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Dyntheos
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 01:00:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Yo****o Sanders
Who are you to state she has no claim to the Throne? You are not a Holder, nor a member of the Theology Council, nor the Privy Council, nor one of the Heirs. It is not you who mandates who does and does not have a claim to the Imperial Throne.
God has gloriously returned Jamyl Sarum to the Amarr Empire, where she drove off the enemies of the Empire when all seemed lost. The four Heirs did nothing to stop them. The Navy was in disarray. Slaves were rioting on the ground.
Only Jamyl Sarum's presence turned the tide of battle into the hands of the Empire. Her return is a miracle. She did commit ritual suicide following the Succession Trials. Many witnesses were there to confirm it.
If it was a simple case of cloning, she would have not waited until now to reveal herself. No, this was an act of God Almighty to save the Empire and lead us from the dark times we have been subject to.
While you should use a less inflammatory tone, peasant, you do have a point: emperors are not crowned by popular acclaim in the Amarr empire. I can understand many loyal amarrians are filled with emotion at the moment and crying for a savior to lead them against our enemies, but adherence to tradition is what has held this empire together for millennia, and crowning her empress like this would set a dangerous precedent.
As Hardin said, when Jamyl participated in the Succession Trials she agreed to abide by its rules...at the moment I cannot think of a good reason why she is still alive û perhaps she can enlighten us.
An act of god? I have lived for too long to still believe in miracles...god only helps those who help themselves.
Very good timing though, to emerge just as a staggeringly incompetent navy has let imperial heartland come under attack and then miraculously save the day.
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Dyntheos
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 01:08:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
The succession rituals are clearly false and corrupt and should be rejected by all those that speak the true word of God
This is not the first nor last time HM Khanid II has been a fine guiding light and example and I am most pleased to see the Noble House Sarum has on this issue come to also realise the truth
House Sarum has not issued any statement declaring the rituals "false and corrupt" as of yet.
The only thing Khanid "II" is an example for is how to be a cowardly and backstabbing traitor.
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Yoshito Sanders
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.11 01:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dyntheos
An act of god? I have lived for too long to still believe in miracles...god only helps those who help themselves.
The fact that you openly admit your disbelief in God's power and the truth of the Scriptures' stories of miracles is disturbing.
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Sepherim
Ordo Quaesitoris
Magna Ordo
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Posted - 2008.06.11 01:24:00 -
[34]
Yet it is also too easy to claim God's will and miracles everywhere. We will see what Lady Sarum has to say, but she better have Avetat and Ametar herself if she wants to claim a miracle has taken place.
Ordo Quaesitoris Forum |
Xenea
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Posted - 2008.06.11 01:42:00 -
[35]
I am Khanid, body, soul, and spirit. I love all that is great in His Majesty, His region, His rule, and His people. Still, a part of my soul will always be connected to the Empire.
From the Empire life flows outward to the farthest reaches of the galaxy. Like many who are openly loyal to His Majesty, I also approve of Lady Sarum's return. It is for the good of the Empire. In these difficult times the Empire needs a strong, able leader with the same pragmatism as His Majesty had.
I am a realist, His Majesty forever split away from the Empire and forged His own path -- sad but true. That is the path Lord God chose for His Majesty. The destiny of Lady Sarum, however, still lies within the Empire. If She is seated, as would be the Will of Lord God, it would help bridge the rift between the Kingdom and the Empire -- in time, perhaps even to a peaceful reconciliation
Many thousands of Khanid pilots who now sit idle, out of sheer contempt for the Council, would readily follow Lady Sarem, and the Empire, into battle. |
Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 02:05:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Dyntheos
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
The succession rituals are clearly false and corrupt and should be rejected by all those that speak the true word of God
This is not the first nor last time HM Khanid II has been a fine guiding light and example and I am most pleased to see the Noble House Sarum has on this issue come to also realise the truth
House Sarum has not issued any statement declaring the rituals "false and corrupt" as of yet.
The only thing Khanid "II" is an example for is how to be a cowardly and backstabbing traitor.
Khanid showed us how the Empire had become corrupted by petty politics and bloated by pompus, overblown greed for power by lesser humans at the expense of piety and zeal, at the expense of the soul of the good people of Amarr
The fact of the matter is it is not the place of self appointed councils of beaurocrats and clergymen to drive the Empire into a downward spiral of decay and it has taken the intervention of a true noble heir to save the day
Today's events are proof that the will of God guides the success, for better or worse, of those that would stand up for themselves and truely take the path that God has chosen for them
Those that delay and hesitate and seek to hide behind a comittee will ultimately fail as we can now see so clearly. I know you are not a man to cowardly hide nor slyly squirm out of a situation, thus I will hear no more accusations from you upon those that know the path God has chose for them and are enlightened and brave enough to follow it
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Archbishop
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 02:27:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Archbishop on 11/06/2008 02:28:51
The law stated the heirs who were not elevated to Emperor would commit ritual suicide. This was the tradition and the law for many centuries. This is what Jamyl Sarum apparently did as testified to by Hardin who was there.
...Heirs commit suicide.
...Heirs are not cloned.
...Jamyl Sarum committed suicide.
...Jamyl Sarum was dead.
...Jamyl Sarum is alive.
Until this conundrum is resolved and we have the guidance of our religious leaders on the nature of this enigma I will pray for strength in these troubled times. Now more than ever we need the guidance of God and our leaders.
Faith brothers and sisters. Faith and obedience to God will see us thru.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS |
Xenea
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Posted - 2008.06.11 02:35:00 -
[38]
Millennia are longer than centuries. Nothing more needs said. |
Lowanaera
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 02:57:00 -
[39]
Is it precisely faith that spurs me to speak these words, that spurs all Amarr to action. The explosion over Sarum Prime was nothing compared to the burning light that pierces the hearts and minds of the fervent, that makes the work of God self-evident here, that undeniably asserts that Jamyl Sarum is His messenger and that the day of our renewal is at hand. Doubt is for the Gallente absently sinning their way to damnation, doubt is for the Matari barbarians huddled like animals begging false gods to save them, all we need are Faith and Zeal, and it is Faith and Zeal which demand that we follow God's Servant, Jamyl Sarum, to a glorious future in His works.
Close your eyes and your minds brothers and sisters, listen to the beat of your heart sounding a tempo for the coming war, of your blood singing praise to Him, of your Soul caught in fervent worship of all that He has brought before us. Your spirit bursts with knowledge of the truth of these events, that Jamyl Sarum is His chosen one, and that we need only be brave and faithful enough to step forward into our joint destiny.
Glory to God, glory to we His people, glory to Empress Sarum!
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Yokan Daifuku
Mithril Lances
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 03:00:00 -
[40]
Jamyl Sarum, I would cheer her if I wasn't on this side of the line. Combat against her will be truly honorable and glorious.
----
Yo-con
Die-foo-koo |
Shira d'Radonis
The Amarr Mission
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Posted - 2008.06.11 03:07:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Archbishop
Edited by: Archbishop on 11/06/2008 02:28:51
The law stated the heirs who were not elevated to Emperor would commit ritual suicide. This was the tradition and the law for many centuries. This is what Jamyl Sarum apparently did as testified to by Hardin who was there.
...Heirs commit suicide.
...Heirs are not cloned.
...Jamyl Sarum committed suicide.
...Jamyl Sarum was dead.
...Jamyl Sarum is alive.
Until this conundrum is resolved and we have the guidance of our religious leaders on the nature of this enigma I will pray for strength in these troubled times. Now more than ever we need the guidance of God and our leaders.
Faith brothers and sisters. Faith and obedience to God will see us thru.
Archbishop
Obviously God brought her back at precisely the right moment to save the Empire from complete destruction. After all, she completely destroyed an enemy fleet in spite of being horribly outnumbered. |
Gared Lameti
Tardigen Family
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Posted - 2008.06.11 03:20:00 -
[42]
As a servant of the Tardigen Family, I pledge my loyalty to House Sarum.
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Archbishop
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 04:07:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Obviously God brought her back at precisely the right moment to save the Empire from complete destruction. After all, she completely destroyed an enemy fleet in spite of being horribly outnumbered.
As the Theology Council, Privy Council and the Court Chamberlain have not commented on the reappearance of Jamyl Sarum we have no confirmation of her status. She committed suicide, had no clone, yet now lives. There are several possibilities.
1. She did not commit suicide and broke the law and betrayed the trust.
2. She had a clone in violation of the edict that heirs not be cloned and thus betrayed the trust.
3. Something else.
Until we have an announcement from our leaders we should restrain our emotions and focus on the tasks and threats at hand. We must remember our place and our duty to our empire and not become entrapped in some "moment" where all is unknown and emotions overrule common sense. We must pray for the guidance of God upon our leaders so they may enlighten us as to the true nature of this enigma. Our leaders they are wiser in the ways of scriptures and laws than we and will tell us what is happening after careful study and prayerful deliberations.
Until then we wait.
Archbishop
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Ryem Sadar
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Posted - 2008.06.11 06:26:00 -
[44]
The Sarum Family has long championed maintaining the martial traditions that have made the Empire the greatest in the universe, yet instead we allowed ourselves to be led by weak men, pacifists and appeasers, and today we see the results.
Our Fleet was broken by Slaves, abandoning our sacrosanct space to heretic barbarians, that is the Legacy of Heiderian and Doriam II.
I will await the word of the Theology Council, but I find it difficult to believe it sheer coincidence that Jamyl Sarum should return on this day, and vastly outnumbered, drive out the barbarian invaders where the might of the Golden Fleet had failed.
I take Lady Sarum's return as a sign that God has not abandoned his people, in spite of our decline into weakness and decadence, and pledge myself to the service of the Lady in the war against the Minmatar rebels and terrorists, whatever else may follow. |
Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:21:00 -
[45]
Your fleets were broken by hubris. Men and women who understand far more of the universe than pathetic little minds like yours still hold the Ammatar in disarray. The tribes are reuniting, and this time, there will be no stopping them, Empress Jamyl Sarum or not. |
Sepherim
Ordo Quaesitoris
Magna Ordo
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:28:00 -
[46]
Very well, let's put some facts on the table. Lady Sarum wouldn't have been terribly outnumbered if she hadn't desired so probably. The Amarr Navy was engaged in fierce combat there with the Minmatarr, and it was more or less an equal battle. The Navy was ordered to leave the system, like most fleets do when an allied ship with some sort of Doomsday Device is moved into the system for firing. The Device was activated at a higher power than we had seen before, and thus took down large portions of the enemy fleet. The Navy moved back in to pursue the enemy.
I don't see any miracle in this, I just see a very effective militar strategy.
Ordo Quaesitoris Forum |
Tablaren
Kingdom of Kador
Kingdom of Redemption
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Posted - 2008.06.11 11:52:00 -
[47]
ALL PRAISE BE TO THE HOLY, IMMORTAL LADY-HEIR SARUM!
Children of Amarr do we not live in the most blessed of times? A beautiful purging of the wicked has come! Smile amarr, for who better to lead us then the living saint Lady Jamyl Sarum, who not only crushed the matari fleet and sent them running but conquered death itself!
All glory to the empire!
Amarr Victor!
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Tharrn
Vigilia Valeria Expeditionary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.11 12:14:00 -
[48]
The oath sworn five years ago has not been forgotten.
Those who stood with House Sarum through all these years are overjoyed at the recent turn of events. I stand ready to renew my oath on bended knee before the Lady.
Now recruiting! |
Ru Zaldys
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:48:00 -
[49]
I cannot make assumptions on how other Amarr feel this day, but as a Holder of God's Empire, I am deeply ashamed. And shocked... yes, even demoralized.
Yesterday our mighty golden fleet was broken.
I can understand that a blitzkrieg attack on the Ammatar Mandate could be overwhelming and hard to counter. I can understand, although just barely, that an enemy fleet suddenly enters the Kor-Azor region and lays siege to it.
But what I find very, very hard to stomach is the fact that at one point, there were talks about ABANDONING DOMAIN!
8000 years of glory, might and culture, and to what does it lead? A blatant defeat by those who we are supposed to lead into God's Light.
Never before has a core world suffered an invasion, and yet, yesterday it happened on Sarum Prime.
The Empire of God is crumbling. Our traditions and culture are in danger.
A man could argue that we lost God's love.
But there still is hope. And that hope has a name. Yes, I'm talking about Jamyl Sarum.
You could argue that she is traitor for the simple fact that she is still alive. You could also note that her re-appearance was perhaps a little too convenient.
But all these arguments mean absolutely nothing to me, for I am a believer in God, and God works not by esoteric miracles but by directly influencing the world around us. And by having Jamyl Sarum rise again in the Empire's greatest hour of need, He did touch the world.
Every Amarr that questions this fact, I would suggest to take a deep hard look at yourself. And pray to the Lord he will forgive you your misconceptions.
What happened yesterday was a direct intervention from God. It saved the last pieces of dignity we Amarr still hold. And I have no doubt whatsoever that the Theology Council will come to the same conclusion.
Jamyl Sarum, thank you for saving us.
And Lord, thank you for sending her to our aid.
Regnator Omnium Deus
"Understood sir. Fire once we see the shining armour of our ships on their windows." - Laerise |
Gaius Kador
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:56:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
The succession rituals are clearly false and corrupt and should be rejected by all those that speak the true word of God
This is not the first nor last time HM Khanid II has been a fine guiding light and example and I am most pleased to see the Noble House Sarum has on this issue come to also realise the truth
Someone shut this clown up. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:01:00 -
[51]
You know, in a roundabout way, your God did send her. |
Victor Vision
Central Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:27:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Victor Vision on 11/06/2008 16:35:36
Originally by: Sepherim
Very well, let's put some facts on the table...
The Navy was ordered to leave the system, like most fleets do when an allied ship with some sort of Doomsday Device is moved into the system for firing.
Let us think about this for one moment:
During a fierce battle a dead empress sends an order to our Amarr forces to disengage.
This order is obeyed.
I can only conclude from this that parts of the military knew about Lady Sarum's existance before the invasion, and were prepared to take orders from her.
I can see no other explanation of our fleet obeying orders from a mystery entity.
Anyone could have claimed to have a miracle weapon, even the enemy. It could have been a trap.
When not 100% sure, that the one giving the order to retreat is truly friendly and in posession of such a superweapon, no one in the fleet leadership would have obeyed.
Still, this whole matter leaves me very confused.
I hope we will have the opportunity to question the fleet and the fleet commanders which withdrew about why exactly they chose to do so. We all know, fleeing the battlefield without direct order from an accpeted superior is punishable by death.
EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki |
Sepherim
Ordo Quaesitoris
Magna Ordo
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Posted - 2008.06.11 19:34:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Sepherim on 11/06/2008 19:35:35
Actually not Mr Vison. That is a possibility, indeed, but there is another. That ONE high-ranking member of the Navy (maybe a Sarum one, even?) knew it and had the influece to order that tactical retreat.
Even more, he didn't have to know that Lady Sarum was still alive, all he had to know was that something with the appropriate clearance levels (from the topest levels of the Sarum family as a minimum) had issued those orders.
Too many people are jumping on this too soon, claiming miracles, and speaking that she will be an Emperess. That may, or may not, be the case. She still has to explain why she's still alive and what has happened. Until then, until the questions are solved, all this is rushing it. |
Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.11 20:09:00 -
[54]
We shall see I guess
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Ravin Abai
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2008.06.11 20:15:00 -
[55]
A truly miraculous turn of events. Unfortunately for you, I think it might be too little too late. By all means continue fighting this war, though, you're doing us a great service.
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Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.11 22:01:00 -
[56]
I do not support Lady Sarum's claim to the thrown. Let it be said now, that what happens to Lady Sarum, governs Khanid -Amarrian relations.
If you remember the last time an heir survived Shathol'syn, our house was forced to leave the empire in disgrace. Our house remains separate even until this day and excluded from consideration in succession.
If Khanid II merited disgrace for surviving Shathol'syn, Lady Sarum merits no less. If Lady Sarum now merits honour, the house that Khanid II built merits the same, as does our heir.
Our heir is not simply an heir to the Khanid Kingdom but never ceased to a royal Amarrian heir. Rather our heir was simply excluded because of a claim of heresy.
In deciding the fate of the Lady Sarum, all Amarr, and not just the Khanid must realize that in deciding her fate, the fate of the Khanid is also being determined for the crime is one and the same!
If heresy is not applied to Lady Sarum, and Lady Sarum considerations for Imperial Succession not revoked though she survived Shathol'syn, than House Khanid's consideration for Imperial Succession should be reinstated, and our heir afforded full honours of the heir of any other Royal Amarrian house.
The parallel is there. Justice and fairness must prevail!
Long live the House of Khanid! Long live the Amarrian Empire!
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Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.11 22:24:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Azure Skyclad
How's that working out for you?
Truely, the claim was yours, not mine. A fool you are. |
Lowanaera
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 23:01:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Jove X
NO ONE can deny that this parallel is there.
Unfortunately you are quite incorrect here. Khanid II abdicated from a proper Trial of Succession carried out in the traditional manner with all aspects of Divine Law met. The "Trial of Succession" during which Jamyl Sarum avoided the Shathol'syn was an illegitimate and heretical proceeding that violated every tradition we hold dear.
While I count myself a loyal citizen of both the Kingdom and Empire, and it is my sincere hope that the heresy of Khanid II can be forgiven for the sake of our people and the reunification of the Empire, Khanid II's actions were heretical none the less and invalidate any possible claim to the Throne.
The fact that both did not fulfill Shathol'syn does not mean the circumstances or actions were equivalent or that both now have a legitimate claim.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 23:19:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Eventy One on 11/06/2008 23:20:10
I do not understand the issue fully. However as an outsider looking in, I do see an incongruity here.
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Azure Skyclad
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.11 23:20:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Jove X
Originally by: Azure Skyclad
How's that working out for you?
Truely, the claim was yours, not mine. A fool you are.
Really? Where did i claim i was God?
I believe i said something along the lines of: they told me he moved in mysterious ways in school.
Clue: I was educated in Amarrian schools....You know, those schools where they ram that religious claptrap down your throat day in day out? Helpful at all?
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