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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 07:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ammoina on 22/06/2008 07:19:41
 Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt
CCP said that they didn't allow alliances to join FW to stop them from just taking it over - but isn't that just what we are seeing here?
No. The Alliances are coming in and fighting over the moons. They're not coming in to fight the factional warfare war. They're fighting their own war. Likewise the Alliances are also coming to black-rise to pirate and to fight the targets that present themselves. Just like they do elsewhere in low-sec and 0.0. Being in a militia doesn't make you immune to that.
So no, the Alliances are not joining FW and taking it over. And no, CCP should not step in and stop what is currently occurring.
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:17:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt
Was more thinking about this bit below - unless there was something not reported like an aggressive act by the FW fleet
Its low-sec. There doesn't need to be one. Besides, the FW fleets are made up of random individuals not operating under any kind of code of conduct or rules of engagement. They should all be considered targets to be fired upon immediately.
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Originally by: Nick Faulkner
A large Executive Outcomes (EXE) fleet jumps in with a few capitals. Numbers of locals increase to 200 and we started getting lagged. A very organized EXE fleet massacres the unorganized FW fleet at the gate in Tama.
Originally by: Ammoina
Likewise the Alliances are also coming to black-rise to pirate and to fight the targets that present themselves. Just like they do elsewhere in low-sec and 0.0. Being in a militia doesn't make you immune to that.
I think my response handled it nicely. Next you're going to tell me that Star Fraction shouldn't be allowed to rain on the FW parade either? 
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True but isn't that just what CCP didn't want?
Otherwise I can't see why they would not allow alliances to join up - if they are using captials vs FW fleets (again the report doesn't say what started it so we don't know why) anyway, then just let them join up like anyone else.
Why join up? Why not just shoot all the militias? Joining FW means picking a side and fighting for that side. Setting up shop in Black-Rise and pirating on the Militias just means exactly that. It means you're not 'in FW', you're just killing targets.
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Remember the intention was to encourage a greater population into PvP by giving them a lowsec war but with a highsec base - they can do that if they fight their war targets but will take too much of a security hit if they have to mass fleet fight "neutrals" that most likely don't care too much for sec rateing anyhow.
Um. How does an alliance shooting you up deprive you of a hi-sec base or a low-sec war? As far as the sec status thing, if someone shoots your militia mates you should be able to return fire on the offending corporation without getting a negative sec hit. I don't know how it currently works, but that is how it should work. In fact I'd imagine it doesn't work like that at the moment. But it should.
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A couple of ways to limit this could be to increase standing hits for neutrals attacking FW (govts don't like independants interfering with their forces or for faction ceo's (ie CCP) to declare war on the alliance involved - faction captials guarding hisec anyone lol.
Would just make for dead faction capitals. Regardless Concord manages sec status, and they don't have any extra special concern if you shoot up militias. In fact from a rp perspective I'd almost suspect that they'd encourage it. The militias are a threat to their power, role and in fact their existence shows the decreasing effectiveness of Concord.
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:29:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt
Whats the stats 80-90% of Eve do not pvp?
And you grabbed that stat from where? Your ass? 
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:04:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt
It's a question mark - see the ? - I saw a dev post somewhere about proportion of people living in 0.0 and low sec vs high sec - couldn't remember the proportion but it was high enough to make me remember it - hence the ? as in ..."80-90 is it?'
Right so, your ass then. Said 'dev post' (and econ blog) talked about characters, not players. 4 of my 6 characters live in hi-sec. 1 of the 6 goes between hi, low and 0.0 and the last lives only in low and 0.0 (mmmmmm -10 goodnes). I guess according to that survey of six characters 66% of people don't engage in pvp right?
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Havohej
Because everybody has 6 accounts.
Aren't you just the cutest little thing... there are 3 characters per account. Your typical low-sec/0.0 person has all three character slots turned on and running. Either as cyno alts, scout alts, market alts, spys, *insert purpose* and they normally reside in hi-sec. Where-ever the main happens to be. These numbers have been crunched before. I'll let you try and figure out how to crunch them for yourself. Suffice to say it doesn't matter since there are those who live in hi-sec and do plenty of PVP.
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt
Well CCP think otherwise and the history of the game shows otherwise (notice no stats) - but it's true that most players live hi sec yes? (or maybe not)
Its a majority. But its not near 90%. I honestly don't remember and its probably changed somewhat since the last econ report. Figure 60% is closer to the truth.
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Havohej
And when most people mention how many characters they have, they're not talking about minimally trained utility alts
Thats part of your problem. The Econ Report is talking about characters. Not players. Not accounts. Specifically they're talking about all those non-trained/minimally trained trade alts sitting in market hubs that do nothing but log in once a week to check prices for some transaction between two corp mates in 0.0 somewhere in order to make sure no one is getting cheated.
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt
Econ again "During the last two weeks of Q4, a total of 6.85 million visits were made to solar systems by 252,000 characters. This means
that about 210,000 characters stayed within the same system or were not accessed during this time. The characters that are not
accessed or do not move between systems are most likely alternate characters for subscribers. We therefore assume that these jumps
show us the movement of main characters on each subscription account and are therefore representative for the movement of the main population in EVE."
So even CCP don't actually know 
Basically yeah they don't. What that does tell you is that the straight character percentage numbers don't tell you even close to the real story (ie, the 9%, 13% and 76%). By making some simple assumptions you can construct a probable distribution of accounts, but its just that assumptions. And those assumptions would involve more than just jumps made.
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Roguehalo
It's very simple
FW is consensual........we signed up for it
Any time we like we can resign
And um, by going into low-sec and putting yourself at risk by being blow up by *insert random pirate gang with better ships and organization than you* is now A-OK because you joined a NPC Militia corp full of random people instead of the NPC noob corp or a care-bear corp or etc... ?
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
What are these alliances doing there to begin with, is there nothing better to do in 0.0?
Just spreading the love around 
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