| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
HarderThisTime
   |
Posted - 2008.06.18 17:35:00 -
[1]
Or gave heavy webber resistance?
What kind of effects would this have on tackling, or nano setups?
|
Thercon Jair
InQuest Ascension
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 17:38:00 -
[2]
That would be too much of a bonus, IMO. It would make MWDs pretty worthless. But I agree that there needs to be some balancing done.
Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 17:40:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Thercon Jair
That would be too much of a bonus, IMO. It would make MWDs pretty worthless. But I agree that there needs to be some balancing done.
Not that I like the idea.. but +600% of a bonus would still be preferable over a +160% bonus or whatever it is with lvl 4 skills.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
|
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 17:44:00 -
[4]
100% web immunity would be overpowered - all current MWD setups would replaced with AB variations and webs would become a superflous module.
I don't know if webbing modules are stacking penalized (i suppose though, since painters are), but a 50% web immunity would be reasonable. You'd end up with the following speeds:
# of webs % of base speed left
0 100
1 50
2 28.25
3 20.19
4 17.37
Sounds reasonable. Dedicated ships like huginn or rapier with dual webs would still be able to slow down ships to 28% of their original speed which, depending on setup obviously would be in the range or 200 - 400m/s if all nanohacs replaced their MWD with an AB.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Randolf Sightblinder
Ex Coelis
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 18:10:00 -
[5]
With the exception of a few fits its pretty hard to get to weapon immunity speeds with AB's instead of MWDS, but getting in close and being immune to webs would make turret ships cry, Missile boats could have a problem but it would be less with cruiser and smaller weapons being able to hit for damage most of the time.
I doubt MWDs would be dropped in favor of ABs even with 100% resistance to AB's just because you can't get fast enough on an AB alone. Though a 100% resistance is probably to much for other reasons, something like not being able to be reduced below ship speed sans AB might be interesting.
Randolf
|
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 18:16:00 -
[6]
I like this idea as long as it's balanced properly. You have the choice of higher top speed with a MWD or higher speed while webbed with an afterburner. Of course, you'd still have people prefering a MWD in general because an AB fitted ship would have a hard time getting into web range of a MWD fitted ship, but it would provide some additional motivation to use an AB.
Now, the question is: can a ship fit both a MWD and an AB? I know you can't fit multiple of one, but can you fit one of each? The intent would not be to run them both at the same time, but to switch from MWD to AB once you get webbed. This would obviously be a fitting and cap nightmare, but it could make for some interesting tricks.
--------------------
"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Hannobaal
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 20:11:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 18/06/2008 20:11:52
Originally by: Randolf Sightblinder
With the exception of a few fits its pretty hard to get to weapon immunity speeds with AB's instead of MWDS, but getting in close and being immune to webs would make turret ships cry,
The speeds you need to speed tank turrets when using an afterburner are a LOT lower than the speeds you need when using mwd (assuming same range to the target).
Missiles are a whole different thing though since speed and sig radius are treated separately there, unlike with tracking.
|
Deadeye Devie
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 20:24:00 -
[8]
this would result in a triptic of mods needed on a pvp ship...MWD, AB, and web...reasoning is....
accellerate in fast n hard with a MWD, get close, flip off the mwd and flip on a web and the AB, the webbed ship would need to flip off the MWD its using and put on its AB....conversly, if you burst in with MWD blairing, then they web u, u web back, and both of u go AB and cancel each other out!!! all in all, this makes webs a lil useless unless they are non AB ships...could be interesting, but also, could be pointless.
....another cool idea to think about...what if warp scrams and disrupters nullify MWDs????? always wondered why WARP scramblers never affected microWARP drives......
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 21:34:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/06/2008 21:34:44
Originally by: HarderThisTime
Or gave heavy webber resistance?
What kind of effects would this have on tackling, or nano setups?
Fun fact: AB-ing interceptors would solo any turret ship not using neutralizers if it were true. Somewhat overpowered.
Partial resistance (like, 50%) or just having the AB give more speed boost (like 30% more) would be OK.
Originally by: Deadeye Devie
....another cool idea to think about...what if warp scrams and disrupters nullify MWDs????? always wondered why WARP scramblers never affected microWARP drives......
You mean, "what if MWDs were totally and entirely useless?"
Which would honestly be bad for the game, people NEED a option to burn away from a bad fight (if nobody webs them), to attempt to control transversal or to burn back to gates, particularly when bubbled. Not having that would be horrible.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Thercon Jair
InQuest Ascension
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 21:56:00 -
[10]
Let me throw in one other thing into the discussion:
what happens to ships without an AB? Do they get webbed properly or won't they get webbed? It just popped to my mind as people are only discussing MWD and AB, but every ship comes without one ;)
I know they were playing around with engine and propulsion strenght for a chance based scrambling. What if they were to re-use that to calculate webber strengths? I mean, Minnie ships have more propulsion strength so they are less affected by webs. It would mean a bit of a rebalancing since minnie ships rely on speed, you web them, their subpar tanks makes them lose. Thing is just, minnie nano fits would get out of hands. Not an easy topic, I guess that's why they didn't change anything yet.
Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Imaos
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 08:15:00 -
[11]
I don't think it is a good idea throwing web immunity left and right. It also mostly annoys minmatar recon as the rest tries to stay out of web anyway. It might give more use to AB, but MWD would be still the optimal choice as you still get more uses out of it till even more poeple fly minmatar recons.
And as it always turns around WEBs. Why don't we change them? Signature size based webs could solve that problem and would even allow for longer ranged webs with bigger 'web explosion radius' so they affect larger MWDing ships more than small ABing ships.
Thread
Imaos
------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
NoNah
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 08:25:00 -
[12]
or you could solve it the normal way, give webbers a script that lowers optimal to say 20%, effectiveness by 50%, but gives a falloff of say 15km. Downside being it will only affect MWDs. Scripts are fashion today.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 619379
|
Kagura Nikon
Infinity Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 11:09:00 -
[13]
I already suggested partiual web immunity for AB several times in past. I hope someoen in CCP one day notices that the no speed mod/AB/MWD balance is too skeewed and need some rework like that.
At end AB would need to be as fast or faster than MWD while both are webbed.
To achieve that for example a ship with base speed 100 (just for sake of easy calculations).
With MWD it goes like 700 ms with AB it goes like 250 ms. Webbed that woudl put MWD at 70ms and AB with 50% immunity to the web effect (drops web to 45%) reaching 162ms. Not bad at all I would day. Would make a lot of ships start usign afterburners, specially battleships that usually cannot avoid being webbed anyway.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
|
Elhina Novae
Sky's Edge
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 11:15:00 -
[14]
Really i think a Script web would do it.
Change Stasis Webifier too:
45% slow down
20km range.
Now with Script 1:
90% slow down
10km range (as before)
Script 2:
22,5% slow down
40km range.
Or something along these lines?
Somebody set up us the bomb |
Miss Rumpelstilzchen
Black Horizon Ltd
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 11:20:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Miss Rumpelstilzchen on 19/06/2008 11:21:07
no a resitance for AB is insane, the only way to make a kind of resitance is the ship`s Mass, not the AB, and if ccp makes a resistance on the mass base the nanoships alos get a buff, so imunity is a realy stupit idea .. maybe for the Assault Frigs
as NoNah say`s... make a script for the Webbers, on for the 90% and 0% rangebonus
and one for maybe 50% range but with lesser webstrange around 45%.
cheers
//edit: haa haa Elhina Novae was a bit faster then me  .. :)=
|
Crellion
Art of War
Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 11:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Elhina Novae
Really i think a Script web would do it.
Change Stasis Webifier too:
45% slow down
20km range.
Now with Script 1:
90% slow down
10km range (as before)
Script 2:
22,5% slow down
40km range.
Or something along these lines?
How about no? Rapier with 3 webs wbbing at 150kms 4tw? mong...
Problem is with ABs. Web immunity 50%-75% is a very good solution.
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Miss Rumpelstilzchen
Black Horizon Ltd
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 12:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Crellion
How about no? Rapier with 3 webs wbbing at 150kms 4tw? mong...
Problem is with ABs. Web immunity 50%-75% is a very good solution.
yes why not? a flacon can jamme you over 100km .... the Gallente recon can dampe you over 100km .. so tell me why not?
if u get Webbt over 100km, u can warp off.. nothink happent to you only the speed reduction... and the rapier/huginn makes zero dmg, like the other recon`s too
yes i know .. the amarr recons starts crying why he can`t nos over 100km ...
but why you should web a enemy over 100km with 3 webs (rapier/huginn kills her "tank"), it makes no sense to me to use the longrange script.
cheers
|
RuleoftheBone
Ataraxia.
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 12:53:00 -
[18]
No.
NO.
NO.
Enough "Cloak Of Freedom" talk.
Mass reduction/AB bonus/Big weapons....thats inline with spaceships and actually matches up to "Assault" frigate.
Leave the web immunity to Baldur's Gate type-games  .
Keep your RPG-infested fingers off my Rapier/Huginn/Hyena too. Not that I fly the Hyena much  .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
|
Crellion
Art of War
Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 13:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Miss Rumpelstilzchen
Edited by: Miss Rumpelstilzchen on 19/06/2008 12:58:07
Originally by: Crellion
How about no? Rapier with 3 webs wbbing at 150kms 4tw? mong...
Problem is with ABs. Web immunity 50%-75% is a very good solution.
yes why not? a flacon can jamme you over 100km .... the Gallente recon can dampe you over 100km .. so tell me why not?
if u get Webbt over 100km, u can warp off.. nothink happent to you only the speed reduction... and the rapier/huginn makes zero dmg, like the other recon`s too
yes i know .. the amarr recons starts crying why he can`t nos over 100km ...
but why you should web a enemy over 100km with 3 webs (rapier/huginn kills her "tank"), it makes no sense to me to use the longrange script.
cheers
//edit:
Originally by: Crellion
Problem is with ABs. Web immunity 50%-75% is a very good solution.
as i allready say, if u make a immunity for AB, how does it look like?
its not a ship bonus, its a modul ... should it look like this? : AB -100% mass reduction (or what ever), and make the webber effection only on the ships mass .. or sig range...
this is not a solution, nano ships cry`s "horray ueber" and the shild tanker cry`s also, becouse there huge sig range (HP buffer)
or .. ha i have the solution :) ...
don`t change it .. becouse its good as it`s now . discussion over .. only proplem are now the "broken" Assault frigs
They get the same range with their EW, namely painters. Webs to 150kms is ludicrous.
Regarding ABs : no they are not ok. When was the last time you saw anyone fit one for pvp? How many are used compared to mwds? = no they are not ok.
Your idea to nerf webs by stealth buffing them has my rofling real hard.
These forums are filled with people who are either (a) clueless or (b) pursuing an agenda.
Really take my advice:
1) Cross train (either on thsi char or on multiple chars)
2) Fly many different races and ships so you understand what balance is
3) then offer opinions 4tw
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Imaos
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 14:09:00 -
[20]
Don't try to script everything. There is already enough flexibility in space. Also longer range and less slowdown doesn't help ABs at all. It is just a hotfix to counter nanos. This game don't need hotfixes. Make the signature radius a real drawback.
Imaos
------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
Miss Rumpelstilzchen
Black Horizon Ltd
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 14:17:00 -
[21]
your right .. im don`t corss train for other races now ...and i dont wana start a flame war in this threat, i only wana know how you would make a AB fix .. i have no idea how, and pleace dont make a solution thats infeasible.
exampl: the script idea : easy to make (for cpp) and not a huge trafic transfair (yes i say this becouse ccp dont wana make somethink that makes more trafic)
|
Spectre3353
The Python Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 15:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
No.
NO.
NO.
Enough "Cloak Of Freedom" talk.
Mass reduction/AB bonus/Big weapons....thats inline with spaceships and actually matches up to "Assault" frigate.
Leave the web immunity to Baldur's Gate type-games .
Keep your RPG-infested fingers off my Rapier/Huginn/Hyena too. Not that I fly the Hyena much .
Rapier + Huginn = insanely strong thanks to the current web mechanics. I think you are just upset someone would even suggest slightly weakening your I WIN button ships.
-----
http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
|
RuleoftheBone
Ataraxia.
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 17:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Spectre3353
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
No.
NO.
NO.
Enough "Cloak Of Freedom" talk.
Mass reduction/AB bonus/Big weapons....thats inline with spaceships and actually matches up to "Assault" frigate.
Leave the web immunity to Baldur's Gate type-games .
Keep your RPG-infested fingers off my Rapier/Huginn/Hyena too. Not that I fly the Hyena much .
Rapier + Huginn = insanely strong thanks to the current web mechanics. I think you are just upset someone would even suggest slightly weakening your I WIN button ships.
Not quite correct...and not an i-win button by any means given the meh DPS. And by meh I mean serious meh.....3 med/2 light T2 drones + a couple guns=forever to drop anything. And I can also get shot/jammed/whatever in return.
Bear in mind in order to scramble you as well I need to get in that 20-24km zone (unless I am faction'd up....you'll never know though til it's too late ).
-Everyone is subject to neuts/TD's...ok except missile boats (Curse/Pilgrim)
-Everyone is subject to EWAR (Rook/Falcon)
-Everyone is subject to damps/LR disruptor..when used right (Lachesis/Arazu)
-Everyone is subject to webs (Rapier/Huginn)
Seems pretty equal to me. With the exception of the Pilgrim the recon classes are amoung the best balanced in the game. And presumably the Pilgrim will get a boost at some point.
The whole point of a Recon ship is as a force multiplier or survivable solo/small gang killer in hostile territory. And if you play and train for a year or so you too can competently fly a Recon yourself and see what I mean.
You can have my awesome Target Painter bonus though  .
Enough web crap. AF's deserve something better than some stupid immunity currently granted only to MOM's and Titans (EWAR immunity for no apparent reason ).
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
|
ZW Dewitt
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 18:20:00 -
[24]
MWD -> Nerf agility when active, would still be useful for approaching something, but not for speed tanking.
AB -> Double the speed bonus to make them more competetive (or alternatively reduce the MWD speed bonus), would make AB better for speed tanking since you could actually orbit something.
|
NoNah
|
Posted - 2008.06.20 00:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Not quite correct...and not an i-win button by any means given the meh DPS. And by meh I mean serious meh.....3 med/2 light T2 drones + a couple guns=forever to drop anything. And I can also get shot/jammed/whatever in return.
Bear in mind in order to scramble you as well I need to get in that 20-24km zone (unless I am faction'd up....you'll never know though til it's too late ).
-Everyone is subject to neuts/TD's...ok except missile boats, droneboats, logistics, ewar (Curse/Pilgrim)
-Everyone is subject to ECM (Rook/Falcon)
-Everyone is subject to damps/LR disruptor..If the opponent is slower than you, starts fighting within 45km(max optimal) and have a targeting range low enough to be affected. Or coupled with an ECM boat. (Lachesis/Arazu)
-Everyone is subject to webs (Rapier/Huginn)
Seems pretty equal to me bar the falcon. With the exception of the Pilgrim the recon classes are amoung the best balanced in the game. And presumably the Pilgrim will get a boost at some point.
The whole point of a Recon ship is as a force multiplier or survivable solo/small gang killer in hostile territory. And if you play and train for a year or so you too can competently fly a Recon yourself and see what I mean.
You can have my awesome Target Painter bonus though .
Enough web crap. AF's deserve something better than some stupid immunity currently granted only to MOM's and Titans (EWAR immunity for no apparent reason ).
Fixed?
Having a Rapier using scripted webs with the above numbers would mean you have the ability to slow down someone by approximately 49%. No, I do not consider that horribly overpowered, keep in mind this is using 4(!) modules. Then again this is using the numbers supplied by someone else and without the signature resolution(mesh resolution) or making it chancebased through falloff.
No forms of immunity are ever good really. |
HarderThisTime
|
Posted - 2008.06.24 17:30:00 -
[26]
At 50% webber resistance a 90% webber would only reduce you by 45%
At 235% speed bonus of an ABII reduced by 45% would leave you at 129.25% speed post 1 webber.
Compared to:
At 650% speed bonus of an MWDII reduced by the full 90% reduction would leave you at 65% speed post 1 webber.
|
HarderThisTime
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 20:53:00 -
[27]
At 37.5% webber resistance, a 90% webber would reduce speed by 56.25%.
On 235% speed boost of ABII, that would reduce speed to 103%, about normal ship speed.
An advanced afterburner skill could coincide with either 10% per level resistance, or 7.5% per level resistance.
Either would grant a great defensive boost vs opponents with either no speed module, or a MWD.
I've thought about this a little bit and I think this could possibly be the appropriate counter to nano. As far as speed is concerned, its all very simple. The ships that are meant to tackle (frigates) are capable of catching nano ships.
The problem is that cruisers/HACs can easily track and kill said ships within webber range. Webbed frigates can easily be tracked by medium guns.
Gangs could use strategy to get a frigate within webber range, and orbit close and fast.
Would also add some strategy to those the cat and mouse game of ganking. Gankers usually fit MWD. All around, MWD is more useful. But what if your intended gankee is fitting an AB? Things become more complicated. Sure 2 will almost always counter 1, but webber resistance on an AB would definitely mix things up.
------------------------------------------------------------
As far as a fix to assault ships are concerned, I think its more an issue of assault ships costing too much, and not having enough slots and grid/cpu with which to pimp them out.
Many have comparable speeds to tech 1 cruisers, less firepower, less tank, and insufficient grid/cpu, mid slots, and low slots.
I don't think attempting to make them a different kind of tackler would fix them. Then simply lack the ability to be pimpable like a HAC can be.
|
TimMc
Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 20:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Elhina Novae
Really i think a Script web would do it.
Change Stasis Webifier too:
45% slow down
20km range.
Now with Script 1:
90% slow down
10km range (as before)
Script 2:
22,5% slow down
40km range.
Or something along these lines?
I would really love this personally, but then I wouldn't want to be webbed 150km away by a Rapier. Interceptors would become useless.
|
Malcanis
We are Legend
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 20:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/06/2008 21:34:44
Originally by: HarderThisTime
Or gave heavy webber resistance?
What kind of effects would this have on tackling, or nano setups?
Fun fact: AB-ing interceptors would solo any turret ship not using neutralizers if it were true. Somewhat overpowered.
Unless said turret ship had, say, a drone bay and/or neutralisers.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |