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Christy Walton Bloodveil	Posted - 2008.06.13 05:18:00 - [1] Did you vote for a CSM candidate now elected, and if you did, do you regret it now?
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.13 05:31:00 - [2] I shall be the first(If not only) person to admit that he hasn't regretted voting for the person he voted for()
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.13 05:42:00 - [3] Are you joking? Jade did a great job providing me with all these goon tears. I love the CSM forums. CAOD was getting a bit boring as of lately. ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.13 05:45:00 - [4] I voted for Jade because he was the only one with a vision of the game I really liked. If I'd known how much of a walking drama bomb he was going to be, I probably would have looked a bit harder for second-best, but I'm not convinced yet as to whether I'd have voted otherwise given the option. I will, however, be sure to look people's forum histories up more thoroughly next time when I'm picking who to vote for. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.13 05:59:00 - [5] On a serious note: Yes, I voted for Jade primarily because I happen to agree with the general ideas of his manifesto and because he's a damn good communicator, BUT I'd be lying if say that I didn't foresee great opportunities for drama especially with an organization like GoonSwarm. ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Dannie Trejo	Posted - 2008.06.13 06:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Illaria because he's a damn good communicator hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Jason Marshall Hammer Of Light	Posted - 2008.06.13 10:56:00 - [7] I wish we could cast a vote of no confidence. Jade really crossed the line.
baalaagaa GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.13 12:07:00 - [8] Originally by: Illaria he's a damn good communicator WALL OF TEXT
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.06.13 13:20:00 - [9] I voted for Hardin, and he's one of very few doing what he actually should be. So yeah... I'm not regretful in the slightest. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Tekeran The Hull Miners Union The Red Skull	Posted - 2008.06.13 18:16:00 - [10] Voted Hardin. I'm still happy with my vote. We are now recruiting!
Wednesday Sheffield GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:09:00 - [11] Voted Bane. I haven't seen enough to call him great but he's one of the best on the council. I am not unhappy with my choice.
Yuki Santara Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.06.14 00:33:00 - [12] I voted for Ankh and Jade, not regretting it so far. I always thought that the vote should have been more about who appears mature and reasonable enough to sort through the mess that are the EVE forums and present the important issues to CCP, but then I gave one half of the vote to Jade anyway because I liked his agenda. :) Maybe people will vote differently next time, when it's more clear what the CSM actually does (too many still seem to think that the CSM is supposed to make decisions about the development of the game). That said, I do think that Jade is probably not the right person as chairman at this time, not because he is unable, but because too many CSM members seem to have issues with respecting his authority due to his controversial character. A more neutral person might have better luck, but what I am most disappointed with so far is, that it's not just the goons who make this a lot harder than it should be by being excessively argumentative. There is still enough time for everyone to get their act together and the actual results aren't _that_ bad for a start, so I am not worried (yet). And all of this will give us a good idea who and who not to re-elect next time around.
Darius JOHNSON	Posted - 2008.06.14 00:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Yuki Santara That said, I do think that Jade is probably not the right person as chairman at this time, not because he is unable, but because too many CSM members seem to have issues with respecting his authority due to his controversial character. The chair has no inherent authority. There is nothing to respect. Originally by: Jade Constantine You might be a big man on the internets Darius but prepare to be laughed at quite a lot in Europe.
Windjammer	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON The chair has no inherent authority. There is nothing to respect. :edit: Before some goose takes this out of context I'm explicitly referring to "respecting authority". Respecting opinions or anything else is a different story. Ding! Wrong again, oh great one. The chair does have authority. Authority to moderate meetings. I know this vexes you fiercely, but it's the way things are. Suck it up, accept reality and respect the authority for what it is. Mere administrative duty. Moderating the CSM meeting in no way means that Jade is your superior. As you are fond, very fond, of saying, "you're all equal on the council". Don't worry. Nobody contests this. Windjammer
Windjammer	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:25:00 - [15] Oh.....and I do not regret who I voted for and, no, it was not Jade. I'm very pleased with the choice I made and in light of events to date would not hesitate to make the same choice again. Windjammer
Darius JOHNSON	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Windjammer Ding! Wrong again, oh great one. The chair does have authority. Authority to moderate meetings. I know this vexes you fiercely, but it's the way things are. Suck it up, accept reality and respect the authority for what it is. Mere administrative duty. Moderating the CSM meeting in no way means that Jade is your superior. As you are fond, very fond, of saying, "you're all equal on the council". Don't worry. Nobody contests this. Windjammer You're still speaking about things you don't know about. See this very forum for an example of that change re: rotating moderators. Originally by: Jade Constantine You might be a big man on the internets Darius but prepare to be laughed at quite a lot in Europe.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:39:00 - [17] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 14/06/2008 03:41:58 Originally by: Darius JOHNSON You're still speaking about things you don't know about. See this very forum for an example of that change re: rotating moderators. Yeah Darius is right on this one. I think we all agree now that that rotating moderation responsibilities and letting people introduce their own issues and get a turn running the debate is a good thing. It has been a bit experimental and random so far but I'm going say right now that I'm happy for Darius to handle moderation responsibilities on his own issues and if we can come to some kind of agreement to make it work I'd be happy see a fully rotating chair with us all sharing the moderation burden. Either that or completely outsource the chair role to a ccp appointed non voting moderator. I'm really not interested in stupid admin power struggles - I just want to see our issues get promoted correctly and the CSM to be a success. And as the actual CSM reps have all calmed down and come to agreement on this point this week I'm pretty confident it'll happen. The Chair position never really had any actual "power" - every argument we've had this week has been a storm-in-a-teacup blown up to ridiculous proportions by the jerry-springer factor of doing this all in public for an audience of bored internet spaceship geeks :) *in which category I suspect a lot of CSM fall as well. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.14 04:20:00 - [18] Voted for Darius, expected the CSM to do nothing, got a bunch of drama, am happy with my vote.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.14 05:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Jade Constantine Yeah Darius is right on this one. I think we all agree now that that rotating moderation responsibilities and letting people introduce their own issues and get a turn running the debate is a good thing. It has been a bit experimental and random so far but I'm going say right now that I'm happy for Darius to handle moderation responsibilities on his own issues and if we can come to some kind of agreement to make it work I'd be happy see a fully rotating chair with us all sharing the moderation burden. I think Jade needs to be reported for EULA violations - specifically, sharing his password. There's no way our friendly neighbourhood Andrew Cruse would say that Darius is right Seriously though, if this can be worked out, I'm entirely in favour. Anything that makes this committee function is a good thing. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Tress Macneille Eight year old girls GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.14 07:04:00 - [20] Voted for Bane, am very glad
Willford Bremly Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.06.15 08:16:00 - [21] Originally by: Illaria because he's a damn good communicator Silencing people you don't agree with is communism. Thats not communication. »\(¦_o)/»
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.15 14:17:00 - [22] Edited by: Illaria on 15/06/2008 14:24:31 Originally by: Willford Bremly Silencing people you don't agree with is communism. Thats not communication. You should read up about communism, my friend. It describes a socioeconomic order that implies the public ownership of the means of production, facilitating the dispersion of the interest gained from those to the benefit of the whole population and not a single investor (at least in theory). It has nothing to do with communication even if the words may seem similar. Of course there may be the slim chance that you are a remnant of the cold war era, so you equal communism with everything you else you might consider unfavorable. I don't know which would be more embarassing for you: if your statement originated from your profound lack of education or your McCarthyism. ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:54:00 - [23] Originally by: Illaria Edited by: Illaria on 15/06/2008 14:24:31 Originally by: Willford Bremly Silencing people you don't agree with is communism. Thats not communication. You should read up about communism, my friend. It describes a socioeconomic order that implies the public ownership of the means of production, facilitating the dispersion of the interest gained from those to the benefit of the whole population and not a single investor (at least in theory). It has nothing to do with communication even if the words may seem similar. Of course there may be the slim chance that you are a remnant of the cold war era, so you equal communism with everything you else you might consider unfavorable. I don't know which would be more embarassing for you: if your statement originated from your profound lack of education or your McCarthyism. To be fair, silencing people who disagree with the ruling elites is a fairly fundamental aspect of communism as it's actually practiced in real life. I don't think there's ever been a communist regime that allowed for dissent - most of them would just shoot you out of hand(and a few of the more creative ones would then send your family a bill for the bullet), and the rest would just have you rotting in a jail cell for years or decades. Marx's theorymongering aside, equating communism with repression is a fairly apt statement about how the world actually functions. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.15 16:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto To be fair, silencing people who disagree with the ruling elites is a fairly fundamental aspect of communism as it's actually practiced in real life. I don't think there's ever been a communist regime that allowed for dissent - most of them would just shoot you out of hand(and a few of the more creative ones would then send your family a bill for the bullet), and the rest would just have you rotting in a jail cell for years or decades. Marx's theorymongering aside, equating communism with repression is a fairly apt statement about how the world actually functions. Silencing people was also the common practice durung the McCarthy era in the USA, the land of free. Repression was also a trademark of many regimes that enjoyed the support of the western states in their fight against communism, e.g. the the military junta in Chile during the Pinochet years. So repression is something that happens independent of the underlying socioeconomic model of a society. Equating repression with communism is really political oversimplification of the more primitive kind. ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.15 16:21:00 - [25] Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 15/06/2008 16:22:38 Originally by: Illaria Silencing people was also the common practice durung the McCarthy era in the USA, the land of free. Repression was also a trademark of many regimes that enjoyed the support of the western states in their fight against communism, e.g. the the military junta in Chile during the Pinochet years. So repression is something that happens independent of the underlying socioeconomic model of a society. Equating repression with communism is really political oversimplification of the more primitive kind. Hey, I hardly claimed that communism was the only repressive system humans have ever used for government. Mind you, it's one of the worst - Stalin and Mao both killed far more people than **** - but a cursory examination of history will tell you just how evil humanity can be, no matter what rhetoric is used to justify it. He was oversimplifying, I'll agree, but he wasn't doing so inaccurately. Edit: Wow, they censor the name of everybody's favourite ** dictator? This board must have had some real fun with Godwin's Law back in the day. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Tress Macneille Eight year old girls GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.15 19:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Illaria Edited by: Illaria on 15/06/2008 14:24:31 Originally by: Willford Bremly Silencing people you don't agree with is communism. Thats not communication. You should read up about communism, my friend. It describes a socioeconomic order that implies the public ownership of the means of production, facilitating the dispersion of the interest gained from those to the benefit of the whole population and not a single investor (at least in theory). It has nothing to do with communication even if the words may seem similar. Of course there may be the slim chance that you are a remnant of the cold war era, so you equal communism with everything you else you might consider unfavorable. I don't know which would be more embarassing for you: if your statement originated from your profound lack of education or your McCarthyism. No it's not, you're just trying to show off. Communism is by nature oppressive because there is no other way to enforce its tenants effecively other than through force: communism without the dictatorship of the proleteriat is a 19th century pipe dream that can never exist. But anyway you just keep on copy pastin wikipedia passages in an attempt to look smart, it worked in high school so it should work here as well right!? Also conflating Stalin and McCarthy? Seriously?
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.15 19:25:00 - [27] Edited by: Illaria on 15/06/2008 19:28:31 Originally by: Tress Macneille Also conflating Stalin and McCarthy? Seriously? Where did I compared Stalin to McCarthy. I even never mentioned Stalin. But perhaps you're conflating Stalin with communism? In this case let me conflate the republican, federal, free market system, with slavery, racism and intolerance. I'm sure this would be fair, wouldn't it? Just because some red necks told you that communism is the definition of institutionalized evil and can be used as general analogy for everything that is undesirable is doesn't have to be true. ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Tress Macneille Eight year old girls GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:02:00 - [28] I should have known it would be useless to argue about freedome with an european.
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Tress Macneille I should have known it would be useless to argue about freedome with an european. I'm quoting this, before you edit it out. Oh, speaking of freedom: We here in Europe have the freedom to travel to Cuba. Perhaps it's because our societies aren't so paranoid about communism, that they feel it necessary to forbid their own citizens traveling or conducting business there. Just a thought. ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Willford Bremly Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Illaria Edited by: Illaria on 15/06/2008 14:24:31 Originally by: Willford Bremly Silencing people you don't agree with is communism. Thats not communication. You should read up about communism, my friend. It describes a socioeconomic order that implies the public ownership of the means of production, facilitating the dispersion of the interest gained from those to the benefit of the whole population and not a single investor (at least in theory). It has nothing to do with communication even if the words may seem similar. Of course there may be the slim chance that you are a remnant of the cold war era, so you equal communism with everything you else you might consider unfavorable. I don't know which would be more embarassing for you: if your statement originated from your profound lack of education or your McCarthyism. Sorry, my education prohibits me to copy/paste from wiki. Also I put in bold your obvious level of education in the spelling area. That is ironic and funny. Don't worry though, the words do seem similar. Oh, and good luck making communism work without a dictator. »\(¦_o)/»
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:41:00 - [31] Originally by: Willford Bremly Also I put in bold your obvious level of education in the spelling area. Quality rebuttal right here. I'd advise to take some lessons on forum warrioring from your Goon friends. ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Willford Bremly Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:48:00 - [32] Sounds like a Jade alt. »\(¦_o)/»
The RedPlague Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:56:00 - [33] I voted on the A.B.G. premiss .... ANYONE BUT GOON ... so far i don't regret my vote Cheers,
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:57:00 - [34] Originally by: Willford Bremly Sounds like a Jade alt. I take this as a compliment. Though I'm not (another thing you could have learned from consulting GoonSwarm first), there are worse people that one could be accused to be the alt of. ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Willford Bremly Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.06.15 21:07:00 - [35] Edited by: Willford Bremly on 15/06/2008 21:07:22 Originally by: Illaria Originally by: Willford Bremly Sounds like a Jade alt. I take this as a compliment. Though I'm not (another thing you could have learned from consulting GoonSwarm first), there are worse people that one could be accused to be the alt of. You really are bent on thinking that anyone who dislikes the chair or you are a Goon/Goon alt/Goon friend? So Sad. :( »\(¦_o)/»
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.15 21:20:00 - [36] Originally by: Willford Bremly You really are bent on thinking that anyone who dislikes the chair or you are a Goon/Goon alt/Goon friend? So Sad. :( That's ironic considering you just have suspected me to be the alt of Jade on your previous post Are you really bent on thinking that anyone who dislikes GoonSwarm() and their sycophants is a Jade alt. So sad Actually individual Goons are not so bad really, it's just their aggregation that makes them unbearable. ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Exodus Alpha Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.06.15 23:31:00 - [37] I voted for Jade, and no I don't regret my vote. Expect any CSM chair to be a "walking drama bomb" - it comes with the position. You'll always have the people who love to pick apart every little action or word that the chair says and attempt to turn it against that person. And having other uncooperative members on the CSM doesn't help much. Jade just seems headstrong and willing to make his own decisions to me, which is something I would expect out of a chair (and out of Star Fraction, tbh). I can't see any reason people would want a uncontroversial and coincidentally indecisive person to chair the CSM. So you don't agree with some of Jade's actions, and maybe he is particularly flippant to his detractors - so what? That doesn't make him the antichrist, which is what I'd expect given some of the bull**** spread between this forum and the Assembly Hall.
Tharrn Vigilia Valeria Expeditionary Forces	Posted - 2008.06.16 11:04:00 - [38] How could I not still love Hardin? Known him for five years and he's a top bloke who has a lot of common sense, which seems to be scarce these days. Now recruiting!
Rodj Blake PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.16 11:12:00 - [39] I voted for Hardin, and I'm pretty happy with his performance so far Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Asuri Kinnes Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.06.16 16:21:00 - [40] Voted for Deidra Vaal - happy with my vote. AK Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking. Ethics, Honor and Respect. Without the first two, you can't buy the last one...
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:07:00 - [41] I voted for Hardin and so far he's done well, keeping to the spirit of what the CSM was supposed to be.
Jonny Damordred Stimulus	Posted - 2008.06.17 20:08:00 - [42] Originally by: Jade Constantine Either that or completely outsource the chair role to a ccp appointed non voting moderator. I'd do it. I have no problems telling you all to shut up. Pick me! Pick me! Cheers, Jonny D. ------------------------- CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.17 20:21:00 - [43] I 100% support and approve of how Darius has handled his interactions with it. Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
Windjammer	Posted - 2008.06.18 16:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Dramaticus I 100% support and approve of how Darius has handled his interactions with it. Kill up.
Lia Gaeren Pole Dancing Vixens	Posted - 2008.06.19 17:26:00 - [45] I voted for Ank with one of my characters and Torn Soul with the other. I'm happy with both - Ank has been a pretty awesome secretary so far, and just because Torn Soul got voted just outside the alternate list doesn't mean I regret the vote. Her platform was right for whichever one of the characters it was that voted for her, and I'd vote for her again :)
Lurks Amarr Dragons Of Redemption	Posted - 2008.07.01 18:31:00 - [46] I completely regret wasting my 2 votes on LaVista Vista cause he promised to pay 1 billion isk per vote and has failed to follow through with his promise.... wait that sounds so much like a politician.. always failing to deliver
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:43:00 - [47] Originally by: LaVista Vista I shall be the first(If not only) person to admit that he hasn't regretted voting for the person he voted for() I voted for LV because no one else running (and even still now that they are elected) had a deep understanding of how important the industrial and market aspect of the game is. No regret
Hae t'Redd Caldari Ishukone Black Watch	Posted - 2008.07.01 23:08:00 - [48] I'm actually pretty proud of my Candidate. They were one of the three candidates I think acted appropriately during this whole debacle. The others need to learn how to listen when someone else is talking...then speak. Not just override everyone else and browbeat them when you don't like what they say. But really did anyone expect anything different. When you get something like this together, there will always be to many egos in the room.
Tzujeih GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.02 01:34:00 - [49] Seeing as Darius and Bane are the only delegates who aren't carebears, im pretty satisfied. Also, im not *** or anything, but Bane is the hottest of the bunch.
Suvliana Minmatar 21st Highland Regiment	Posted - 2008.07.02 01:49:00 - [50] Originally by: Christy Walton Did you vote for a CSM candidate now elected, and if you did, do you regret it now? No, cause I voted CANADIAN!!!! Yeah to the dude who was running for CSM from CANADA! Canadians know how it's done.
Darina Rea Naqam	Posted - 2008.07.02 09:57:00 - [51] I actually forgot who I voted for, but to be fair, it doesn't really matter who I did vote for, it only mattered when I was taking that vote. The voting is in essence a tool to get a diverse as possible group together that can address more then just one single issue. If all CSM members came from the same type of players, Pvpers, miners, traders, rpers, possers, you name it, I would have been sorely dissapointed. but so far I'm seeing lots of different issues and problems being pointed out, so I'm happy with whoever got my vote again. No if only one of those CSM personalities would be so kind to champion the AF cause I'd be completely happy _________ [i]Time is on our side.
manasi Caldari Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:05:00 - [52] Not in the least. LaVista Vista is doing a good job IMO. Even if he did a crappy job, it is still better than I could do. Don't second guess yourself, it is not worth it. -M
Semkhet Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:57:00 - [53] Originally by: Willford Bremly Silencing people you don't agree with is communism. Thats not communication. LMAO Actually I must be among the few ones here who, as westerner, experienced a frontal clash with communism, having to fight the general mindset & bureaucracy of a former Varsaw Pact member country when attempting to secure the relocation of a "communist" lady who became my wife, all this years before Glasnost & Perestroika kicked in and the wall finally fell. Had to stay there over a year and ended learning the language (required if you really want to get things done). And you know what ? I've moved my ass through enough countries to loose count, but I will not forget that except for stupid civil servants, I've never interacted with such humane individuals like citizens of these ex-WAPA nations. It's that simple. When the system puts you in deep poo, you help each other. No money will ever compensate lost social brotherhood despite my fat wallet and I've since long learned that finances only allow you to fool yourself by buying delusions. If you're not wise enough to be happy with what you have, big or small, no amount of money will do it. All that to say that most peeps have not the shadow of a clue when they talk about communism. Was communism bad ? Yes, in the way it was implemented. Could communism be a good thing ? Maybe, if individuals were advanced enough not to fall in the trap of replacing the influence of money with the mixed weight of a party affiliation card and a specific position. Where did I encounter the most genuinely happy people ? In these poor countries. Never found in the USA, Europe or the ME educated individuals who were simultaneously so sincerely aware about the mechanisms governing their societies, the limits that were artificially imposed to their development, and yet enjoyed their lives. I've risked jail when smuggling PC's & modems at cost for students in order to enable a few of them to open a window to the outer world and get aware. It was my way of fighting communism. Now in the retrospective, all what capitalism brought there are a few guys who became stinking rich (all former exponents of the communist apparatus btw), and the rest is not only poorer than ever, but also struggling with an exponential criminality that didn't exist before. So idiots can continue to ********** with their empty rhetoric & theories. I'll stand by my actions, RL experience, and regrets that I actively fought a system which, at the end, wasn't half so bad as the pro-capitalist lobby would let you believe. Got that from a 70-years old farmer whose parents were executed by russians at the end of WW2 because they refused to have their land nationalized: "Before, I could talk and everybody would listen. Now I can scream and nobody pays attention". And when talking about "Jade's controversial personality", well, at least he has one
Hurtado Soneka Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.04 12:29:00 - [54] How long until the next CSM vote? I definately miss not having my vote.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.04 16:53:00 - [55] Originally by: Semkhet Originally by: Willford Bremly Silencing people you don't agree with is communism. Thats not communication. LMAO Actually I must be among the few ones here who, as westerner, experienced a frontal clash with communism, having to fight the general mindset & bureaucracy of a former Varsaw Pact member country when attempting to secure the relocation of a "communist" lady who became my wife, all this years before Glasnost & Perestroika kicked in and the wall finally fell. Had to stay there over a year and ended learning the language (required if you really want to get things done). And you know what ? I've moved my ass through enough countries to loose count, but I will not forget that except for stupid civil servants, I've never interacted with such humane individuals like citizens of these ex-WAPA nations. It's that simple. When the system puts you in deep poo, you help each other. No money will ever compensate lost social brotherhood despite my fat wallet and I've since long learned that finances only allow you to fool yourself by buying delusions. If you're not wise enough to be happy with what you have, big or small, no amount of money will do it. All that to say that most peeps have not the shadow of a clue when they talk about communism. Was communism bad ? Yes, in the way it was implemented. Could communism be a good thing ? Maybe, if individuals were advanced enough not to fall in the trap of replacing the influence of money with the mixed weight of a party affiliation card and a specific position. Where did I encounter the most genuinely happy people ? In these poor countries. Never found in the USA, Europe or the ME educated individuals who were simultaneously so sincerely aware about the mechanisms governing their societies, the limits that were artificially imposed to their development, and yet enjoyed their lives. I've risked jail when smuggling PC's & modems at cost for students in order to enable a few of them to open a window to the outer world and get aware. It was my way of fighting communism. Now in the retrospective, all what capitalism brought there are a few guys who became stinking rich (all former exponents of the communist apparatus btw), and the rest is not only poorer than ever, but also struggling with an exponential criminality that didn't exist before. So idiots can continue to ********** with their empty rhetoric & theories. I'll stand by my actions, RL experience, and regrets that I actively fought a system which, at the end, wasn't half so bad as the pro-capitalist lobby would let you believe. Got that from a 70-years old farmer whose parents were executed by russians at the end of WW2 because they refused to have their land nationalized: "Before, I could talk and everybody would listen. Now I can scream and nobody pays attention". And when talking about "Jade's controversial personality", well, at least he has one Thanks for that Semkhet. Sometimes its posts like these that make me glad I'm playing eve online with some personalities and real people behind the avatars. Respect for your experience and actions there. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Tzujeih GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.05 17:23:00 - [56] So what, you just mute the people you don't believe are real people behind the keyboard? And you've yet to admit you made a stupid mistake. Good luck next round pubby.
Daviclond GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.07 02:19:00 - [57] itt starry-eyed eurotrash attempt to champion the supposed merits of an inherently flawed and demonstratably impractical social system
ceyriot Entropians on Vacation	Posted - 2008.07.08 12:45:00 - [58] /me tries to remember who he voted for... Faction Store - Killboard
Semkhet Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.07.09 11:40:00 - [59] Edited by: Semkhet on 09/07/2008 11:44:04 Originally by: Daviclond itt starry-eyed eurotrash attempt to champion the supposed merits of an inherently flawed and demonstratably impractical social system "eurotrash" is a term almost exclusively used by US conservatives. You are probably very proud of your flavor of "capitalism" which is so exquisitely sound that your economy needs a daily injection average of 2 billion USD of FOREIGN funds in order to avoid your sand castle to fall apart. But you would have known that provided would you enjoy any experience about operating with decent amounts of $$$, what automatically places you in the overcrowded realm of peeps who talk about societies, money & politics yet are too poor to abstract themselves from any of these at any given time and don't have the means to try something else somewhere else even if they wished to. For example, your military budget is bigger than the military budgets of all other nations on Earth combined. Yet your troops still intermittently lack services & gear. A significant portion of this budget is allocated to R&D projects, which in the purest outsourcing tradition, end in the wallet of the military industrial lobby and its plethora of privately-owned businesses. So you can get back to me trumpeting the virtues of your system the day you find out for yourself which is the % of combined direct & indirect taxes your people pays which directly contributes on short or medium term to your daily life quality. FYI, scheme like these are called "indirect subventions". So talk about socialism... The post you refer to was deemed to explain that nowadays, you can get a bullet in the head for peanuts as easy in the US as former WAPA countries, when it wasn't like that before. Since most individuals don't have the luxury to wander around with bodyguards or armored cars, it's the majority who suffers from precarious social conditions. The difference between the systems under the perspective of individual physical integrity was that in WAPA countries, as long you didn't mess with politics, you were safe, unlike the US and other capitalist nations where it all boils down to being in the wrong spot at the wrong moment. Funnily enough, the country which enjoys the best ratio of wealth management vs population is Switzerland, a tiny country managing 33% of the world's assets. Did you ever visit Switzerland ? It's a nice country, where citizens enjoy such a wide array of state benefits that from a US conservative perspective you could as well tag them as communists... Get back to me the day your capabilities extend beyond the local KFC
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.11 13:15:00 - [60] Originally by: Jonny Damordred Originally by: Jade Constantine Either that or completely outsource the chair role to a ccp appointed non voting moderator. I'd do it. I have no problems telling you all to shut up. Pick me! Pick me! Cheers, Jonny D. Full support! ____________
Illiya Caldari GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.07.11 20:11:00 - [61] Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 09/07/2008 11:48:19 Originally by: Daviclond itt starry-eyed eurotrash attempt to champion the supposed merits of an inherently flawed and demonstratably impractical social system "eurotrash" is a term almost exclusively used by US conservatives. You are probably very proud of your flavor of "capitalism" which is so exquisitely sound that your economy needs a daily injection average of 2 billion USD of FOREIGN funds in order to avoid your sand castle to fall apart. But you would have known that provided would you enjoy any experience about operating with decent amounts of $$$, what automatically places you in the overcrowded realm of peeps who talk about societies, money & politics yet are too poor to abstract themselves from any of these at any given time and don't have the means to try something else somewhere else even if they wished to. For example, your military budget is bigger than the military budgets of all other nations on Earth combined. Yet your troops still intermittently lack services & gear. A significant portion of this budget is allocated to R&D projects, which in the purest outsourcing tradition, end in the wallet of the military industrial lobby and its plethora of privately-owned businesses. So you can get back to me trumpeting the virtues of your system the day you find out for yourself which is the % of combined direct & indirect taxes your people pays which directly contributes on short or medium term to your daily life quality. FYI, scheme like these are called "indirect subventions". So talk about socialism... The post you refer to was deemed to explain that nowadays, you can get a bullet in the head for peanuts as easy in the US as former WAPA countries, when it wasn't like that before. Since most individuals don't have the luxury to wander around with bodyguards or armored cars, it's the majority who suffers from precarious social conditions. The difference between the systems under the perspective of individual physical integrity was that in WAPA countries, as long you didn't mess with politics, you were safe, unlike the US and other capitalist nations where it all boils down to being in the wrong spot at the wrong moment. Funnily enough, the country which enjoys the best ratio of wealth management vs population is Switzerland, a tiny country managing 33% of the world's assets. Did you ever visit Switzerland ? It's a nice country, where citizens enjoy such a wide array of state benefits that from a US conservative perspective you could as well tag them as communists... Get back to me the day your capabilities extend beyond the local KFC no u Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.12 02:16:00 - [62] Very much so.
Iblis Noir	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:00:00 - [63] Originally by: Semkhet All that to say that most peeps have not the shadow of a clue when they talk about communism. Was communism bad ? Yes, in the way it was implemented. Could communism be a good thing ? Maybe/snip Having lived in Poland in the late 70's, I know exactly what communisim, (scientific socialism), is like, however I fear that people are confusing this and Marxism. Nice quote: Quote: Communists are "socialist" in the same way that Republicans are "compassionate conservatives". That is, they give lip service to ideals they have no intention of practicing. Apologies for contributing to the derail.
Nexus Kinnon SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.14 00:26:00 - [64] voted for both goum and jade, hoping both would get in so there would be an enormous ***** fight. Was disappointed.

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