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gilca
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.17 05:44:00 -
[1]
So I log into eve this evening to see a 420m isk double through poker game in the EOH channel. I've played many 105's and 210's at EOH and never had any problems, I always get paid and have never had a problem with the leadership or bankers until now. So I send admiral leyton the 420m isk to play in the game, and register up on the table. We're waiting for leyton to start when leyton says in channel "gilca get on the table". All the other players at the table said "gilca is regged up, I see him", but leyton said he couldn't see me, so I closed my poker mavens.
When I tried to log back in it said "the name gilca is already in use". I thought maybe it was a ghost connection since I closed mavens instead of logging out, so I waited a second and tried to connect again. Same thing. Tried a few more times, then switched back into eve and typed to the EOH channel what was happening and said that I couldn't join. I tried to log in a few more times to no avail, so I switched to a different name, logged in, and saw that my character had 0 chips. I immediately started complainign in the EOh channel, and sent selene a convo request. She accepted, I explained that I was being scammed, and she logged onto the table to investigate. She allowed the game to continue while she conducted her investigation, and I wasn't worried at all because Selene has IP logs right? WRONG
About half an hour after the game ends, and she pays everyone out, she tells me that she can't get ip logs on this version of poker mavens, and that she doesn't have sufficient evidence for a refund. WHAT?!?!?!? You don't have the proper logs to prevent fraud, and you won't refund my entry? I'm absolutely astonished. I thought selene was a stand up businessman/woman but I guess players are expected to keep their own logs somehow?
So i'm out 420m isk, everything I had, and selene is sitting pretty on her stacks of billions while her customers get scammed. Oh and she offered me 200m isk settlement (420m buyin) and Slene, you can go **** yourself. Keep your dirty ******* money.
EOH CUSTOMERS BEWARE
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gilca
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.17 05:44:00 -
[2]
So I log into eve this evening to see a 420m isk double through poker game in the EOH channel. I've played many 105's and 210's at EOH and never had any problems, I always get paid and have never had a problem with the leadership or bankers until now. So I send admiral leyton the 420m isk to play in the game, and register up on the table. We're waiting for leyton to start when leyton says in channel "gilca get on the table". All the other players at the table said "gilca is regged up, I see him", but leyton said he couldn't see me, so I closed my poker mavens.
When I tried to log back in it said "the name gilca is already in use". I thought maybe it was a ghost connection since I closed mavens instead of logging out, so I waited a second and tried to connect again. Same thing. Tried a few more times, then switched back into eve and typed to the EOH channel what was happening and said that I couldn't join. I tried to log in a few more times to no avail, so I switched to a different name, logged in, and saw that my character had 0 chips. I immediately started complainign in the EOh channel, and sent selene a convo request. She accepted, I explained that I was being scammed, and she logged onto the table to investigate. She allowed the game to continue while she conducted her investigation, and I wasn't worried at all because Selene has IP logs right? WRONG
About half an hour after the game ends, and she pays everyone out, she tells me that she can't get ip logs on this version of poker mavens, and that she doesn't have sufficient evidence for a refund. WHAT?!?!?!? You don't have the proper logs to prevent fraud, and you won't refund my entry? I'm absolutely astonished. I thought selene was a stand up businessman/woman but I guess players are expected to keep their own logs somehow?
So i'm out 420m isk, everything I had, and selene is sitting pretty on her stacks of billions while her customers get scammed. Oh and she offered me 200m isk settlement (420m buyin) and Slene, you can go **** yourself. Keep your dirty ******* money.
EOH CUSTOMERS BEWARE
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Furb Killer
USC Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.17 05:46:00 -
[3]
So you used all your isk on a poker game? 
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Furb Killer
USC Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.17 05:46:00 -
[4]
So you used all your isk on a poker game?
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gilca
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.17 05:48:00 -
[5]
yeah it's kinda like selling everything you have, going to las vegas to place all your money on the roulette wheel on black, but you never get to spin they just take your chips and say thanks for playing
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gilca
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.17 05:48:00 -
[6]
yeah it's kinda like selling everything you have, going to las vegas to place all your money on the roulette wheel on black, but you never get to spin they just take your chips and say thanks for playing
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pompousnumma
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Posted - 2008.06.17 05:50:00 -
[7]
wow that's bull****, how do you run a high dollar service like that without keeping ip logs? I've always thought player run banking was a little sketchy, but now i'm convinced. I'll wait for ambulation thanks.
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pompousnumma
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Posted - 2008.06.17 05:50:00 -
[8]
wow that's bull****, how do you run a high dollar service like that without keeping ip logs? I've always thought player run banking was a little sketchy, but now i'm convinced. I'll wait for ambulation thanks.
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nigslop
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Posted - 2008.06.17 05:59:00 -
[9]
So what you don't need a password for your account? anyone can log in with your name? You sure about that? cus if the names are password protected it's case closed and you're a scammer
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nigslop
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Posted - 2008.06.17 05:59:00 -
[10]
So what you don't need a password for your account? anyone can log in with your name? You sure about that? cus if the names are password protected it's case closed and you're a scammer
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Vrix Xin
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:05:00 -
[11]
No the names arn't password protected unfortunately.
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Jeramon Castro
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:05:00 -
[12]
Welcome to EVE.
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Vrix Xin
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:05:00 -
[13]
No the names arn't password protected unfortunately.
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Jeramon Castro
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:05:00 -
[14]
Welcome to EVE.
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Falcon Troy
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:11:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Falcon Troy on 17/06/2008 06:11:54
You gave 420mil to an unsecured third party. They have every right to give you nothing and take your money. You have no sympathy from me.
Congratulations.
_____________
Hai. |
gilca
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:13:00 -
[16]
Edited by: gilca on 17/06/2008 06:15:49
And here are the chat logs with time stamps, and a screen shot of when I paid to get in the game
Chat Logs
Screenshot
my favorite part:
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:13 ] Admiral Leyton > Gilca
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:16 ] lorren > need 1 more 420 per table
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:16 ] Admiral Leyton > Get on the tbl
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:17 ] Graff En'Vec > x winnner table 1
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:19 ] Admiral Leyton > before i stab u
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:24 ] lorren > lol
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:27 ] j0nna > x table 1 2nd
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:29 ] jkepster > lol
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:34 ] lorren > admiral u play
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:45 ] hellwarrior > hes already reg'd
?[ 2008.06.17 03:44:57 ] gilca > ive been here mr stabby
?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:07 ] King4aDay > you disco'd about 5 min ago
?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:14 ] Admiral Leyton > Your not on the tbl
?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:16 ] Johnson Lokistar > any games leyton?
?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:38 ] gilca > yes i am
?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:43 ] Admiral Leyton > In a sec
?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:50 ] gilca > oh
?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:52 ] gilca > okim rejoining
?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:53 ] Swethren > games now
?[ 2008.06.17 03:45:56 ] Swethren > didi mow
?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:03 ] Admiral Leyton > Done
?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:16 ] Vrix Xin > 105 mil double up plz
?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:21 ] Johnson Lokistar > didi mow!!!
?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:23 ] gilca > says my name is in use
?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:37 ] Vrix Xin > o.O is some1 trying to cheat?
?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:43 ] Vrix Xin > logging in with ur name
?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:52 ] gilca > can u kick me off plz
?[ 2008.06.17 03:46:58 ] King4aDay > did you close your client?
?[ 2008.06.17 03:47:06 ] Admiral Leyton > The next game buys in at 105m ISK to Admiral Leyton on Eve Online Hold'Em Table #5. Game Type: Double Thru - (Top 3 places pay 2x the buyin) Game starts when 6 players are seated. 1/6
?[ 2008.06.17 03:47:08 ] gilca > yes
?[ 2008.06.17 03:47:43 ] gilca > yeah wont let me log in till i timeout i guess
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Asuka Smith
The Defias Brotherhood
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:14:00 -
[17]
As a former banker I can say that I am sure Selene did not screw you with the intention of screwing you, and I am sure there is more to this than "sorry, too bad" on his end. However trying to settle with you for less than you put in is certainly in poor taste.
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Vrix Xin
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:26:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Vrix Xin on 17/06/2008 06:30:57
Edited by: Vrix Xin on 17/06/2008 06:27:55
 Originally by: Falcon Troy
Edited by: Falcon Troy on 17/06/2008 06:11:54
You gave 420mil to an unsecured third party. They have every right to give you nothing and take your money. You have no sympathy from me.
Congratulations.
Well to be fair, Selene claims to backup all games from any scams (she even takes a 1 billion isk insurance from new bankers, however I believe the scam protection only protects players from banker scams). HOWEVER, in my opinion, the banker banking the game should have realized what was going on and stopped it immediately, in not doing so they only added to the problem and they should really be at fault for it (and more importantly, have been the one to refund gilca 420 million isk, not selene).
On a more unfortunate note, gilca was already complaining about someone faking to be gilca before the game even started. However the bankers ignored it entirely and started the game anyways, even after the person faking to be gilca asked the banker to restart the game.
Its a shame Gilca didn't get a full refund, howver I guess in the end you just have to remember this is eve. :/
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Avaricha Halo
Grail Seekers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Asuka Smith
As a former banker I can say that I am sure Selene did not screw you with the intention of screwing you, and I am sure there is more to this than "sorry, too bad" on his end. However trying to settle with you for less than you put in is certainly in poor taste.
Selene couldnt find any evidence on his claims. For all she knows gilch is scamming her. This is EVE after all. He oughta be glad he got some reimbursements.
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Vrix Xin
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:39:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Vrix Xin on 17/06/2008 06:40:55
Originally by: Avaricha Halo
Originally by: Asuka Smith
As a former banker I can say that I am sure Selene did not screw you with the intention of screwing you, and I am sure there is more to this than "sorry, too bad" on his end. However trying to settle with you for less than you put in is certainly in poor taste.
Selene couldnt find any evidence on his claims. For all she knows gilch is scamming her. This is EVE after all. He oughta be glad he got some reimbursements.
I think you miss the point. Many of the players were/still are under the belief that Selene kept some form of IP logs to protect against this, apparently this isn't possible due to the software limitations of the poker program in use (to be fixed within the week).
For what its worth, I know for a fact the entire situation isn't a scam by gilca. I was on the table at the time in question and the player who logged on to take his place was definitely not gilca (Minus the fact that the "Name" of the character was the same, everything else on the poker character was different such as location, avatar, etc. Not to mention the fact that the player joined the game and just kept going all in till he/she had wasted all of gilca's chips.)
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Asuka Smith
The Defias Brotherhood
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:39:00 -
[21]
Which sounds about right, I mean this claim of scamz has just as much credence as all those guys who post about how they did not buy ISK and why is my wallet negative???
However the reports of people calling foul before the game even started and the bankers being inattentive... Oh well, I know how it goes, shame that for such a huge buy-in this happened but risks are taken on both sides.
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PuncherDavis
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:41:00 -
[22]
At this rate in order to keep a GOOD reputation I would have called the game reset the amounts people won and called the game out due to lag/hack.
As is you now have a crap reputation as a gambling establishment and no matter what you say now your looked at as best people that made a mistake and worst totally incompentent petty ante thieves without a clue.
LOTS of business will pay off a lose just to make sure the reputation is kept good.
IF you can't find logs to prove what the customer is saying is wrong then you should have never started the gambling establishment in the first place without first having a recording system in place to make sure you could catch scammers and not have to guess who was and who aint.
Responsiblity is always with the establishment to make sure fair play is happening and no scamming as the customer has no real way to do that with the limited information given to them in thier chat screens..
ALSO..for Gilca...ANY FECKING TIME you give your isk to a third party AT ALL in eve you take a chance that it will be stolen scammed etc etc.. FOR crying out loud take steps to provide yourself as much documentation as possible. EVE is reknown for billions lost on people that were acting the bad guy in game and thus succeded at doing it..(they would not try it in real life as they would get thier head handed to them but it is a game where people can be A'holes and get away with it).
SO im sorry they were stupid and should be doing the right thing and Im sorry you made a bad decision to trust them when you got ripped off.
BUT if they want to stay in business they better get on the ball and get it sorted out and get you paid back just to stop the bad publicity or its just gonna get worse for them.
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Asuka Smith
The Defias Brotherhood
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:45:00 -
[23]
That is a little off the handle Puncher, EOH is the most reputable in-game operation that exists, if you feel safer handing you isk to uoY_Dellik then not sure what to say lol (No diss to Dellik, I played with him a couple times, he is just a little too brash to give that much leverage over myself).
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Vrix Xin
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:48:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Which sounds about right, I mean this claim of scamz has just as much credence as all those guys who post about how they did not buy ISK and why is my wallet negative???
However the reports of people calling foul before the game even started and the bankers being inattentive... Oh well, I know how it goes, shame that for such a huge buy-in this happened but risks are taken on both sides.
Well I think the frustration on Gilca's side has more to do with that the players in EOH like playing there because they feel their playing in a reputable channel and under a owner who did keep logs and/or refund scamming of this nature.
I'm sure gilca recognizes it wasn't selene who scammed him, it was the player pretending to be him.
However all the anger is directed at selene since
1) There were no IP logs kept by the channel owner (I was actually surprised about this one)
2) There was blatant calls to stop the game even before it started and they were totally ignored
3) Even after both 1 and 2 Gilca wasn't even given his full buyin back despite the fact that a player addmitted to having done this in channel.
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PuncherDavis
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/06/2008 06:45:51
That is a little off the handle Puncher, EOH is the most reputable in-game operation that exists, if you feel safer handing you isk to uoY_Dellik then not sure what to say lol. This is the first "scam" from EOH I have heard of since... Ever? They been in business for over a year so I would STFU saying their rep is ruined over one unfortunate incident. (No diss to Dellik, I played with him a couple times, he is just a little too brash to give that much leverage over myself).
Only takes one screw up to bring down any previous reputable business and then it escalates from thier.. ALSO they should have just paid im off and booted him if they really wanted to solve the issue they could of but now its here on the forums which is the last place it should be..also I dont have to stfu its the forums not a place quiet people visit..So until you can bring something a bit more to the table then you typical internet bully tactics i got an idea for u!!!..
S T F U....read this as many times as u need to in order to understand it
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gilca
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:55:00 -
[26]
So I found a possible avenue of obtaining proof that i'm innocent, see how Selene shoots down common sense logic?
The Selene Problem
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Asuka Smith
The Defias Brotherhood
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: PuncherDavis
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/06/2008 06:45:51
That is a little off the handle Puncher, EOH is the most reputable in-game operation that exists, if you feel safer handing you isk to uoY_Dellik then not sure what to say lol. This is the first "scam" from EOH I have heard of since... Ever? They been in business for over a year so I would STFU saying their rep is ruined over one unfortunate incident. (No diss to Dellik, I played with him a couple times, he is just a little too brash to give that much leverage over myself).
Only takes one screw up to bring down any previous reputable business and then it escalates from thier.. ALSO they should have just paid im off and booted him if they really wanted to solve the issue they could of but now its here on the forums which is the last place it should be..also I dont have to stfu its the forums not a place quiet people visit..So until you can bring something a bit more to the table then you typical internet bully tactics i got an idea for u!!!..
S T F U....read this as many times as u need to in order to understand it
Lol dellik alt perhaps? I did not mean offense if so.
altpost: Just one screwup? Yeah right. EOH will survive as it always has, everyone will just be more careful.
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PuncherDavis
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:07:00 -
[28]
No im not an alt of anybody this is my main and Ive read literlly 100's of thousands of post and even started a few that were interesting... What im doing as a person who does PROFESSIONAL customer service is providing a perspective that starts with ME being the Business and GILCA being the customer.
I know that my company has given money back made special plans arrange billing and even flat out forgiven things that we KNEW we were right on but in order to smooth things over we gave up the fight and just let it go in order to ..gonna put this caps..
T O MAINTAIN A GOOD REPUTATION
Yeah I know it sounds like politicing but oh well what you gonna do about it has to happen.. As far as offense nope not really but ive found that STFU is a statment that never does what you want it to and is a sign of some kind of internet or personal rage somewhere.
After reading the last post I would say selene is a nice person but very untrained in how to handle the issue once it became obvious that all total failure had occured and they were going to have to eat it to fix it.
ALSO a GOOD gaming establishment has enough money to COVER and REFUND all bets if hack/scam/lag is found to be in place or one would think it would...
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Asuka Smith
The Defias Brotherhood
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:14:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/06/2008 07:13:57
Not gonna lie Puncher I stopped reading after you said you worked professional customer service. (Because at that point I realized you were lying)
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Vrix Xin
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/06/2008 07:13:57
Not gonna lie Puncher I stopped reading after you said you worked professional customer service. (Because at that point I realized you were lying)
Well to sum it up, he basically said selene should have paid anyways to maintain the reputation of her service, however i can pretty much guarantee this won't damage it much if any, just based on the sheer fact that not many people will end up reading it.
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