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ARGH69	Posted - 2008.06.16 05:21:00 - [1] -changing a skill or fitting your ship takes 20 minutes in jita with only 459 players in system. -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. -instead of spending your income on needed sever hardware to run your game properly you inject the player base with more "content". -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it.
DubanFP Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.16 05:25:00 - [2] Edited by: DubanFP on 16/06/2008 05:35:50 Originally by: ARGH69 -changing a skill or fitting your ship takes 20 minutes in jita with only 459 players in system. -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. -instead of spending your income on needed sever hardware to run your game properly you inject the player base with more "content". -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it. See kids. This is what you call "ignorance". Look i'm going to summ up what's been said a billion times before. It's not like you can just throw money at the problem and expect it to be fixed. I'm going to end now before I wind up beating a dead horse. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.06.16 05:27:00 - [3] Hi whiner, your post is pathetic. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2008.06.16 05:30:00 - [4] Ever since factional warfare I seem to get more lag in same systems with same player count as before the expansion. And i agree - lag sucks. guide to game time codes
Axel Yulaw Unseen Eye of Talos	Posted - 2008.06.16 05:34:00 - [5] You know, every day I see "lag" posts. But my question is, have you considered the fact that perhaps your PC / Mac just sucks? I have a standard broadband connection (10meg pipe) and your standard dual core PC with a mid ranged PCI-E card. Fleet battles, 200+ ships on screen, no problem. Running the Trinity graphics. Jita never gives me issues. So without trying to sound like I am bragging about anything, I think the problems here are users rigs, and that is all. Unseen Eye of Talos . Recruiting
Xparky Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.06.16 05:35:00 - [6] Edited by: Xparky on 16/06/2008 05:35:47 Hardware Upgrades Summary [June 2008 - Ongoing] Infiniband Internal Test Cluster is live, development ongoing [June 2008 - Ongoing] Cisco virtualisation project underway (speeds up EVE-Online.com) [September 2007] 420 CPU cores housed in IBM X-SERIES 3950 and BladeCenter servers as at 6/9/07 [August 2007] According to Oveur, CCP has deployed a fourth RamSan-400 taking SSD capacity to 256GB [July 2007] Database upgraded to Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Enterprise SP2 [July 2007] Core engine upgrade to Python 2.5 with Stackless 3.1 [March 2007] CCP confirms they are trying to move everything to a 64 bit architecture [November 2006] Third RamSan-400 deployed, multi-homing upgrades, cluster confirmed at 168 nodes. [March 2006] Second RamSan-400 deployed [November 2005] Oveur Lag Explanation - EVE Architecture 101 [October 2005] First RamSan-400 deployed CCP can you get some Tera-RamSan's pretty please! - "The Tera-RamSan holds between 384 and 1024 GB of fast, non-volatile DDRRAM storage in three to 8 independent SSD modules, each containing its own wide array of redundant high-availability features" Taken from here .
Arvald Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.16 05:39:00 - [7] All i have to say to the op is ............ Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat(or as i like to call it: Just because you are paranoid dont mean there isnt a invissible demon about to eat your face)
Nitakko Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.16 05:41:00 - [8] Originally by: ARGH69 Whining and complaining with no proof to back up accusations OP is a complete failure.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:09:00 - [9] Originally by: Xparky Edited by: Xparky on 16/06/2008 05:36:42 Originally by: "ARGH69" -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it. You suck. Hardware Upgrades Summary [June 2008 - Ongoing] Infiniband Internal Test Cluster is live, development ongoing [June 2008 - Ongoing] Cisco virtualisation project underway (speeds up EVE-Online.com) [September 2007] 420 CPU cores housed in IBM X-SERIES 3950 and BladeCenter servers as at 6/9/07 [August 2007] According to Oveur, CCP has deployed a fourth RamSan-400 taking SSD capacity to 256GB [July 2007] Database upgraded to Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Enterprise SP2 [July 2007] Core engine upgrade to Python 2.5 with Stackless 3.1 [March 2007] CCP confirms they are trying to move everything to a 64 bit architecture [November 2006] Third RamSan-400 deployed, multi-homing upgrades, cluster confirmed at 168 nodes. [March 2006] Second RamSan-400 deployed [November 2005] Oveur Lag Explanation - EVE Architecture 101 [October 2005] First RamSan-400 deployed CCP can you get some Tera-RamSan's pretty please! - "The Tera-RamSan holds between 384 and 1024 GB of fast, non-volatile DDRRAM storage in three to 8 independent SSD modules, each containing its own wide array of redundant high-availability features" Taken from here most of these have nothing to do with hardware upgrades... "Early next year we are looking at replacing all our servers for the third time with some next-generation hardware, utilizing tech such as Infiniband so we can start doing something like RDMA. " is a bit overdue (August 2007). How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
DubanFP Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Pan Crastus most of these have nothing to do with hardware upgrades... "Early next year we are looking at replacing all our servers for the third time with some next-generation hardware, utilizing tech such as Infiniband so we can start doing something like RDMA. " is a bit overdue (August 2007). Ok, there's no way you could not be a troll. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
Napro	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:14:00 - [11] can i has stuff?
Napro	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:16:00 - [12] Originally by: DubanFP Originally by: Pan Crastus most of these have nothing to do with hardware upgrades... "Early next year we are looking at replacing all our servers for the third time with some next-generation hardware, utilizing tech such as Infiniband so we can start doing something like RDMA. " is a bit overdue (August 2007). Ok, there's no way you could not be a troll. explain how he's wrong. from the "Hardware upgrade list" of 11 updates, I only count 5 actual hardware upgrades
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:22:00 - [13] Originally by: DubanFP Originally by: Pan Crastus most of these have nothing to do with hardware upgrades... "Early next year we are looking at replacing all our servers for the third time with some next-generation hardware, utilizing tech such as Infiniband so we can start doing something like RDMA. " is a bit overdue (August 2007). Ok, there's no way you could not be a troll. I'm not a troll, I'm merely pointing out that the quoted things were mostly random stuff and not about hardware. I am affected by lag in 0.0 frequently (like everyone else in the fleet, with < 50 in local) even though the concurrent players haven't increased significantly since early 2007 and I agree with the OP's general sentiment that CCP isn't putting their money where their mouth is. Even you fanbois should acknowledge that there is far too much moaning about lag by those who haven't given up yet. How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Xparky Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:25:00 - [14] Yes there are both hardware and software upgrades, but you're missing the point. The OP stated CCP hasn't upgraded the hardware since the beginning of 2006, which is false. .
Chzandri	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:40:00 - [15] Originally by: Axel Yulaw You know, every day I see "lag" posts. But my question is, have you considered the fact that perhaps your PC / Mac just sucks? I have a standard broadband connection (10meg pipe) and your standard dual core PC with a mid ranged PCI-E card. Fleet battles, 200+ ships on screen, no problem. Running the Trinity graphics. Jita never gives me issues. So without trying to sound like I am bragging about anything, I think the problems here are users rigs, and that is all. If what you're saying is true CCP would never reimburse ships due to server-side lag. Which in my experience they do and quite often.
Neth'Rae Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:43:00 - [16] hi american, your president is pathetic! Request signatures at EVE-GFX
DubanFP Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Pan Crastus ...I'm not a troll... ...Even you fanbois... I LOLed. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.06.16 07:29:00 - [18] Originally by: ARGH69 -changing a skill or fitting your ship takes 20 minutes in jita with only 459 players in system. -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. -instead of spending your income on needed sever hardware to run your game properly you inject the player base with more "content". -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it. yes... in america you can fix problems by throwing cash at something to fix it.... in reality it does not work. ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
4IROW Aliastra	Posted - 2008.06.16 07:39:00 - [19] ... nono, software upgrades don't have anything to do with overall better performances... face -> desk
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.06.16 07:45:00 - [20] Originally by: ARGH69 -changing a skill or fitting your ship takes 20 minutes in jita with only 459 players in system. -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. -instead of spending your income on needed sever hardware to run your game properly you inject the player base with more "content". -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it. Your post is also pathetic. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.16 07:57:00 - [21] FAIL
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.06.16 08:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Riho Originally by: ARGH69 -changing a skill or fitting your ship takes 20 minutes in jita with only 459 players in system. -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. -instead of spending your income on needed sever hardware to run your game properly you inject the player base with more "content". -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it. yes... in america you can fix problems by throwing cash at something to fix it.... in reality it does not work. Yes it does. Sometimes it means you have to make radical changes (throw away Python), hire new people etc., but it usually works if the goals are realistic (yes, you can't invent cold fusion with money). Most other current MMOs have proper documentation, almost no lag, a polished UI etc. and the fanbois usually blame it on "the other MMO maker having much more money". How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.16 08:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Riho Originally by: ARGH69 -changing a skill or fitting your ship takes 20 minutes in jita with only 459 players in system. -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. -instead of spending your income on needed sever hardware to run your game properly you inject the player base with more "content". -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it. yes... in america you can fix problems by throwing cash at something to fix it.... in reality it does not work. Yes it does. Sometimes it means you have to make radical changes (throw away Python), hire new people etc., but it usually works if the goals are realistic (yes, you can't invent cold fusion with money). Most other current MMOs have proper documentation, almost no lag, a polished UI etc. and the fanbois usually blame it on "the other MMO maker having much more money". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO LAG!?!?!?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.06.16 08:24:00 - [24] Originally by: MotherMoon HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO LAG!?!?!?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I wrote "almost no lag" and that's probably not doing them justice since the horrendous lag that manifests in EVE sometimes is an entirely different kind. A bit of stutter or 1s lag is bearable, but in EVE we have to deal with anything between 2 minute traffic controls and 3 minute module lag and 15 minute blackscreens. How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
ZinderX500 RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.16 08:30:00 - [25] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Riho Originally by: ARGH69 -changing a skill or fitting your ship takes 20 minutes in jita with only 459 players in system. -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. -instead of spending your income on needed sever hardware to run your game properly you inject the player base with more "content". -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it. yes... in america you can fix problems by throwing cash at something to fix it.... in reality it does not work. Yes it does. Sometimes it means you have to make radical changes (throw away Python), hire new people etc., but it usually works if the goals are realistic (yes, you can't invent cold fusion with money). Most other current MMOs have proper documentation, almost no lag, a polished UI etc. and the fanbois usually blame it on "the other MMO maker having much more money". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO LAG!?!?!?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I never had 25-45 more frames when hiding my UI in Lineage 2/WOW/Cabal. (i guess that the User Interface of EVE is **** up a bit) _____________________ Shelley Godfrey: Have you lost your mind!? Baltar**: That's an interesting question, and one I pose to myself on a regular basis.
4IROW Aliastra	Posted - 2008.06.16 08:31:00 - [26] Edited by: 4IROW on 16/06/2008 08:31:51 ugh... Did it ever come into your mind, that you can't compare eve with other mmos? Other mmos usually have only a couple hundert or a few thousand people on one server. Yes, WoW has maybe hundertthousand people online on the evenings but these people are distributed on multiple servers. And concerning the ping time, this is usually not CCPs fault but you have to blame your provider... shrug
Digital Solaris	Posted - 2008.06.16 08:39:00 - [27] Originally by: 4IROW And concerning the ping time, this is usually not CCPs fault but you have to blame your provider... shrug Which is likely american.. ~No, you are not special. I insult everyone.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.06.16 08:43:00 - [28] Originally by: 4IROW Edited by: 4IROW on 16/06/2008 08:31:51 ugh... Did it ever come into your mind, that you can't compare eve with other mmos? Other mmos usually have only a couple hundert or a few thousand people on one server. Yes, WoW has maybe hundertthousand people online on the evenings but these people are distributed on multiple servers. Only a true fanboi can write "you can't compare eve with other mmos" and compare it to WoW in the same paragraph. ;-) How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.16 08:45:00 - [29] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: MotherMoon HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO LAG!?!?!?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I wrote "almost no lag" and that's probably not doing them justice since the horrendous lag that manifests in EVE sometimes is an entirely different kind. A bit of stutter or 1s lag is bearable, but in EVE we have to deal with anything between 2 minute traffic controls and 3 minute module lag and 15 minute blackscreens. remembers 3 minute walking lag in WoW just trying to walk through a major city. remmebrs walking thought main trading hub in everquest. remembers large scale battles in SWG with up to 5 mins of waiting for your attacks to come through as hit. Gunzonline lag oh dying 1 min after you get shot. wows loading screens going up to 10 mins in busy areas. almost no lag is just as bad as saying no lag. every mmorpg has lag sorry but it's 100% true, go to any other mmorpg game forum and you'll find one post about dying to lag on every page. These kids, I swear, acting like eve is some kind of exception to the rule of online gaming.
Tippia School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.16 08:53:00 - [30] Originally by: ZinderX500 I never had 25-45 more frames when hiding my UI in Lineage 2/WOW/Cabal. You're talking about frame rate – something completely different than lag. Originally by: Pan Crastus Only a true fanboi can write "you can't compare eve with other mmos" and compare it to WoW in the same paragraph. ;-) …except, of course, that he didn't compare them – he showed why they are completely different beasts.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.16 08:57:00 - [31] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ZinderX500 I never had 25-45 more frames when hiding my UI in Lineage 2/WOW/Cabal. You're talking about frame rate û something completely different than lag. This the only thing I could honestly complain about in eve is the way the UI works. Don't know why it does it but it has be shot and killed :P it might be the shiny real time lighting on it though :P but like you said it's not lag, fps and lag are not the same thing. thus why I didn't bring it up.
Jimbo SF Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.06.16 09:02:00 - [32] Edited by: Jimbo SF on 16/06/2008 09:02:31 Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ZinderX500 I never had 25-45 more frames when hiding my UI in Lineage 2/WOW/Cabal. You're talking about frame rate û something completely different than lag. This the only thing I could honestly complain about in eve is the way the UI works. Don't know why it does it but it has be shot and killed :P it might be the shiny real time lighting on it though :P but like you said it's not lag, fps and lag are not the same thing. thus why I didn't bring it up. For 2 things i can complain about eve. (yoda) 1. ****ty UI. 2. Stupid nerfing on random things , cause some idiots are whining cause of their stupidity. ( i''ll probably think of more later but nvm ) ..but let's continue to be on topic -ZinderX500 , posted with alt. -- Hmmmm it seems that ZinderX500 forgot to select his main , before posting in the forums.
Xparky Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.06.16 09:03:00 - [33] You accomplish nothing with this kind of threads. If there is lag people will feel it even you post about it or not, and CCP will work on it even if you post about it or not. So you can a) Quit! (can i have your stuff?) or b) Keep playing. We don't care which of a) or b) you choose, but posting on the forum about lag has been done over and over and over. You're bringing nothing new to the subject. What, you think if you stop posting about lag CCP will stop working to fix it ? Or maybe you think the more you post the faster they work ? Lol. .
Tippia School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.16 09:08:00 - [34] Originally by: Xparky What, you think if you stop posting about lag CCP will stop working to fix it ? Or maybe you think the more you post the faster they work ? Lol. /thread.
Tai Paktu Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.06.16 09:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Pan Crastus Most other current MMOs have proper documentation, almost no lag, a polished UI etc. and the fanbois usually blame it on "the other MMO maker having much more money". Most other MMOs dont have upwards of 40,000 accounts active concurrently on a shared cluster. CCP has stated repeatedly they're looking into the UI and fixes/improvements for it. If I wasn't tired, I'd find and link the CCP website offering a job to a UI designer. Yeah, there's lag. Making a thread in GD about it does nothing to solve it. Does lag make the game unplayable at times? Yeah, I've had times when module lag in Jita or in 50+ person fights gets bad. I feel sorry for the people in 400+ fleet fights who desynch jumping in and trying to load grid or who blackscreen while undocking. All we can do is hope it's being worked on and ask for updates from time to time (or take the time to look for them instead of just posting a whine thread). Oh, and not trying to troll or flame here but if the lag gets too unbearable, contract me your stuff and cancel your account, that'll reduce lag. P.S. Please don't put the contract up in Jita. It gets laggy sometimes. ______ http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG
Tonksai	Posted - 2008.06.16 09:15:00 - [36] Originally by: Axel Yulaw You know, every day I see "lag" posts. But my question is, have you considered the fact that perhaps your PC / Mac just sucks? I have a standard broadband connection (10meg pipe) and your standard dual core PC with a mid ranged PCI-E card. Fleet battles, 200+ ships on screen, no problem. Running the Trinity graphics. Jita never gives me issues. So without trying to sound like I am bragging about anything, I think the problems here are users rigs, and that is all. i have a top of the range gaming pc, an 8 meg connection, and i admit that on return to high sec yesterday i found that lag was rediculous. i used to fly in mission hubs with no problems, but yesterday it took 30 seconds for commands to go through in the bigger lag spikes. although you are an idiot for posting saying there is no issue right now and ppl need better equipment to play eve, so is the op as lag is always an issue after major patches and in time ccp sort it out. so stfu about this topic
Rashmika Clavain Aliastra	Posted - 2008.06.16 09:22:00 - [37] I was flying missions in and around Dodixie over the weekend and had no problems at all. shrug
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.06.16 09:55:00 - [38] Originally by: Xparky You accomplish nothing with this kind of threads. If there is lag people will feel it even you post about it or not, and CCP will work on it even if you post about it or not. So you can a) Quit! (can i have your stuff?) or b) Keep playing. We don't care which of a) or b) you choose, but posting on the forum about lag has been done over and over and over. You're bringing nothing new to the subject. What, you think if you stop posting about lag CCP will stop working to fix it ? Or maybe you think the more you post the faster they work ? Lol. They might give it higher priority if the complaints persist. It wouldn't be the first time they (surprisingly) listened to their community (remember the pending Carrier nerf?). How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Hellspawn666 Master Miners Intruders.	Posted - 2008.06.16 10:00:00 - [39] The thing is the lag isnt so bad, and it has improved alot since the old eve when 20vs20 would create 10 minute module lag and the client was less intensive(but less pretty too i might add). You cant compare jita with anywhere else in eve tbh since the lag is different. When i was in bob we generally had to fight in lagfests which many would complain to be unplayable but the truth is that if you just be patient and wait for it to clear up most the time the server will recover whereas before the server just blew. About 90% of the time people complain about lag during fleet fights its clientside lag brought on by trying to load so many things on grid often this can happen to really 1337 computers if you dont have the right settings. Its true that playing eve on max settings in a huge capital slugfest with 100 carriers = pretty much client suicide but thats not to say that ccp's servers suck. The thing is ive actually played quite a few MMO's and whenever you get a group together the server will lag often alot more then eve. In situations where there is more then one server, such as WOW its pop luck which server you pick if itl be reliable tbh. Saying that i agree with the above posts that such comparisons cannot be drawn since A) I cant think of any MMO like eve in the sense its rediculas to compair a multi-server MMO which deals with only a few hundred at a time to EVE, B) Every MMO has more or less information which is worked out clientside. CCP has stated time and time again that they dont switch around people so argueing that releasing new content instead of fixing servers is the problem is rediculas since those are completly different teams. Some people seem to think you can just fix things by adding more nodes but unless your an expert in these matters (i dont event pretend to be) then as far i understand it they have done to their limit. Adding more then one node per popular system would mean redesigning the whole way the server works. If the OP would like to make some suggestions to CCP about how they can change their servers to make less lag then feel free. Dont accuse them of not trying, also will people please stop trying to make this into an american vs world thing again. Yes we get hes american and in this case fitting in a sterotype but lets not be ignorant and dismiss his arguements on that basis.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.06.16 10:00:00 - [40] Originally by: Tai Paktu Most other MMOs dont have upwards of 40,000 accounts active concurrently on a shared cluster. Many do and their clusters are "shared" in varying degrees. Let's not get too technical, that's not the point - unless you're trying to claim that the design of EVE requires 15 minute blackscreens. Quote: CCP has stated repeatedly they're looking into the UI and fixes/improvements for it. If I wasn't tired, I'd find and link the CCP website offering a job to a UI designer. Not looking hard enough I suppose. Quote: Yeah, there's lag. Making a thread in GD about it does nothing to solve it. It's neither the purpose of GD nor the job of the people who post here to solve EVE's technical issues. People post on matters that they're concerned/interested about. Quote: Does lag make the game unplayable at times? Yeah, I've had times when module lag in Jita or in 50+ person fights gets bad. I feel sorry for the people in 400+ fleet fights who desynch jumping in and trying to load grid or who blackscreen while undocking. All we can do is hope it's being worked on and ask for updates from time to time (or take the time to look for them instead of just posting a whine thread). No, we can actually post and hope that people at CCP do not forget that this is why people are leaving, not because they stealth nerf things or because the Minmatar storyline sucks or whatever. Quote: Oh, and not trying to troll or flame here but if the lag gets too unbearable, contract me your stuff and cancel your account, that'll reduce lag. P.S. Please don't put the contract up in Jita. It gets laggy sometimes. Don't give me funny ideas. I might just start a daily quiz in Jita local with good prizes... How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Guntaro	Posted - 2008.06.21 00:21:00 - [41] The problem is Eve is more complicated than the servers can handle. They found out with the drones, then the bookmarks but its not enough. One day they will realize that Eve needs to be scaled down in complexity. Reduce the items, market, etc. etc. by half and maybe the lag will be reasonable.
Viqtoria Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.21 00:21:00 - [42] what you want more lag, is that what the OP is saying
Doddy Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.06.21 00:31:00 - [43] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: MotherMoon HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO LAG!?!?!?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I wrote "almost no lag" and that's probably not doing them justice since the horrendous lag that manifests in EVE sometimes is an entirely different kind. A bit of stutter or 1s lag is bearable, but in EVE we have to deal with anything between 2 minute traffic controls and 3 minute module lag and 15 minute blackscreens. To be honest i haven't had the sort of lag you talk about in many months, and i fly regular fleet combat. I have seen a steady improvement through my whole time in eve.
Sidus Isaacs	Posted - 2008.06.21 00:37:00 - [44] Originally by: ARGH69 -changing a skill or fitting your ship takes 20 minutes in jita with only 459 players in system. -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. -instead of spending your income on needed sever hardware to run your game properly you inject the player base with more "content". -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it. Hehehehehe. I got a got a good comp, my lag i s nill!
Sidus Isaacs	Posted - 2008.06.21 00:39:00 - [45] Originally by: Guntaro One day they will realize that Eve needs to be scaled down in complexity. Reduce the items, market, etc. etc. by half and maybe the lag will be reasonable. One day comps will be better you know, "scaling" down the game does not help it at all.
Yarr2K 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.06.21 01:06:00 - [46] Heh. We haven't had an alt post Jita flame fest in ages. Wondered when the professional trollers would deign to grace us with their august personages again.
Maylon Ezora	Posted - 2008.06.21 01:17:00 - [47] Originally by: ARGH69 in jita Well there's your problem. (mythbuster style) I lag really bad in jita. solution? don't go to jita.
Taedrin Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.06.21 02:21:00 - [48] Originally by: ARGH69 -changing a skill or fitting your ship takes 20 minutes in jita with only 459 players in system. Interestingly enough, this has never happened to me, even when there were >600 players in Jita. Quote: -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. Also never happened to me. I live in Michigan, USA. Quote: -instead of spending your income on needed sever hardware to run your game properly you inject the player base with more "content". Contrary to popular belief, CCP does not pay their developers by the hour. Their developers are salaried workers, and as such, get paid whether they are developing "content" or not. And unless CCP fires all of their devs, they have to pay them regardless of what they do. It would be in CCP's best interests to have them do something. Preferably the thing they are best at. IE, artists should draw stuff. Marketers should come up with advertisements. Accounting should balance the books. Programmers should program. Game designers should come up with new content. Etc etc... What I'm trying to say here: NOT DEVELOPING MORE CONTENT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN CCP HAS MORE MONEY TO BUY NEW HARDWARE, AND EVEN IF CCP DID BUY NEW HARDWARE DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE WORLD CURRENTLY HAS ENOUGH TECHNOLOGY TO SUPPORT THE LOADS THAT TRANQUILITY HAS TO DEAL WITH DAILY!!!!! Quote: -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it. As someone already mentioned, CCP has added several pieces of hardware since June, 2006, along with several software upgrades which have, believe it or not, greatly improved the performance of TQ. In conclusion, stop posting and making us Americans look like ignorant stupid people. CCP is working on an implementation of RDMA. This sort of thing takes a long time. Years even. Not a couple months. Unless of course CCP shut down TQ permanently until the upgrades were complete. Then it could probably be finished much quicker. But somehow I don't think CCP would survive very long as a company if they decided to shut down their sole source of income while they upgraded it to reduce lag. If you want a lag free game, go to the nearest sharded MMO. I suggest WoW. That one seems to be pretty popular these days.
Suze'Rain	Posted - 2008.06.21 13:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Pan Crastus Only a true fanboi can write "you can't compare eve with other mmos" and compare it to WoW in the same paragraph. ;-) Clearly, I'm going to be dismissed as a "fanboi"(sic) by Pan Crastus for writing this... :P A conventional MMO server model consists of a number of players, let's say for simplicity that it's The Ringcraft Online Lineage Legends(tm), which conveniently has had a peak concurrent user total of 42,000 players with around 150k subscribers. it's coded in it's own custom language, Stackless Monty. now T.R.O.L.L is pretty much like every MMO (that is'nt EVE), and is coded as a sharded server system. Inside each shard, a single set of servers operates each shard for perhaps 1,000 or maybe 5,000 players. This means on starting their character, the player will get to choose if they want to play in Twinkleelf Pixieglade shard, or Gnashing Angstbiter shard, or one of the other 10-20odd shards running. Like most MMOs, it is land-based gameplay consisting of your avatars walking around, completing quests for killing 8 snarflebeasts for their nostril-hair. Conveniently, the land areas are designed with impassable terrain, allows zones of play to be placed onto separate cores in the server. From there, instances for each dungeon and area are run inside those zones on further separate cores, easily spreading those few thousand player pings back and forth down to perhaps a hundred per region. furthermore, to make things even easier, he engines is coded with a dynamic LOD code that culls all data going to a client engine outside of X distance, matched to the view distance of the clientside graphical engine renderer. Now look at Eve. It takes the rules of MMO architecture, and skips gleefully into the sunset cackling madly. it doesn't shard, meaning that the entire 42,000 players are hosted on one, single server. Currently, each solar system is assigned to a node, a CPU core. Some systems, like Jita are given a dedicated core. others, like AB-123 and ZY-987 in 0.0 are assigned to a node. the two systems could be next door, the two systems could be on opposite ends of the galaxy, in practical terms, it's irrelevant. However, what this means is that all players in a single area are interconnected. as the chat (local) and other details are in constant feedback, LOD'ing the data is slightly harder whilst in-space in a system, but still quite easy. However, those 42k, in one server, interrelating 23/7, and in the case of jita, with well over 500 players in a single core trying to access the entire market etc, all at the same time. Have you ever tried to get a group of say, 500 friends to all login to any MMO game and to go join you in Pixieglade, or in Dwarfforge, or whatever fantasy name location in any game? Try it. if you can all stand together in one instance, one city centre, and hot have the server have heart failure (or the GMs ban you all for DDOSing them) then I'll kneel before your almighty, throbbing ping, and accept that clearly Eve is borked. So, is eve different? hell yes. Does that mean it's acceptable to have lag? no. Are CCP taking measures to solve that? damn right. stuff like infiniband AFIK has never been tried for a MMO game engine, CCP are attempting to create a supercomputer network the likes of which has never been approached in a MMO. The coders and technicians working on that are going into entirely uncharted design territory, a process that requires more hours of development than I want to think about. Eve is, in that, at the absolute forefront of virtual world development. Am I a fan? Maybe. If my heart weren't here with a goddess living in scotland, I'd have been on my knees offering to give Hilmar censored by every governemt in the world for a job. CCP, as a company are one of those few whose design principles are just right. The gameplay is'nt perfect, but the company's approach to design and solutions is the best I've ever seen.
Freya Runestone	Posted - 2008.06.21 14:03:00 - [50] Edited by: Freya Runestone on 21/06/2008 14:04:19 Originally by: Suze'Rain Originally by: Pan Crastus Only a true fanboi can write "you can't compare eve with other mmos" and compare it to WoW in the same paragraph. ;-) Stuff Amen Only thing you forgot to mention is than most of the lag is the players fault. It doesn't matter how great CCP's server hardware is. if it supports 2000 people in a single system with no lag. people will pile in 4000. or keep going UNTIL IT LAGS UNBEARABLY And then they will come complain about it to CCP. Basically, people are stupid
Jubeli Joint Espionage and Defence Industries	Posted - 2008.06.21 16:03:00 - [51] LAST!!! (ok.. i tried).. I only read the first post and the topic.. and I was about to say "wtf, someone that complains that there is TOO little lag, damn!" ..the lag is rather pathetic though, considering how wast the game is and i still have a smooth ride wiht 35k+ players online. Solution to your problem: Don't go to Jita Selling Nighthawks near you
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.21 16:14:00 - [52] Originally by: Axel Yulaw You know, every day I see "lag" posts. But my question is, have you considered the fact that perhaps your PC / Mac just sucks? I have a standard broadband connection (10meg pipe) and your standard dual core PC with a mid ranged PCI-E card. Fleet battles, 200+ ships on screen, no problem. Running the Trinity graphics. Jita never gives me issues. So without trying to sound like I am bragging about anything, I think the problems here are users rigs, and that is all. The day people realize that there 5-8 year old computer is out of date and stop blaming it on lag is the day one of the signs of the internet apoloclapse. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Epoh Umbrage Inc. Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.21 16:29:00 - [53] Actually I was in Jita earlier today with 600+ others and the lag was very reasonable. This is much better than the situation a few years (heck, even a few months) ago.
Grimpak The Republican 1st Strike Force	Posted - 2008.06.21 16:32:00 - [54] Originally by: Suze'Rain Originally by: Pan Crastus Only a true fanboi can write "you can't compare eve with other mmos" and compare it to WoW in the same paragraph. ;-) stuff /thread I also /facepalm at this thread --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Zinras Order of draugr	Posted - 2008.06.21 16:55:00 - [55] To everyone throwing rage fits and believing they can't play: Can I have your stuff? Clearly, the game is borked and you are wasting your money by renewing your subscription time and time again. So please quit and reduce overall lag in the game. Likewise, you may contract your stuff to me to prevent new items coming into the game (and creating more lag) by me buying them from NPCs when I could get it from you. Have a nice day Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
Tortun Nahme Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.21 17:22:00 - [56] Originally by: Yarr2K Heh. We haven't had an alt post Jita flame fest in ages. Wondered when the professional trollers would deign to grace us with their august personages again. sorry! I've been away Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Shintai Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.06.21 17:27:00 - [57] Originally by: ARGH69 -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. Even when I was in the poor Xinjiang province in China and out in the dessert I didnt even have 700ms pingtimes to EvE. More like 500-600 even tho it had to travel 3/4ths around the world through USA. Per haps you should consider a new ISP or stop your 500 P2P ****odownloads while you play eve. I¦m sure it would fix all your issues. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Guntaro	Posted - 2008.06.22 02:01:00 - [58] Edited by: Guntaro on 22/06/2008 02:01:22 Even as I write this I lost connection to jita. Jita is an essential part of a game that emphasizes the market, grinding isk so much that not going there at all is a great disadvantage to any player. It is not exactly that difficult a problem. If you cannot fix something by upgrading your servers, then the most logical solution would be to scale back the game's complexity.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.06.22 02:14:00 - [59] Originally by: Guntaro Jita is an essential part of a game that emphasizes the market, grinding isk so much that not going there at all is a great disadvantage to any player. / not in Jita // just fine, thanks for asking ___________________________________________
Feng Schui Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.06.22 02:16:00 - [60] hi argh69, your computer is pathetic! -changing a skill or fitting your ship takes 20 minutes in jita with only 459 players in system. (( Get a better cpu )) -american players dealing with 700 pings in 0.0 systems with 20 players is quite rediculous. (( Stop using dial-up? )) -instead of spending your income on needed sever hardware to run your game properly you inject the player base with more "content". (( Yes, because CCP controls the internet's infrastructure, I am sure of it! )) -it's been over 2 years since the last server upgrade. the client base has grown to a size that requires better hardware. deal with it. (( Don't read the devblogs, eh? )) Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Tippia School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.22 02:19:00 - [61] Originally by: Guntaro Jita is an essential part of a game that emphasizes the market, grinding isk so much that not going there at all is a great disadvantage to any player. …and the wonderful thing about EVE is that you don't have to be in Jita to play the Jita market.
Kobushi OCForums	Posted - 2008.06.22 02:23:00 - [62] lag lag lag one source that on one has talked about is you own setting, it's not because you can have missile effect, turret effect, drone trail, huge colortag, all brackets, 12 columns in overview, extra shadow(high), bloom(extreme), shader to a million bits with 3K bit alpha, 2680x1600 res widescreen and so forth that you should have them all on at max. That will generate a ton of lag strictly to your local client no other fault then your own "ooohhh shiny". My secondary computer runs a no frill no eyecandy and I barely lag at a 200+ fleet engagement or jita at 700+ is only a 30-60 sec lag on a sunday evening and that's with a 1mb/s connection and x1250 onboard video. Sure it's ugly as heck compared it eve at it's prettiest but then again I did kill a vaga in a caracal cause the other pilot lagged loading all the eye candy. Try lowering soem of the very ressources hungry features...it might just save your pod
spletch	Posted - 2008.06.22 03:15:00 - [63] CCP's lag is NOT pathetic. Far from it. Eve has excellent lag. Some of the best lag you're likely to get from an online game. I play quite a bit of Team Fortress 2, and you can go from server to server, hour after hour and not get any lag at all. Eve gives you lag by the bucket load. Lag fans are never disappointed with eve. Some of the best lag is to be found in Jita, and even a new player has access to Jita, so they can experience the lag from very early on in their character's development. As others have stated earlier in the thread, CCP have some AMAZING hardware to create the lag, so you can be sure that your lag is of the best possible quality. Worried about running out of lag? This can happen in some games, just when you're really enjoying a nice spell if laginess, they release a patch that sucks all the lag (and therefore all the joy) out of the game. Often, lag-starved players will resort to pouring orange juice (or other liquids) into their modem/router just to get the lag back up to an enjoyable level again. This isn't a worry with Eve. CCP have shown their commitment to lag time and again, patch after patch.
Kobushi OCForums	Posted - 2008.06.22 15:56:00 - [64] spletch your trolling is of superb quality, it's funny, not hiding under false pretents and is creative with a nice touch of irony and sarcasm. If more people would post like you the forums might be a good place to read... I,m sorry if if I say trolling but I'm short on words to describe this work of art, yes it's a stab at CCP and lag but it still leaves you with a smile and is actually tought provoking without being flamebait...
Sigma Dryke Blue. Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.06.22 16:33:00 - [65] Hi ARGH69, your post is pathetic!
Epidemis	Posted - 2008.06.22 16:48:00 - [66] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ZinderX500 I never had 25-45 more frames when hiding my UI in Lineage 2/WOW/Cabal. You're talking about frame rate û something completely different than lag. Originally by: Pan Crastus Only a true fanboi can write "you can't compare eve with other mmos" and compare it to WoW in the same paragraph. ;-) àexcept, of course, that he didn't compare them û he showed why they are completely different beasts. Regardless of what he tried to show, that is called a comparison.
Astria Tiphareth	Posted - 2008.06.22 17:11:00 - [67] Originally by: Suze'Rain Long stuff about MMO design & EVE There isn't an applaud emoticon, or I'd use it. Nicely written. It still amazes me that some people think Jita is the be-all and end-all of the EVE market, or wonder why when hundreds of people congregate there, the server might struggle just a teeny-tiny bit. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Araxmas Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.22 17:14:00 - [68] I've said it many times and i'll say it again... WHAT LAG? I get zero lag except when my computer decides to frack up. My computer is also some single core 2gb ram geforce 7 series piece of crap. Yet I can run two accounts on premium with no lag. Although I will accept that I live in London which I believe is where the servers are So maybe if you are overseas like America than yes the lag could manifest, but than again CCP boosting the speed of the trans-atlantic cables is really out of any mmo's depth. -------- derek

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