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What's this change to production ME?

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Salpad	Posted - 2008.06.15 00:18:00 - [1] I haven't produced anything yet, but I'd like to start doing that some day (later this year), and so I try to keep up with the general changes that CCP makes to the game. Recently, I heard that the EA patch changed the way ME works, so that now very high MEs are valuable, or something, maybe like for when you do huge batch jobs with gigantic quantities of items, whereas last year the standard advice told to me was that you actually didn't need much ME, because you'd quickly hit a point of diminishing returns, but most BPCs sold would still be researched up to fairly high ME values because that's what the market - irrationally - assusmed was good. What's going on? Can someone give me a brief summary of how the functioning of ME has changed? (And has PE changed too?) -- Salpad
Salpad	Posted - 2008.06.15 00:18:00 - [2] I haven't produced anything yet, but I'd like to start doing that some day (later this year), and so I try to keep up with the general changes that CCP makes to the game. Recently, I heard that the EA patch changed the way ME works, so that now very high MEs are valuable, or something, maybe like for when you do huge batch jobs with gigantic quantities of items, whereas last year the standard advice told to me was that you actually didn't need much ME, because you'd quickly hit a point of diminishing returns, but most BPCs sold would still be researched up to fairly high ME values because that's what the market - irrationally - assusmed was good. What's going on? Can someone give me a brief summary of how the functioning of ME has changed? (And has PE changed too?) -- Salpad
Fortune X	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:05:00 - [3] Before the patch the minerals were rounded AFTER being multiplied by the number of runs. After the patch the minerals are first rounded, and then multiplied by the number of runs. Researching ME to very high values is just as worthless as it used to be. Nevermann Corp
Salpad	Posted - 2008.06.15 21:50:00 - [4] Originally by: Fortune X Before the patch the minerals were rounded AFTER being multiplied by the number of runs. After the patch the minerals are first rounded, and then multiplied by the number of runs. Researching ME to very high values is just as worthless as it used to be. So the advice from last year is still good? Okay, and thanks. -- Salpad
Alex Redwidth	Posted - 2008.06.16 02:09:00 - [5] Basically, the opposite is true. Rather than high ML being as valuable as it used to be (reducing the mats needed for large runs), the change has now made it so Perfect ML for 1 run, is the same for multiple runs. This now means you can zero waste with very low of MLs of 20 or 30 even for items with large production runs (such as missiles). This does mean the bar got drastically lowered for new researchers to be able to produce BPs on a par with those with a stockpile of high ML prints.
El'essar Viocragh Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.06.16 04:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Alex Redwidth Rather than high ML being as valuable as it used to be... ...during Trinity and Trinity only. Before, it was the same as now. Stop spreading FUD and making it sound like something it is not. Quote: This now means you can zero waste with very low of MLs of 20 or 30 even for items with large production runs (such as missiles). Correct. Quote: This does mean the bar got drastically lowered for new researchers to be able to produce BPs on a par with those with a stockpile of high ML prints. Considering it got an artificial and unneeded raise one expansion ago, it is now back on track. Not lowered, but equal to "as it used to be". What this really means, is that you do not have to research small mass-quantity items to ridiculous ME levels as was the case during the brief time of the trinity expansion. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Salpad	Posted - 2008.06.16 10:03:00 - [7] Thanks for the info. -- Salpad
Braaage eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.06.16 13:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Fortune X Researching ME to very high values is just as worthless as it used to be. And people will still hog lab slots researching to stupid amounts of ME and PE. -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EVE Database, Character Generator & more
Letrange Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2008.06.16 14:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Braaage Originally by: Fortune X Researching ME to very high values is just as worthless as it used to be. And people will still hog lab slots researching to stupid amounts of ME and PE. Well since it was that way before Trinity, and during Trinity, it'll be the same after Trinity so no change there. What I find interesting is there are changes in the wind that indicate they are trying to make PE just as valuable as ME. Pay attention to any Chronotis blogs and posts in the near to mid future.
Braaage eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.06.16 14:46:00 - [10] Well I don't know if the DEVs still read this forum but I'd be all for charging more the more ME and PE a BPO gets rather than lab time. Sort of (as an example) Up to ME20 - 3,000 ISK Per Hour Up to ME30 - 12,000 I-P/H Up to ME40 - 24,000 I-P/H Up to ME50 - 48,000 I-P/H Up to ME60 - 96,000 I-P/H Up to ME100 - 128,000 I-P/H Or better still cap all BPO researching to unresearchable once ME hits 0.5 waste. -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EVE Database, Character Generator & more
JohnnyGoofy Danish Trade and Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.16 19:33:00 - [11] /me looks @ his T1 mining crystal BPO's that just got out of ME and PE ...they are now at 200/200. Damit all! /Johnny
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.06.16 20:03:00 - [12] Yet again, my laziness has proven a benefit in EVE. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Mia Morningstar	Posted - 2008.06.16 23:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Braaage And people will still hog lab slots researching to stupid amounts of ME and PE. Lots of people is obsessed with that one trit of wastage left
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.06.17 03:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Braaage Well I don't know if the DEVs still read this forum but I'd be all for charging more the more ME and PE a BPO gets rather than lab time. Sort of (as an example) Up to ME20 - 3,000 ISK Per Hour Up to ME30 - 12,000 I-P/H Up to ME40 - 24,000 I-P/H Up to ME50 - 48,000 I-P/H Up to ME60 - 96,000 I-P/H Up to ME100 - 128,000 I-P/H Or better still cap all BPO researching to unresearchable once ME hits 0.5 waste. Check out the Assembly Hall, there is a proposal by LV to make Alliance Labs rentable to the public and to scale the cost of jobs in a station like rents for offices. That would nix the ME to 300 on Torp jobs right quick

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