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CCP: We Need Rewards For FW Pretty Please???? (a little ranty)

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Frank Horrigan	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:06:00 - [1] Everyone rambling is right. A little standing and lp and some loot Maybe.... Is just not good enough. I agree with the casual player who told me he just lost 1/5 of his savings on a day of Faction Warfare. I just got my Navy Apocalypse BPC after THREE YEARS of running missions, if not FOUR. I'm still grinding doing 2-3 missions a day, just so I can afford the minerals to build this thing. Probably to LOSE it 5 days later by some mission site pirate raiders. I want to do FW... I really do... But I cant afford to take in a t1 cruiser (which are no fun to fly thanks to tech 2 ships now) and get popped, and probably lose my pod which would cost me 2-300 mill. Can we PLEASE get some decent rewards for doing ANYTHING in this game? Why is it always the select few rich that get it all? the nice bpos, the nice moons, the nice officer mods. the nice "Isk generator" Game time card salesman idea. I'm 19, I'm not rich in RL, im not rich in eve, I work, and I can barley save up money for a car which I don't even want because gas is FOUR freaking dollars a gallon, and insurance will push me back another 130 USD a month!. My car is going to cost me more then my RENT. I DO NOT WANT TO FEEL LIKE THAT IN EVE!!! EVE is supposed to be my escape from RL! I'm not a shop owner in eve, I don't know how or have the will do emasse a t2 blueprint production sales ring, or GOD FORBID I mine again, its been at least two years since I've sat and used a mining laser. ooh.. nostalgic... I just.. I feel like I can't even get rich anymore, I literally cannot see a way for me to do it in eve anymore. I can't even chain npcs anymore, that was such a fun pastime TomB! why did you nerf it! and replace with thise horrible missions! The most I ever had was 1.2 billion, Took me years to get, and a few months to lose. now I'm starting all over, all i've got left is a few nifty items, my current ishtar, and this navy apoc I'm about to build, which, Now worth not 2.5 billion, but 500 million.. was DEFENANTLY not worth it in the end, I should have just bought the thing with isk a year ago! %$#&%. Sorrr for all the ranting, CCP I've paid you 5 years of subscriptions, thats atleast 600 dollars from me, I really do appreaceate all the work and content you bless us with but... PLEASE work on the game mechanics so I can earn some cold hard cash, and start pvping, when I WANT to, not just when I happen to loot a 300 million isk module every other 9 months! Thank you for your time!
FlameGlow State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:09:00 - [2] Edited by: FlameGlow on 12/06/2008 15:10:26 Originally by: Frank Horrigan standard FW whine #2 You run missions for 3 years and can't afford jumpclone, and a dozen cruisers? Do you officer-fit them or something?
skuko	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:09:00 - [3] Edited by: skuko on 12/06/2008 15:10:06 easy guide to cheap pvp (personal experience) set up a jumpclone - no implants. get a T1 frig/cruiser + fittings -> 5-6M MAXIMUM get blown up repeat profit :) EDIT: the funny thing is, i got podded on my first jump to nullsec(bubble) and lost my +4 set - was fun tho
jason hill Nightmare Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:12:00 - [4] looks like frankies got the hump today !
An Anarchyyt Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:12:00 - [5] Welcome to PvP.
Rhanna Khurin Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:13:00 - [6] I don't understand how the OP is so poor after so long? What on earth do you do with all your money? Maybe try and cut down on the spiced wine and exotic dancers.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:15:00 - [7] Originally by: Frank Horrigan But I cant afford to take in a t1 cruiser (which are no fun to fly thanks to tech 2 ships now) and get popped, and probably lose my pod which would cost me 2-300 mill. 1. Purchase Jumpclone 2. Use Jumpclone 3. Purchase 100 of your favorite friate (10 Million ISK before insurance) 4. Purchase 100 copies of your favorite T1 fit (20 MIllion ISK) 5. Enjoy self, get ships blown up 6. Jump back into missioning clone 7. Run 3-4 missions 8. GOTO 3
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:17:00 - [8] Yes? Thats PvP for you!
Maxpie Cross Roads Ouroboros Cross Combine	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:19:00 - [9] I'm sure you are prepared for the flames, but just thought I'd warn you they are coming... There are ways to make plenty of money aside from missioning as I'm sure you know (and I'm not talking about mining). I don't CCP want FW to be a money making venture, but rather a source of more easily accessible PVP that many have been asking for. In their minds, it is probably important that new players can participate in this as I'm sure they would like to draw in some of those 8 million or whatever WoW players (which would be terrible for Eve imo, but good for their wallet). I haven't tried FW yet, but I plan to go in with frigs and cruisers even though as of tonight I will be able to fly (and afford) a dread (yay me!). But I like to experience as much of the game as I can. If you don't have jumpclones, you should definitely get some before doing FW, that way you don't risk your expensive implants. If you need isk, why not get into a bit of trading, it's not all that hard or time consuming and can make you a lot of isk, even when you are offline, if you do it right. IMO, changing FW to an isk-making venture is not the way to go.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:29:00 - [10] What does this rant tell us? 1) You're not very good at EVE. You run missions (not in any way fun, a horrible grind, but then each to their own, if thats really your thing...) for 3-4 years and you can only just afford a Navy Apoc (jesus christ) 2) You're not very smart at isk making- you are asking CCP for an easy way to make money because apparently they forced you to grind missions. When in fact there are loads of ways of making money that dont involve missions, but you've not figured them out. 3) You have a victim complex, to some degree, and pretend that everyone with any ISK at all has access to incredibly rare resources like T2 bpos (which are hardly isk generators since... Rev 1) or dysprosium moons. Thus, you are unfortunate and unlucky to not have the silver spoon your mouth. In fact, there is a huge amount of ISK to be made by manufacturing, invention, trade, and exploration. None of these require vast investments, huge strokes of one-off luck, weeks of grinding, or immense SP. They all do require a bit of a brain (especially the trade ones), some creativity and ingenuity. 4) You dont know much about PVP. Not a crime, but the blatent nonsense of "I cant afford a cruiser" (they're basically free, with insurance, for christ's sake, and any decenet combat corp can just GIVE you infinite cruisers) as well as "and cruisers are no fun because of T2" (cruisers have been the most fun ships to fly ever. They're so cheap they're disposable, they have a nice mix of hitpoints, mobility and damage, and they're very popular and useful for FW because many sites do NOT allow t2 cruisers.) Seriously, the mind boggles at how little you know about combat if you think cruisers are bad. 5) You've never heard of jump clones. Because your 2-300m pod can be safely swapped for a disposable one with 20 minutes training. 6) You're american. We can tell because you're somehow outraged that petrol has reached the stupendously cheap price of $4 per gallon. Just to give you some perspective, in the UK its around ú1.10 to ú1.30 a litre, or (rough estimation of currency and metric conversion) about $10-$12 a gallon. In short, and not to sound rude, please /deal with it/. The problems are not on CCPs end. Everyone else is doing fine and enjoying it, not making EVE into a job.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:33:00 - [11] Ok, I have enough money to buy bs's and enough money to play FW, I dont do it...Why? All it is is a blob of small cruisers and such and I might as well pvp. I dont know why anybody would ever play FW over pvp honestly, I mean it has no rewards and the people that do it are people like this that run missions and dont partake in REAL pvp, so appearently its just going to be something that pulls the masses into this game with. Long story short, throw some rats into the mix, let people buy navy ships for cheap the higher in rank they get...Just do something or this is going to be a massive flop.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:34:00 - [12] you've been running missions for three years and cannot afford to lose a tech 1 fitted cruiser? what have you been spending the money on? you are aware that you can move on from level 1 missions? the level 2 ones are more profitable and they go all the way up to level 4. if you salvage a level 4 mission you can easily make enough money to buy a blackbird/thorax/rupture/omen and fit it as well. train up the jumpclone skill and clonejump out to a brand new implantless clone, pvp in that.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:36:00 - [13] Originally by: goodby4u I dont know why anybody would ever play FW over pvp shooting other players is not pvp?
Frank Horrigan	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:49:00 - [14] Thanks for all the feedbacks... and yeah I knew flames we're coming, im a little whiney I admit. Anyway, you all have valid points, the cruisers being cheap, jump clones (which I didn't think about becuase I remember something about people making corps and selling jump clones becuase they were hard to get or something... anyway. 1. Just cuz your gas is higher, doesn't mean its still affordable here. >_<. and two, I've been doing missions for all this time, not EVERY day, not every week, I just do it off and on to get isk. And when I say I dont have the isk, i mean currently, I've had isk.. when I first started missions I bought myself a vindicator, but this was 2-3 years ago we're talking about. The problem is, I only like to fly elite ships. Regular ships are just boring and pop alot... I want to use the cool ships, like my ishtar, or vindicator.. but if I lose one of those it takes for example, 3 weeks or 10 weeks to replace. and I didn't really include the fitting in that estimate either. I suppose I could get a jump clone and go pew pew at people in some cruisers and BC's... but.. I have a feeling I'm just going to get blobbed and killed by some strangers anyway. That might be my negativity talking, I'll give this clone + cheap ship thing a try.... But take this idea. Would you rather speed in a crappy honda accord? or a ferarri or astin martin???
Kilal Destantia	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:51:00 - [15] I find money fairly easy to come by. I've made millions casually working the market just by buying and selling ore (nice and easy). Also if you run lvl4s you can make a lot of money pretty quickly. On a decent lvl4 you're looking at 10-20m in salvage and a good amount in just bounties plus probably about 2.5m or so in mission rewards. So say on the safe side we go 20m per mission. 3 a day that's 60m. That will buy and fit a lot of frigates and cruisers. To say it's hard to make money in EVE is far from the truth. Get a good PVE ship, run some lvl4s and money issue solved. As others have said there are a lot of ways to make money in EVE..you just have to explore your options.
gfldex Kabelkopp	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:51:00 - [16] If you increase the reward for empire huggers all you get is inflation. Not that the current deflation would be any good but even a slight change can move it into the opposite direction. Do you really want the few bugs you get be worth even less? -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:53:00 - [17] if you've been carebearing all your eve life then jumping into pvp in a big expensive ship is a very bad idea. you need to learn a whole new skillset and that will take time. (how much depends on how willing you are to learn). if you go out and lose a t1 cruiser, you wont care, you might learn something. if you go out and lose a faction battleship you are likely to be very angry and upset and learn nothing except "people like to kill expensive stuff". We come for our people
Phaige Reaver Construction Services	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Frank Horrigan But take this idea. Would you rather speed in a crappy honda accord? or a ferarri or astin martin??? If there is a better then even chance that I'm going to wrap the Astin Martin or Ferrarri around a tree (ie, go pop) then hecks ya give me the Honda. ----------------------------------------------- You may be a King or a little Street Sweeper, but sooner or later you dance wi' de' Reaper!
Lennit Purn United EVE Federation	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:56:00 - [19] Originally by: El Yatta 6) You're american. We can tell because you're somehow outraged that petrol has reached the stupendously cheap price of $4 per gallon. Just to give you some perspective, in the UK its around ú1.10 to ú1.30 a litre, or (rough estimation of currency and metric conversion) about $10-$12 a gallon. It's not our fault you guys like to tax the hell out of your gas.
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.06.12 16:00:00 - [20] Edited by: Slanty McGarglefist on 12/06/2008 16:00:25 Would you rather want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle or a wooden rubber band gun made from plywood? __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Merdaneth PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.12 16:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Frank Horrigan The problem is, I only like to fly elite ships. Regular ships are just boring and pop alot... I want to use the cool ships, like my ishtar, or vindicator.. But take this idea. Would you rather speed in a crappy honda accord? or a ferarri or astin martin??? That's your problem. You know why you think an Ishtar or Vindicator are cool. Because they are rare, expensive and give an extra performance edge. Just like a ferrari does over a honda accord. Guess what? They are precisely because of those properties. If everyone could easily afford them, they would lose their 'coolness' factor. So it is impossible to have both (coolness & affordability) unless you find a way to make isk above the average eve-joe (just like Ferrari's IRL for you). ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Primnproper	Posted - 2008.06.12 16:01:00 - [22] I've been playing since 2003-2004 amd i pvp regularly in hacs and recons, the most i have ever had is 400 mil but i can easily afford a few t1 ships for fw and maybe even a couple of t2 ones for the system control bunker. Stop using so much faction stuff, drop your implants off at another clone, and fly into battle like a headless chicken, its much more fun and you don't get left with no money at the end....
Valan The Fated Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.06.12 16:01:00 - [23] Edited by: Valan on 12/06/2008 16:02:01 DO NOT FLY IT IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE IT! EDIT: that wasn't aimed at the op lol just a general tip for bypassers. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
alisandent Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.06.12 16:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Lennit Purn Originally by: El Yatta 6) You're american. We can tell because you're somehow outraged that petrol has reached the stupendously cheap price of $4 per gallon. Just to give you some perspective, in the UK its around ú1.10 to ú1.30 a litre, or (rough estimation of currency and metric conversion) about $10-$12 a gallon. It's not our fault you guys like to tax the hell out of your gas. they have to pay for their state payed health care somehow
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.12 16:04:00 - [25] Originally by: Frank Horrigan The problem is, I only like to fly elite ships. Regular ships are just boring and pop alot... I want to use the cool ships, like my ishtar, or vindicator.. but if I lose one of those it takes for example, 3 weeks or 10 weeks to replace. and I didn't really include the fitting in that estimate either. That's not FW's problem, that's your problem. Remember that the entire point of FW is to have fun, and if losing expensive ships is going to make it less fun than flying cheap ones would, you should fly the cheap ones. Originally by: goodby4u Ok, I have enough money to buy bs's and enough money to play FW, I dont do it...Why? All it is is a blob of small cruisers and such and I might as well pvp. I dont know why anybody would ever play FW over pvp honestly, I mean it has no rewards and the people that do it are people like this that run missions and dont partake in REAL pvp, so appearently its just going to be something that pulls the masses into this game with. Long story short, throw some rats into the mix, let people buy navy ships for cheap the higher in rank they get...Just do something or this is going to be a massive flop. Real PvP? That's right folks, it's not real PvP unless capitals and POS busting are involved! ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Furb Killer USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.12 16:08:00 - [26] But its your fault when you whine about your prices. (especially when your cars can barely reach a mile on a gallon. I played eve for arround 9 months now. Month in high sec, 6 months in low sec, after that i decided: hey this low sec sucks, i want high sec and i want navy megathron. So i went to high sec, and about a month later i had a navy megathron and a normal megathron as backup in case i screw something. And that wasnt by playing eve 6 hours per day. Try FW out with affordable ships (i am personally BC fan, but smaller ships are fun too). Then when you dont like it you can come back whining here. (and run a few missions first, and earn 100M...)
Bronson Hughes The. Conspiracy	Posted - 2008.06.12 16:12:00 - [27] Originally by: Merdaneth So it is impossible to have both (coolness & affordability) I disagree. My T2 gank-fitted Thoraxes are pretty cool (to me at least, my targets often disagree) and aren't all that expensive. To the OP: If you want to fly a specialized T2 ship that is fairly cool and still affordable, look at flying Interceptors. They're always in demand, they're a lot of fun to fly, and, if you don't go nuts with the rigs and officer/faction gear, they aren't all that expensive. Also, you can fly ships that are "elite" simply by using T1 hulls stacked up with T2/faction modules. You'll get a lot of the benefit of T2 without the T2 ship pricetag. As a plus, you can usually insure most T1 combat ships for more than you pay for them.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.06.12 16:30:00 - [28] Edited by: Nyphur on 12/06/2008 16:35:49 Hey Frank, you're clearly new to PvP and are coming from a mission-running perspective so I'd like to cover some of the basics here. Other people have already covered most of it but I think you really need to keep this information in mind when playing. To start with, Faction Warfare is based around PvP and not missions. If you don't want to actively engage in PvP then you don't want to do FW and have gotten the wrong idea about what it's meant to be. That's the long and the short of it, if you're not interested in the PvP taking place, faction warfare is not what you want. If you ARE interested in PvP, there's some general advice you should always follow: 1) Never fly what you can't afford to lose: Let me be clear about one thing, you will lose ships when you PvP. No matter if they're faction BS with corpum fittings or dreadnoughts with all the skills at level 5, you will lose your ship eventually. Ploughing all your isk into one ship is all fine and well for missionrunning but it is NOT a viable method for PvP. Right now my corp are launching gangs with Tech1-fit fully insured Tech 1 cruisers. Each loss costs us around 3mil total. I'm not kidding about that, we literally pay for losses by picking up a few pieces of tech 2 loot each night. A disposable gang of four cruisers led by a corpmate of mine took out an astarte yesterday and lost two cruisers in the process. That's a good 200m killed and only 6-10m lost. Those who lost cruisers could easily replace them, in fact our corp has a hanger full of prefit corp-insured ships that our man just hopped right into and got back into the action in. I'm probably going to start using battleships in gangs, myself. I have plenty of isk and can afford the 20-25m loss with each death for a while. Sell that apoc bpc and buy yourself something you can afford to PvP in. Even those of us with billions of isk don't waste it like that and if you spend a substantial portion of your isk for each loss, you'll run out of isk and not be able to pvp any more. 2) PvP is not a solo affair: Yes, we have pirates that like to solo and some players that pride themselves on their solo kills. However, most PvP is gang pvp and faction warfare is no different. It's important to point out that a single tier 1 battleship is only about as effective as three tier 1 cruisers. Think about that for a moment. A cheap gank dominix can deal 780 DPS and has about 45-50k effective HP while three cruisers have over 900 dps and 30k effective HP between them plus the added benefit of increased mobility. When you're in a gang, your own single ship isn't a huge factor and a faction battleship isn't all that much better than a normal one. Additionally, tech 2 ships should be thought of as a luxury to be used only in very organised and mobile gangs where losses are expected to be minimal. Interceptors are probably the cheapest tech 2 ships you can use and they have a vital tackler role in gangs. They'll cost you as much as a handful of disposable cruisers to lose but if you don't mind that they're a lot of fun. 3) Get a jump clone: I don't care how you get a jump clone but you need one. Pay to join a corp that offers jumpclone services in empire if you have to. Jump out of your expensive implanted head and get stuck into PvP. While an experienced pilot can get their pod off the battlefield 95% of the time, that 5% should not be costing you 200-300 million isk. This falls under the age old idium of "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose". There's probably more but those are the two most important topics. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Jack Jombardo	Posted - 2008.06.12 17:44:00 - [29] standart fanboy answer a) b) and c). But all is fine, all is nice, no problems anywhere .. and "if" DO NOT try to post them as you will for sure get flamed anyway ;).
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.06.12 18:08:00 - [30] Quote: But I cant afford to take in a t1 cruiser (which are no fun to fly thanks to tech 2 ships now) and get popped, and probably lose my pod which would cost me 2-300 mill. Insure your T1 cruise and it becomes almost free to lose. Get a jump clone and PvP in the clone without all the expensive implants. All you need is 20m spent on whichever pair of +3's fit what skill you are training atm.

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