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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
Harold Tuphlos
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
1
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Posted - 2011.09.09 21:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:[quote=CCP Veritas]How will you get a big blob of lag on Sisi? Ive been in the last few mass tests and there has been some lag, but not that much. The sane plan is to add in thin clients. The insane plan is to allow time to go past 1x speed. I haven't decided which is better.
The insane plan is clearly better as it is more likely that bugs will show up when misusing TD, although a sane mass test would be good as well. So do both for better testing result and fewer post release bugs. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
32
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Posted - 2011.09.09 21:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:
The sane plan is to add in thin clients. The insane plan is to allow time to go past 1x speed.
I haven't decided which is better.
Could you add faster than 1x to TQ whenever I got to do a freighter run?
CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. |
Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
59
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Posted - 2011.09.09 22:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bullet time is going to completely ruin this game. Worse than anything else before it. |
Demon Azrakel
Defiant..
Narwhals Ate My Duck
16
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Posted - 2011.09.10 01:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:Bullet time is going to completely ruin this game. Worse than anything else before it.
Because being black screened for eight hours is p. awesome... |
Trainwreck McGee
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.09.10 01:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
We already look like rejects from the Matrix so why the hell not |
Vin Hellsing
51
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Posted - 2011.09.10 01:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:[quote=CCP Veritas]How will you get a big blob of lag on Sisi? Ive been in the last few mass tests and there has been some lag, but not that much. The sane plan is to add in thin clients. The insane plan is to allow time to go past 1x speed. I haven't decided which is better.
I prefer insane plans over sane plans. Go balls-out, my friend. At the worst, it'll melt down the cluster. At the best, you'll be turning heads. |
Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2011.09.10 01:47:00 -
[37] - Quote
Let the blob be born and let it lag the test server to hell to make for a good test. |
inexistin
Rubbish and Garbage Removal
Atlas.
2
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Posted - 2011.09.10 09:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:To say what Tippia said in different words...
Most of the things we talk about when we talk about "fixing fleet lag" have to do with increasing the capacity of these fights, that is, the number of players it takes to make the server start exhibiting "lag". Team Gridlock has been at that for over a year now, and have delivered very good results.
Time Dilation does not increase capacity at all. These days we handle about 1000 players (more or less depending on the type of activity being done) before lag starts kicking in. The day after we ship Time Dilation, it'll be exactly the same. The difference is what happens *after* that threshold is passed. Instead of the effects we all know and hate, it'll simply slow the game down until able to cope with the load.
After we ship, we plan to go back to work increasing capacity. These things are not mutually-exclusive. Rather, they're quite complementary.
So, the way I see it, you guys consider that there are two situations: the ones when the server can handle the load and the ones when it can't. Up until now, you've been focused on the first type, so as to make it more common than the later (by increasing server capacity, by optimizing stuff, etc). Now you want to focus on the second type of situations so that no matter what happens, **** doesn't hit the fan without you knowing how it will hit. In this case, I fully endorse this project.
Or am I missing something? |
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CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
49
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Posted - 2011.09.10 10:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Happy to have your endorsement, inexistin ;) |
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Antaeus Fantasy
Rebel Attack Fleet
Adeptus Arbites
0
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Posted - 2011.09.10 10:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
There are some people stating that it is going to ruin the game. But i havent seen any explanations why.
How can it ruin the game ?
Black screen for 6 hours ? Well that is exatly what is NOT going to happen if time dialation works.
Actualy the fleet battles are going to be even faster that way. No time loss on people trying to find next target during lag and switching to needed target much faster. Yea it happens in slow motion but results in lowering the time spent in slow motion.
So... Why is it going to ruin the game ? |
Lisa Valenheim
Toxic Munitions
1
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Posted - 2011.09.10 12:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
A prob with time dilation I can think of, is that if it's applied to one or two systems, with outside systems remaining unaffected, is that does it affect reshipping?
Eg some1 gets killed jumps out, runs 10 jumps to reship, and comes back within a couple of module timers? So to the ppl in the time dilated system it seems that some1 dies and almost magically reappears in a new ship. Combined with the slowdown of time, will it create endless battles? |
Nick Arnst
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.09.10 12:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
it will ruin the game because im usually not affected by the lag.
/troll mode |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
9
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Posted - 2011.09.10 12:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lisa Valenheim wrote:Combined with the slowdown of time, will it create endless battles?
I don't see anything bad in this. "Endless" means until you run out of ships, how many times would you return? And more exploding spaceships is definitely a good thing.
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Lisa Valenheim
Toxic Munitions
1
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Posted - 2011.09.10 12:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:Lisa Valenheim wrote:Combined with the slowdown of time, will it create endless battles? I don't see anything bad in this. "Endless" means until you run out of ships, how many times would you return? And more exploding spaceships is definitely a good thing.
Maybe it's just me, but a 48 hour battle with everything running at 1/4 speed doesnt sound like fun, just a competition to see who doesnt quit from boredom 1st. |
Koby Botick
Eighty Joule Brewery
Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.09.10 12:51:00 -
[45] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:[quote=CCP Veritas]Why are you wasting resources fixing lag when you should be fixing lag ffs?
"Fixing lag" indiscriminantly is impossible. Fixing lag for 1000 players in one system may be possible.
The reason this is a serious and depending on some factors impossible to solve problem lies in the information theoritcal domain. The problem, extremely simplified is this: If you have 100 ships in one space and one ship of those houndred performs an action, you have to communicate this action to 100 clients (99 others and to the one initiating the action so the client knows it's done ok). Imagine that's sending 100 messages or 100 letters to everyone for that single action. Now if not 1 ship does something but everyone does something, that's already 100 times 100 messages to send. This communication problem is an n^2 (n - squared) problem.
For people with knowledge in performance optimization in software everything is clear at this point, for all others: n^2 means that the more people you have there, the faster the amount of communication grows, and it grows quadratically. The main problem is you can only add more hardware or better hardware linearly. If instead of one big server, you put in two or four big servers to handle the problem, you only help a bit, since the problem increase outgrows the processing power you add. Because the problem grows quadratically, while your solution can only grow linearly (at best). Worse, the more you add the less increase you get.
This is a core information theoretical problem that is impossible to solve. The trick is to be handle practical limits fine and mitigate the odd outliers. Which is precisely what CCP is doing at the moment. Note that improvements until lag appears can be done, because that depends on a lot of factors that are controllable, including the efficency of the software handling the issue, however there is simply a limit on how much you can do and at some numbers you can't do anything at all, since you reached the limit where the quadratic growth of the problem just takes off and goes through the roof. |
Cybele Lanier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.09.10 12:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lisa Valenheim wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but a 48 hour battle with everything running at 1/4 speed doesnt sound like fun, just a competition to see who doesnt quit from boredom 1st.
Rather than staring at a black screen for an hour and perodically checking killboards out-of-game to see if you're dead yet?
Here's the universal response to every complaint about TD: How on earth could it possibly be worse than what we have now? It's very telling that none of the objectors have actually said they like the current system because nobody does.  |
Lisa Valenheim
Toxic Munitions
1
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Posted - 2011.09.10 12:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cybele Lanier wrote:Lisa Valenheim wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but a 48 hour battle with everything running at 1/4 speed doesnt sound like fun, just a competition to see who doesnt quit from boredom 1st.
Rather than staring at a black screen for an hour and perodically checking killboards out-of-game to see if you're dead yet? Here's the universal response to every complaint about TD: How on earth could it possibly be worse than what we have now? It's very telling that none of the objectors have actually said they like the current system because nobody does.
True :) Maybe this is a no-win situation without game changing sov mechanics, *surrenders* |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
9
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Posted - 2011.09.10 13:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lisa Valenheim wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but a 48 hour battle with everything running at 1/4 speed doesnt sound like fun, just a competition to see who doesnt quit from boredom 1st.
Sooner or later people will quit the battle because they are bored or out of ships or have to mow the lawn or get wife agro, numbers will decrease and the delay factor will go to normal. So i think it's really just you. |
Ashalin Tora
Single Sun
0
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Posted - 2011.09.10 13:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
I won't lie, this is pretty awesome.
Would the time dilation be effective only in the grid where the big fight takes place or is it system wide? And if not the latter, how would this look to an distant observer, perhaps monitoring the situation with probes and by scanning? |
Lisa Valenheim
Toxic Munitions
1
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Posted - 2011.09.10 13:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:Lisa Valenheim wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but a 48 hour battle with everything running at 1/4 speed doesnt sound like fun, just a competition to see who doesnt quit from boredom 1st.
Sooner or later people will quit the battle because they are bored or out of ships or have to mow the lawn or get wife agro, numbers will decrease and the delay factor will go to normal. So i think it's really just you.
You're prob right, I'm just the type who likes proper fixes rather than workarounds. *Edit* though to be fair props to the devs for implementing this, it may not be perfect, but like has been said b4, is prob the best solution at the moment to an ugly problem with no simple answer. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
6
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Posted - 2011.09.10 13:58:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ashalin Tora wrote:I won't lie, this is pretty awesome.
Would the time dilation be effective only in the grid where the big fight takes place or is it system wide? And if not the latter, how would this look to an distant observer, perhaps monitoring the situation with probes and by scanning?
The whole system will be dilated, including warping or scanning itself. |
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Abrazzar
88
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Posted - 2011.09.10 14:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Ashalin Tora wrote:I won't lie, this is pretty awesome.
Would the time dilation be effective only in the grid where the big fight takes place or is it system wide? And if not the latter, how would this look to an distant observer, perhaps monitoring the situation with probes and by scanning? The whole system will be dilated, including warping or scanning itself.
Will the station environment be dilated, too? And the connected WiS?
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
divanoo
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.09.10 14:23:00 -
[53] - Quote
Now we just need space worth fighting for |
Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate
167
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Posted - 2011.09.10 14:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:How will you get a big blob of lag on Sisi? Ive been in the last few mass tests and there has been some lag, but not that much. The sane plan is to add in thin clients. The insane plan is to allow time to go past 1x speed. I haven't decided which is better.
When in doubt, bend time. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
6
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Posted - 2011.09.10 14:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:
Will the station environment be dilated, too? And the connected WiS?
The station environment will be not dilated and there will be also a few parts of the in-space environment which will not be dilated like reinforcement timers. Planetary interaction for example will also not be dilated.
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CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
49
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Posted - 2011.09.10 14:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Will the station environment be dilated, too? And the connected WiS?
Walking of any variety won't be dilated in the first deployment. It may stay that way, it may not, I don't know at this point.
There may be elements of the station environment that we dilate in order to convey to the player what's going on back in space. |
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
11
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Posted - 2011.09.10 14:40:00 -
[57] - Quote
Lisa Valenheim wrote: Combined with the slowdown of time, will it create endless battles?
People will actually die a lot faster with gun cycling slower but cycling, than with guns cycling every 10 minutes.
Why do yo all assume the server will be at 1% speed when it's more likely it will be at 80% speed? (and going faster with each ship dying) |
J0HN RAMB0
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.10 14:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
I guess time dilation will be a huge nerf for Titans and SCs as they profit from lag usually.
Will time dilation affect aggression timers and log-off-despawn timers? |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
3
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Posted - 2011.09.10 15:07:00 -
[59] - Quote
Time Dilation = slow down processes because current hardware is having issues dealing with the amount of ships on grid (call to processors)
if this is true then the opposite must be possible.
increase the amount of hardware on the cluster, dedicate more nodes to less ships.
this is all about Load Balancing.
spend more cash CCP |
Le Sabre
The Dead Canary Mining Corporation
Legion of Honor
1
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Posted - 2011.09.10 15:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
I seriously hope CCP implements this with care, it could be the best thing for null in a while or the worst thing.
Just recently, everytime a patch pops along it seems to remind me of the 'Sloth' from the film 'Goonies', patch is released and it stands up and shouts in his voice : "HAI YU GAIS!!!! AHA HUHUHUHU", many facepalms obviously follow.
So even though it is a workaround rather than a fix, will be nice to see big fights without the lagfest, could even fraps/record big battles, use editing and speed it up back to normal speed to watch in 'normal' speed.  |
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