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So what was the point in capturing Caldari Prime?

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Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:06:00 - [1] So the caldari lost hundreds of ships to secure a planet in a system that is the capital of gallente space.... kinda a waste of resources wasnt it? I mean cant the gallente setup a blockade or simply not permit caldari ships from entering the system? Im not sayin that it wasnt a moral boost for the caldari people but in the long term they have a titan baby sitting a planet that can easily be locked off from the rest of the galaxy, seems to me like a tactical mistake that is going to come back to bite the caldari in the ass if you ask me. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Lone Gunman	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:11:00 - [2] I take it Jake, that you are NOT a role Player?
Shakari Sween Entropians on Vacation	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:17:00 - [3] Originally by: Jacob Mei So the caldari lost hundreds of ships to secure a planet in a system that is the capital of gallente space.... kinda a waste of resources wasnt it? I mean cant the gallente setup a blockade or simply not permit caldari ships from entering the system? Im not sayin that it wasnt a moral boost for the caldari people but in the long term they have a titan baby sitting a planet that can easily be locked off from the rest of the galaxy, seems to me like a tactical mistake that is going to come back to bite the caldari in the ass if you ask me. Because they wanted back the caladari capital that was liberated by the Gallente quite some time ago.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:18:00 - [4] Doesn't the name Caldari Prime indicate some kind of importance this planet has for the Caldari?
Sylper Illysten Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Sylper Illysten on 11/06/2008 01:21:58 Today the Caldari people reclaim their birth place from the decadent Gallente state. The liberation of Caldari Prime show stand as a rallying point for all Caldari.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:23:00 - [6] Originally by: Lone Gunman I take it Jake, that you are NOT a role Player? Used to be but not the point, though I guess at certain points of view it is. From a tactical point of view you have a titan, a mammoth of a ship, sitting in enemy territory guarding a lone planet. It has a support fleet, but hardly large enough to capture the whole system or make an attempt to redraw the lines so the system lies on your side of the border. Eventually its going to run low on fuel, ammo and supplies. It cant use its DDD as that would be political suicide for Tibus Heth, as well as would sign his death warrent. Essentially, the titan is on the losing end of a stand off. All the gallente have to do is prevent refueling convoys from reaching the titan and that is simple enough.
Chucky Honour Bound Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:24:00 - [7] And its the best place to grow weed!!
Messerschmitt facility Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:28:00 - [8] Was Caldari prime a Gallente sov until now? Rofl I didn't even noticed _________________________________ A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking...
Jmanis Catharg Stickler inc	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:30:00 - [9] Quote: . It cant use its DDD as that would be political suicide for Tibus Heth, It already did I thought, ref: the other topic in GD.
Marie Trudeau Trudeau Enterprises S.a.r.l.	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:38:00 - [10] The whole idea was to create a fulcrum for faction war. Having the Caldari occupy CP was both predictable and sensible from the game design perspective: the idea is to give a grievance for war, from the RP perspective, and of course irridentist Caldari ideas about CP are very commonplace in the fiction, so there you are. It's supposed to create a wellspring of pride on the Caldari side and resentment on the Gallente side -- i.e., the stuff of which war is made.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:48:00 - [11] Im talking about a tactical situation though. In a RP perspective I understand the need to kick off the caldari gallente war but, I guess again RP, its going to hurt the caldari side when that thing falls due to "starvation". Think about it from a military perspective and you will see where I am coming from.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Quote: . It cant use its DDD as that would be political suicide for Tibus Heth, It already did I thought, ref: the other topic in GD. I read that thread, no screnshots and some are even denying the claims.
cal nereus Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:01:00 - [13] Edited by: cal nereus on 11/06/2008 02:02:08 It's Caldari Prime. Regardless of how difficult it is to hold, Caldari Prime has a deeper meaning than mere strategic value. Besides, the Gallene capital system is only a couple jumps from Caldari territory anyways. Even if the Gallente try to lock down the system, the Caldari State can get through the back-door (unlike the players). Titans are the ultimate logistics tool. One might even say their primary function is the movement of resources, fuel, ammo, etc. --- Earning Isk Basic Skills
Shakari Sween Entropians on Vacation	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:06:00 - [14] Originally by: Jacob Mei Im talking about a tactical situation though. In a RP perspective I understand the need to kick off the caldari gallente war but, I guess again RP, its going to hurt the caldari side when that thing falls due to "starvation". Think about it from a military perspective and you will see where I am coming from. Its also pretty valid from a tactical situation. It rallies the whole nation behind the war effort. It makes it seem worth while. Not to mention that now that they have caladari prime they can just refuel it etc from caladari prime. They dont need to send ships from other systems to refuel it etc. So i hear there's no line to break sigs so your reading this cause I put it in to look like part of my post!
Captain Esharra Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Shakari Sween Originally by: Jacob Mei Im talking about a tactical situation though. In a RP perspective I understand the need to kick off the caldari gallente war but, I guess again RP, its going to hurt the caldari side when that thing falls due to "starvation". Think about it from a military perspective and you will see where I am coming from. Its also pretty valid from a tactical situation. It rallies the whole nation behind the war effort. It makes it seem worth while. Not to mention that now that they have caladari prime they can just refuel it etc from caladari prime. They dont need to send ships from other systems to refuel it etc. This is good, strategy beats tactics at this level. Like if some nation came along and pushed you and your people right out and claimed your country as their own...of course you would try to get it back...its your home man! Its the human side, why we are so emotional.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:42:00 - [16] Originally by: Jacob Mei Im talking about a tactical situation though. In a RP perspective I understand the need to kick off the caldari gallente war but, I guess again RP, its going to hurt the caldari side when that thing falls due to "starvation". Think about it from a military perspective and you will see where I am coming from. it's no sillier than the nato toehold in berlin was during the cold war was. if fighting broke out those overstrength brigades garrisoning berlin were writeoffs and yet they stayed there for 30 years because the psychological value of owning the place was worth the garrison's lives.
Artemis Rose Eleckrostatik	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:55:00 - [17] My guess is that Heth needed something BIG to keep everybody rallied up and foaming at the mouth. And what better objective than restoring Caldari Prime to its rightful owners?
Demonic Sentiment Dissonance Corp	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:56:00 - [18] lol it was the first caldari home world aka caldari PRIME lol
Novemb3r Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.06.11 03:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Jacob Mei Used to be but not the point, though I guess at certain points of view it is. From a tactical point of view you have a titan, a mammoth of a ship, sitting in enemy territory guarding a lone planet. It has a support fleet, but hardly large enough to capture the whole system or make an attempt to redraw the lines so the system lies on your side of the border. Eventually its going to run low on fuel, ammo and supplies. It cant use its DDD as that would be political suicide for Tibus Heth, as well as would sign his death warrent. Essentially, the titan is on the losing end of a stand off. All the gallente have to do is prevent refueling convoys from reaching the titan and that is simple enough. Remember though that the nations are not restricted by the rules disallowing capitals in highsec like players are. The titan at CP is a good example of this. So as long as they have a fleet somewhere they have the capability to open cynos and jump in whole fleets. They could theoretically continually reinforce the titan with dreads and carriers carrying smaller ships.
Micheal Dietrich Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.06.11 03:05:00 - [20] Think of it as Stalingrad in WW2
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn	Posted - 2008.06.11 08:29:00 - [21] It nicely stopped the quite boring "Give us back Caldari Prime" drivel in the IGS :D Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
bwheeler	Posted - 2008.06.11 08:33:00 - [22] We now have our home planet back. We will fight to the end to keep it that way!
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.06.11 08:35:00 - [23] winning and losing mean exactly the same thing put another way winning is losing is nothing ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
S3dINSTBE Just Another Indy Corp	Posted - 2008.06.11 08:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness It nicely stopped the quite boring "Give us back Caldari Prime" drivel in the IGS :D The Gallente didn't want that planet anyway Recruitment
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2008.06.11 08:39:00 - [25] It's the Caldari Homeworld....it was in Gallante hands since the last war.... Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
DeadRow Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.06.11 09:07:00 - [26] Edited by: DeadRow on 11/06/2008 09:08:57 Originally by: Mecinia Lua It's the Caldari Homeworld....it was in Gallante hands since the last war.... It was the Caldari Homeworld. They moved, starting a war over a planet is hardly a smart thing to do. And what good has it given the Caldari people? They took a single world, which is still inside now enemy territory. And the incursion into Gallente Federation is most likely illegal anyways as it was taken during the CONCORD outage, I wouldn't be surpised if it changing hands back to its former owner. edit: Thought this was the IGS -_- Quote: Iz in ur base, implanting ur dudes
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.06.11 09:09:00 - [27] Ever played the game Homeworld? Caldari Prime is Hiigara. On another note, imagine Humans were by force exiled from Earth. We would want it back would we not? No matter how good life would be on worlds we terraform we would want back the Homeworld. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Seldaaria	Posted - 2008.06.11 09:13:00 - [28] The point of capturing Caldari Prime was to waste resources and display an absolute incompetence in military matters. So far, it is working.
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2008.06.11 09:18:00 - [29] I say we take off, nuke the site from oribt. It's the only way to be sure.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.11 09:48:00 - [30] It's the introduction piece to capital tractor beams. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Killer Kelly Allied Tactical Unit Scalar Federation	Posted - 2008.06.11 09:54:00 - [31] Let's say that the Germans were to have captured Paris from the French. Would the French not want Paris back? ___________ I Get Money in the Scalar Federation
lady2isis Philae Temple	Posted - 2008.06.11 10:09:00 - [32] Originally by: Killer Kelly Let's say that the Germans were to have captured Paris from the French. Would the French not want Paris back? excellent metaphor i am who i am; therefor i am Her
Vanessa Vasquez planet eyeQ	Posted - 2008.06.11 10:24:00 - [33] damn these germans! Hopefully they don't win EURO Worldcup. We can't just attack them to get the trophy back if they did, can we? BTT The Caldari Prime story is a bit flaw to be honest. I would have expected something with more depth, since it seems such a coincidence that minmatar and caldari go to war just at the same time. Something like the caldari went to help the Amarrians out as the elders fleet was about to crush the amarrians by surprise. And of course later on, the gallenteans support the minmatar after combined amarr and caldari forces enter minmatar space. But well, i'm not much of a roleplayer either
Jovoich X-Fire space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.06.11 10:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Jacob Mei Originally by: Lone Gunman I take it Jake, that you are NOT a role Player? Used to be but not the point, though I guess at certain points of view it is. From a tactical point of view you have a titan, a mammoth of a ship, sitting in enemy territory guarding a lone planet. It has a support fleet, but hardly large enough to capture the whole system or make an attempt to redraw the lines so the system lies on your side of the border. Eventually its going to run low on fuel, ammo and supplies. It cant use its DDD as that would be political suicide for Tibus Heth, as well as would sign his death warrent. Essentially, the titan is on the losing end of a stand off. All the gallente have to do is prevent refueling convoys from reaching the titan and that is simple enough. ah the titan will just open a jump bridge to get more get more fuel and supplies
Nathvas	Posted - 2008.06.11 11:04:00 - [35] All I'm gonna say is lawl at the bad Story line. CCP need to fire their story writters. I see so many wholes things done wrong and poorly written. I'm a roleplayer and badly written stories annoy me too no end. shall I list what I found inconstant. Yes I shall!! 1. The Capitiol of any nation is coveted and protected insansly above all else. your telling me a single. SINGLE Titan supported fleet was able to entire the Gallente capitol system when there for sure be a titan or two in the capitiol system. I mean look at the larger alliances. Most have 4-8 titans with dozens of support carriers, moms and dreads. So basically Bob with its 8 titans has the military might to come in and crush all the empire nations is what you are saying? 2. The Caldari navy just happened to have a titan supported fleet ready to assualt the Gallente while the Concord was shut down? Not possible. It takes days, for the larger alliances to assualt each other and we don't have to prepare ground troops. I can personally vouch that it takes months to prepare a single division for a deployment. So only way this would work story line is if the Caldari partoke in the assualt on Concord, but it didn't in the story line. Plus if it did, Concord would so light the flames of wrath under their a$$'s. 3. By that Titan remaining around Caldari prime, it is in violation of Concord mandate. Begining of quote TO THE MILITARY FORCES OF ALL NATION-STATE MEMBERS OF THE CONCORD BUREAU ASSEMBLY: CEASE ALL NON-SANCTIONED COMBAT OPERATIONS IMMEDIATELY. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS MANDATE IS PUNISHABLE WITH DEADLY FORCE. DED AND CONCORD COUNTERTHREAT DEPLOYMENT CAPABILITIES HAVE BEEN RESTORED. REPEAT: CEASE ALL COMBAT OPERATIONS AND FALL BACK TO RECOGNIZED TERRITORIAL BOUNDARIES. end of quote. Since Concord just got restored, it hasn't had any time to recognize anything, and therefore techinically. That titan remaining in orbit of Caldari Prime is in violation of that mandate. Thats just three complete ops we didn't think things threw and read all the blogs or think things throughly I've found since I real all the updates to the storyline this morning.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.06.11 11:38:00 - [36] Warp to a safespot, come to a stop and deactivate all your modules. Turn off the jukebox for good measure. Do you hear that sound? That is what drives us. We knew it on Caldari Prime and we still hear it in the depths of space. It is calling to us.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.06.11 11:40:00 - [37] You know what's coming now don't you? If the Federation can't have it it's time to roll out the stellar converters.
Malarki X Ad Astra Vexillum Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.11 11:45:00 - [38] You have WAY too much time on youre hands - go spank the monkey
Piratejoe 54th Knights Templar THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Nathvas All I'm gonna say is lawl at the bad Story line. CCP need to fire their story writters. I see so many wholes things done wrong and poorly written. I'm a roleplayer and badly written stories annoy me too no end. shall I list what I found inconstant. Yes I shall!! 1. The Capitiol of any nation is coveted and protected insansly above all else. your telling me a single. SINGLE Titan supported fleet was able to entire the Gallente capitol system when there for sure be a titan or two in the capitiol system. I mean look at the larger alliances. Most have 4-8 titans with dozens of support carriers, moms and dreads. So basically Bob with its 8 titans has the military might to come in and crush all the empire nations is what you are saying? 2. The Caldari navy just happened to have a titan supported fleet ready to assualt the Gallente while the Concord was shut down? Not possible. It takes days, for the larger alliances to assualt each other and we don't have to prepare ground troops. I can personally vouch that it takes months to prepare a single division for a deployment. So only way this would work story line is if the Caldari partoke in the assualt on Concord, but it didn't in the story line. Plus if it did, Concord would so light the flames of wrath under their a$$'s. 3. By that Titan remaining around Caldari prime, it is in violation of Concord mandate. Begining of quote TO THE MILITARY FORCES OF ALL NATION-STATE MEMBERS OF THE CONCORD BUREAU ASSEMBLY: CEASE ALL NON-SANCTIONED COMBAT OPERATIONS IMMEDIATELY. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS MANDATE IS PUNISHABLE WITH DEADLY FORCE. DED AND CONCORD COUNTERTHREAT DEPLOYMENT CAPABILITIES HAVE BEEN RESTORED. REPEAT: CEASE ALL COMBAT OPERATIONS AND FALL BACK TO RECOGNIZED TERRITORIAL BOUNDARIES. end of quote. Since Concord just got restored, it hasn't had any time to recognize anything, and therefore techinically. That titan remaining in orbit of Caldari Prime is in violation of that mandate. Thats just three complete ops we didn't think things threw and read all the blogs or think things throughly I've found since I real all the updates to the storyline this morning.
Irle R1	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:15:00 - [40] The phail is strong is this one. Originally by: Nathvas blah blah 1. The Capitiol of any nation is coveted and protected insansly above all else. your telling me a single. SINGLE Titan supported fleet was able to entire the Gallente capitol system when there for sure be a titan or two in the capitiol system. I mean look at the larger alliances. Most have 4-8 titans with dozens of support carriers, moms and dreads. So basically Bob with its 8 titans has the military might to come in and crush all the empire nations is what you are saying? 2. The Caldari navy just happened to have a titan supported fleet ready to assualt the Gallente while the Concord was shut down? Not possible. It takes days, for the larger alliances to assualt each other and we don't have to prepare ground troops. I can personally vouch that it takes months to prepare a single division for a deployment. So only way this would work story line is if the Caldari partoke in the assualt on Concord, but it didn't in the story line. Plus if it did, Concord would so light the flames of wrath under their a$$'s. 3. By that Titan remaining around Caldari prime, it is in violation of Concord mandate. Begining of quote blah blah 1/ There're plenty of examples in real world or in novels where a capital is taken before all else(Paris WWII), things doesn't always work like dominos so use your imagination( it'd be pretty stupid tbh for any nation to put massive military in their capital and not stage them in the front line. capitals are protected by Intels and counter intels, it's a more sophisticated and effective ways of defense, and for a nation's political and economical image - as Capitals are often represented for, governments try to keep military presence at minimal.) 2/ If you happened to read a bit of FW prelude, it's something been cooking up for awhile, again use your imagination. Would other nations sit still and do nothing when there's tension arised elsewhere even not directly aim at them? no, military intel agents/politicians are ALWAYS estimating the 'possible' effects whenever there's a shift of power. The Yulai stand off proves that minies are up to something and had been planing for awhile (probably the same time as the Gallentes before the nyx incident, since they're allies) sure Scoop said that Matari government denied any connection to the fleet in yulai but... if you believe everything scoop said then you're no different than the moron who believes everything CNN said. bottom line is, the minnies and gallente have been cooking up something and it involves the concord. Has it occur to you that even 4 factions hate each other they might share a common threat, a threat that isn't a threat years ago but now it has grown in power and jurisdiction-the Concord? It's time to keep the concords in check. And would you also assume that Concord intel is clueless about the situation? lol I think they know what's coming and is busy sorting themselves thru the chaos than light the flames of wrath under anyone's a$$s. 3/ Concord mandate is meant to be violated if there's ever a better time now would be it lol RP much?
Gealbhan Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:26:00 - [41] Pries up the floor boards of his old house on Caldari Prime "Oh my limited edition Action Man with movable eyes, I missed you since I had to leave you behind in the hands of those stinking Gallente! I'm glad they never found you!" What?
Irle R1	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Gealbhan Pries up the floor boards of his old house on Caldari Prime "Oh my limited edition Action Man with movable eyes, I missed you since I had to leave you behind in the hands of those stinking Gallente! I'm glad they never found you!" What? The Gallentes turned my old house into a pleasure hub where 're the damn factories!?? i need to work!
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:42:00 - [43] We're in your space, stealing your systems. :P
Nathvas	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:42:00 - [44] to answer 1. yes, but then usually the attacker had a huge advantage of some sort. military, techonology etc. As it stands, the Caldari/Gallente have proven to be on even terms. 2. Which is also why I irked by this story. The Federation navy was deployed to the Caldary border in a previous blog. Yet the Caldari invasion, the only ships where encoutered where customs ships. This falls under the constitancry issue I have. If the fleet was deployed to the border, they would have encoutered more then just custom ships. 3. Again In previous Blogs, it has stated that Concord orgionally started out as a police force by the four nations but has grown since then into a independent entity. Its also a full fledge military force, which states in its own blog in the current updates that it has fire power to match Capital ships, destroy them and even engage a titan class ship. 4. Keeping a military presence a minimun in capitials is true, except one problem. This isn't the ground, this is in space. A solar system is a damn big place, and its more then easy to put up several shipyards in a system to house a reasonable size fleet. 5. you need more then several thousand troops to invade a planet. We're talking tens of millions easly, as any decently populated planent would have a planetary military force. RP much, yes have a group that gets together bi weekly but I ended up with a group that likes things reasonable and explainable which has tainted me so.
Ryoji Tanakama Daikoku Fleet Shipyards	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:49:00 - [45] Originally by: Jacob Mei Im talking about a tactical situation though. In a RP perspective I understand the need to kick off the caldari gallente war but, I guess again RP, its going to hurt the caldari side when that thing falls due to "starvation". Think about it from a military perspective and you will see where I am coming from. They jumped the titan in so they can jump in a jump freighter too. ~Ryoji Tanakama
Slanty McGarglefist	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:49:00 - [46] Originally by: Nathvas 1. The Capitiol of any nation is coveted and protected insansly above all else. your telling me a single. SINGLE Titan supported fleet was able to entire the Gallente capitol system when there for sure be a titan or two in the capitiol system. I mean look at the larger alliances. Most have 4-8 titans with dozens of support carriers, moms and dreads. So basically Bob with its 8 titans has the military might to come in and crush all the empire nations is what you are saying? Because Rome defended its capital this way right? __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Ryoji Tanakama Daikoku Fleet Shipyards	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:51:00 - [47] Originally by: Nathvas 1. The Capitiol of any nation is coveted and protected insansly above all else. your telling me a single. SINGLE Titan supported fleet was able to entire the Gallente capitol system when there for sure be a titan or two in the capitiol system. I mean look at the larger alliances. Most have 4-8 titans with dozens of support carriers, moms and dreads. So basically Bob with its 8 titans has the military might to come in and crush all the empire nations is what you are saying? Arguably a single gun prompted the french to surrender Paris, depending on how cynical your viewpoint is. ~Ryoji Tanakama
Amastat Omegatech	Posted - 2008.06.11 13:17:00 - [48] Edited by: Amastat on 11/06/2008 13:20:28 Originally by: Jacob Mei So the caldari lost hundreds of ships to secure a planet in a system that is the capital of gallente space.... kinda a waste of resources wasnt it? I mean cant the gallente setup a blockade or simply not permit caldari ships from entering the system? Im not sayin that it wasnt a moral boost for the caldari people but in the long term they have a titan baby sitting a planet that can easily be locked off from the rest of the galaxy, seems to me like a tactical mistake that is going to come back to bite the caldari in the ass if you ask me. The Minmatar/Thukker fleets did the same thing, except they hit MUTIPLE home worlds. I though it was kinda ballsy, to charge in and leave your own space vulnerable too - however you have to think about it. The first attack was to disable Concord, in sheer force. Concord very quickly reestablished their comm networks and stopped the fighting - think about that for a moment. The reason why they dove in so hard and so recklessly, is because they knew that this was nothing more than a window to attack. That's why - they knew they had a small window, and used extreme force, to ensure they hit their targets incredibly hard, before this window closes. Which, could rise another question. The Mercenary Thukker/Minmatar fleets - the Pirates got involved. The It was thought that Guristas Pirates and Mordus Legion was working with the Caldari in this - was the Caldari behind all of this? Did the Caldari hire the mercenaries that took out Yulai HQ? The Caldari for a long time have wanted to reclaim their old homeworld, and they have the resources to do this - it makes sense they would hire mercs to attack Concord as well, what sane Empire would directly and openly attack Concord? Originally, in the start, the Minmatar appeared to be involved - but Concord said those fleets were mercenaries, not Minmatar Fleet. If any Minmatar got involved, it was later, due to inspiration. If the Caldari WAS behind this, I would imagine their relationship with the Amarr Empire would be a mess. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu
Azia Burgi Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.06.11 13:39:00 - [49] The Caldari Navy are building a station in orbit. I would guess the titan is only there until work on the station has been completed. What incentive is there for Caldari to fight in FW? We have already won all our objectives: independance from Gallente control and Caldari Prime back under Caldari rule. Nothing to do but sell ammo to the minmatar and amarr now. Azia Burgi http://azia.geekandproud.co.uk BP Profit Calculator EVE Cemetery
Azia Burgi Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.06.11 13:43:00 - [50] Also the surrender was declared before CONCORD was restored, thus Caldari Prime is officially Caldari terrority. Azia Burgi http://azia.geekandproud.co.uk BP Profit Calculator EVE Cemetery
Ravenal The Fated Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.06.11 13:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Abrazzar Doesn't the name Caldari Prime indicate some kind of importance this planet has for the Caldari? Thats what ****** thought about Stalingrad ... (no offense meant) .
Gnulpie Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.06.11 13:56:00 - [52] Originally by: Nathvas All I'm gonna say is lawl at the bad Story line. 1. The Capitiol of any nation is coveted and protected insansly above all else. your telling me a single. SINGLE Titan supported fleet was able to entire the Gallente capitol system ... So basically Bob with its 8 titans has the military might to come in and crush all the empire nations is what you are saying? 2. The Caldari navy just happened to have a titan supported fleet ready to assualt the Gallente while the Concord was shut down? Not possible. 1) Yes, quite ridiculous. 2) That is the right question. How could the Caldari that quickly deploy all that massive fleet? How was it possible that no one noticed the amassment before? Did the Caldari know that the Thukker fleet would invade Yulai and destroy a central station there? Good threads to deploy fine RP But I agree, the Caldari Prime story was a bit too strong and overdone.
quickshot89	Posted - 2008.06.11 14:05:00 - [53] Originally by: Azia Burgi What incentive is there for Caldari to fight in FW? We have already won all our objectives: independance from Gallente control and Caldari Prime back under Caldari rule. Nothing to do but sell ammo to the minmatar and amarr now. 1) we left gallente control before the last war 2)caldari prime may be ours, but we need to defend it 3) we can class the amarr as allies in a sense, so we can fight with them 4)we must kill all gallente
Arvald The Ninjapirates	Posted - 2008.06.11 14:18:00 - [54] Originally by: DeadRow Edited by: DeadRow on 11/06/2008 09:08:57 Originally by: Mecinia Lua It's the Caldari Homeworld....it was in Gallante hands since the last war.... It was the Caldari Homeworld. They moved, starting a war over a planet is hardly a smart thing to do. And what good has it given the Caldari people? They took a single world, which is still inside now enemy territory. And the incursion into Gallente Federation is most likely illegal anyways as it was taken during the CONCORD outage, I wouldn't be surpised if it changing hands back to its former owner. edit: Thought this was the IGS -_- has everyone forgotten about that little mothership incident? Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat(or as i like to call it: Just because you are paranoid dont mean there isnt a invissible demon about to eat your face)
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.06.11 14:25:00 - [55] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: DeadRow Edited by: DeadRow on 11/06/2008 09:08:57 Originally by: Mecinia Lua It's the Caldari Homeworld....it was in Gallante hands since the last war.... It was the Caldari Homeworld. They moved, starting a war over a planet is hardly a smart thing to do. And what good has it given the Caldari people? They took a single world, which is still inside now enemy territory. And the incursion into Gallente Federation is most likely illegal anyways as it was taken during the CONCORD outage, I wouldn't be surpised if it changing hands back to its former owner. edit: Thought this was the IGS -_- has everyone forgotten about that little mothership incident? Which one? ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Ramon Sohei	Posted - 2008.06.11 14:31:00 - [56] Originally by: Wendat Huron You know what's coming now don't you? If the Federation can't have it it's time to roll out the stellar converters. That's exactly how I played MOO. Oh I miss those days...
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.06.11 14:32:00 - [57] Caldari brewed coffee. It's why the Galenteans took it over in the first place.
Yann Ephemere	Posted - 2008.06.11 14:50:00 - [58] Edited by: Yann Ephemere on 11/06/2008 14:51:08 I would like to point out the following: While Luminaire was doubtless well-defended, the Caldari threw its entire Navy at it. "capital ships from every corporation", "thousands of ships in the armada", "at least one Titan-class vessel" are the quotes I recall from the Scope. They left nothing to defend their territory. So yes, if you took all the Caldari ships generally spread out all over their space and used them all to attack a single system -- yes, they would probably win, especially if you managed to effectively lock down that system from reinforcements. Also, it seemed pretty clear that the Caldari have been gearing up for war ever since Heth came into power. Reports of their manufacturing facilities going at full steam were made public. As to the fact that the fleet was already massed and ready to go...there are plenty of mysterious circumstances here already. Where did Heth get the money from to buy his way into power? Why did the Sisters of EVE suddenly reveal the presence of the Starkmanirs? It's no stretch to posit that Somebody has been pulling strings to start a war, and from that it's trivial to assume that this same Somebody tipped off Heth that CONCORD would be out of service yesterday. And it was pointed out but bears repeating: the President ceded control of Caldari Prime to the Caldari before the CONCORD mandate went up. One assumes this also means the orbit space around Caldari Prime. Finally, someone was complaining that the war is in essence over already. Well, yes -- faction combat is meant to be something short of full-scale war; there are raids into the other Empire's territory, but not full-scale fleet warfare that could end up obliterating one of the Empires. So CCP gave us a story that leaves the peace severely crippled, but not completely dead. All in all, it seems reasonable to me.
Viqtoria Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.11 15:08:00 - [59] ~~sun tzu
Plumpy McPudding Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.06.11 15:10:00 - [60] Edited by: Plumpy McPudding on 11/06/2008 15:10:38 More planets! __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.06.11 15:11:00 - [61] Edited by: Slanty McGarglefist on 11/06/2008 15:11:17 Originally by: Viqtoria ~~sun tzu 'If fighting is assure to result in victory then you must fight!' Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little more about fighting than you do pal, because he invented it! Then he perfected it, so that no man could best him in the ring of honor. Then he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on Earth. And then he herded them onto a boat. And then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a time a bunch of animals are together in one place, its call a Tzu (zoo). Unless its a farm. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2008.06.11 15:12:00 - [62] Originally by: Yann Ephemere And it was pointed out but bears repeating: the President ceded control of Caldari Prime to the Caldari before the CONCORD mandate went up. One assumes this also means the orbit space around Caldari Prime. The President ceded Caldari Prime in order to save the lives of the Gallente population on Caldari Prime. The Caldari have a titan in orbit and quite a few hostages on the surface. Not sure what's going to happen to those people; I guess we'll see.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.06.11 15:14:00 - [63] Originally by: Captain Esharra This is good, strategy beats tactics at this level. "Strategy without tactics is the slowest path to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." Since someone has brought up Sun Tzu. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Jowen Datloran Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.06.11 15:15:00 - [64] People should not underestimate the true power of CONCORD. It is properly second to the Jove only. True that the surprise raid smashed one of their vital stations, but it seems to in no way of having crippled them. Also note how quickly the Elder armada left Yulai after the attack, properly to avoid retaliation from the secret* CONCORD capital fleet. *: I fully expect CONCORD to have a powerful capital fleet somewhere, hidden not only to us but also the 4 empires. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Yann Ephemere	Posted - 2008.06.11 15:16:00 - [65] Quote: The President ceded Caldari Prime in order to save the lives of the Gallente population on Caldari Prime. The Caldari have a titan in orbit and quite a few hostages on the surface. Not sure what's going to happen to those people; I guess we'll see. Absolutely. My point, however, is that Caldari is not violating CONCORD's edict by having the Titan there.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.11 16:48:00 - [66] What about the environmental damage being done to Calderi Prime by the mere presence of the Titan in orbit? Was there not an incident in the past where a Titan caused massive Tidal Waves which destroyed a colony? Since that monstosity has taken up orbit, we have had 2 species threatened with extinction. The first was the Bobizodian Goonswatter, a Frog-like critter that only mates during total eclipses of the Sun. The once-daily eclipse caused by this Titan passing overhead has caused the B.S. to go into a mating frenzy, with the net result that 28% of the entire population has died of exhaustion in just the past two days! Projections are for 100% mortality within 2 weeks. The second species threatened is the Tri-toed Privatphooch, a bottom-feeding marsh rat which traditionally inhabits the shallow scum-laden waters near the equator. Daily tidal waves in have swept this low-lying area clean of the sea grass the Privatphooch used to pull itself to the bottom, resulting in thousands of starving Tri-toes homeless and without hope for survival. Please think of the Polar Bears.... er I mean the B.S. and the TTPP.
Micheal Dietrich Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.06.11 16:51:00 - [67] I see COAD is having a field day with this patch.
DeadRow Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.06.11 17:38:00 - [68] Originally by: Arvald has everyone forgotten about that little mothership incident? No, the federation denied that they were involved. Obviously it doesn't mean they weren't actually behind it but without further investigate which won't happen anymore we will never find out. Also about the whole, clinging to your homeworld/land thing, I don't really see it. If someone bombed/nuked my town/country but I got out before it happened and made a decent living else where I wouldn't want to go back to where I left. Its called moving on. Quote: Iz in ur base, implanting ur dudes
LoneFox3	Posted - 2008.06.11 17:58:00 - [69] my 2 cents, what I dont see mentioned, is this is a state ship, not a playor owned one,, so it is stronger then anything we have seen.. so proubly has better fual rateing lol
Ruunho Trethara	Posted - 2008.06.11 17:59:00 - [70] Originally by: DeadRow Originally by: Arvald has everyone forgotten about that little mothership incident? No, the federation denied that they were involved. Obviously it doesn't mean they weren't actually behind it but without further investigate which won't happen anymore we will never find out. Also about the whole, clinging to your homeworld/land thing, I don't really see it. If someone bombed/nuked my town/country but I got out before it happened and made a decent living else where I wouldn't want to go back to where I left. Its called moving on. That may be true for you, but there are plenty of real-life examples of how it isn't true for everyone. From the Falklands/las Malvinas, through Northern Ireland and on to Jerusalem (historical and modern), the idea of taking "our" (country's/people's/religion's/etc) places back from those who currently hold them has proven to be stirring enough to drive many a campaign of war and terrorism, even though the dispossessed party may happen to be ticking along just fine despite the loss.
Ruunho Trethara	Posted - 2008.06.11 18:02:00 - [71] Originally by: LoneFox3 my 2 cents, what I dont see mentioned, is this is a state ship, not a playor owned one,, so it is stronger then anything we have seen.. so proubly has better fual rateing lol Navy Issue Leviathan? How many LP will that cost me?

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