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Kraonna
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Posted - 2008.06.20 03:16:00 -
[1]
Very simple question...my railguns can hit NOTHING. They never have since day one. I always look at the optimal range setting and try to orbit at that...but...nothing. Just for fun...I would only fire the railguns and no missles and then tank...just to see if they EVER hit...nope. Is there a 'how to hit the broad side of a barn with railguns' skill I need to train? Are the others as bad (laser, pulse...etc). I currently have skills trained where I can start using 450mm...but, dont want to bother is guns simply cant hit. (I try differnt ammo...but mainly Anti and Iron)
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.20 03:28:00 -
[2]
Railguns are ranged weapons that cannot hit small, fast, or close-orbiting targets. Yes they're as bad as the long range versions of lasers (Beam Lasers) or projectiles (Artillery).
Never had problems hitting at 15 km in frigate vs frigate, 30 km cruiser vs cruiser, 50 km BS vs BS. They do have trouble hitting smaller ship (425mm battleship rails will hit a cruiser if it's not moving at all, and will not hit a frigate even if it stands still).
You need to show info on your rails and memorize the "tracking" number. Then you need to open your Overview settings and add "Angular Velocity" as a column. As long as any ship of equal size has an angular velocity smaller than your guns' tracking, your guns will hit. If the ship is smaller than you, you'll have trouble, though, even at low angular.
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Johann Callasan
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Posted - 2008.06.20 03:36:00 -
[3]
Okeh, I'll just say that it's VERY possible to hit things with railguns in EvE - I do it with rats all the time. It can be quite effective, too.
Your first problem is, the charges you're using all have a negative effect on range. Antimatter charges HALVE your optimum range - in exchange for damage-dealing capability. So, that fancy 150mm Railgun you were using with a 10K range? Use antimatter, your "optimum" range is 5K. Try orbiting at 10K range using antimatter - you're outside both optimal AND falloff range. No wonder you're not hitting if that's what you're doing.
In EvE, you havr to pay attention to four things when outfitting a ship: the intended purpose (up close slugger/tank or sniper-style), the ranges and damage multiplier of your weapon, the damage done and the RANGE MULTIPLIER of your AMMO, and the tracking speed of your weapons for the intended task.
There are ships that you can outfit to be jack-of-all-trades styles of ships - as a general rule, they're only good for PvE. Those ships being destroyers (anti-frigate) and BCs for cruiser-class.
Let's take a example: I used to fly a Caldari Merlin before I got into destroyer-class for Tier 1 missions. I wanted a sniper, so I outfitted it for long-range. That meant two missile launchers and two railguns. I used two 150mm Compressed Coil railguns (20KM range without skills and ammo modifiers), and two Standard Missile Launcher 1s.
I used Uranium Ammo, which was -12% to range.
With the appropriate skills, I was hitting things with my raiilguns from 20KM away. Thise skills were: Small Hybrid Turret 4 (adds damage), Gunnery 4 (adds to weapon ROF), Motion Prediction 2 (increases tracking speed by 10% at level 2), Sharpshooter 2 (increases optimal range by 10% at level 2) Controlled Bursts level2 (lessens cap usage).
Most rats, even in CRUISER-CLASS ones, died to my Merlin with that setup. To be specific, Level 1 rats flying Exequerors and Thorax.
It can be done, you just need to train your skills up. Also, bear in mind that the railguuns I'm using are for sniping - when the enemy gets up-close and personal, you want blasters simply because - the shorter the range ont he weapon, the better the tracking speed. The better the tracking speed, the better it can hit close targets.
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.20 03:56:00 -
[4]
Yeah, you're supposed to use rails in "long range" setups; basically, load long range charges (iron, iridium), shoot from far away, and try to keep angular speeds low. If anything gets close and orbits you at fast speeds, rails won't hit.
The ammo modifies the range of weapons drastically, HUGE differences between iron and antimatter.
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Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2008.06.20 04:38:00 -
[5]
If they sucked as bad as you're saying they do, everyone would be using missiles, now wouldn't they?
First of all orbiting your tracking cannot keep up obviously. You use keep range command. You also use tracking computers and enhancers to boost your tracking. You load long range ammo and hope you can snipe at NPCs from range that they cannot hit you.
Second, what are you firing at? If you're using medium rails to hit frigates or large rails to hit cruisers then you're not hitting because of signature resolution. Try to use railguns of same size as the size of your target.
And finally where exactly in the optimal range are you trying to keep your targets? Optimal range is a rather large stretch of space but your guns will hit well only at the very edge of it - http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_5.asp
Lasers have better tracking than hybrids that in turn have better tracking than projectiles, but if you aren't using your guns correctly then all of them will suck.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.06.20 05:16:00 -
[6]
If you're using railguns.. DONT use a MWD at the same time 
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Baka Lakadaka
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.20 05:55:00 -
[7]
Both our Wolfpacks and especially fly-by Sniper courses use rails for the many of the setups. You can definitely hit and hit very hard using rails if you're setup right.
Things to note for using rails:
1) don't try to hit small fast tagets that are close up and have high transversal.
2) don't go too fast yourself, i.e turn off the MWD
3) watch your optimal and fall-off, fit the right ammo for the range you expect to fight at.
4) the bigger the railgun, the worse the tracking, so bigger guns are used at longer ranges (generally speaking).
5) small fast targets need small fast guns, fit the right size for the engagement. If in doubt about the enemy, go smaller as small guns can still hit big targets (and if you've got enough of them, do significant damage). Big guns rarely hit small targets.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.06.20 06:59:00 -
[8]
I'm assuming that the character you post with is the character which tries to use rails. If you have trained up to start using 425's already that means you have no support skills whatsoever since you're just 13 days into the game. Apart from that there's a few things to remember;
- you NEED the Motion prediction skill trained, get it to 4 asap
- using the biggest gun you can officially fit is a bad idea most of the time, go for the somewhat smaller one. You'll hit less far and hard, but you'll actually hit stuff
- long range weapons hate transversal, they also hate short range targets. So keep your transversal down (don't orbit so much at speed), use a webifier and use drones to take out the small, shortrange stuff
- tracking=damage, I'll repeat again; tracking=damage. EFT won't tell you that and most people kinda forget about that part since most people don't really think about what they're doing. Fit tracking enhancers/computers when needed
- check the tracking on the turret you have and then add angular velocity on the overview, that will show you what you can hit or not
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Shanur
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.20 07:49:00 -
[9]
Don't orbit. Use Keep at range instead. With Rail guns you rely on range and alpha to give you the edge. Speed tanking is best done with blasters or AC's. |
Arkeladin
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Posted - 2008.06.21 14:34:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Shanur
Don't orbit. Use Keep at range instead. With Rail guns you rely on range and alpha to give you the edge. Speed tanking is best done with blasters or AC's.
I'd agree on a stationary target; on a target that's actively trying to approach you (i.e. most rats) there's no functional difference between orbit and "keep At" co0mmands - save that it's a heckuva lot easier to keep a good distance with "orbit".
At a certain point in it's orbit, the AI wiull fly your ship directly away from a enemy trying to approach you when you use the Orbit command, achieveing the same effect as "Keep At" and naturally kiting. Plus, it's a lot easier to tell the AI to "orbit" a 15K range, than it is to tell it to "Keep At" the same range, when the only choices for "Keep At" are 250m, 500m, and a "Custom" setting that's never saved (not on my system, anyway :(
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Stanya
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Posted - 2008.06.21 14:38:00 -
[11]
Umm, you can set the "keep at" range to be anything, just like on the orbit command
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
TRUST Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.21 14:56:00 -
[12]
Also 'keep at range' seeks to minimise transversal, whereas 'orbit' is trying to maximise transversal. Occasionally, against a faster ship, it won't be able to do this and will head directly away. However, keep at range will do exactly the same thing in this situation, and will behave better in other situations; so there is no reason not to use it when you're just trying to keep range.
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Ubik Null
The Ore House
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Posted - 2008.06.21 15:06:00 -
[13]
As stated, keep at range, minimize your transversal velocity.
Another point worth noting is to take into account the signature resoloution of the railgun in question. You'll need to find a gun that has a sig resoloution that matches the target size for maximum damage. If you can fire at 50-60 km with mediums, while your closing straight in, you'll do pretty well. Works well if you're kiting on missions as well.
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Arkeladin
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Stanya
Umm, you can set the "keep at" range to be anything, just like on the orbit command
Mind cluing me in then on how to set a default range for "Keep At" that the client will actually *remember*?
I've tried to set a "Keep At" range of 15KM for all of my ships, and the setting doesn't save, meaning I have to approach, then when I'm at the range I want select "Keep At -> Current". Can be just another thing to remember, IU guess...unless there's a trick to it.
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Lord Haur
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:22:00 -
[15]
That would be by right clicking the Keep-at-range button in the "Selected Item" window, then it should become obvious :)
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Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
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Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:48:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vladimir Ilych on 22/06/2008 08:49:57
I can hit anything down to and including cruisers fine with my 1200mms. To do this I just head directly away from the target. If it is to close I turn on the AB.
Turn on your on your tatcical overview.
It shows you a direct line to your current target. Head in the opposite direction. If you hover your cursor over your weapons modules it shows max and optimal ranges. Then slect ammo to taste.
Try to get to your skills to the levels below
Controlled Bursts to 4
Gunnery to 5
Motion Prediction to 4
Rapid Fire to 4
Sharpshooter to 4
Surgical Strike to 4
Trajectory Analysis to 4
Weapon upgrades to 5
Advanced Weapon Upgardes to 4
Your setup can help to. Tracking computers (mids) or enchancers (lows)
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Ancy Denaries
Under Heavy Fire
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lord Haur
That would be by right clicking the Keep-at-range button in the "Selected Item" window, then it should become obvious :)
Also, do remember that this sets the DEFAULT keep at range to whatever you set it to. It will NOT alter the right click menu. But click the rat, then click the "Keep at..." button and the default setting will kick in.
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