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Awwww no more kestral ganking in high sec space :)

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Katya Detia	Posted - 2004.05.12 11:52:00 - [31] On another note, cruise and torps are being made so they will have more trouble hitting smaller ships. So in the end, it will all balance out. --------------------------- CEO: Black Sea Industries
McWatt	Posted - 2004.05.12 12:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Katya Detia On another note, cruise and torps are being made so they will have more trouble hitting smaller ships. So in the end, it will all balance out. ? well, at the very end, i guess, it will. but of course there are clever ways of handling things and stupid ones. so why not make the change that you re speaking of before the other one?
Phasics	Posted - 2004.05.12 12:17:00 - [33] basically missle are now more similar to projectile turrets just with better range more consitent dmg but lower ROF and chance of missle destruction. as has been said now in apr with other turrets so now a Kestral vs Tristan might acutally make for an intersting fight
splattercat	Posted - 2004.05.12 13:35:00 - [34] Humm....indys are A-slow B-soft... = ez target..y not just make indys stronger? so it takes the same to kill one as a cruser,if it takes a team of 4 +kes and 1 hauler to take down a indy in "safe space" thats the way to ballance that problem IMO if u lose 4 ships a time and take a sec hit so u cant use the alt for long and have to keep retraining teams it will put ppl off ( i hope).. (also help them stop geting killed in belts so ez). As for frigs and cruse.. i can take a kes with cruse out in a rifter np and live..
Armin Chamberlain	Posted - 2004.05.12 13:47:00 - [35] In your face, McWatt! Hahahaha, guess you gotta find other exploits now!
EvilDoomer	Posted - 2004.05.12 13:58:00 - [36] Yea the missile ganking sucks in my opinion. So I guess I can load a gun on my bestower and start taking out kestrels now........ REVENGE of the BESTOWERS! Scary thought. I love missiles and this does suck. But I will see. Thanks EvilDoomer Chicago Mobsters Ghost Fleet Pilot
Maud Dib	Posted - 2004.05.12 16:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Bohr Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Bohr Once again this seems the bs pilots are very happy about the new changes, and especially frig and to some extent cruiser pilots hate it (cruisers will get some changes for the better tho. Was stated in original post). As for the indy pilots, sure kestrel gankers can be a pain, but could be sorted with a more effective use of sec rating, or some love for the space tuckers. I allways wondered how a criminal, sometimes wanted, can sit right next to the sentries or police force ships without being noticed :P If they i.e added criminal flagging you would also have a chance at solving the ore thief and maybe non consentual war probs Simply removing something to fix a bug/exploit can sometimes be done with using what's allready in the game. Thought long and hard about this and still hate the missile changes. Has a fair share of pros for the bs pilots, but does'nt outweigh what's happening to the frigs. Fast paced action seems dead, and i'm bound to train for a bs which flies as a hauler 8( I fly a Rifter and Rupture btw. Yours Bohr Wrong, I'm a cruiser pilot, got another acount that's a frigate pilot, both are absolutely loving these ( and the other planned ) changes to death. Only kestrel/breacher pilot hate the changes the rest of the frigate pilots will love this change cause it means turret frigates will actually have a use now. Yes. As for frig><frig, the changes are good but for ganging up to take down the prime trophy, a bs, the changes are ridiculous. So in your opinion good, not imo. Yours Bohr I see, so your not really concerned with balance or game play but only your ability to get your " prime trophy". That one little statement speaks volumes about why we have a great deal of the ***ing and moaning we have. If people had not ***ed up a storm we could have just had drone tracking and wrecking shots fixed but no the lamers had to pitch a fit. BS Lamers- " Oh my god, you mean I can't hit a frig going ten million miles an hour five feet in front of me with my 1400's everytime?" Frig Lamers-" Oh my god, you mean I can't kill a BS thats prepared with three n00b ships an hour after opening my account?" Meanwhile cruisers suck and are going to suck even more because it seems like they suck so bad nobody flys them enough to care what happens to them.
Galk	Posted - 2004.05.12 16:24:00 - [38] "If people had not *****ed up a storm we could have just had drone tracking and wrecking shots fixed but no the lamers had to pitch a fit." Nail, Head, ect.... People were taking the p--s for sure, but then it's up to the players to adapt to that, not for ccp to change the sodding laws of everything to solve a problem which you could work round. All thats gona happen reguarding the killings in sec space is one hundred and one afk'ers suddenly cry joy again ------------------------ ---- Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/
Lord Azraiel	Posted - 2004.05.12 17:12:00 - [39] Also remember other changes that are being brought in. The one that makes battleships blasting apart frigates very very very hard. So frigates>battleships! "I'm comin' for ya, and Hell's comin' with me!"
Damajink	Posted - 2004.05.12 18:38:00 - [40] I'd sure like to know what cruiser changes are planned, as these changes will make cruisers even more useless. Now they have neither the speed, strength or damage dealing capacity required to be effective in battles - the only cruiser anyone will see is the Blackbird.
Damajink	Posted - 2004.05.12 18:41:00 - [41] Originally by: Lord Azraiel Also remember other changes that are being brought in. The one that makes battleships blasting apart frigates very very very hard. So frigates>battleships! I thought I saw someone on a topic say that the changes will mean that cruise missiles could travel over 5km/s.....this will make it EASIER for battleships to kill frigates as long as they mount a seige launcher or two....(I haven't actually done the maths though, I'm just saying what I thought I saw)
Deloup Drakar	Posted - 2004.05.12 19:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Damajink Originally by: Lord Azraiel Also remember other changes that are being brought in. The one that makes battleships blasting apart frigates very very very hard. So frigates>battleships! I thought I saw someone on a topic say that the changes will mean that cruise missiles could travel over 5km/s.....this will make it EASIER for battleships to kill frigates as long as they mount a seige launcher or two....(I haven't actually done the maths though, I'm just saying what I thought I saw) Yes but they also stated the the tracking for cruise/torps vs a frigate would be harder...so even though your missiles will go 5km/sec....they'll just fly right by the frigate and be nothing but a money-sink.
Exarch	Posted - 2004.05.12 20:00:00 - [43] as i understand it the bs can mount smaller weapons to deal with frigs. im new to the game but personally i like it, i am training for intercepter pilot and im glad to see i wont be killed in 1 hit by a bs. no more putting a few big guns and missiles and being the lord of the battlefield.
Sajuuk Cor	Posted - 2004.05.12 20:09:00 - [44] Once again, a proposed "fix" makes certain ships worthless. As if we don't have enough useless/under-used ships in-game already. WTG.. no more use for Kestrels at all. I'm "all for" finding balance..but this isn't it.
Acix	Posted - 2004.05.12 20:53:00 - [45] Just in case anyone can't think past their own nose; not everone used frigs to gank haulers in high sec space. My corp has attacked and killed many cruisers and battleships using frigs for the quicklock web and warp scramble. Frigs were actually useful to a certain extent finally. We still had the problems of drones killing frigs moving at 3km/sec from greater than 100km away. Still had hybrid large 425's killing them in one shot from almost any range under 200km. Small guns tracking speed sucked so bad that half your shots still missed a huge battleship target while orbiting (if you are in an orbit guns should almost never have to move). Now nerfing them back into useless ships makes them only good for high speed shuttles. Having cruisers loose cruise missiles will make everyone only use their battleships once again. Too bad the devs couldn't find a better solution to stop the high sec space ganking. It was a bad situation but should have been handled differently. SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts. For more info click below http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.05.12 20:54:00 - [46] Originally by: Sajuuk Cor Once again, a proposed "fix" makes certain ships worthless. As if we don't have enough useless/under-used ships in-game already. WTG.. no more use for Kestrels at all. I'm "all for" finding balance..but this isn't it. The only thing you're losing is the 1200 HP insta-gank. You'll still be able to do a lot of damage with rockets (considering they are getting a damage boost and the ROF of rocket launchers is something crazy like half a nanosecond) but it means you'll have to stick around to do it. Sticking around in a frigate will be much easier because of the tracking changes/drone changes. You'll also have more powergrid/cpu spare to fit webber/warp-jammer in med-slots (with an mwd) and leave lo-slots free for speed ehancing/agility enhancing modules. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Heine Shaver	Posted - 2004.05.12 21:30:00 - [47] No more passive cargo scanning and getting Bs Unlimited bps for little or no work!! That sucks, I didn't even have a complete set of bs Lvl 2 bps yet. WTT: Dominix Unlimited and armagedon me 15 bps for 1 Tempest Bp, Eve mail me
Siddy	Posted - 2004.05.12 21:57:00 - [48] Edited by: Siddy on 12/05/2004 21:58:29 oh boy - guess its time to fit 3x 200mms on mi rifter agen - good ol noobtimes i do not opose thees changes as long they increase frig survivability by nerffing hevydrones - they hurt frigs alot also making rocets and other ligter type missiles a lil more useful then thy are now - there is absolutly no point to use any other than cruisemissiles and ofcorse adding beter turret bonuses to frigs whuld be nice -------------------------------------------
Demangel	Posted - 2004.05.12 22:00:00 - [49] To be honest 99% of the people posting against this change turn my stomache... Very few of them can argue thier rationale for there point of view beyond: CCP SUXXOR! I enjoy reading the points of view that use example and debate things with the understanding that if CCP is made aware of possible problems, there is the chance they will notice and be careful not to ruin things... Again, as someone said elsewhere... I wish I had 10ISK for every time some noob or ganker screamed that the sky was falling over a change like this... What also amuses me most of all I think is the fact that noob pilots, unaccustomed to EVE and all it's glory (IE nerf bats ETC), pilots who also assume that missiles where always this overpowered ETC, who never flew anything else other than a Kestrel or carc are whining the loudest. Take your Kestrel against my incursis, and I need a lot more skill to take you down... Take your Carc against my thorax and I probably won't be flying home... Take your Carc against a BS and there is a REMOTE chance your Carc will win in 1v1! No other ships can so easily claim the same fame right now. Oh sure, we could both cite dozens of cases where an incursis owned a kestrel, or a thorax owned a Carc, or X battleship took on two Carc's at once... But try it sometime... See how much harder you need to work for your kills in other ships, compaired to what you have to do for them now. Anyway we could argue this till the cows come home... You might even challenge me to a frigate duel or some other nonsense... If it's just for fun, I might gladly accept as well so long as it's not to prove a point. As it stands right now, things are not even. you could say that I just need skill, or that the others need skill ETC. Let me ask you... How much skill does it take to fire off a volley of cruise missiles? How much more luck do I need to evade all of those and still get in a position to harm you? I agree 100% that CCP needs to be careful with this change, or yes, missiles will become underpowered... But most of you arn't even concerned with that... All many of you can see is that your gank ship is being balanced and you don't like it. For the noobs, you don't know any better... you think that what your Kestrel carc can do is no better than what other peoples ships can do. you havn't seen the difference in action, you havn't tried other ships. If most of you would go read the forum for the new turret changes, and see the sheer volume of people who are against those changes and read WHY they are against the turret changes, you will see why this missile rebalancing is in order... If these missile changes don't occur, and the turret changes DO occur... You will see worse flaming and whining than now... and some of it might even come from YOU. Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Rikon	Posted - 2004.05.12 22:03:00 - [50] Personally I use a kestrel a lot, never gate ganked anyone but from sounds of it, a lot of people think all kestrel users are gate gankers, guess must mean that we are all pirates as well then. Agree with no cruise missiles on frigates, but removing heavies as well I don't like the idea, even on kestrel standard launchers only held 2 heavies each, and usually one of your launchers would have to have defenders if going against a missile user anyways. I was getting a several cruisers ready to use with cruise missiles, but seems that is gonna a complete waste of time. I doubt the cruiser is gonna be much fun or use with its slow speed and restriction to just heavy missiles, would probably be dead before missiles even get close to a NPC missile target. Anyways will have to see how it goes when these changes come in, they probably will because seems this game has a lot of people who would rather have stuff 'nerfed' than work out how to get around the problem without drastic changes to peoples preference on weapons. Originally by: Heine Shaver No more passive cargo scanning and getting Bs Unlimited bps for little or no work!! That sucks, I didn't even have a complete set of bs Lvl 2 bps yet. Actually if they made cargo or ship scanning an aggressive act that would of probably stopped a lot of the gate ganking in high sec space, as they would have to take a chance the ship they hit actually had some cargo. Plus with no cruise missiles would of probably not made it that worth while a venture, unless they had a lot of ships they didnt mind wasting.
Cinc	Posted - 2004.05.12 22:41:00 - [51] In a nutshell, I see this change somewhat gravitating power to larger ships. And why not. A battleship should be large and in charge. It SHOULD take several frigates to be a threat to a cruiser and more so to challenge a battleship captain. Conversely there SHOULD be specialty ships out there that aren't a match in size to larger ships but that can pose a viable threat. Where to draw the line? How to balance it? I don't have a good answer at the moment. I currently pilot a Carac and will definitely be adversly affected. So be it. I'll adapt and keep using it or find a new ship to captain that's more to my liking. Endless griping about the situation is pointless.
McWatt	Posted - 2004.05.13 07:30:00 - [52] Edited by: McWatt on 13/05/2004 07:31:42 Originally by: Armin Chamberlain In your face, McWatt! Hahahaha, guess you gotta find other exploits now! anything you got to say? facts: * high sec is already too safe. hurrah for afk travel. * there are clever and stupid changes. the trouble was use of too heavy missiles against to light targets. it s not addressed by this change. * i guess we ll simply wait till the whole change is online. we ve yet to see the big picture.
Kalast Raven	Posted - 2004.05.13 11:17:00 - [53] Josh - Rocket Launcher is being nerfed to having a 10 second rate of fire. There goes the chances of using rockets to achieve significant damage. And the standard launcher (which can fire light missiles) will have a rof of 15 seconds. Basically missile frigs will be quite useless, so get your taranis ready. ------- K. Raven
Mephisha	Posted - 2004.05.13 11:28:00 - [54] Originally by: Rikon I was getting a several cruisers ready to use with cruise missiles, but seems that is gonna a complete waste of time. I doubt the cruiser is gonna be much fun or use with its slow speed and restriction to just heavy missiles, would probably be dead before missiles even get close to a NPC missile target. I don't agree ... i am only 6 weeks into the game and i can take out all lvl 3 NPC rats thrown at me in a caracal with heavy missiles Had a very tough fight against a guristas infiltrator(?), 75K rat fire-ing cataclysm cruise missiles. He got me down to 35% structural but i did win. Maybe the devs should look into options for specialised missiles boats to equip 1 or 2 launchers for missile type 1 level beyond normal limits. Maybe even at the expense of euiping other launchers. For example. A caracal can equip 5 heavy launchers. Say a siege launcher for cruise missiles would require 2 hi slots in a cruiser then you could opt for 2 x Cruise and 1 x Heavy. Which should not upset the balance ... ------------------------------------------------ I have seen carebears with claws and PvP-Lords hiding in high sec space. So AWAY with all those terms. We are ALL citizens of EVE.
Demangel	Posted - 2004.05.13 11:35:00 - [55] An interesting thought accured to me very recently... If you have even bothered to notice that turrets are also about to get a major change, you might have noticed that even small turrets will have a harder time hitting frigates, especialy MWD'ed frigates! This would mean in application that Turrets will be doing LESS damage over time on average than they do now, no matter what class we're talking about. Now, Considering the rocket ROF, and considering the new flight speed of all missiles, is it thus possible that said missiles will now be doing a similar amount of damage as a turret over time? Without having to do any math, the theory itself seems sound. So all thats left for all of you unhappy people is to test the changes and see what has really changed. You might discover yourself in this situation: BS pilot "Crap my turrets can't hit that MWD'D frig no matter what I do, Nobodies got a web! somebody help!" Your wingman "I'll get em, I got blasters!" Zap Zap Zap: The light ion blaster barely scratches bob doing 0 damage. Zap Zap Zap: you miss bob completely. Zap Zap Zap: you hit Bob for 30 points of damage! Wingman: "WAIT CRAP I'm missing most of my shots! What do I do!?" You : "Ahh what the hey... Might as well fire off a few missiles before I cancel my account... it's obvious EVE is broken now..." Whoosh, POW! you: "It hit! It hit easily! and he wasn't even webbed!" Wingman and Bs pilot: "KEEP SHOOTING!" Whoosh pow! 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 Woosh POW (repeat) Wingman: "Damn Those things came in handy! Guess they didn't get nerfed afterall! did you hit with every shot? what kind of damage did you get." You: "Not much better damage than I expected... but yes I did hit with almost every shot, but it was ok I guess. how about you?" Wingman "Bah... I did about half what I normaly do I think if you average it all up, I missed half my shots easily! I normaly hit much more often on an un-webbed frig like that, it's never wonderful, but this was BAD... I bet I did about the same damage as you did..." Everyone laughs... As the manner in which people play EVE becomes ten times more complex and fun for everyone. Anyway thats how I hope all this will turn out. As I have said ten times before... Rather than deciding EVE is about to end... Why not go help test the damn proposed changes and make sure they don't break the game? Most of you are already assuming the changes are set in stone! Any Dev will tell you they will need major tweaking before they go live... and probably some tweaking after. Please... Try to look at this from the bigger picture wouldya? Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Mephisha	Posted - 2004.05.13 11:35:00 - [56] Edited by: Mephisha on 13/05/2004 11:37:05 Originally by: McWatt * high sec is already too safe. hurrah for afk travel. * there are clever and stupid changes. the trouble was use of too heavy missiles against to light targets. it s not addressed by this change. * i guess we ll simply wait till the whole change is online. we ve yet to see the big picture.[/quote 1. Why is that so big a problem? 2. I DOES adress it. Heavier missiles will have trouble hitting small and fast targets just as for big guns. So it will open up some form of "level based" PvP. A BS will have trouble one-hit-killing a frigate or a cruiser and frigs won't do enough damage to really scare a BS. So we will see more battles between ships of the same categorie. I do see a small issue with tactics in mixed fleet battles though, where 5 frigs could destroy a BS escort without too much fear of the BS itself (unless it is fitted for anti-frig fighting). It does not have to be a big issue though ... just have to wait and see. 3. Agree ------------------------------------------------ I have seen carebears with claws and PvP-Lords hiding in high sec space. So AWAY with all those terms. We are ALL citizens of EVE.
Mned Graydroggen	Posted - 2004.05.16 11:03:00 - [57] Originally by: Mephisha Originally by: Rikon I was getting a several cruisers ready to use with cruise missiles, but seems that is gonna a complete waste of time. I doubt the cruiser is gonna be much fun or use with its slow speed and restriction to just heavy missiles, would probably be dead before missiles even get close to a NPC missile target. I don't agree ... i am only 6 weeks into the game and i can take out all lvl 3 NPC rats thrown at me in a caracal with heavy missiles I agree with Mephisha. Using a Celestis for my L3 combat agent. Using only heavies as missiles (2 launchers) and doing just fine. Its hard but thats why I started using the ship in the first place. And yes I also have 3 250mm's fitted. am abit worried about the rof rate thing I hear here though. /emote goes to read up on the ships and modules..
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2004.05.16 11:58:00 - [58] Love the changes ^^ In fact CCP in general really rocks these days.. http://eve.klaki.net/
Demangel	Posted - 2004.05.16 12:11:00 - [59] People should RUN not walk to the EVE-I site or the Patch thread for some good data on the changes. The Missile damage changes look much more balanced than before, and appear on paper to be much more similar to a turret of equal class in terms of Damage over time. Add to that the fact that the missiles will be faster and more agile, and MWD won't be as useful for dodging missiles as before, or so it seems. So that, along with the relay nerf should make MWD use more in line with how I think CCP intended... More for short hops to close gaps, and evade things briefly. IE more like the Picard manuever from STNG. Though I hope it's not made too useless... MWD Dogfights can be a blast anyway More testing and tweaking needs to be done, but already some of the naysayers have begun to see the light. God, I hated how half the whines came from people who just heard that missiles where being changed ( I wouldn't even call it a true nerf, they got some good changes from this too), and didn't really know anything else and just screamed bloody murder about it LOL Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Totty	Posted - 2004.05.16 22:22:00 - [60] Originally by: splattercat Humm....indys are A-slow B-soft... = ez target..y not just make indys stronger? so it takes the same to kill one as a cruser,if it takes a team of 4 +kes and 1 hauler to take down a indy in "safe space" thats the way to ballance that problem IMO if u lose 4 ships a time and take a sec hit so u cant use the alt for long and have to keep retraining teams it will put ppl off ( i hope).. (also help them stop geting killed in belts so ez). As for frigs and cruse.. i can take a kes with cruse out in a rifter np and live.. Make indy's tougher? Man thats such a simple balancing solution and would keep everyone happy, I reckon.

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