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gilca Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 05:44:00 - [1] So I log into eve this evening to see a 420m isk double through poker game in the EOH channel. I've played many 105's and 210's at EOH and never had any problems, I always get paid and have never had a problem with the leadership or bankers until now. So I send admiral leyton the 420m isk to play in the game, and register up on the table. We're waiting for leyton to start when leyton says in channel "gilca get on the table". All the other players at the table said "gilca is regged up, I see him", but leyton said he couldn't see me, so I closed my poker mavens. When I tried to log back in it said "the name gilca is already in use". I thought maybe it was a ghost connection since I closed mavens instead of logging out, so I waited a second and tried to connect again. Same thing. Tried a few more times, then switched back into eve and typed to the EOH channel what was happening and said that I couldn't join. I tried to log in a few more times to no avail, so I switched to a different name, logged in, and saw that my character had 0 chips. I immediately started complainign in the EOh channel, and sent selene a convo request. She accepted, I explained that I was being scammed, and she logged onto the table to investigate. She allowed the game to continue while she conducted her investigation, and I wasn't worried at all because Selene has IP logs right? WRONG About half an hour after the game ends, and she pays everyone out, she tells me that she can't get ip logs on this version of poker mavens, and that she doesn't have sufficient evidence for a refund. WHAT?!?!?!? You don't have the proper logs to prevent fraud, and you won't refund my entry? I'm absolutely astonished. I thought selene was a stand up businessman/woman but I guess players are expected to keep their own logs somehow? So i'm out 420m isk, everything I had, and selene is sitting pretty on her stacks of billions while her customers get scammed. Oh and she offered me 200m isk settlement (420m buyin) and Slene, you can go ** yourself. Keep your dirty ***** money. EOH CUSTOMERS BEWARE
gilca Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 05:44:00 - [2] So I log into eve this evening to see a 420m isk double through poker game in the EOH channel. I've played many 105's and 210's at EOH and never had any problems, I always get paid and have never had a problem with the leadership or bankers until now. So I send admiral leyton the 420m isk to play in the game, and register up on the table. We're waiting for leyton to start when leyton says in channel "gilca get on the table". All the other players at the table said "gilca is regged up, I see him", but leyton said he couldn't see me, so I closed my poker mavens. When I tried to log back in it said "the name gilca is already in use". I thought maybe it was a ghost connection since I closed mavens instead of logging out, so I waited a second and tried to connect again. Same thing. Tried a few more times, then switched back into eve and typed to the EOH channel what was happening and said that I couldn't join. I tried to log in a few more times to no avail, so I switched to a different name, logged in, and saw that my character had 0 chips. I immediately started complainign in the EOh channel, and sent selene a convo request. She accepted, I explained that I was being scammed, and she logged onto the table to investigate. She allowed the game to continue while she conducted her investigation, and I wasn't worried at all because Selene has IP logs right? WRONG About half an hour after the game ends, and she pays everyone out, she tells me that she can't get ip logs on this version of poker mavens, and that she doesn't have sufficient evidence for a refund. WHAT?!?!?!? You don't have the proper logs to prevent fraud, and you won't refund my entry? I'm absolutely astonished. I thought selene was a stand up businessman/woman but I guess players are expected to keep their own logs somehow? So i'm out 420m isk, everything I had, and selene is sitting pretty on her stacks of billions while her customers get scammed. Oh and she offered me 200m isk settlement (420m buyin) and Slene, you can go ** yourself. Keep your dirty ***** money. EOH CUSTOMERS BEWARE
Furb Killer USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.17 05:46:00 - [3] So you used all your isk on a poker game?
Furb Killer USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.17 05:46:00 - [4] So you used all your isk on a poker game?
gilca Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 05:48:00 - [5] yeah it's kinda like selling everything you have, going to las vegas to place all your money on the roulette wheel on black, but you never get to spin they just take your chips and say thanks for playing
gilca Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 05:48:00 - [6] yeah it's kinda like selling everything you have, going to las vegas to place all your money on the roulette wheel on black, but you never get to spin they just take your chips and say thanks for playing
pompousnumma	Posted - 2008.06.17 05:50:00 - [7] wow that's bull****, how do you run a high dollar service like that without keeping ip logs? I've always thought player run banking was a little sketchy, but now i'm convinced. I'll wait for ambulation thanks.
pompousnumma	Posted - 2008.06.17 05:50:00 - [8] wow that's bull****, how do you run a high dollar service like that without keeping ip logs? I've always thought player run banking was a little sketchy, but now i'm convinced. I'll wait for ambulation thanks.
nigslop	Posted - 2008.06.17 05:59:00 - [9] So what you don't need a password for your account? anyone can log in with your name? You sure about that? cus if the names are password protected it's case closed and you're a scammer
nigslop	Posted - 2008.06.17 05:59:00 - [10] So what you don't need a password for your account? anyone can log in with your name? You sure about that? cus if the names are password protected it's case closed and you're a scammer
Vrix Xin	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:05:00 - [11] No the names arn't password protected unfortunately.
Jeramon Castro	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:05:00 - [12] Welcome to EVE.
Vrix Xin	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:05:00 - [13] No the names arn't password protected unfortunately.
Jeramon Castro	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:05:00 - [14] Welcome to EVE.
Falcon Troy State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:11:00 - [15] Edited by: Falcon Troy on 17/06/2008 06:11:54 You gave 420mil to an unsecured third party. They have every right to give you nothing and take your money. You have no sympathy from me. Congratulations. _____________ Hai.
gilca Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:13:00 - [16] Edited by: gilca on 17/06/2008 06:15:49 And here are the chat logs with time stamps, and a screen shot of when I paid to get in the game Chat Logs Screenshot my favorite part: ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:13 ] Admiral Leyton > Gilca ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:16 ] lorren > need 1 more 420 per table ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:16 ] Admiral Leyton > Get on the tbl ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:17 ] Graff En'Vec > x winnner table 1 ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:19 ] Admiral Leyton > before i stab u ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:24 ] lorren > lol ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:27 ] j0nna > x table 1 2nd ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:29 ] jkepster > lol ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:34 ] lorren > admiral u play ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:45 ] hellwarrior > hes already reg'd ?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:57 ] gilca > ive been here mr stabby ?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:07 ] King4aDay > you disco'd about 5 min ago ?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:14 ] Admiral Leyton > Your not on the tbl ?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:16 ] Johnson Lokistar > any games leyton? ?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:38 ] gilca > yes i am ?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:43 ] Admiral Leyton > In a sec ?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:50 ] gilca > oh ?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:52 ] gilca > okim rejoining ?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:53 ] Swethren > games now ?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:56 ] Swethren > didi mow ?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:03 ] Admiral Leyton > Done ?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:16 ] Vrix Xin > 105 mil double up plz ?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:21 ] Johnson Lokistar > didi mow!!! ?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:23 ] gilca > says my name is in use ?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:37 ] Vrix Xin > o.O is some1 trying to cheat? ?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:43 ] Vrix Xin > logging in with ur name ?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:52 ] gilca > can u kick me off plz ?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:58 ] King4aDay > did you close your client? ?[ 2008.06.17 03:47:06 ] Admiral Leyton > The next game buys in at 105m ISK to Admiral Leyton on Eve Online Hold'Em Table #5. Game Type: Double Thru - (Top 3 places pay 2x the buyin) Game starts when 6 players are seated. 1/6 ?[ 2008.06.17 03:47:08 ] gilca > yes ?[ 2008.06.17 03:47:43 ] gilca > yeah wont let me log in till i timeout i guess
Asuka Smith The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:14:00 - [17] As a former banker I can say that I am sure Selene did not screw you with the intention of screwing you, and I am sure there is more to this than "sorry, too bad" on his end. However trying to settle with you for less than you put in is certainly in poor taste.
Vrix Xin	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:26:00 - [18] Edited by: Vrix Xin on 17/06/2008 06:30:57 Edited by: Vrix Xin on 17/06/2008 06:27:55 Originally by: Falcon Troy Edited by: Falcon Troy on 17/06/2008 06:11:54 You gave 420mil to an unsecured third party. They have every right to give you nothing and take your money. You have no sympathy from me. Congratulations. Well to be fair, Selene claims to backup all games from any scams (she even takes a 1 billion isk insurance from new bankers, however I believe the scam protection only protects players from banker scams). HOWEVER, in my opinion, the banker banking the game should have realized what was going on and stopped it immediately, in not doing so they only added to the problem and they should really be at fault for it (and more importantly, have been the one to refund gilca 420 million isk, not selene). On a more unfortunate note, gilca was already complaining about someone faking to be gilca before the game even started. However the bankers ignored it entirely and started the game anyways, even after the person faking to be gilca asked the banker to restart the game. Its a shame Gilca didn't get a full refund, howver I guess in the end you just have to remember this is eve. :/
Avaricha Halo Grail Seekers	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:30:00 - [19] Originally by: Asuka Smith As a former banker I can say that I am sure Selene did not screw you with the intention of screwing you, and I am sure there is more to this than "sorry, too bad" on his end. However trying to settle with you for less than you put in is certainly in poor taste. Selene couldnt find any evidence on his claims. For all she knows gilch is scamming her. This is EVE after all. He oughta be glad he got some reimbursements.
Vrix Xin	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:39:00 - [20] Edited by: Vrix Xin on 17/06/2008 06:40:55 Originally by: Avaricha Halo Originally by: Asuka Smith As a former banker I can say that I am sure Selene did not screw you with the intention of screwing you, and I am sure there is more to this than "sorry, too bad" on his end. However trying to settle with you for less than you put in is certainly in poor taste. Selene couldnt find any evidence on his claims. For all she knows gilch is scamming her. This is EVE after all. He oughta be glad he got some reimbursements. I think you miss the point. Many of the players were/still are under the belief that Selene kept some form of IP logs to protect against this, apparently this isn't possible due to the software limitations of the poker program in use (to be fixed within the week). For what its worth, I know for a fact the entire situation isn't a scam by gilca. I was on the table at the time in question and the player who logged on to take his place was definitely not gilca (Minus the fact that the "Name" of the character was the same, everything else on the poker character was different such as location, avatar, etc. Not to mention the fact that the player joined the game and just kept going all in till he/she had wasted all of gilca's chips.)
Asuka Smith The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:39:00 - [21] Which sounds about right, I mean this claim of scamz has just as much credence as all those guys who post about how they did not buy ISK and why is my wallet negative??? However the reports of people calling foul before the game even started and the bankers being inattentive... Oh well, I know how it goes, shame that for such a huge buy-in this happened but risks are taken on both sides.
PuncherDavis	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:41:00 - [22] At this rate in order to keep a GOOD reputation I would have called the game reset the amounts people won and called the game out due to lag/hack. As is you now have a crap reputation as a gambling establishment and no matter what you say now your looked at as best people that made a mistake and worst totally incompentent petty ante thieves without a clue. LOTS of business will pay off a lose just to make sure the reputation is kept good. IF you can't find logs to prove what the customer is saying is wrong then you should have never started the gambling establishment in the first place without first having a recording system in place to make sure you could catch scammers and not have to guess who was and who aint. Responsiblity is always with the establishment to make sure fair play is happening and no scamming as the customer has no real way to do that with the limited information given to them in thier chat screens.. ALSO..for Gilca...ANY FECKING TIME you give your isk to a third party AT ALL in eve you take a chance that it will be stolen scammed etc etc.. FOR crying out loud take steps to provide yourself as much documentation as possible. EVE is reknown for billions lost on people that were acting the bad guy in game and thus succeded at doing it..(they would not try it in real life as they would get thier head handed to them but it is a game where people can be A'holes and get away with it). SO im sorry they were stupid and should be doing the right thing and Im sorry you made a bad decision to trust them when you got ripped off. BUT if they want to stay in business they better get on the ball and get it sorted out and get you paid back just to stop the bad publicity or its just gonna get worse for them.
Asuka Smith The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:45:00 - [23] That is a little off the handle Puncher, EOH is the most reputable in-game operation that exists, if you feel safer handing you isk to uoY_Dellik then not sure what to say lol (No diss to Dellik, I played with him a couple times, he is just a little too brash to give that much leverage over myself).
Vrix Xin	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Asuka Smith Which sounds about right, I mean this claim of scamz has just as much credence as all those guys who post about how they did not buy ISK and why is my wallet negative??? However the reports of people calling foul before the game even started and the bankers being inattentive... Oh well, I know how it goes, shame that for such a huge buy-in this happened but risks are taken on both sides. Well I think the frustration on Gilca's side has more to do with that the players in EOH like playing there because they feel their playing in a reputable channel and under a owner who did keep logs and/or refund scamming of this nature. I'm sure gilca recognizes it wasn't selene who scammed him, it was the player pretending to be him. However all the anger is directed at selene since 1) There were no IP logs kept by the channel owner (I was actually surprised about this one) 2) There was blatant calls to stop the game even before it started and they were totally ignored 3) Even after both 1 and 2 Gilca wasn't even given his full buyin back despite the fact that a player addmitted to having done this in channel.
PuncherDavis	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Asuka Smith Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/06/2008 06:45:51 That is a little off the handle Puncher, EOH is the most reputable in-game operation that exists, if you feel safer handing you isk to uoY_Dellik then not sure what to say lol. This is the first "scam" from EOH I have heard of since... Ever? They been in business for over a year so I would STFU saying their rep is ruined over one unfortunate incident. (No diss to Dellik, I played with him a couple times, he is just a little too brash to give that much leverage over myself). Only takes one screw up to bring down any previous reputable business and then it escalates from thier.. ALSO they should have just paid im off and booted him if they really wanted to solve the issue they could of but now its here on the forums which is the last place it should be..also I dont have to stfu its the forums not a place quiet people visit..So until you can bring something a bit more to the table then you typical internet bully tactics i got an idea for u!!!.. S T F U....read this as many times as u need to in order to understand it
gilca Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:55:00 - [26] So I found a possible avenue of obtaining proof that i'm innocent, see how Selene shoots down common sense logic? The Selene Problem
Asuka Smith The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:58:00 - [27] Originally by: PuncherDavis Originally by: Asuka Smith Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/06/2008 06:45:51 That is a little off the handle Puncher, EOH is the most reputable in-game operation that exists, if you feel safer handing you isk to uoY_Dellik then not sure what to say lol. This is the first "scam" from EOH I have heard of since... Ever? They been in business for over a year so I would STFU saying their rep is ruined over one unfortunate incident. (No diss to Dellik, I played with him a couple times, he is just a little too brash to give that much leverage over myself). Only takes one screw up to bring down any previous reputable business and then it escalates from thier.. ALSO they should have just paid im off and booted him if they really wanted to solve the issue they could of but now its here on the forums which is the last place it should be..also I dont have to stfu its the forums not a place quiet people visit..So until you can bring something a bit more to the table then you typical internet bully tactics i got an idea for u!!!.. S T F U....read this as many times as u need to in order to understand it Lol dellik alt perhaps? I did not mean offense if so. altpost: Just one screwup? Yeah right. EOH will survive as it always has, everyone will just be more careful.
PuncherDavis	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:07:00 - [28] No im not an alt of anybody this is my main and Ive read literlly 100's of thousands of post and even started a few that were interesting... What im doing as a person who does PROFESSIONAL customer service is providing a perspective that starts with ME being the Business and GILCA being the customer. I know that my company has given money back made special plans arrange billing and even flat out forgiven things that we KNEW we were right on but in order to smooth things over we gave up the fight and just let it go in order to ..gonna put this caps.. T O MAINTAIN A GOOD REPUTATION Yeah I know it sounds like politicing but oh well what you gonna do about it has to happen.. As far as offense nope not really but ive found that STFU is a statment that never does what you want it to and is a sign of some kind of internet or personal rage somewhere. After reading the last post I would say selene is a nice person but very untrained in how to handle the issue once it became obvious that all total failure had occured and they were going to have to eat it to fix it. ALSO a GOOD gaming establishment has enough money to COVER and REFUND all bets if hack/scam/lag is found to be in place or one would think it would...
Asuka Smith The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:14:00 - [29] Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/06/2008 07:13:57 Not gonna lie Puncher I stopped reading after you said you worked professional customer service. (Because at that point I realized you were lying)
Vrix Xin	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:16:00 - [30] Originally by: Asuka Smith Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/06/2008 07:13:57 Not gonna lie Puncher I stopped reading after you said you worked professional customer service. (Because at that point I realized you were lying) Well to sum it up, he basically said selene should have paid anyways to maintain the reputation of her service, however i can pretty much guarantee this won't damage it much if any, just based on the sheer fact that not many people will end up reading it.
Asuka Smith The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:18:00 - [31] And it is the only game in town... There is a lot to be said to be running the only gambling house, no matter how disreputable. Realistically EOH could up the scam quota to probably one a month and peeps would still play.
PuncherDavis	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:21:00 - [32] Originally by: Asuka Smith Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/06/2008 07:13:57 Not gonna lie Puncher I stopped reading after you said you worked professional customer service. (Because at that point I realized you were lying) And to think your probably one of those people that dont pay thier bills and want credits all the time because you dont fully read the contract of what you are getting into. But I dont care what ya beleive bud if your as deep as a bird bath and wont go into the deep end of it to understand what is being said then your ignorance is your choice not mine ..:)
Thirzarr	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:22:00 - [33] Hm, I do understand Selene being VERY carefull about who to give money to. On the other hand: If gilca * wasn't at the table * payed the buyin then... erm... what would be the "loss" of giving byck the buyin? Am I missing something? Or did another "gilca" play your money at the table? So... someone else had your poker login? wonders This is the part that makes no sense at all. To me, at least. Q: Did someone else use YOUR login to the poker game and CLAIM to be you and play that round? Qa): If yes: why did he have you password/login? Qb): If no password is needed: ermm... no, cant be THAT unsecured, can it? Its quite some isk involved, I'm shure "registered and veryfied" is required to play, no? => So: either its your fault by giving away your login-data or choosing such bad data that it was guessed instantly (like "Just Enter" being the password)... In that case you can be more then happy with a "supportive reimbursement to stay on your feet". => Or: There has been done a terrible job at securing this kind of game. This being the obvious duty of the Corp it was wantonly negligent to not take precaution and therefore a full reimbursement would be suitable. Remember: Selene organized this and I'm pretty shure that 420 Mill buyin isn't worth the time spent in creating all this. So I'd suggest you behave less like a modern-day-politician and more like a person of honor. Whats the worst thing that could have happened to you at the table? Right: Loosing everything. So you have to have expected this. Don't panic now.
PuncherDavis	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:24:00 - [34] Originally by: Asuka Smith And it is the only game in town... There is a lot to be said to be running the only gambling house, no matter how disreputable. Realistically EOH could up the scam quota to probably one a month and peeps would still play. So now your saying because they have a monopoly on the situation they should be then given leeway to perform scams because they are the only ones that offer the service. I wonder if you realize how incredibly ignorant that sounds and if you ever get into business let me in on it so I dont buy anything from ya
Asuka Smith The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:31:00 - [35] Originally by: Wakari Masen This is pretty ridiculous. I don't understand how Selene tells gilca in the chat log that he has been working / investigating this for three hours but can't seem to offer up any actual reason to support the lack of refund. I bet there are a lot of other people who have accepted the settlement without talking about it on the forums and stuff. That said... I've never used any poker service because I just assumed that people would be stacking tables and cheating any way they could o.O Lol, EVE players are the most righteously indignant people in the world, if an EVE player gets scammed he makes a thread I doubt anything like this has EVER happened before.
Vrix Xin	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:35:00 - [36] Edited by: Vrix Xin on 17/06/2008 07:36:02 Originally by: Thirzarr Hm, I do understand Selene being VERY carefull about who to give money to. On the other hand: If gilca * wasn't at the table * payed the buyin then... erm... what would be the "loss" of giving byck the buyin? Am I missing something? Or did another "gilca" play your money at the table? So... someone else had your poker login? wonders This is the part that makes no sense at all. To me, at least. Q: Did someone else use YOUR login to the poker game and CLAIM to be you and play that round? Qa): If yes: why did he have you password/login? Qb): If no password is needed: ermm... no, cant be THAT unsecured, can it? Its quite some isk involved, I'm shure "registered and veryfied" is required to play, no? => So: either its your fault by giving away your login-data or choosing such bad data that it was guessed instantly (like "Just Enter" being the password)... In that case you can be more then happy with a "supportive reimbursement to stay on your feet". => Or: There has been done a terrible job at securing this kind of game. This being the obvious duty of the Corp it was wantonly negligent to not take precaution and therefore a full reimbursement would be suitable. Remember: Selene organized this and I'm pretty shure that 420 Mill buyin isn't worth the time spent in creating all this. So I'd suggest you behave less like a modern-day-politician and more like a person of honor. Whats the worst thing that could have happened to you at the table? Right: Loosing everything. So you have to have expected this. Don't panic now. the current service is unsecured (anyone can login and "pretend" to be you, aall you have to do is type in a player name before you get on a table.). I'm pretty sure this has actually already happened before, however never has it happened (to my knowledge) in a game with 420 million isk buy ins. EDIT: However this will all be fixed in a week when the new poker client is implemented that will not allow name scamming and things of that nature (bit too late though unfortunately)
Wakari Masen	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:40:00 - [37] So I dont get it, if gilca is lying... what would he be getting out of it?
PuncherDavis	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:43:00 - [38] Originally by: Wakari Masen So I dont get it, if gilca is lying... what would he be getting out of it? Nothing just the initial 420 million buy it...Seems kind of strange because most people be like yeah man i won 750 mill man pay me 600 mil and well call it even wink wink
Vrix Xin	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Wakari Masen So I dont get it, if gilca is lying... what would he be getting out of it? He's not lying for the record, however some would claim that he is lying just to destroy the poker reputation.
Vrix Xin	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:45:00 - [40] Originally by: PuncherDavis Originally by: Wakari Masen So I dont get it, if gilca is lying... what would he be getting out of it? Nothing just the initial 420 million buy it...Seems kind of strange because most people be like yeah man i won 750 mill man pay me 600 mil and well call it even wink wink although this is somewhat pointless. The game type being played at the time was called a "double game" where the top half of the table still standing (after the other hafl runs out of chips) gets 2x their buy in. I've watched gilca play in these and he wins most of the time. A guy like him doesn't need to go all in every single hand to win it. I think the specfics are besides the point though.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:48:00 - [41] shame on you SELLENE!! YOU TOOK THAT POOR MANS TITAN , AND GAVE IT AWAY TO YOUR PET CEO OF THE MOEMENT. now he is biomassing his characters - ands its all your fault. SKUNK
PuncherDavis	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:49:00 - [42] Funny thing is I know who has money in the banker group and 420 million is nothing to these guys..They .001 each other to death or do mass low order buys and resell mins at higher cost after doing mass melting and reselling in whatever region they are in. This to them is not even one days profit for alot of them so that makes the rub that much worse for Gilka
Blind Jhon	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:51:00 - [43]
Zanarkand Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:52:00 - [44] He could have lost a few first hands and seen that he isn't likely to win anymore... and he thought he would be better off pretending to be scammed and possibly be refunded. Or has this been proven(!) wrong? Sorry, I didn't read all the logs...
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:58:00 - [45] Not that what I think matters, but it looks like Gilca got screw here. The banker should have stop the game when he saw there was a problem vs rushing to get the game done and collect his money and move on. I also think after seeing how it play out Selene should have just paid out the 420 million isk to Gilca and chalk it up to a bad day. I dont think Selena scam gilca, but I also dont think she did the right thing. Just my 2 cents.
Vrix Xin	Posted - 2008.06.17 08:01:00 - [46] Originally by: Zanarkand He could have lost a few first hands and seen that he isn't likely to win anymore... and he thought he would be better off pretending to be scammed and possibly be refunded. Or has this been proven(!) wrong? Sorry, I didn't read all the logs... Based on the timetable of events, he was already saying he couldn't get in before the game even started.
Selene D'Celeste The D'Celeste Trading Company	Posted - 2008.06.17 08:32:00 - [47] Welp. One of those nights. First off, I'm not responding to everyone here, I already spent way too much time trying to sort out what happened and then deal with gilca without compromising my channel rules or my personal values. This is also the only time I am replying here. I will include a few of the most recent posts here to bounce off of as well. Most things I could say are in chat logs linked by gilca above, so there's not too much to explain. ** went down tonight and someone was unhappy with how it ended. Originally by:** Zanarkand He could have lost a few first hands and seen that he isn't likely to win anymore... and he thought he would be better off pretending to be scammed and possibly be refunded. Or has this been proven(!) wrong? Sorry, I didn't read all the logs... Available to me were hand logs, chat logs, and EVE chat logs. All of the important stuff happened in a 2-3 minute window, and wasn't easy to sort out. Could gilca be innocent? Sure. Should the game have been stopped at the first sign of possible trouble? Maybe. But it didn't happen in time. I included the quote above because this is exactly why we have the rules we do. There have been some ridiculously well acted and drawn out scam attempts to not lose money or steal money from players in our channel. Unless I have enough evidence, or all players at a table agree, I do not authorize changing payouts once a game has started. There is no point arguing over whether the evidence was sufficient, I made my judgment call already. Originally by: MilowFV I also think after seeing how it play out Selene should have just paid out the 420 million isk to Gilca and chalk it up to a bad day. I dont think Selena scam gilca, but I also dont think she did the right thing. Just my 2 cents. While this scenario is possible, there are more details. Quite some time after the incident, once I finished reviewing what logs we had, I announced in channel that the game was to be paid out normally and gilca was not recieving a refund. At this point a nub-corp character speaks up stating that he did this to gilca, and that he was trying to make more money for my bankers (a banker was playing in the game). Later in private convo this person gave ample proof that they were an enemy of mine out to harm the channel's reputation by their actions. There is a chance that gilca is an innocent bystander, but having had similar scenarios in the past (there was one attached to the Genocide incident detailed in our service thread, for example) where a supposed victim is actually the one trying to scam or rile up people in channel, I can not in good conscience say "sure here is your money back out of my pocket even though you may be the one trying to scam me". It is bad enough that this person already "won" tonight, simply by this thread existing and me spending time on this issue. Also as seen in gilca's logs, I tried to offer a medium I could live with were he involved with this reputation-attack against me and the poker channel. But I will never put myself into a position to play perfectly into the hands of someone trying to harm me or my business as has happened to me at times in the past. So, feel however you do about this, I have made my judgment on this issue (as I always do) and life will go one. Some people will forget about this tomorrow, others will be unhappy, and EOH will still be there. As Vrix noted we are very close to upgrading the client to prevent this and many other possible problems, and we possibly have a way to prevent name scamming / banker scams from ever being a problem again as well. As a final note, a customer having issues with our services is not an event, and should not have its own thread. I am going to ask the moderators to lock this, and I would like further discussion to continue in our actual service thread. I will even link this thread in that one once this is locked simple for bookkeeping. Cheers and goodnight.
gilca Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:18:00 - [48] Edited by: gilca on 17/06/2008 09:21:29 It's unbelievable that you won't take a few minutes of your time to see if there's solid proof that it wasn't a scam. If the logs and the time difference proves that I said my name was in use before the game started, then what was my motivation? Before a single chip fell? this was not a problem with your service, this was a calculated move by someone to **** me (or possibly just a random person) over. I know you weren't behind it, but I hold you responsible for not preventing it, since there is absolutely nothing else I could have done to prevent this. I send money to a real banker, I log into the table. your banker tells me to rejoin, I tell him i'm not on the table, I cant get in, but the game goes on. WTF else can I do selene?
maarud Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Selene D'Celeste As a final note, a customer having issues with our services is not an event, and should not have its own thread. I am going to ask the moderators to lock this, and I would like further discussion to continue in our actual service thread. I will even link this thread in that one once this is locked simple for bookkeeping. Cheers and goodnight. LOL, can't handle a bit of bad publicity so you're going to get the thread locked and then hide a link to it in your own thread... nice. Its not your thread and I don't see any out of the way smack or anything, so good luck with that. You guys looked like you had a decent system running, but I suppose as long as everything is running smoothly, then it works. Get a hick up and its time to bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. Good business practice, hope it works out for you. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
gilca Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:47:00 - [50] Edited by: gilca on 17/06/2008 09:48:38 well I guess i'm **** out of luck now since Selene is thoroughly peeved, anyone want to buy a vagabond pilot in training? Great learning skills, 4.7mil total sp with cruiser 5 done and out of the way. Skills
Vincenzo Delloro Lux et Veritas	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:49:00 - [51] Who the hell joins an internet spaceship game where you can fly around and blow stuff up, then spends their nights playing poker through it? I'm calling shenanigans on the whole idea.
gilca Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:53:00 - [52] Edited by: gilca on 17/06/2008 09:53:26 hah I made about 100-200mil isk a night playing poker instead of running missions for isk. It was a great passtime, and I played ALOT of games in EOH and paid well over 400mil isk just in rakes. Too good to be true I guess, too bad I just bought two gtc's for my characters, so completely drained my isk.
Eardianm Duty.	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:55:00 - [53] Originally by: maarud Originally by: Selene D'Celeste As a final note, a customer having issues with our services is not an event, and should not have its own thread. I am going to ask the moderators to lock this, and I would like further discussion to continue in our actual service thread. I will even link this thread in that one once this is locked simple for bookkeeping. Cheers and goodnight. LOL, can't handle a bit of bad publicity so you're going to get the thread locked and then hide a link to it in your own thread... nice. Its not your thread and I don't see any out of the way smack or anything, so good luck with that. You guys looked like you had a decent system running, but I suppose as long as everything is running smoothly, then it works. Get a hick up and its time to bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. Good business practice, hope it works out for you. This, pretty much spot on. --------------
gnshadowninja Baptism oF Fire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.06.17 11:47:00 - [54] Originally by: maarud Originally by: Selene D'Celeste As a final note, a customer having issues with our services is not an event, and should not have its own thread. I am going to ask the moderators to lock this, and I would like further discussion to continue in our actual service thread. I will even link this thread in that one once this is locked simple for bookkeeping. Cheers and goodnight. LOL, can't handle a bit of bad publicity so you're going to get the thread locked and then hide a link to it in your own thread... nice. Its not your thread and I don't see any out of the way smack or anything, so good luck with that. You guys looked like you had a decent system running, but I suppose as long as everything is running smoothly, then it works. Get a hick up and its time to bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. Good business practice, hope it works out for you. Totally agree with this guy aswell. Bad play on the owners side. you want to do that sort of business, Get the proper security. If you can't prove that this guy got scammed then you should close down till you can prove that no one else will.
uoY delliK DOA POKER	Posted - 2008.06.17 12:11:00 - [55] Not to thread hi-jack, but... There is one simple way to avoid this ever happening to you. DOA POKER (ingame chat) now has new software, with password protected user names, and ip logs of all events. The new software also offers more options... Come on by and check us out. Best thing to happen to poker for isk, since the creation of Eve!
Zaknussem The Ironbreakers	Posted - 2008.06.17 12:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Selene D'Celeste But I will never put myself into a position to play perfectly into the hands of someone trying to harm me or my business as has happened to me at times in the past. Regardless of whether your conspiracy theory holds water or not, it's already Too Late, thanks to your actions, or lack of them. The "terrorists" have already won. Quote: So, feel however you do about this, I have made my judgment on this issue (as I always do) and life will go on. Some people will forget about this tomorrow, others will be unhappy, and EOH will still be there. As a final note, a customer having issues with our services is not an event, and should not have its own thread. I am going to ask the moderators to lock this, and I would like further discussion to continue in our actual service thread. I will even link this thread in that one once this is locked simple for bookkeeping. Cheers and goodnight. Wow. I haven't seen anyone think so highly of him/herself in an Internet game since...when, ever. You're just a bloke that runs an online poker game (badly, I may add, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist) and you think of yourself as some kind of royalty? Also, has anyone checked the legality of running a poker game within EvE? It stands to reason that EvE, being an Icelandic game made by an Icelandic company that's stationed in Iceland, would have to follow Icelandic laws, correct? Well, gambling is illegal in Iceland. Has CCP looked into this?
TheEnlightened	Posted - 2008.06.17 19:04:00 - [57] lol. i would imagine at least that 'gambling' has to involve money. since there is no way to turn isk into money, i think we're safe legally. as for glicia, i'm very sad to hear this, i would be pretty p/o'd if this were me too... selene makes a couple good points and then shoots herself in the foot a few times with that post. ouch. good thing she doesent keep her pocketbook in her shoe hey guys since that seems intact. (lol) for a person who considers themselves a business owner selene clearly doesent understand the value of clientele relations and should have immediately paid out to avoid a further bad rep. allow me to close by making an analogy to fast food... if McDonalds took my money and didnt give me a cheeseburger, i'd probably go elsewhere next time i was munchin out mmkay?? Selene: If you want to remain +10 standings in the eyes of your clientele, I'd suggest you develop a better customer support department. Or at least include toys with your meals. yarr.
TheEnlightened	Posted - 2008.06.17 19:23:00 - [58] Selene's post (unrelated thread) Thanks for the kind words. As usual, we are nothing without our players, so please let us know what you think and how we can improve. We are limited by software and other conditions, but it never hurts to ask or discuss. hmm... isint this interesting... dictionary.com for the word 'integrity' should shed some light on the situation.
TomHorn	Posted - 2008.06.17 20:01:00 - [59] Ive played at "eve online holdem" for i think nearly 7months and i have to say they are very reputable and trustworthy organisation. I can see how someone could do this having played many times at eve online holdem and used the poker mavens software but ive never heard of this scam in all the time ive played and been a banker there. Clearly this scam was done not to make isk,but as a personal attack on the channel or selene. Because even if the impersonator had won, the winnings gets sent by the banker to the eve online char that sends the money. As someone previously said in this thread the gilca playing the game played very strangley going allin until he finally lucked out and lost all the chips. Its shame the players and bankers didnt seem to realise something was not quite right and have the game cancelled and a refund to all players.
Killer Kelly Allied Tactical Unit Scalar Federation	Posted - 2008.06.17 20:20:00 - [60] Call 1-800-GAMBLER ___________ I Get Money in the Scalar Federation

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.06.17 20:58:00 - [61] Locked. Please continue discussion of this in this thread Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang


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