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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 01:12:00 -
[1]
I believe most documents in the house of lords and house of commons are public. Surpisingly enough their private correspondences, phone calls, messages and meetings are not. Further, almost all committee's have un-minuted business to discuss issues frankly and bluntly. Otherwise we get all sorts of crap being thrown about in public.
Jade, might be good to just state the Agenda and step back.
Seriously consider taking the alloted meeting time, divide it between the issues over 90% and set 10% as AOB. If an issue fails to make it to a vote in its time limit then it gets canned to AOB. If it fails there then it gets canned to the next meeting.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 01:40:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
This isn't the House of Lords but either way I'm willing to bet they held an actual vote or something to decide that. I'm unfamiliar with that political system but here in America we agree on and publish our rules prior to stating their existence.
i'll try again. Pretty much all political structures have back channels of communication not open to the public. Belief that you can define all council business as public is just naieve.
Ever tried getting minutes of republican whips meetings with senators when they're trying to encourage them to vote? :)
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 01:41:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Yeah moving administrative stuff to the end does actually sound like a damn good idea - I think I'll do it 
now step away from the agenda :P |
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 01:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
I'm naive then. I thought this was a videogame space council not the UN.
Yet constantly argue it should mirror real world systems? surely not.
If its not really meant to be taken seriously why bother doing it? Near enough any committee / executive board has off the record channels of communication with each other, its one of the ways to thrash out differences before meetings informally so that things don't get so heated under time pressure in the meetings. It helps alot with committee cohesion.
What reason is there to see every single word a committee says during informal discussion? Their decisions can only be voted on during meetings and they are minuted. As long as any issue debated is outlined clearly in the meeting then debates where opinions collide noticeably will be recorded and stuff will actually get done.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 02:23:00 -
[5]
its to do with ease and convenience for councillors darius. Councillor A has some suggestions and wants peoples feedback, he mails council mailing list for a chat. Alternatively, he mails each one individually... whats the difference?
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 02:27:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kallynda Nai
Originally by: Sapphrine
its to do with ease and convenience for councillors darius. Councillor A has some suggestions and wants peoples feedback, he mails council mailing list for a chat. Alternatively, he mails each one individually... whats the difference?
Why would this exchange need to be kept private?
because we only have so many csm meetings and because people need to discuss things before meetings if they're going to get anything done. |
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 02:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
As I've said to them and here I had no reason to believe this was some super secret list and I'd made them all aware of that. If you do not wish me to talk about a conversation then either tell me so or don't have it. I've never been anything other than honest.
I have to ask, when you signed up to that mailing list, did your read the EULA because if it specified privacy like most lists then you're in breach...
I'm not on the committee darius but where you come from (America i believe) Mailing lists are either open or closed, the same as everywhere else in the world.
If you're not willing to keep a private mailing list private, you should remove yourself, not wait to be removed.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 03:04:00 -
[8]
and i never stated that he'd reposted anything anywhere though it is interesting that he did and that he hadn't read the EULA.
Suffice to say, a method where members of CSM members can debate issues informally in private is useful. Arguing that you don't want to therefore everyone elses discussions should be public isn't really an argument. Remember, this has to work past just this iteration of the committe.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 03:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Some people are a lot less devil-may-care than you. Face-saving compromise is necessary to a lot of people on occasion, and I'd rather not cut it off at the knees just because it's something you don't intend to make use of.
Then let people have private conversations. I'm not stopping them. Leave me out of it.
and
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
1. ALL discussions of the CSM to be ruled as "public record". This will include the private CSM mailing list. DARIUS
I think you can save a lot of time now then darius and just drop that agenda item as you've just conceded that even you think that people should be able to have their own private conversations.
I'd also suggest that at this point you should probably leave that mailing list as its clear you don't support its purpose. Or you could wait to be removed but I don't see what that would achieve tbh.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 03:23:00 -
[10]
A mailing list you can opt out of recognises that a committee has collective needs to discuss issues and provides an easy method of facilitating this.
You can of course opt out as you've stated. They're hardly mutually exclusive.
You just argued against your own argument conclusively. The committee needs to have tools when you're long gone. You've conceded people can, do and will have private discussions. The objective of a mailing list is to allow for more conscise and meaningful debate in actual CSM sessions. These ARE public.
Your argument for making it public is that you want it that way. That is your entire argument based on the last page and a half and simply isn't a reason to do it. Meeting should likely go, Agenda item open, say your piece, someone summarises reasons against, council votes. Over in about 5mins.
Or, given you've concluded its personal choice and people can opt out, it doesn't even need to be on the agenda as trying to limit peoples ability to have personal discussions, even about CSM issues, is not within your remit.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 03:42:00 -
[11]
I agree to disagree then. I hope the meeting is smoother this time.
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