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Napro
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:38:00 -
[1]
Loving FW so far and it seems a new age of PvP is opening up and it's fantastic.
But why are these "neutrals" in Black Rise allowed to roam free? Scavenging up all the high-dollar wrecks and what not?
If these people are in a war-zone I should be allowed to gank them without worrying about a sec hit, and so should any faction fighting in the war-zone. Keeping warp bubbles and other 0.0 things out of low-sec is something I agree with... but I cant tell how many times one of my fleet mates has gone flashing red and taken a sec hit for accidentally shooting on some ******* neut that was waiting to salvage and loot after we do all the work.
Not to mention all the alt. scouts that follow fleets like bloodsucking ticks, completely eliminating any chance of surprise in this war.
Thoughts?
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Napro
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:38:00 -
[2]
Loving FW so far and it seems a new age of PvP is opening up and it's fantastic.
But why are these "neutrals" in Black Rise allowed to roam free? Scavenging up all the high-dollar wrecks and what not?
If these people are in a war-zone I should be allowed to gank them without worrying about a sec hit, and so should any faction fighting in the war-zone. Keeping warp bubbles and other 0.0 things out of low-sec is something I agree with... but I cant tell how many times one of my fleet mates has gone flashing red and taken a sec hit for accidentally shooting on some ******* neut that was waiting to salvage and loot after we do all the work.
Not to mention all the alt. scouts that follow fleets like bloodsucking ticks, completely eliminating any chance of surprise in this war.
Thoughts?
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Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:43:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Constance Harme on 15/06/2008 04:44:07
 Originally by: Napro
If these people are in a war-zone I should be allowed to gank them without worrying about a sec hit...
Last time I checked its still illegal for a soldier to shoot a civilian/non-combatant even if he is in a war zone. Dont see why it would be different here.
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Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:43:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Constance Harme on 15/06/2008 04:44:07
Originally by: Napro
If these people are in a war-zone I should be allowed to gank them without worrying about a sec hit...
Last time I checked its still illegal for a soldier to shoot a civilian/non-combatant even if he is in a war zone. Dont see why it would be different here.
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alexreborn
Virulence.
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:45:00 -
[5]
wouldn't he be flagged??
and umm.... it might be illegal for a soldier to shoot a civilian, thats unarmed, and not involved in the conflict, but a Civilian poking away at the remains of a dead soldier, trying to steal the stuff from his carcass?
ud get thrown in Guantanamo for that.
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alexreborn
Virulence.
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:45:00 -
[6]
wouldn't he be flagged??
and umm.... it might be illegal for a soldier to shoot a civilian, thats unarmed, and not involved in the conflict, but a Civilian poking away at the remains of a dead soldier, trying to steal the stuff from his carcass?
ud get thrown in Guantanamo for that.
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Napro
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:46:00 -
[7]
yes but if it's an obvious spy following the army from house to house, he'd be shot dead.
why is looting cans a crime but salvaging a wreck not a crime?
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Napro
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:46:00 -
[8]
yes but if it's an obvious spy following the army from house to house, he'd be shot dead.
why is looting cans a crime but salvaging a wreck not a crime?
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Napro
Not to mention all the alt. scouts that follow fleets like bloodsucking ticks, completely eliminating any chance of surprise in this war.
Thoughts?
Welcome to PVP in EVE, chief.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Napro
Not to mention all the alt. scouts that follow fleets like bloodsucking ticks, completely eliminating any chance of surprise in this war.
Thoughts?
Welcome to PVP in EVE, chief.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:57:00 -
[11]
In 0.0 you get scouted/tailed the same way, only in 0.0 people use CovOps or 10km/s+ intys. In low sec it's much cheaper for people to use neutral throw away alts in shuttles/rookie ships to get the same effect.
The Pusher Man |
Segge Bolled
Rainy Day Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Napro
why is looting cans a crime but salvaging a wreck not a crime?
Salvage:
1.the act of saving a ship or its cargo from perils of the seas.
2.the property so saved.
3.compensation given to those who voluntarily save a ship or its cargo.
4.the act of saving anything from fire, danger, etc.
5.the property saved from danger.
6.the value or proceeds upon sale of goods recovered from a fire.
7.to save from shipwreck, fire, etc.
And,
8. Not something you're automatically entitled to just because you lost/killed it.
9. Something very few people in EVE seem to understand the concept of at all.
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F'nog
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.06.15 05:00:00 -
[13]
Black Rise is mostly low sec. So why not just shoot them and drive them off?
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.15 05:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Napro
why is looting cans a crime but salvaging a wreck not a crime?
Oh look, the mission runners- cum- conscripts of the Caldari militia are whining about salvage "theft."
How did I fail to see this one coming? 
___________________________________________
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cal nereus
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.15 05:12:00 -
[15]
Shoot them if you don't like it, or, better yet, shoot your own wrecks. I don't think there's a sec hit for shooting your own wrecks, and you deny them the salvage. Eventually they'll get the idea and leave.
---
Earning Isk
Basic Skills
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.06.15 05:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Napro
If these people are in a war-zone I should be allowed to gank them without worrying about a sec hit
So don't worry about it. Problem solved. 
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Gojyu
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.06.15 06:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Napro
yes but if it's an obvious spy following the army from house to house, he'd be shot dead.
Fun, irrelevant fact, but no he wouldn't, that's a war crime
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.06.15 06:14:00 -
[18]
Welcome to PvP/low sec. Grow some balls and kill something despite the sec hit, or quit whining.
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TARG AK
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.15 06:33:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Napro
why is looting cans a crime but salvaging a wreck not a crime?
Oh look, the mission runners- cum- conscripts of the Caldari militia are whining about salvage "theft."
How did I fail to see this one coming?
Geeze, what a bitter old hag,
What gets me is all of the dudes in this game that use a female alt, whats up with that? Role playing perhaps?
Thinking about it evokes a silance of the lambs image *shudders*
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.06.15 06:35:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Eternal Error on 15/06/2008 06:35:24
Originally by: TARG AK
Geeze, what a bitter old hag,
What gets me is all of the dudes in this game that use a female alt, whats up with that? Role playing perhaps?
Thinking about it evokes a silance of the lambs image *shudders*
Many Men Online RolePlaying Girls.
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.15 06:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: TARG AK
Geeze, what a bitter old hag,
What gets me is all of the dudes in this game that use a female alt, whats up with that? Role playing perhaps?
Thinking about it evokes a silance of the lambs image *shudders*
So. First time on the internet?
___________________________________________
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TARG AK
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.15 06:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: TARG AK
Geeze, what a bitter old hag,
What gets me is all of the dudes in this game that use a female alt, whats up with that? Role playing perhaps?
Thinking about it evokes a silance of the lambs image *shudders*
So. First time on the internet?
OMG!
How did YOU know!
It's like you know everything or something!
Dude, your amazing.
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Hesod Adee
Xen Of Onslaught
Infinite Innovation
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Posted - 2008.06.15 08:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: TARG AK
What gets me is all of the dudes in this game that use a female alt, whats up with that? Role playing perhaps?
Thinking about it evokes a silance of the lambs image *shudders*
For most MMOs you have to stare at your characters ass for hours on end. So you make it nice to look at. And once habits form they are hard to break.
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.06.15 08:50:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TARG AK
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Napro
why is looting cans a crime but salvaging a wreck not a crime?
Oh look, the mission runners- cum- conscripts of the Caldari militia are whining about salvage "theft."
How did I fail to see this one coming?
Geeze, what a bitter old hag,
What gets me is all of the dudes in this game that use a female alt, whats up with that? Role playing perhaps?
Thinking about it evokes a silance of the lambs image *shudders*
I think that evocation says more about you than the people with female avatars.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Lelulie
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.15 09:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hesod Adee
Originally by: TARG AK
What gets me is all of the dudes in this game that use a female alt, whats up with that? Role playing perhaps?
Thinking about it evokes a silance of the lambs image *shudders*
For most MMOs you have to stare at your characters ass for hours on end. So you make it nice to look at. And once habits form they are hard to break.
It's pixels
------------------------------------ |
Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.15 09:04:00 -
[26]
Thanks guys. Glad to know chivalry ain't dead.
___________________________________________
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Steve Celeste
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Posted - 2008.06.15 10:02:00 -
[27]
1. FW is an isk SINK, get used to it
2. Ask your FC for permission to own neutrals if you have enough sec status and can tank gate guns
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.06.15 10:09:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 15/06/2008 10:10:39
Originally by: F'nog
Black Rise is mostly low sec. So why not just shoot them and drive them off?
People dont want the sec hit and/or gate guns. It delays the fleet while waiting for the timer to run out.
But sometimes you just cant help yourself so you pop that cherry anyway. 
---
Its dead, Jim.
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Bald Rikk
The Legendary Fleet
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Posted - 2008.06.15 10:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Hesod Adee
For most MMOs you have to stare at your characters ass for hours on end. So you make it nice to look at. And once habits form they are hard to break.
I laughed
Thanks
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Lilith Velkor
Oyster Colors
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Posted - 2008.06.15 12:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mr. Orange
In 0.0 you get scouted/tailed the same way, only in 0.0 people use CovOps or 10km/s+ intys. In low sec it's much cheaper for people to use neutral throw away alts in shuttles/rookie ships to get the same effect.
Thats exactly the problem imho. Having a 'real' gangmember using cov ops or inty is an investment when you need scouting, using 300 alts sitting in their noobships at every gate is nothing more than cheating in my book since there is absolutely no risk (isk-wise) involved whatsoever and it was never intended (at least I think so) that you can have constellation-/region-wide intel that way without risking anything of value.
/rant
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Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.06.15 13:07:00 -
[31]
it might be cheaper than 0.0 scouts but general FW IS cheaper than 0.0 so their easy scouts are cheaper as well...
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th1rdeye
PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.06.15 13:24:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Thats exactly the problem imho. Having a 'real' gangmember using cov ops or inty is an investment when you need scouting, using 300 alts sitting in their noobships at every gate is nothing more than cheating in my book since there is absolutely no risk (isk-wise) involved whatsoever and it was never intended (at least I think so) that you can have constellation-/region-wide intel that way without risking anything of value.
But instead of proposing solutions you are content to ***** and moan in the forums. Oh wait, you're not proposing solutions because there aren't any. Should CCP ban alts? Trial accounts? OR maybe make anybody you don't like fair game?
They've tried that, it's called 0.0
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.06.15 13:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Steve Celeste
1. FW is an isk SINK, get used to it
2. Ask your FC for permission to own neutrals if you have enough sec status and can tank gate guns
FAUCET
mineral sink yes, isk sink HELL NO, think of all those insurance payouts...
and hard to shoot a neutral salvager when you are all in caracels
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Armoured C
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.15 14:04:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Armoured C on 15/06/2008 14:05:32
You will find the neutrals will all the time more increase. Yesterday our fleet encountered privateers alliance and Pandemic Legion in what we only know as spamming POS's up in the new region. though the Privateers left us to our own devices the pandemic legion only attack us when our fleet was separated for complex bunker capturing and using a carrier to kill a few battleships (which they didn't get) at a unrestricted complex lol. Why cant people bring reasonable fights instead of what i can only describe as the caldari militia super planet eating blob or bring cap ships in to kill 5 battleships.... 5. Your just lucky that the system lagged out so bad that my overveiw spawned everything 200 times in that tiny window 
caldari: worst than eating your own face |
Roy Batty68
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.06.15 16:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Napro
some ******* neut that was waiting to salvage and loot after we do all the work
This was one of the Privateer complaints pre and post Alliance P nerf. You know what they got told by the masses?
Want sympathy? Find it in the dictionary between **** and syphilis.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Maximus Gladius
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Posted - 2008.06.15 16:17:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Gojyu
Originally by: Napro
yes but if it's an obvious spy following the army from house to house, he'd be shot dead.
Fun, irrelevant fact, but no he wouldn't, that's a war crime
Not so. It has always been legal to shoot spies in wartime, even under geneva
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Farrqua
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.15 16:55:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Maximus Gladius
Originally by: Gojyu
Originally by: Napro
yes but if it's an obvious spy following the army from house to house, he'd be shot dead.
Fun, irrelevant fact, but no he wouldn't, that's a war crime
Not so. It has always been legal to shoot spies in wartime, even under geneva
After it has established he was a spy in the first place. And that requires capture, interrogation and so forth. Otherwise as far as you know you could be shooting some CNN reporter trying to get some pics and a story. (Which at times shooting the CNN reporter might be in the best interest for all)
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.15 18:02:00 -
[38]
Black Rise has dollars? Probably why the RA was there.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Lilith Velkor
Oyster Colors
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Posted - 2008.06.15 19:42:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 15/06/2008 19:43:16
Originally by: th1rdeye
But instead of proposing solutions you are content to ***** and moan in the forums. Oh wait, you're not proposing solutions because there aren't any. Should CCP ban alts? Trial accounts? OR maybe make anybody you don't like fair game?
Exactly, there is no solution that wouldn't open a whole new can of worms, so basically people would simply have to stop being cheapskates... yes, won't happen in a hundred years.
On a sidenote, it's lowsec, so everybody I don't like IS already fair game
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Armoured C
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.15 19:45:00 -
[40]
that right it is low sec if you want to become a pirate then do so and just remind in low sec
we just dont share info with anyone who we think is a spy until proved otherwise
caldari: worst than eating your own face |
eddie valvetino
Aurea Flamma
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Posted - 2008.06.21 19:37:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Napro
Loving FW so far and it seems a new age of PvP is opening up and it's fantastic.
But why are these "neutrals" in Black Rise allowed to roam free? Scavenging up all the high-dollar wrecks and what not?
If these people are in a war-zone I should be allowed to gank them without worrying about a sec hit, and so should any faction fighting in the war-zone. Keeping warp bubbles and other 0.0 things out of low-sec is something I agree with... but I cant tell how many times one of my fleet mates has gone flashing red and taken a sec hit for accidentally shooting on some ******* neut that was waiting to salvage and loot after we do all the work.
Not to mention all the alt. scouts that follow fleets like bloodsucking ticks, completely eliminating any chance of surprise in this war.
Thoughts?
easy answer, take the sec hit and PEW PEW... bye bye
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) |
Corstaad
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.21 20:54:00 -
[42]
Then you'd become a pirate. Pirate and FW have to many conflicts for them to work out so you have to pick one.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.21 22:26:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Gojyu
Originally by: Napro
yes but if it's an obvious spy following the army from house to house, he'd be shot dead.
Fun, irrelevant fact, but no he wouldn't, that's a war crime
And just who is going to report this war crime? You think soldiers don't execute spies that are putting their squads in danger in a warzone? Methinks you read too much fluffy BS about 'war'.
Disobeying an order in the field can be punishable by dead, on the spot. You actually think people are put on trial for executing spies?
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Maglorre
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Posted - 2008.06.21 22:49:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Corstaad
Then you'd become a pirate. Pirate and FW have to many conflicts for them to work out so you have to pick one.
Not really. I've been running in FW gangs with a bunch of -10 guys. The only problem has been that every now and then some noob thinks "HEY! FLASHY RED, I CAN SHOOT HIM!". They tend to discover this is a bad idea when the FC calmly tell the offender to stop shooting his own gang members and then calls him primary .
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2008.06.21 23:14:00 -
[45]
This issue is one of the reasons why i already left fw.
It makes simply no sense that there are currently all pvp players allowed to shoot the fw players.
Sure its low! But it should not be low - its faction wars.
The problem is that i care about my security status.
Most FW players dont shoot neutrals because of the impacts the like security status hit.
FW players have higher risks in comparison to the non fw pirate gangs.
FW people fight to defend their faction. Normally this should increase their security status because they improve the security of their own faction. So it makes really no sense that their sec status is decreased within the small fw regions, because they are fighting aggressors which are specialized at killing fw players.
FW might fail soon, because its just an ISK sink.
Sure some guys get valuable loot out of it. But remember: the valuable loot comes from other killed FW players.
It will be only lucrative for a small percentage of fw players. The most unlucky players will be leaving soon.
There is no other benefit available. Something like capturing a system for the research slots of the stations would be a benefit. But currently there is only the benefit of easily joining large Blobs. (Which always end in lag hell).
Personally i left, because fw has no benefit.
I dont care about ISKs. Losing some ships does not hurt me. But i care about sense. And in FW i feel like there is no sense in it. Flying to a stronghold and wait for 20 minutes to capture it does not attract me. Where is the fight against the system fortifications? Where is the fleet fortifying the system when its captured? From a role playing point of view, fw is just a failure.
Defending Systems in 0.0 has more sense in it.
Kel
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Schneiderr
Asgard Schiffswerften
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.06.22 00:34:00 -
[46]
/me likes when people get trigger happy and flashy red, i can kill them right in the middle of their fleet mostly without anyone else of their 20-60 other guys interfering cause they dont like to take the consequences, sec hit, killrights. BUT they have to understand that every action in this game has its consequences of one sort or another, right after you undock and even while docked.
i mostly fly taranis for fun, makes it possible to get into those little capturing plexs and gives me more possibilities even being not enlisted. i got four factions as valid targets, well... if i manage to annoy them enough to get flashy that is :)
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Lokche
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Posted - 2008.06.22 00:52:00 -
[47]
If someone steals from you, you gain permission to shoot them for 15 minutes. If someone steals from your enemy, your enemy gains permission to shoot them. This seems fair to me. Tell me why CONCORD thinks you deserve rights to your war target's wrecks, or why you deserve those rights and I'll reconsider.
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