you can't do in other games.
Hardly that simple m8.
Ever seen a blob going after cruiser / frig gang?
Only reason they can do it with bigass battleships is because they KNOW where they are just by looking at local. all it takes for large fleet is to have one(1) pilot in each surrounding system and fleet is in control of the area. (a HUGE disadvantage to small gangs)
Now only point I have really seen made against local changes is that ratters and miners in 0.0 would suffer. On the other words 0.0 alliances would have to start defending their own space at all times instead of just running around the map with Blobs to counter other blobs that are ready just because someone was watching local few jumps away. (See what I did there ... stealth BloB nerf and scirmish boost..)
Personally Im more into removing local entirely and remaking onboard scanners. Maybe add some wariety between ships in the process (ie. recons and cov ops get longer range scanners to do their job effectively and so on.. just a suggestion)
Fighting for Our right to Cloak since 2004 |
Sarin Adler
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.08.17 14:00:00 -
[56]
Hint: Implement this and bost 0.0 ratting. We all win.
|
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.08.17 14:22:00 -
[57]
I think the idea of cloaked ships - those designed for that purpose (i.e cov ops frigates, force recons, stealth bombers & black ops) should be removed from local.
However,
I think they should also be restricted in doing so for long periods by applying a 'fuel consumption' or similar mechanic. Rather like diesel powered U-Boats during WWI and WWII which had to surface at some stage to replenish their oxygen reserves (prior to the introduction of the snorkle device).
One option might be that covert cloaks use limited amounts of cap, but whilst cloaked cap does not replenish itself. Once the cloaked ship reaches 0 cap the cloaking module starts to 'overheat' forcing the cloaked ship to 'resurface' to recover cap.
Sounds more interesting to me at any rate.
C.
Originally by: Tarminic
Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
|
Suunto Viper
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 14:24:00 -
[58]
I have an Idea!
In order for this to work, there needs to a mod and skill for scanning that allows you to scan out cloaked ships.
After cloaking you dissapear from local.
The ship with the cloaking devise does not appear on local unless they talk in local.
The scan module allows you to see if there is a cloaked ship in the system but it has an accuracy fall off.
It allows you to pinpoint the the location of a cloaked ship. The accuracy of the scanner falls off exponentially Depending on how far away you are from the cloaked ship up to 500km The accuracy can be improved with the training of the skill. You can warp to and approach the position your scanner picks up but you might be anywhere from 5 to 500km away. once at 500km away from the ship you can repeat the process to narrow down the area your in and eventually pinpoint the exact location of the cov ops ship.If you are within 10km of a cloaked ship your scanner will be able to tell what ship it is and who the pilot isif your within 10km you scanner will uncloak the Cov ops ship.
My maths doesnt quite work out but I think you get the idea. you scan it out, you warp to posistion, you scan again and it norrows the search area, and on and on. till you get to 10k and uncloak them. the better skill you have the quciker you can find them.
This will allows Cov Ops ships the ability to do their thing and scout systems out, but also allows other players to find potential enemy cov ops.
I think it would prove quite fun scouting out cov ops ships . seeing as you could get a gang up with anti cov Ops scanners on and go hunting. will make cov ops more interesting and stop people from being Cloaked and AFK as you'll get scanned out eventually even if it will take quite a while to do it.
|
Suunto Viper
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 15:21:00 -
[59]
|
Zathrus
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 15:22:00 -
[60]
I like the idea of removing Cov Ops / Black Ops / Stealth Bombers / Recon from local.
If you rat or mine in a 0.0 system you can fly one too then you can rat / mine in piece as no one will know you are there unless they fly to the belt you are in.
Also make it so only ships designed for Cloaks can fit cloaks/
If you are naping and get blasted too bad Go back to high section.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |