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CodeFreeze
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:35:00 -
[1]
Suppose I set up trade between two systems 5 light years apart. I start off and carry my goods from system A to system B via the stargate.
Now, since system B is five light years away, by jumping to B I have travelled back in time 5 years.
Now when I return to system A via the stargate, again a jump back in time a further 5 years, thus arriving in the system 10 years before I left!
If I repeat this 100 times, I will have travelled back 1000 years.
If I took an exceptionally long jump, say 8000 lightyears with my cargo of omber I could well have trouble selling my wares as the local inhabitants haven't got around to inventing money yet. I may also have trouble leaving the system as no stargate has been built yet!
Another neat trick (and I've tried this, it works):
I spend all evening in a station bar getting slaughtered on Pan-Galactic Gargle Blasters. I then warp 2 light hours away and warp back, a total of 4 hours back in time. I then join myself in the same bar! In fact I can repeat this until the whole bar is filled with identical me's (with the difference that some will be considerably more drunk than others), which would make for an indescribably boring evening 
Makes ya think don't it?
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Harcole
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:40:00 -
[2]
not to flame or anything, but you don't travel back in time... its all to do with that Albert bloke... 
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Hippey
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:41:00 -
[3]
Pardon me if I'm wrong but your physics calculations are wrong. How long does it take you to travel 1 light year? Is it instant? If it takes you 30 seconds then you've only gained 30 seconds, not a whole year. And you can't go back in time, you can only go forward, or rather, time will pass slower for you then the rest.
-------------------------------------------
If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
Alastra
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:42:00 -
[4]
You should read the Frederic Brown's story about the box that appears two minutes before you put it on the time travel machine.
And then someone asked what would have happened if you didn't put the box in the machine?
Nuponi Nimedaz: "You're a pilot after my own heart, Alastra." |
Carino
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:44:00 -
[5]
Isn't based on a speed, the distance light would travel in one year and not time travel, we are covering a distance in space every second, not a year in time every light-year we travel 
Maybe I read it wrong or have no idea what its all about but to me that looks rather dumb.
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Vendora
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:44:00 -
[6]
Except it would only be good for future travel;
On what you are saying - Assuming minimal time passes for you in the jump both the systems would have moved on 5 years by the time you arrived (relativity).
If you had a new-born child when you left the first time and completed 7 return journeys then on your last return your 'child' would be 70.
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CodeFreeze
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:47:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Harcole
not to flame or anything, but you don't travel back in time... its all to do with that Albert bloke...
Excuse me... but a stargate jumps you instantly to a different system. Surely you know that solar systems are light years apart? If you accept the possibility of stargates, you have to accept time travel!
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Jay Gatsby
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:49:00 -
[8]
hmmm... looks up laymans's guide to the theory of general relativity (again)...
FTL travel doesn't mean you're going backwards in time. In fact, the general relativity theory says that while you to an observer may be travelling faster than light, you yourself are actually still moving slower than light, and therefore still moving forwards in time, although the passage of time relative to you has slowed down greatly.
Thus, if you make a jump 5 LY there and back, your boss may have already fired you for absenteeism, while you're convinced that last week's Friday night binge-drinking session isn't due to start for three hours.
I think that's about the sum of it... 
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CodeFreeze
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vendora
If you had a new-born child when you left the first time and completed 7 return journeys then on your last return your 'child' would be 70.
It's the other way around! Jumping takes you back in time so on your seventh return you would arrive 70 years before your child was born and could set up a nice savings account for them which should be worth a few mill by the time they're born 
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:50:00 -
[10]
Light years is a distance, no time frame. Your consumptions may be right if you'd travel this distance in a conventional way not using measures that actually bend space like wormholes, since then relativity and such comes into action.
Wormholes create "shortcuts" by bending space, not time. The time is actually the same at entry and exit of the wormhole.
At a given moment the time is the same here and 5 light years away, that is talking from same space and not something interdimensional or whatever.
The point is: if your telescope in system A would be good enough, you could see yourself jumping into System B around five years later through the telescope, and that's only because the light carrying that picture needs 5 years to travel the distance. No timeshifting myths here at all.
No way to time travel and such stuff through use of Wormholes (in my understanding). When warping that might be different, but it needs to be late night before I can start thinking on relativity issues like those.
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Armin Chamberlain
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:51:00 -
[11]
Ok this makes really no sense at all! You won't travel back in time or forward, you travel to the planet! Just like Carino said. |
Vendora
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: CodeFreeze
Originally by: Harcole
not to flame or anything, but you don't travel back in time... its all to do with that Albert bloke...
Excuse me... but a stargate jumps you instantly to a different system. Surely you know that solar systems are light years apart? If you accept the possibility of stargates, you have to accept time travel!
Well if its instant where does the 5years you are talking about go?
Do you mean that the jump for you is instant but the 'outside' moves on 5 years? If so that is relativity and neither end of the stargate will stay still whilst you travel.
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CodeFreeze
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Posted - 2004.05.14 11:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lufio II
Light years is a distance, no time frame. Your consumptions may be right if you'd travel this distance in a conventional way not using measures that actually bend space like wormholes, since then relativity and such comes into action.
Wrong wrong wrong!
I observe the light of the star as it was when it was shining 5 years ago, since the light has taken 5 years to reach where I am now.
Now lets say I jump to the star with my megathron and blow the star up with my death star ray. Observers in the system I just departed would see the light from the star extinguished just after I had left that system and blown it up. However, remember that event occured 5 years before, since that was how long it took the light to travel to that system.
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Bosie
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:00:00 -
[14]
/emote hands CodeFreeze a large pot of very strong coffe
Bosie.
http://bosie.proboards40.com/
http://zeroimpact.co.uk/evemap
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CodeFreeze
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:04:00 -
[15]
Edited by: CodeFreeze on 14/05/2004 12:11:52
lol lets try something else to get you to understand.
I buy a very powerful red laser. I then jump to a system 100 light years away, jettison the laser in the system pointing the laser at the system I had just left, 100 light years away.
Observers at the original system would instantly see a very bright red light shining from that system.
But that system is 100 light years away, so the red light has taken exactly 100 years to reach me where I am now.
Therefore they are observing a red light that was shining 100 years ago.
Yes/No?
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:04:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Lufio II on 14/05/2004 12:07:29
Originally by: CodeFreeze
I observe the light of the star as it was when it was shining 5 years ago, since the light has taken 5 years to reach where I am now.
exactly what I'm saying, that's because light usually doesn't use the advantages of wormholes and travels all the 5 light years of DISTANCE the conventional way in a straight line (compare: one light second is a distance of approx. 300000 km).
Originally by: CodeFreeze
Now lets say I jump to the star with my megathron and blow the star up with my death star ray. Observers in the system I just departed would see the light from the star extinguished just after I had left that system and blown it up. However, remember that event occured 5 years before, since that was how long it took the light to travel to that system.
well, this isn't true, the observers would actually see that event 5 years later than it actually happened(there's a small but major difference here). A supernova of a system 3 light years away you can see now has actually happened 3 years ago. If you'd now jump into that system immediately when you see the nova at home, you would enter a system that died 3 years ago, with nothing left in it beside maybe a black hole or whatever is left after the nova.
Edit: forgot a word
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Chimera Ur
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:10:00 -
[17]
No. Since you simply don't do timetravel because you are not traveling at FTL speeds.
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CodeFreeze
Edited by: CodeFreeze on 14/05/2004 12:06:24
lol lets try something else to get you to understand.
I buy a very powerful red laser. I then jump to a system 100 light years away, jettison the laser in the system pointing the laser at the system I had just left, 100 light years away.
I then jump back to the original system.
I would instantly see a very bright red light shining from that system.
...
No, you would see that red bright light 100 years after you actually jumped back, because
Originally by: CodeFreeze
... that system is 100 light years away, so the red light has taken exactly 100 years to reach me where I am now.
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Andarvi
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:12:00 -
[19]
No.
You jump 100 LY.
You set the laser.
You jump 100 LY back.
You wait patiently for 100 years for the red light to get to you.
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CodeFreeze
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lufio II
No, you would see that red bright light 100 years after you actually jumped back
See my edited post. It corrects for that
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:12:00 -
[21]
No
jumpgate is a shortcut between systems, u don`t travel trough time, u just take a shortcut
A -> B
normal travel say 100LY
jumpgate(shortcut) 10sec(enter-exit)
place a beam at a star 100LY away, jump/warp back 100LY and u won`t see the light(unless it`s coded by ccp as light can`t bend space on it`s own(warp)
Everlasting Vendetta - Search |
CodeFreeze
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Chimera Ur
No. Since you simply don't do timetravel because you are not traveling at FTL speeds.
How can you arrive at a system 5 lightyears away instantly without travelling faster than light? Light takes 5 years to travel a distance you have just instantly made. That's FTL to me!
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CodeFreeze
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:14:00 -
[23]
Edited by: CodeFreeze on 14/05/2004 12:16:46
Originally by: Andarvi
No.
You jump 100 LY.
You set the laser.
You jump 100 LY back.
You wait patiently for 100 years for the red light to get to you.
See my edited post. Once more:
I buy a very powerful red laser. I then jump to a system 100 light years away, jettison the laser in the system pointing the laser at the system I had just left, 100 light years away.
Observers at the original system would instantly (relative to my time-frame) see a very bright red light shining from that system.
But that system is 100 light years away, so the red light has taken exactly 100 years to reach me where I am now.
Therefore they are observing a red light that was shining 100 years ago.
Yes/No?
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:14:00 -
[24]
According to Einstein's THEORY of Relativity, you can accelerate in time by going faster than light. It should also be noted that since Einstein's theory was put forth, advances in quantum technology have caused people to start wondering about the validity of Einstein's theory.
You can't jump "back" in time, no matter how often you turn around and jump. The direction is moot, and the velocity is all that matters.
As for the laser, yes. You'd go home and wait a hundred years.
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:14:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Tenashi on 14/05/2004 12:15:45
better said that u bend space by an extremely larg gravimatric field of some sort
Everlasting Vendetta - Search |
Tenashi
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: CodeFreeze
Originally by: Andarvi
No.
You jump 100 LY.
You set the laser.
You jump 100 LY back.
You wait patiently for 100 years for the red light to get to you.
See my edited post. Once more:
I buy a very powerful red laser. I then jump to a system 100 light years away, jettison the laser in the system pointing the laser at the system I had just left, 100 light years away.
Observers at the original system would instantly see a very bright red light shining from that system.
But that system is 100 light years away, so the red light has taken exactly 100 years to reach me where I am now.
Therefore they are observing a red light that was shining 100 years ago.
Yes/No?
no, they won`t.
they`ll have to wait 100 years and it better be a damn powerfull laser
Everlasting Vendetta - Search |
Xeis
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:17:00 -
[27]
Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity states that motion and time are, in fact, related.
Short version: here
Basically, the faster you go through space (the limit supposedly being the speed of light), the slower you move through time. It is hypothesized that going faster than light would actually take you backward in time.
I had a link once with a better description and actual mathematical figures, but I can't seem to find it any longer.
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Chimera Ur
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CodeFreeze
How can you arrive at a system 5 lightyears away instantly without travelling faster than light? Light takes 5 years to travel a distance you have just instantly made. That's FTL to me!
Try reading some books before you post please. Wormholes are, like stated before, shortcuts. If you imagine space as a 2D sheet of paper, the shortest 'route' between 2 points is exactly 0 in length, you 'fold' the paper so the two points touch eachother. So yes, you have travelled a 'distance in a very short amount of time, but general relativity does not apply here because you simply cut a corner.
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Honey Babe
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:20:00 -
[29]
NO. You dont see the red light immediately when u jump back. You will see it 100 years from now.
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CodeFreeze
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tenashi
no, they won`t.
they`ll have to wait 100 years and it better be a damn powerfull laser
Right let's make this even clearer.
I share a beer with my buddy Joe. I then jump to that system 100 light years away and point the laser at the original system. Joe will see that light instantly, despite the fact that he had just been sharing a beer with me!
In fact I feel a bit guilty about Joe picking up the tab for the beer so I jump back the 100 light years and put 1 ISK in a savings account for Joe. Since I am now there 200 years before we shared the beer, 200 years later (at the time we are having the beer) Joe withdraws several million ISK from the account - beer paid for!
PS Einstein's theories don't apply because they cannot explain stargates
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