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DubanFP Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.24 20:43:00 - [1] You guys say "ACs lose even more damage when fighting in falloff". I say "Blasters lose ALL damage when fighting in the AC's falloff". Really you can't compare faloff simply because ACs are the only close range weapons that really can fight at 20km without dropping to a weaker amo type like lasers. Also don't forget the rediculously low PG usage and the fact that Minmitar ships have a damage bonus built into their ships. Just about every minmitar ship gets a free Damage bonus. Even the non-damage ships like the stabber get free damage, and the damage ships get two bonuses. It does require more skills to make usage of it, but that seems to be the way minmitar is supposed to be. More skills, but in the end it pays off. The RoF bonus V alone gives a 33%+ damage which easily brings it up on par with the blasters, and the damage bonus matches it. A high-SP well fit Hurricane is ungodly in the right hands. The main problem with projectile weaponry is the artillery. Mainly that it relies on falloff and the nerfed alpha. The faloff doesn't even get affected by amo changes or tracking modules. So that just nerfs it's range. I'll make a new post on that in a bit. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
DubanFP Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.24 21:40:00 - [2] Edited by: DubanFP on 24/06/2008 21:41:00 To the people who are saying "you're wrong, the Thron gets more damage". Gun for gun, the tempest can match a thron. What you guys completely failed to notice is that the thron also gets an extra turret slot. Add an extra turret to the tempest and the alpha becomes rediculous with artillery, so that's not really an option. The guns itself is fine. The bigger problem is the guns matched with the ship. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
DubanFP Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.24 21:53:00 - [3] Originally by: AstroPhobic Care to compare vs. Maelstrom then? Maelstrom has an ROF bonus over the mega's straight damage bonus, plus an extra turret, but still fails to do more damage. BTW, 7(1.25) = 8.75 effective turrets for the mega (plus a tracking bonus) 6(1.33)(1.25) = 10 effective turrets for the tempest 8(1.33) = 10.66 effective turrets for the maelstrom Try again. The maelstrom isn't a damage ship anyways. It only gets 1 bonus. Does the thron get a tanking bonus? You're trying to compare the damage of apples and oranges. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
DubanFP Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.24 22:08:00 - [4] Edited by: DubanFP on 24/06/2008 22:09:55 Originally by: AstroPhobic You're trying to tell me that the maelstrom isn't a damage ship, when it has a 5% ROF bonus? But the megathron is. It only has a 5% damage bonus. I tried to compare the tempest and megathron for you, but turret for turret, it does less DPS too. With no spare tracking bonus, to boot. With a worse range. The stabber, the cyclone, and even the bellicose have a RoF bonus. Are you going to call them damage ships? Just like amarr ships have the built in capacitor bonus to match other ships, minmitar have a built in damage bonus to match other ships. It does suck that you really need level V skills to get the most out of your damage ships, but with it they really aren't that bad when you get down to it. Again i'm not going to doubt the tempest itself has a problem, it's just you really need to look at the guns matched with the ship. I'm saying the problem is the Tempest, NOT the projectiles themselves. The ship is the difference between a Hurricane "awesome ship" and an AC Tempest "admittedly lacking". _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
DubanFP Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.24 22:27:00 - [5] Edited by: DubanFP on 24/06/2008 22:28:35 Originally by: AstroPhobic Everyone tells me that the hurricane is a great ship, but after flying it several times in several ways, I just can't agree. Mediocre DPS mixed with mediocre speed and a mediocre tank, at best. That's another issue entirely. It requires a lot of skills, and good fittings. With my far from perfect skills I get just under 700 DPS out of my hurricane. I can up that to 780 DPS for a short period of time if I overload just the 6 guns "not worth the missiles". Yes, slightly smaller then a full gank brutix. However I would like to see a full gank brutix fit a 1600mm Plate, EANM, and damage control at the same time. For less then 40 mil after insurance is collected. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
DubanFP Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:56:00 - [6] Originally by: AstroPhobic The days of kiting megas are over. Overheated MWD and web brings an end to this mythical fight anyway. I dont mind a 25km range, but that should be our OPTIMAL, from there we can deal with falloff. Not deal with this constantly reduced damage. Which, lets face it, autos are obviously not meant to be used at 3km. Keep the damage a tiny bit below lasers and we have a deal. Not half. With rigs, cheap rigs at that, it's possible to get a BS sized AC to 45km Falloff. Don't know if it's practical but it would be funny to watch. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
DubanFP Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.25 01:03:00 - [7] Originally by: AstroPhobic I did this with a maelstrom. Went roaming solo (0.0... lol). After ****ing off a few ratters, I met a bait tempest at a gate. Knew he was bait, thought it would be funny anyway. Might get a ceptor or cruiser kill. Well, after switching to EMP and pounding on his shields for 20 seconds (950 or so DPS total), I got him to about 20% shields, then was jammed. Never truly got to try it out, but I have a feeling that it would have been disastrous as well. If you ever did it seriously you would need a friend/alt in a ceptor so he couldn't warp off. I'd just love to see that for the sake of seeing that. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR

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