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The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.09 17:05:00 - [1] Remove insurance payout if u became killed by Concord... This should stop multiple BS ganksquads with low T1 fitting for the destruction of Frighters
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.06.09 17:15:00 - [2] frighters inbound this has been discussed to death and CCP hasn't acted on it ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.09 17:51:00 - [3] My way is quiet better and i guess much more will say the same
FireLiar	Posted - 2008.06.09 18:34:00 - [4] why not just have concord insta pop threats in empire like kamakazie attacks?? would be alot quicker and efficient. instead of boosting other NPC ships damage, boost the hell out of concord....
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.09 18:45:00 - [5] Originally by: FireLiar why not just have concord insta pop threats in empire like kamakazie attacks?? would be alot quicker and efficient. instead of boosting other NPC ships damage, boost the hell out of concord.... or that way but the chance is still given by the drones u let engange teh frighter. Let money hurt the pirates by an "no payout" of the ensurance when become killed by concord. Thas my saying and i d like to read what CCP DEVs say tho this.. not an GM
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.09 19:37:00 - [6] Originally by: FireLiar why not just have concord insta pop threats in empire like kamakazie attacks?? would be alot quicker and efficient. instead of boosting other NPC ships damage, boost the hell out of concord.... Because in eve you are allowed to gank people in high sec its not against the rules... To the op, This is a very good idea it still alows for ganking of targets of opertunity but at a greater cost to the ganker... if i a flying around in a ship loaded to hell with valuables and someone decides to gank me well thats partly my fault, and they should not get insta poped for attempting it. But yes getting ganked by someone and them loosing there ship but getting an insurace payout that covers it that is rather stupid. How stupid are the insurance companies in eve? really... i mean you buy a ship to perpously get it destroyed and then you get another one and the insurance company doest ask any questions or charge you any more for insuring your 2nd, 3rd... or even 50th ship.. they just so "oh concord poped him again... boys will be boys lets give him his insurance money" Anyways I like the idea, sure some pirates will be made but others will see that this removes the none hardcore pirate meanig there is more juice targets with more loot floating around for the real pirates to gank.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.06.09 19:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Erotic Irony frighters inbound this has been discussed to death and CCP hasn't acted on it Well, just because they have not said anything does not mean they will not do anything about it, even if it takes them another year or three.... OP: However, yes, the Suicide ganking has been discussed to death already. If you lost something, it was probably your fault for missing the obvious things in EVE, like protecting your ass and taking small precautions. On the other hand, removal of Insurance is a good idea, and no one I spoke with thus far disagrees with it. So, ok, you mentioned it again, instead of finding one of the 300 threads thats already been discussing it.
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.09 19:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Resamo Originally by: FireLiar why not just have concord insta pop threats in empire like kamakazie attacks?? would be alot quicker and efficient. instead of boosting other NPC ships damage, boost the hell out of concord.... Because in eve you are allowed to gank people in high sec its not against the rules... To the op, This is a very good idea it still alows for ganking of targets of opertunity but at a greater cost to the ganker... if i a flying around in a ship loaded to hell with valuables and someone decides to gank me well thats partly my fault, and they should not get insta poped for attempting it. But yes getting ganked by someone and them loosing there ship but getting an insurace payout that covers it that is rather stupid. How stupid are the insurance companies in eve? really... i mean you buy a ship to perpously get it destroyed and then you get another one and the insurance company doest ask any questions or charge you any more for insuring your 2nd, 3rd... or even 50th ship.. they just so "oh concord poped him again... boys will be boys lets give him his insurance money" Anyways I like the idea, sure some pirates will be made but others will see that this removes the none hardcore pirate meanig there is more juice targets with more loot floating around for the real pirates to gank. I almost agree with you but... if u find it ok to gank other ppl then give em the ability to defend them self with atleast Armor or Shild tank.. Otherwise your idea is very weak
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.09 19:59:00 - [9] Originally by: The Rincewind I almost agree with you but... if u find it ok to gank other ppl then give em the ability to defend them self with atleast Armor or Shild tank.. Otherwise your idea is very weak I was agreeing with you... not sure how you can agree with me agreeing with you. Also was just fleshing the idea out so that it made sense on both sides. Dont really have my own idea there was just takeing yours did not change it at all, not sure how it can be weak.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Resamo How stupid are the insurance companies in eve? really... i mean you buy a ship to perpously get it destroyed and then you get another one and the insurance company doest ask any questions or charge you any more for insuring your 2nd, 3rd... or even 50th ship.. they just so "oh concord poped him again... boys will be boys lets give him his insurance money" I would actually be curious to see the numbers on insurance. SSC must be running at huge loss... Insurance companies generally collect premiums and invest that money. EvE has inflaction and economic growth so it should be possible to calculate the pool of ISK SSC could have and what interst they might be getting off of it.
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:07:00 - [11] Edited by: The Rincewind on 09/06/2008 20:09:28 Edited by: The Rincewind on 09/06/2008 20:08:30 Originally by: Resamo Originally by: The Rincewind I almost agree with you but... if u find it ok to gank other ppl then give em the ability to defend them self with atleast Armor or Shild tank.. Otherwise your idea is very weak I was agreeing with you... not sure how you can agree with me agreeing with you. Also was just fleshing the idea out so that it made sense on both sides. Dont really have my own idea there was just takeing yours did not change it at all, not sure how it can be weak. its weak by the way, that 30 BS with drones kann kill a small capital ship by 100 % even if the ships are all jammed. if u ve seen the videos the pirates made, then u can see that the BSs were all jammed and stoped shooting , but not the drones. They kept attaking the Frighter. Skills are the base which makes the differens of good and worse player... sure taktics as well but that is t what i want to talk about. An Frighter should have at least a chance to deffend of such an kamikaze attack.
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:10:00 - [12] Originally by: The Rincewind Originally by: Resamo Originally by: The Rincewind I almost agree with you but... if u find it ok to gank other ppl then give em the ability to defend them self with atleast Armor or Shild tank.. Otherwise your idea is very weak I was agreeing with you... not sure how you can agree with me agreeing with you. Also was just fleshing the idea out so that it made sense on both sides. Dont really have my own idea there was just takeing yours did not change it at all, not sure how it can be weak. its weak by teh way to day, that 30 BS with drones kann kill a small capital ship by 100 %. if u ve seen the videos the pirates made, then u can see that the BSs were all chammed and stoped shooting , but not the drones. They kept attaking the Frighter. Skills are the base which makes the differens of good and worse player... sure taktics as well but that is t what i want to tal about. An Frighter should have at least a chance to deffend of such an kamikaze attack. All you said was remove insurace payouts to people killed by concord and i agreed with you... not sure where this skills to defend stuff came from. Maybe i want it removed for a differnt reason but at the end of the day its the same thing.
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: Resamo How stupid are the insurance companies in eve? really... i mean you buy a ship to perpously get it destroyed and then you get another one and the insurance company doest ask any questions or charge you any more for insuring your 2nd, 3rd... or even 50th ship.. they just so "oh concord poped him again... boys will be boys lets give him his insurance money" I would actually be curious to see the numbers on insurance. SSC must be running at huge loss... Insurance companies generally collect premiums and invest that money. EvE has inflaction and economic growth so it should be possible to calculate the pool of ISK SSC could have and what interst they might be getting off of it. You are right it would be very interesting to see what kind of loss SSC is running at... or what kind of return they need on there investments to cover there outputs. Still even if they could make enough to still turn a profit why would they keep insuring people they know are going to get there ship blown up by concord? it just makes no sense really.
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:12:00 - [14] Resamo said it s ok to gank frighters in empire and i just answered him, that if it would be ok then give ships deffend capability
Xaen Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:14:00 - [15] Originally by: The Rincewind Edited by: The Rincewind on 09/06/2008 19:30:00 Originally by: FireLiar why not just have concord insta pop threats in empire like kamakazie attacks?? would be alot quicker and efficient. instead of boosting other NPC ships damage, boost the hell out of concord.... or that way but the chance is still given by the drones u let engange the frighter. Let money hurt the pirates by an "no payout" of the ensurance when become killed by concord. Thats my saying and i d like to read what CCP DEVs say tho this.. not an GM This wouldn't make the difference you hope it would. For the sake of easy math say you're hauling 5 billion in loot. With the game as is, five battleships gank you and get 4.900 billion in profit after insurance payouts. Then, if your suggestion is implemented (it won't be, more on that later) they get a profit of 4.4 billion. Translation: THEY'RE STILL GOING TO GANK YOU. Now, the reason they're not going to do it is newbies getting concorded before they know better end up with nothing and quit the game. Multiple CCP employees have said on several occasions that this is why there is still an insurance payout. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: The Rincewind Edited by: The Rincewind on 09/06/2008 19:30:00 Originally by: FireLiar why not just have concord insta pop threats in empire like kamakazie attacks?? would be alot quicker and efficient. instead of boosting other NPC ships damage, boost the hell out of concord.... or that way but the chance is still given by the drones u let engange the frighter. Let money hurt the pirates by an "no payout" of the ensurance when become killed by concord. Thats my saying and i d like to read what CCP DEVs say tho this.. not an GM This wouldn't make the difference you hope it would. For the sake of easy math say you're hauling 5 billion in loot. With the game as is, five battleships gank you and get 4.900 billion in profit after insurance payouts. Then, if your suggestion is implemented (it won't be, more on that later) they get a profit of 4.4 billion. Translation: THEY'RE STILL GOING TO GANK YOU. Now, the reason they're not going to do it is newbies getting concorded before they know better end up with nothing and quit the game. Multiple CCP employees have said on several occasions that this is why there is still an insurance payout. Then the time has come to remove payouts to ppl wich were killed by concord.
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: The Rincewind Edited by: The Rincewind on 09/06/2008 19:30:00 Originally by: FireLiar why not just have concord insta pop threats in empire like kamakazie attacks?? would be alot quicker and efficient. instead of boosting other NPC ships damage, boost the hell out of concord.... or that way but the chance is still given by the drones u let engange the frighter. Let money hurt the pirates by an "no payout" of the ensurance when become killed by concord. Thats my saying and i d like to read what CCP DEVs say tho this.. not an GM This wouldn't make the difference you hope it would. For the sake of easy math say you're hauling 5 billion in loot. With the game as is, five battleships gank you and get 4.900 billion in profit after insurance payouts. Then, if your suggestion is implemented (it won't be, more on that later) they get a profit of 4.4 billion. Translation: THEY'RE STILL GOING TO GANK YOU. Now, the reason they're not going to do it is newbies getting concorded before they know better end up with nothing and quit the game. Multiple CCP employees have said on several occasions that this is why there is still an insurance payout. Ya you are right it is not fair to noobs forgot about them. How about this if you get yourself worked by concord more then once within a one month time frame you get no insurace payout? And again to the op, yes its fair for people to gank a freighter.... and if there is no insurance payout it will cost them more. My sujestion to you if its a big problem is to run a scout ahead of your freighter.
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:31:00 - [18] To run 1 or 2 scouts isn t a problem but i say it one more time... Remove the insurance payout compleetly for ppl which were killed by concord ... no more to say. If pppl look for an jak-pot like it was said before 5 bil folume cargo then let ppl pay for it.
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar	Posted - 2008.06.09 23:02:00 - [19] Newbies sometimes shoot other newbies by accident in highsec and are being concorded. To avoid their misery, there should be an option for the target (the pilot that was hit) to report "no, its ok, that was an accident, my friend had mistaken remote armor repairer with autocannon" to concord (for example via any concord agent or via kill log in character panel). If done within a month, the concorded player should get insurance. This option would be disabled if he agroed multiple ships (could be used for abuse of above mechanics) or if the targeted ship actually died. Also, I think their should be option to choose insurance company and have slightly different terms depending on that. Pirate should be sentenced to use pirate faction insurance companies normaly :) Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.10 20:59:00 - [20] Edited by: The Rincewind on 10/06/2008 20:59:31 Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon Newbies sometimes shoot other newbies by accident in highsec and are being concorded. To avoid their misery, there should be an option for the target (the pilot that was hit) to report "no, its ok, that was an accident, my friend had mistaken remote armor repairer with autocannon" to concord (for example via any concord agent or via kill log in character panel). If done within a month, the concorded player should get insurance. This option would be disabled if he agroed multiple ships (could be used for abuse of above mechanics) or if the targeted ship actually died. Also, I think their should be option to choose insurance company and have slightly different terms depending on that. Pirate should be sentenced to use pirate faction insurance companies normaly :) please..... since when are newbies running in multi million fittings around??? and about the "sorry i missclicked on my autocannon" but was going to use remote armor.... for this u re in a Gang/Fleet, and if not, call it experience. Sorry but you speak about a frig-pilot and i was speaking infront of frighter. U really want to get a message "want allow possible hostile to deal some dmg on you" or what? And during the message isn t aczepted by yes or no .. can the BS fleet deal damage or not?
Draconus Lofwyr Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.06.11 19:27:00 - [21] Edited by: Draconus Lofwyr on 11/06/2008 19:31:57 well, if suicide ganking is a valid combat tactic, then why not let capitals back in empire. I can suicide DD in jita and make a ton. Its a valid tactic, since i will be getting reimbursed for my ship. Hey, and that would fix the jita lag too <g> CCP, either pick a side of the argument, or fix the damned problem. You cant have it both ways.
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.12 19:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Draconus Lofwyr Edited by: Draconus Lofwyr on 11/06/2008 19:31:57 well, if suicide ganking is a valid combat tactic, then why not let capitals back in empire. I can suicide DD in jita and make a ton. Its a valid tactic, since i will be getting reimbursed for my ship. Hey, and that would fix the jita lag too <g> CCP, either pick a side of the argument, or fix the damned problem. You cant have it both ways. excellent ..... booost Capitals
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.06.12 21:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Draconus Lofwyr Edited by: Draconus Lofwyr on 11/06/2008 19:31:57 well, if suicide ganking is a valid combat tactic, then why not let capitals back in empire. I can suicide DD in jita and make a ton. Its a valid tactic, since i will be getting reimbursed for my ship. Hey, and that would fix the jita lag too <g> CCP, either pick a side of the argument, or fix the damned problem. You cant have it both ways. Yes, because these things are exactly the same.
Lenus Daragio coracao ardente	Posted - 2008.06.12 23:36:00 - [24] The true problem is that Empire Ganking isn't very risky. The only fix I can think of is that Concord Aids those in distress by remote repping the ship. That is, they come in and give you shields and armor, but not hull. If the person can kill you before concord arrives, or regardless of if concord arrives, more power to them. I don't believe suicide ganks was ever intentional (or good for the game). Obviously, people will still do it, since if you have enough alpha, you can kill the target before concord arrives, which is what we want. We don't want to take away from this aspect of the game, we just want to balance it. And by the way, if a multiple BS squad decides to gank your freighter, then your freighter is probably going to die unless someone messes it up. Just need to add some uncertainty to the hunt.
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.13 09:50:00 - [25] Originally by: The Rincewind Remove insurance payout if u became killed by Concord... This should stop multiple BS ganksquads with low T1 fitting for the destruction of Frighters I agree. If you commit a crime with your ship, insurance shouldn't be paid out. It should be in the fine print of the insurance. I mean, after all: * If you repackage your ship you lose insurance! * If you loan your ship to someone else you lose in surance! * If you contract your ship you lose insurance! Why not lose insurance if you lost your ship committing a crime?
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.13 09:52:00 - [26] Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 13/06/2008 09:52:24 Originally by: Xaen THEY'RE STILL GOING TO GANK YOU. Hey, gankers are gankers. If there's a profit it in it, of course they're going to gank you. I just say, why would the insurance company pay them if they committed a crime?
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.13 16:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 13/06/2008 09:52:24 Originally by: Xaen THEY'RE STILL GOING TO GANK YOU. Hey, gankers are gankers. If there's a profit it in it, of course they're going to gank you. I just say, why would the insurance company pay them if they committed a crime? because ths actually doesn t work in reallife too? Isn t CCP explaining sh_it with "This bla bla don t work in reallife too so why should be bla bla..."! I like the idea that Concord could boost the pilot who is under attack by shield/armor transfer
Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.06.13 16:40:00 - [28] I say yes, remove insurance for concord ship loss. And I laugh at you because it wont change anything.
The Rincewind WALHALLA-ENTERPRISES Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.13 17:35:00 - [29] Originally by: Zirconium Blade I say yes, remove insurance for concord ship loss. And I laugh at you because it wont change anything. yea yea how ever..... get rid of the insurence payout for crime acting.

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