Originally by: Hydrian Battlecorre

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Yeah i support minmatar getting some more love 100%...i dunno if it was in this thread or not but i really love the idea of the "exploding" arty shells that kinda work like smartbombs...

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Originally by: Trojanman190

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Originally by: Transmaniacon

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Originally by: AstroPhobic

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Originally by: Hydrian Battlecorre

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Yeah i support minmatar getting some more love 100%...i dunno if it was in this thread or not but i really love the idea of the "exploding" arty shells that kinda work like smartbombs...

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The best solution for arty is to give them a meaningful alpha again. But we're not going to get it

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What about a higher calibre artillery cannon, something like an 1800mm Siege Cannon. 1800mm -> Tachyon, so there are 3 tiers of weapons to fall in line with most other weapons. It could have the high alpha, lower tracking, but enormous alpha, and a higher range, making it more appropriate for POS killing and fleet engagements. Or just replace the 1400mm with a 1800mm cannon, giving one the tracking (1200), and the other the damage we all want so badly.

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or they could FIX 1400s.

Adding a new gun just means nobody will use the lower ones. Does anyone use 1200mm for sniping and fleet?

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Originally by: Siddy

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Edited by: Siddy on 31/07/2008 19:09:02
Devs are fully awear of this, thy dont see this as top or even near any priority list since we got 3 workking rances.


train amarr

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Edited by: Liang Nuren on 05/08/2008 05:54:46
Artillery Boost Options:
- Double damage, halve ROF (4.8% DPS increase due to reload)
- Triple damage, cut ROF to a third (6.6% DPS increase due to reload).
- Double clip size (4.8% DPS increase due to reload)
- Triple clip size (6.6% DPS increase due to reload)
- Increase tracking

AC Boost Options:
- Higher tier weapons gain higher falloff
- Higher tier weapons gain noticeably higher damage potential
- AC gain higher tracking

General Projectile Boost Options:
- EMP should be boosted so that it has the same damage as other short range ammo
- All ammos should have a "range modifier". This should affect both optimal and falloff. This option gets bonus points because it boosts all races, but Minmatar the most.
- Tracking Computers/Enhancers/Links should affect falloff. This should affect both optimal and falloff. This option gets bonus points because it boosts all races, but Minmatar the most. It also serves to provide falloff based weapons (Projectiles, Blasters) with a prayer of countering unbonused TD's.

Hmm, I should come up with some more, but this might suffice to get us back on track.

-Liang

Ed: I bolded the ones I like. :)
Ed2: I must admit that while I do think it would be a small nerf to Matari fleet utility... it'd make the game much better in nearly all situations outside of a fleet.
Ed3: New favorites. :)

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What is this. Santas wish list? Seriously have you given some of these options even 2 seconds of thought? Tripple damage + cut rof to a third? You have any idea what kind of redicilously overpowered alpha strike that would give some ships? Sorry but some ideas are just too laughable to even start to argue against.

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Veryez

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Edited by: Veryez on 05/08/2008 18:48:41

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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What is this. Santas wish list? Seriously have you given some of these options even 2 seconds of thought? Tripple damage + cut rof to a third? You have any idea what kind of redicilously overpowered alpha strike that would give some ships? Sorry but some ideas are just too laughable to even start to argue against.

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Did you have a reason for posting? They're overpowered because you say so? With all your vast Minmatar experience? But then you probably believe the Apoc needs another boost. Crawl back under your bridge troll.

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I haz common sense unlike some in here. I told you nano needed a nerf. CCP nerfed it. I'm telling you now falcons are OP, some day youll see Im right. You all also some day realise CCP is not going to double or tripple alpha strikes on artillery. You'll see it some day.

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Originally by: Clavius XIV

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The tripple clip size is much more likely to get implemeted, for comperable dps. While some alpha boost on artillary may be work looking at for keeping racial flavor, I think CCP is very reluctant to go down that path very far given that they want to make combat last longer.

The issue isn't just solo instapoping crusiers. Solo is not the only use for alpha, it applies in gang also. If two tempests can instapop a crusier I don't think they would take much more solace in being instapopped. If you have say 10 tempests vs 10 megas (just using as example of high alpha vs very low alpha), not even 10 pests can instapop a mega. But 30 tempests could. You triple alpha and now 10 pest can one volly a Mega, making a lot of difference in the outcome. Point being that alpha balance is more than "well as long as a single ship can't pop another single ship in one volly any amount of alpha is fine".

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Transmaniacon

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To be honest, its the kind of alpha minmatar should have... Were talking something like 12000 alpha on a maelstrom, which still isnt enough to instapop a cruiser, and with the RoF penalty, you would fire maybe 2 times in a minute... I think doubling the damage and halving the RoF is an appropriate tradeoff; It gives us the alpha we should have, the clip size becomes less of a factor, and artillery will finally have a role again.

Edit: And it gives minmatar that "oh sh!t" factor, because a volley from a maelstrom will hurt

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Double alpha? No way, it will never happen. It will be crazy overpowered. Stick to reasonable suggestions...

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Originally by: AstroPhobic

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Edited by: AstroPhobic on 05/08/2008 20:42:01
Here's a thought: Raise all minmatar sensor strength, give artillery their 3x alpha, and watch falcons instapop. Two birds, one stone?

Oh man, wordplay.

Edit: Finally a use for these lovely mids

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Originally by: EpicFailTroll

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Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 13/08/2008 15:40:06

Originally by: AstroPhobic

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You're playing theorycraft and losing. How do you honestly think you'll use an AB vaga to get inside web range of a ship with a MWD? Have you thought about this at all?

PS. If you're fitting afterburners in 0.0 (post patch, pre patch, whatever) you fail and you will die.

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Can you use any other ship than vaga as an example? you're only embarrassing yourself.
A ship with MWD but bad agility/acceleration -that is, most ships except minmatar- can be caught with a mimatar ship (good agility, acceleration) using AB. Breaking news!

PS: cancel your subscription. You're the kind of player that lobbyes against anything addressing the dumbing down of combat mechanics. MWD nerf ushers new dynamics and possibilities, that scares you.

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Originally by: EpicFailTroll

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Originally by: Transmaniacon

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Even after the patch, a ship with an MWD will outrun a similar ship with an AB. Claiming improved agility and acceleration (both of which have been lowered) are not enough to account for the speed differences of the modules. A ship with an AB will not catch a ship with an MWD of the same class. Therefore, that AB ship you keep describing will now be left chasing the target and in perfect position to be killed. The only ships that can orbit with an AB under tracking are the assault ships due to the low signature radius. Cruisers can not perform this, so stop beating a dead horse.

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Agility, acceleration, and maneuvering: you need to test that, and not rely on keep at range/orbit all the time.

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Originally by: EpicFailTroll

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: EpicFailTroll

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Oh hai. Im a little troll. Bubbles do not exist, you never need to get back to gates, or get in range, ABs are fully viable and look, I just trolled your thread.

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Stop trolling.

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You're just a nanos****hoping to still be able to fly your vagabond the way you always have: with no risk. Reread my above posts for explanation why AB is viable in an environment where MWD is nullified by scrambler. 0.0 operations are not meant for solo btw.

All minmatar problems would be solved by this MWD nerf. That's the sad truth. EFT says it.

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Originally by: EpicFailTroll

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Originally by: Transmaniacon

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Even at the current state of the game, where Minmatar can reach 'ludicrous' speeds and avoid damage, they are still beat by other races. Speed helped us mitigate incoming fire, but we still fall behind when it comes to dealing damage. You can not win a battle by avoiding damage, you have to go on the offensive. This entire thread is devoted to how to fix Large Projectiles, and specifically the Tempest battleship. Giving Minmatar BS a chance in terms of damage output is what needs to be fixed. Nerfing MWDs is not going to "fix Minmatar". As dozens of posts have shown, MWDs are a staple of modern Eve combat. They are required for survival in 0.0, and generally mandatory in all other forms of pvp. Your argument about AB becoming superior in the coming patch is not valid simply because the benefits of MWD outweigh those of AB, and the entirety of Eve combat practices are not going to change. Lets finish this tangent about propulsion and Minmatar, and get back to discussing the actual problem at hand, their offensive capabilities.

/tangent

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0.0 is not meant for lone nanoers thinking they're top pilots just because they can evade most things. They need to be taught a lesson, and the MWD nerf would take care of that. Fleet wouldn't be affected. Nobody is going to go and scramble ships in a blob. Fleet will still use MWD.

AB becoming the main propulsion module in non-blob types of engagements helps minmatar BS. They can't go at autocannon optimal lest they be blasterized into rivets, and fighting at their optimal + falloff yields crappy DPS. If most ships fit ABs, fearing to have zero speed boost available due to MWD reactivation delay should they fit one, you get the chance to fight in the lower part of your falloff without your opponent closing on you. You can even fit viable artillery fits with the extra grid. You have better cap, allowing for increased neuting. This is actually a big point since projectile don't consume cap and the compulsory MWD griefs your capacitor.
The cons are reduced sig of your adversary since he doesn't fit ABs, but your smaller sig doesn't implode either so damage is more mitigated than in the case of both adversaries using MWD.

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Originally by: EpicFailTroll

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- If MWD reactivation delay is implemented, everybody is going to fit AB in medium/small gangs: it will take a few seconds more to get back on gate, less than half a minute more to exit a bubble (remember it takes a while to fill the last quarter of your speedometer, MWD top speed is theoretical and seldom reached)

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Originally by: Veryez

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Originally by: Ranvaldy

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Edited by: Ranvaldy on 14/08/2008 01:33:42

I said IF they get the buff then we could also get a slight buff.Oh ye strongest when u have like shitloads of SP+Perfect cap skills etc.I was sweating till i didnt have the perfect cap skills+T2 Pulses to do lvl 4 missions alone or this game is for only players who has every skill on lvl 5 ?So i just /afk the game for 2 years then i come back and i pwn as amarr right ?

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Of all the Amarr whines I've seen, the "We have to train so many SPs" has NO place in a Minmatar thread. You have no idea what 'having to train a lot of skills' really means.....

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Originally by: AstroPhobic

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: Transmaniacon

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Ok guys, heres the plan. At fanfest, get some devs really drunk and then trick them into signing a contract confirming they will give Minmatar some love. But don't worry, our plan is safe here

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We have successfully derailed this thread for what must be three pages without anyone noticing

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I swear I could throw the most awful insults at whomever I want - it doesn't matter as long as it's in a minmatar thread.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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W00t! minmatar derailing their own threads?! Brilliant! My job is done here.

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It's all about the post count.

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