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Dennis Nedry
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:07:00 -
[1]
So really how good are they?
I'm training for Amarr ones atm, and I'm the type of player who prefers to fill a support role than pure firepower. I like people to want me in their gang because of the different things I can bring.
I have a few questions however about the Damnations and other fleet command ships.
How effective do the modules become?
I've seen a few skills, and i know the ship improves them, but lets say I have all possible maxed skills to improve my Armored warfare modules then I put on the appropriate Mods on my damnation..
How much % does the passive module gain in reisstances?
And how fast does the repairing become on the repair module ?
Also, ive been playing around with Absolution in EFT and it seems that I can quite easily hit 700 dps with a tank not to be sniffed at which seems quite nice. Any people who can give pointers, opinions or what not on Command ships from personal experience preferably, but speculation can be useful to a certain extent too :) thank you !
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Nexus Kinnon
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:37:00 -
[2]
They're fun ships, and the absolution is one of the best, but really a BS is more useful nine times out of ten while being far cheaper.
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Gneeznow
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:50:00 -
[3]
The one thing you will find when flying an abso in reality it is too bloody slow and turns like a brick, It feels as agile as a plated battleship when flying it, which means you are going to get ganked a lot flying it, better off with a geddon or harbinger if you want bang for your buck, but if you want bling bling then the abso is cool.
As for the damnation bonus's I think its around 30% bonus to armour and rep with a mindlink and armoured warfare + warfare spec @ 5 but I'm not certain.
protip: train minmatar cruiser 5 and fly the awesome sleipnir and claymore \o/
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TrulyKosh
Solo for UNCLE
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:51:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Dennis Nedry
So really how good are they?
I'm training for Amarr ones atm, and I'm the type of player who prefers to fill a support role than pure firepower. I like people to want me in their gang because of the different things I can bring.
I have a few questions however about the Damnations and other fleet command ships.
How effective do the modules become?
How much % does the passive module gain in reisstances?
And how fast does the repairing become on the repair module ?
The answer to all these (and related questions to other command mods) is 28.75% :)
That is, what max. skills (command ship V, warfare link specialist V, armored warfare V and armored warfare spec V + the armored warfare mindlink, which requires cybernetics V), the maximum achievable bonus with a damnation is 28.75% to all armor resists, -28.75% repairer cycle duration and -28.75% repair modules capacitor need). You could ofc use e.g. siege warfare links, but the max. bonus (without the bonus of the damnation) for these would be 22.5%.
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AstroPhobic
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:55:00 -
[5]
They're kinda underwhelming. Take a lot of training, but not quite as drastic change as cruiser --> HAC. They're expensive toys for the most part, and to put them into usage, it often requires a gang link. Not that sick tanks aren't great every once and a while (complexes... bait damnation anyone?), but they're kinda limited.
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Dennis Nedry
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Posted - 2008.06.22 19:33:00 -
[6]
i kinda dislike geddons tho :(
only bs im willing to fly is a nightmare
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Diomidis
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.22 20:21:00 -
[7]
CM's are gang ships - in fact those are LARGE gang ships. The biggest the gang, the greater the effect.
Do not think of their gank or tank capabilities considering them as front-line fighters, unless you want to bring a Sleip in a 10-20 man nano-gang, or an Abso for the relevant tanking one...
Fitting them for missions etc (like multiple threads talk about), is a huge waste IMHO...train up for BSs for that...
Join the Biggest Greek Corp!
www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.22 20:29:00 -
[8]
Fleet commands, do wonderful things. Gang bonuses are a useful boost all around.
Of these, the Shield and Armour are better in smaller gangs, and of course, benefit from meshing your tank styles.
Skirmish Warfare is glorious on a nanogang. All the gang assist modules are valuable to bring along in a large fleet too.
Information warfare is also pretty awesome. All 3 links are directly relevant to most sizes of gangs.
The field commands are also pretty nice, although as mentioned they're not quite as much as step up as cruiser -> HAC. Farily nice PvP ships, but have a price tag attached. Apart from the nighthawk, which doesn't have enough grid to go PvPing in, but is an awesome PvE ship.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Corstaad
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.22 20:31:00 -
[9]
My orginal goal was minny CS but after abit of thought I'll wait. The ships are tanky BC with BC limitations. Your missing out on BS cap,BS fitting ie neuts,and BS costs. I believe they have a role but its after you have a decent T2 fitted BS.
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Tyrael Primus
The Commissum
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Posted - 2008.06.22 21:56:00 -
[10]
The resists on a Damnation can get very high - in the 85-90% range with active hardners. I survived a tough gatecamp by trudging back to the gate for 10km and my tank held against 10 assorted frigs and a few cruisers - so that last 5% in resists really counts. Unforunately, you need an FC who is willing to use your skills and I ended up selling my Damnation because I just never got to use it the way I wanted to.
I haven't used the Absolution but looking at the bonuses and number of turrets...it looks tasty. I'd probably stick to PvE or areas with good fleet movement intel so you can chose your PvP battles though; expensive toy.
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Mar vel
A.I.M.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 03:41:00 -
[11]
CS ships are designed explicitly for fleet warfare in specialty roles. Most everyone wants to turn them into pseudo-uber tank mobiles - stacked tank/gank setups. I assure you they die quite quickly to BS's, NOS/NEU, Webbers and concentrated firepower....and they're like driving in mollasses - friggin huge with the turn radius of 1970 Cadillac.
Notable exception: Slep /Claymore, which are the most versatile and potent of the bunch. Nothing says I luv you like 7x 720 arties. Alpha strike up the pie-hole - and for the bold and beautiful, the arty/nos/ml variants are equally tough.
(I fly all the CS's, btw)
The most interesting applicaiton I have seen for CS's (which we don't see much of) is for the Fleet variants to be setup as Logistics ships in addition to having 3x command modules. True fleet setup though.
CS's are designed to be paired with logistics ships. Unfortunately no one really likes flying passive ships like Logs. Kind of like being the Company medic. You don't get on KM's and KB's by being in your Log ship. Sad really. probably the most potent pairing available that allows CS's to go all-weapons or log-style and not worry about getting primaried out of the gate.
For almost every other application (other than fleet)- a Tier II BC will outperform at 1/3 of the cost and is fully insurable.
If you're not comitted to training the associated skills, the stick with the Tier-II BC. /mar
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Spenz
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.06.23 05:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mar vel
CS ships are designed explicitly for fleet warfare in specialty roles. Most everyone wants to turn them into pseudo-uber tank mobiles - stacked tank/gank setups. I assure you they die quite quickly to BS's, NOS/NEU, Webbers and concentrated firepower....and they're like driving in mollasses - friggin huge with the turn radius of 1970 Cadillac.
Well the damnation is an exception. You can get an absolutely MASSIVE HP tank with those things, probably the best sub-capital tank you can get (if you make yourself an ubermax officer-tanked, armor warfare w/ mind-link, lvl 5 command ship, and slaves, you can push upwards of around 850k effective HP  ). Of course, not everyone can afford the officer tank, but the regular T2 buffer-tank setup can take more damage than most battleships with the same setup, and with faction it gets even better.
Field Command ships are pretty good for their price, but still very expensive considering that you can usually get the same results with something far cheaper. Overall it is the fleet command ships that have the most purposeful application, and a good fleet command ship in charge of gang bonuses can turn the tide of a battle.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.06.23 10:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mar vel
CS's are designed to be paired with logistics ships. Unfortunately no one really likes flying passive ships like Logs. Kind of like being the Company medic. You don't get on KM's and KB's by being in your Log ship.
To me the biggest issue with Logistics ships is the simple fact that like a medic they have a BIG crosshair that screams "Shoot me first!" painted on them.
My basklisk only sees service on the rare occasions that my corp goes into harder complexes.
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adriaans
Ascendant Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.06.23 11:57:00 -
[14]
they're good if you know HOW and WHEN to use them, they're sadly too expensive to be used all the time (for me at least)
-sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
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Posted - 2008.06.23 14:47:00 -
[15]
|- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -| <- That good...
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Amarr - getting screwed since 2005. |
Blitza Ling
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.23 14:59:00 -
[16]
As someone trained to fly an Astarte and a Megathron I can honestly say I would rather fly a Megathron (or Domi, or Hyperion) in all situations. I can faction fit my Astarte and specialize skills for it but I will still be short of the damage I can reach with a Megathron. In a gang it is fun to roll around in a command ship but you'll find yourself being called primary often if you're in a glass cannon like an Astarte or Absolution(relative to the tank of a Hyperion or Abaddon).
I also am a few power grid short of being able to fit a tank and full rack of 250 IIs on my Astarte, which haunts me to no end.
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Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2008.06.24 22:14:00 -
[17]
You don't have to be on the same grid to give a bonus through a command ship (or any ship that can run the warfare mods). Just be in the same system in space and the bonus applies.
Why put the command ship in danger on the battlefield while it can do the same job from a safespot?
Granted, no extra firepower and it's boring as hell but as a second account, it must be fun to have it around.
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Kivin San
Damage Unlimited Inc
INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.06.24 22:18:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kivin San on 24/06/2008 22:20:01
First off, you really need to learn how to ask objective questions. Your post is very open ended with no real answer. "How good are they?" I guarantee you that everyone that reads your post is going to interpret this differently, and have different feelings about the answer.
Secondly, you took the time to key an Absolution into EFT, but you're too lazy to drop gang links onto it to see what kind of bonuses they offer? Give me a break...
Originally by: Madla Mafia
|- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -| <- That good...
Exactly.
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.06.24 22:45:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Malcanis on 24/06/2008 22:47:43
Originally by: Agor Dirdonen
You don't have to be on the same grid to give a bonus through a command ship (or any ship that can run the warfare mods). Just be in the same system in space and the bonus applies.
Why put the command ship in danger on the battlefield while it can do the same job from a safespot?
Granted, no extra firepower and it's boring as hell but as a second account, it must be fun to have it around.
Yeah it's pretty nice. 
My alt just skilled for the 4th combat mindlink today. 11.6M SP in Leadership skills... that took some time. The standard small gang/support wing loadout I usually use is
(Skirmish Mindlink: +15% base speed, +10% armour, +10% shield, +10% targeting range)
Gang Links: Interdiction (+37% web/scram), Rapid Deployment(+37% MWD boost), Passive Defence (+15% armour resists), Shield Harmonisation (+15% shield resists), Sensor Integrity (+22.5% sensor strength), Recon Operation (+15% EW optimal range). [3x Command Processors.]
That gives quite a nice boost to a T2 Frigate/Cruiser gang. It turns a cheap T2 fitted inty/hac into something that can compete on a level with the faction/deadspace fitted omgwtf nano ships. Take note, nanowhiners. Particularly take note of what the Interdiction module does.
Obviously if I wanted to bonus a battleship wing then I'd use an armour mindlink and ditch the Recon Ops link for the Rapid Repair.
PS It's funny how the falcon-whiners never mention that sensor integrity link. It really makes quite a difference on battleships (and recons - My falcon gets a sensor strength of 31 with that running in gang)
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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