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Fix for chainspawning of pirates exploit.

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belzebub1	Posted - 2004.05.13 13:02:00 - [1] I am wondering why this is an Exploit If you can get the ships together to handle running a cahinspawan why can we not do it. You make a little bit more isk than you do mining and it is fun. It is also an excellent change of pace from mining and selling on the market especially for smaller corps who can not get to 0.0 to hunt. Some times people cant even stop the chain and loose ships This fix will hurt the smaller corps and people who like to hunt npc's solo and will not effect the larger corps with access to BS rats. Other peoples opinions would be appreciated pls. Rgds Belzebub1 CEO MAGMA INDUSTRIES Dont forget to visit Magma Index at the below Link. http://www.magmaindex.uni.cc/
lickspittle	Posted - 2004.05.13 13:42:00 - [2] Edited by: lickspittle on 13/05/2004 13:43:55 Originally by: belzebub1 I am wondering why this is an Exploit If you can get the ships together to handle running a cahinspawan why can we not do it. You make a little bit more isk than you do mining and it is fun. It is also an excellent change of pace from mining and selling on the market especially for smaller corps who can not get to 0.0 to hunt. Some times people cant even stop the chain and loose ships Chainspawning is the result of a bug thats been there since some time after beta. Its being exploited by some people to their unreasonable benefit and they have been banned because of it. Like all other bugs which are being exploited to an unreasonable degree, it has to be fixed so that others who lack in self-control cannot also exploit it (the GM logs should be fairly clear in showing if someone has exploited it by the way). Now, I know that it adds a bit of depth and makes the spawns more dynamic and we are aware of this. But that doesn't mean we are going to leave it in to be exploited. I do not have anything to say on this other than what I have. Its being exploited and will be fixed. -- Richard CCP Programmer. Anything said above is not the official line, but my own take or opinion.
StiZum Hilidii	Posted - 2004.05.13 13:54:00 - [3] Edited by: StiZum Hilidii on 13/05/2004 13:56:31 chaining shouldnt be an exploit ... you cant fix it in the time from beta thats you problem mate... also i think about 7 months ago i used to chain ban me quick i made 8 mill every 3 hours if i was truely up for it..i mean common dude STAN FACTA NON VERBA
Fuffel	Posted - 2004.05.13 13:55:00 - [4] Edited by: Fuffel on 13/05/2004 13:58:28 Quote: they have been banned because of it. its just another way to make isk? - g
Maule	Posted - 2004.05.13 13:55:00 - [5] Edited by: Maule on 13/05/2004 14:07:21 Edited by: Maule on 13/05/2004 14:05:14 you want us all to mine all day ? I cant really see the problem whit it.. ppl are mining ark allday and makes billions. some ppl dont want to mine becurse its to boring so they go to chain spawning.. it dont give asmuch as nining but it gives good loot. and taking that away from them is a bad idear imo. becurse not all want to mine all day to get some isk and they will end up being broke.... there should be other ways to make money other than mining... there is agent missions but thats allso boring imo. bounty hunting is to hard to find out as its hard to find the players your looking for.. then there is the pvp¦ers. I dunno but I dont think that there is many of them there want to mine to get money for ships, modules, insurence ammo and missiles and clone. They will go to chain spawning for the loot and the isk for insurence and clones/ammo... Edit: Spelling errors
Shevar	Posted - 2004.05.13 14:03:00 - [6] Ahwell atleast we will now be able of mining all crock/bist/arak rocks in a belt now instead of only a bunch.. But still sucks if you ask me, its hard to find a spawn at the right strength as it is (ie. that you just can just kill it instead of wtfpwning it or get pwned by the spawn) now if you got alot of patience (specially the case for guristas) you can keep killing the same spawn. If its removed you gotta waste an hour with searching and loot picking for each spawn you kill -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Katchin	Posted - 2004.05.13 14:04:00 - [7] chaining is still much less profitable than mining. now you want to nerf it more?
Sirr Hammer	Posted - 2004.05.13 14:09:00 - [8] vell if we cant chain npc ships .i most like vil make 4 alt carekters and start slouther newbis in empire all day..nothing els for fun in the game..
Susan Chase	Posted - 2004.05.13 14:10:00 - [9] Your game lacks scope. Atm there is 1. mining 2. agent mission 3. chaining 4. Building 5. PVP 1. is boring as hell. YOU DEV's should all get together for 4 hrs and go mining. Then you'll finally understand what we are talking about. 2. Is so repetativetativetative and unimaginative that it just pains me to even consider doing. YOU DEV's should spend 4 hrs doing agent missions and find out what your trying to convince us is "fun". 3. Chaining is ok. You can make a reasonable amount of isk and for BS chaining it can be done most effectively in a group. \o/ something I like doing that isn't shooting other players. Running from belt to belt to belt just to find a spawn (like we have to do to start a chain going) is fking boring. Also getting a group of ppl together just incase there may be a BS spawn is gonna be next to impossible. You are only nerfing a side of this game that promotes team play. GO YOU 4. Building, nicely implemented but only takes a few mins everyday to keep a market running. Also requires a LARGE investment to get going. 5. PVP, I have seen the light! So now tell me, why are you getting rid of something that is semi fun? This may be considered an exploit by you. but I'm pretty sure anyone who has ever hunted npc's considers it normal game play. I mean ffs this game has been running for over a year now and you still haven't fixed this??? Anyway well done for fking ppl off again. Susan Chase signing off PS where is my DEV Voodoo doll? I've just bought a new box of pins!!!
Bo Peep	Posted - 2004.05.13 14:21:00 - [10] FOOLS! Why don't you fix something that matters to your gaming comunity? I mean that CAP bug is still about... /sarcasm on You know I've seen ships chain mining asteroids. Maybe you should make mining lasers overheat so they can only be used for 5 minutes at a time? Yeah thats a great idea!!! I'm sure miners would love to mine for 5 mins. Fly around for 10 to wait for them to cool. then mine again for 5mins. OMG I must be as smart as a dev team member! /sarcasm off Seriously though. Think harder about this.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.05.13 14:34:00 - [11] Just to clarify, "chainspawning" as mentioned here and was being exploited is not the ability to kill pirates in large amounts. Chainspawning being mentioned here is this scenario: Under certain circumstances you could generate - because of a bug - an situation that spawned up to 1 pirate PER SECOND. This is an exploit. Pirate hunting will still be lucrative and a valid profession, there is a task force seeing to that, which includes game designers and a group of players that live by hunting pirates. And if you don't already read Dev Blogs, I suggest checking this out which is done to further add to the pirate hunting profession. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
UniC	Posted - 2004.05.13 15:31:00 - [12] So keeping a spawn and chaining it and then mabe going to a point where they respawn mabe like 3 times / 10mins is still doable and not considered an exploit?
belzebub1	Posted - 2004.05.13 16:19:00 - [13] Thanks for the feedback DEVS Dont forget to visit Magma Index at the below Link. http://www.magmaindex.uni.cc/
Nightfang	Posted - 2004.05.13 16:19:00 - [14] Edited by: Nightfang on 13/05/2004 16:21:00 I think this is hillarious. I make a post saying multiple MWD on cruisers and BS puts a big foot in the arse that is PvP and get flamed for "being a lazy pirate who just wants to gank indefinately". Now here the devs are talking about fixing your exploiting and I see the same people crying like babies because they make ISK of that very exploit. Trying to justify their exploiting by calling the other professions boring. So to the same people who flamed me I only have this to say: You're just lazy exploiting carebears who wants to make ISK indefinately. Man, that felt good... can't wait to see this go.
Maule	Posted - 2004.05.13 16:27:00 - [15] Nightfang: Dunno what your talking about whit the mwd¦s and stuff. But I as a pvp¦er dont want to suck roids for making isk. and I wont wanna spend hour after hour to get some good isk on killing rats I cant chain. okay it might sound a bit insane that npc¦s spawn every 1 sec when the spawn gets up and running.. but instead of removing the chain spawning in all make them spawn slower.. should not be so hard to do....
ElCoCo	Posted - 2004.05.13 16:33:00 - [16] pfew... /emote wipes sweat off forehead.... While you're watching this thread devs.... can you please make the npc BS's to not drop BASIC items..... 1mn afterburners....etc etc ? Thank you kindly
Kronarty	Posted - 2004.05.13 16:58:00 - [17] You classify exploit as the spawning of a pirate every second... Does that mean that it will still be possible to chain, but in a slower fashion? If not, why not? Where is the limit? Why not set it there? Is it that hard to code a delay into the spawning process? If there is not going to be a respawn, PLEASE increase (by a lot) the quality of the loot, because the drop rate of good modules is ridiculously low and if no respawns are allowed then the named mods market (a perfectly legitimate way of making isk) is gonna disappear.
Kalki Nibiru	Posted - 2004.05.13 17:25:00 - [18] Lickspittle or Oveur, is it possible to implement a sliding scale system where the time you take to kill an entire spawn is taken into account and the game "beefs up" the spawns until you reach a sweet spot? For example, I start killing mixed frigates and cruiser spawns, I dispatch them quite rapidly, the game sees this and sends in re-inforcements earlier than normal but with the addition of a few more frigates, I kill them off quite rapidly again, the game now speeds up the timer again, but this time throws a cruiser into the mix and ups the bounty (difficulty) on some of the frigates. The spawns would keep adjusting to give you a challenge relative to the security level you are in (for example security system 0.X would start out with spawns having a bounty of "A", but would beef up and top out to a spawn of having only frigates with a bounty of "AB"). The example in a 0.0 system would be someone in a battleship taking on a spawn in a system that traditionally only has frigates and cruisers, as the fighting continues, if the player takes out the spawns fast enough, maybe at the top end (the cap on the spawn) there would be the lowest level battleship NPC spawning. Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate . <Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market? <Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with
R Dan	Posted - 2004.05.13 17:30:00 - [19] its an exploit??!? eh? but its what NPC rat hunters go for. Battleship NPC spawns are going to be unfought now, they require a few BS to take them down, and thats not going to happen with the current spawn rules. a 4 cruiser spawn doesnt need 3 friendly bs's so when the 2 or 3 Battleship spawn arrives it wont be fought. Bite me....for i taste good :)
Ma'at	Posted - 2004.05.13 17:31:00 - [20] whats the problem with chainspawning! we are working for our isk. we consider it less boring then mining or the wonderful agent missions where the only worthy prize is an implant we cant use macros, unlike the miners, so whats the problem ffs. if it gets to the point where i have to mine to support my pvping then im off
Cacciatore	Posted - 2004.05.13 17:34:00 - [21] well, having read this thread I'm either missing something, or something needs to be clarified. What exactly is the degree to which chaining becomes an exploit, or is it chaining in general that you wish to put an end to? I for one would hate to see a total end put to chaining as it is, perhaps putting a cap on the rate at which they will spawn after a time would be best, but I feel that ending it all-together would cause a lot of players to grow quite bored and not enjoying the game. my 2 isk. Something is only impossible when you refuse to try Kills
Tatsue Nuko	Posted - 2004.05.13 17:46:00 - [22] It's pretty funny - the only time I've had a chainspawn was when I was mining. One rat from a ratspawn didn't attack me, but stayed stationary some way off (and I didn't want to bother flying into drone range). After a few hours of mining (and no, I don't think mining is necessarily boring, you just need to have something else to do, like hanging out in La Maison and chatting to some friends) the spawns start coming at a horrendous pace. Was really annoying... =) Anyway, I actually think chainspawns should be removed completely, because it's silly. Sure, it will make NPC hunting a bit tougher, but that'd be alleviated with a price rise on looted mods (as they would become more rare). Why silly, you ask? Well, if you and your mates hang around in a system, and a few of you get ganked in a belt, repeatedly, what course of action do you take: a) continue flying in there to be killed or b) accept the fact that you can't win that fight and stand down from an obviously superior foe.
X 00	Posted - 2004.05.13 18:15:00 - [23] Edited by: X 00 on 13/05/2004 18:20:39 This makes me sad I guess if devs say it's an exploit then it is, but the benefit from it is far from unreasonable.Chaining an average npc spawn in 0.0 (non battleship spawn worth between 220k isk to 350k isk total) nets about 4 mil an hour in bounty if you're on your own(roughly). The same amount or more can be made mining ark,bistot etc. whatever...in those 0.0 systems. I fail to see how I am unreasonably benfitting, by making the same amount of money as I would from mining, for an identical length of time.The npc loot drops are such junk I don't ever waste time picking them up. When it comes to chaining battleships, i've never had the chance but have seen it done, it takes probably at least 4 or 5 battleships(for most people) in order to create and maintain a chain.Say one battleship spawn is worth around 1.9 million in bounty, if you have a couple of 750k rats and 6 *65k, that makes 380k isk per person because the total is split between the gang(and there's always a gang). Considering the speed at which larger battleship npc's die , even with a large gang, I can't see the profit in bounties being THAT much more than the already perfectly reasonable amount you can make chaining cruiser spawns on your own.The loot is rarely fantastic from battleship npc's as far as I am aware, and never any better than the equivalent tech 2. I would really like to know why the nice dev person thinks this can be considered making 'unreasonable' gains, or if anyone else thinks my calculations or opinions are somehow way off the mark. I understand that chaining of npc's may put extra load on the servers which they are unable to cope with, and if this is the case then that would be a fair reason, but I'd rather the devs just come out and say so rather than getting all accusatory, as if players are making billions a second by chaining which is far from the case. I'd also like to add that banning people for chaining, is excessive, whichever way you look at it. Thank you.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.05.13 19:09:00 - [24] The link provided above seems to suggest an increase in over NPC spawning, and smaller overall spawns. Sounds like it has potential. Way back last summer I didn't chain at all, I just picked a system with lots of belts and jumped from belt to belt. Was more fun than chaining I must admit, although certainly more work. We'll see. A bad nerf with no alternative will lose a lot of subscriptions though, so I hope you guys get it right. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Kaji	Posted - 2004.05.13 20:02:00 - [25] It's ironic that one of the best PvE features in EVE is actually considered a bug after almost one year of players openly using it, not just a couple of bad apples in the crowd, there were threads here teaching how to do it with no locking or comment by the devs. With this I hope someone realises that, if many players are only finding decent fun and profit in the NPC hunting business because of an exploit, there's something lacking in the official PvE department.
Zazita	Posted - 2004.05.13 20:59:00 - [26] This is absolutly 100% rediculous. Something can not be an exploit unless the said "exploit" shows unreasonable and unbalanced gains versus risk. As a chain starts respawning faster the risk goes WAY up. If its a BS spawn were talking about, you better pray you have your **** together or you lose your ship POP boom, quiker than microwave popcorn. This is so incredibly infuriating, in addition to the missle and tracking nerfs. I refuse to mine, run missions. I play this game to have fun, not start at a digital image of a rock or fly a ship with no capabilities execpt a large cargo.... NPC chaining is the only resonable exiting way to make isk. You better pray you get this balance right with the next patch or all your precious "PvPers" will find real PvP games to play. I also want to say, please get the new patch right, nerfs at this stage 1 year after beta, are absolutly rediculous and i currently enjoy playing and do not wish to be a orphan. Please dont take this as a flame, just trying to strongly voice my concern for a patch that imo changes to manny aspects of the game and unbalances things that are currently FINE.
Ehxo	Posted - 2004.05.13 21:25:00 - [27] Pardon my ignorance but even though I was in beta as well, I've never heard of that "spawnchaining" term before. Can someone enlighten me on this please?
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.05.13 21:27:00 - [28] STOP. What is being fixed is NOT the periodic spawns. It's a way of speeding UP those periodic spawns to a ludicrous degree. GO. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
FireLord	Posted - 2004.05.13 22:18:00 - [29] nerfing chainspawning so totally is a really REALLY bad move. simple as that. mind you i think we should be used to this kind of overreaction from CCP. Only sad theres no way that anything as worthwhile or at all fulfilling will be implemented instead. I seriously get the impression that CCP wants us all to make our isk by mining (oh wait they'll nerf jetcan mining next, and TOTALLY tank the whole eve economy, let alone just the rare drops market).
Synapse Archae	Posted - 2004.05.13 22:26:00 - [30] I agree that classifying chainspawning as an exploit is a very bad idea. It fits in very nicely now as a combat alternative to mining, that still makes a reasonable amoutn of ISK, althought not as much, as mining. Chainspawning is just mining of the NPCs instead of asteroids. Please don't force everyone to mine in order to make any reasonable amount of money. Not only is chainspawning one of the only viable alternatives to mining, it is also the only opportunity to make money for combat oriented players (I havent made a cent aside from fighting npcs since I started defending our alliance). Futhermore, chainspawning is really fun! --------------------------------------------- [/IMG]http://millerfam.org/eve/synapse_logo.jpg[/IMG] Everyone deserves a chance to live. My job is to make sure they get it.

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